Great Thread Niki! Interesting!
Great Thread Niki! Interesting!
Yes, totally agree.People today tend to judge people in the past by today's cultural standards.
That is impossible in regard to judgment because the culture of those days was totally different from today's cultural standards.
I am reading Lincoln right now it's very informative . Seems he wasn't a very good dad letting Tad and Willie run amuk, and ignoring Robert altogether. But he was a death hag, he insisted on disenturing willie twice so he could spend time with the corpse.
Renowned Death Hag
Yuck...Originally Posted by sunshine74137
On the other hand, maybe that was common in those days? I know that they used to prop up their dead children and pose for final pictures with them.
Renowned Death Hag
Shouldn't you give credit to Thomas DiLorenzo for this stuff? The way you have posted it makes it seem to be your own. Just asking.
Very well written Moonrabbit! I agree
Willie was the favorite. Yes, he was embalmed at least twice but I thought it was more for Mary Todd to spend time with him? Although Mary would not even attend Abe's funeral if I remember correctly....it was a hell of a long funeral as he was dragged through quite a few cities along the way. Well, maybe dragged isn't such a good word. He was embalmed so many times that when his casket was opened years later to view before being finally interred under cement, he still looked very good. Coloring had darken but his hair and beard....pretty much everything looked quite good. No trouble identifying him in the least. One little boy about 13 years old was called over to take a look. Amazing!
The special on the attempted kidnapping of his body was excellent.
It is going to be on this week as well. Here is the History Channel details.
http://www.history.com/shows.do?acti...isodeId=406320
Be sure and watch it if you have time. You won't be sorry you did. Some of the kidnapping details are rather slapstick. These guys could have given the Three Stooges a run for there money.
Last edited by Nicki; 02-19-2009 at 10:51 PM.
so true... that was quite a story on the history channel... Mary was just nutso that's why she never went to the funeral.
It's sad to me that he was buried under a pile of wood for over 10 years to avoid getting bodynapped. that's just sad but yes the body nappers could've given abbott and costello a run for thier money...
Did anyone know that it is documented that Abe was Bi-sexual? saw on the history channel that when Mary Todd was away he would have men over and they would sleep in the same bed. He used to let his lovers wear his pajama top to bed. It was said that one of his lovers was one of the first to be killed in the civil war and he was devastated.
Renowned Death Hag
I think his son Robert Todd Lincoln had a very interesting life.
This tells alot about Robert Todd Lincoln and his Wife and Children.
http://clevelandcivilwarroundtable.c...ince_rails.htm
Senior Death Hag
Abe Lincoln was an accomplished, well respected attorney before he ran for political office, something which isn't mentioned much in his biographies.
In Stephen Ambrose's book "Nothin Like It In the World: The Men Who Built The Railway That United America" he details a lot of the work that Lincoln did helping define laws that still govern transportation in the US. The cases he won in court were landmark cases at a time when rail transportation was new and no laws were on the books to govern ownership, rights of way, and regulation of trade between carriers and the decisions Lincoln won on behalf of the railroads he represented still stand today.
He was a friggin' brilliant attorney and still would be today if you put him in a courtroom. Just awesome. Amazing considering he had little formal education.
OCT. 29 - NOV. 4, 2004
L.A. WEEKLY NEWS
Was Abe Lincoln Gay?
If the loving heart of the Great Emancipator found its natural amorous passions overwhelmingly directed toward those of his own sex, it would certainly be a stunning rebuke to the Republican Party's scapegoating of same-sex love for electoral purposes. And a forthcoming book by the late Dr. C.A. Tripp -- The Intimate World of Abraham Lincoln, to be published in the new year by Free Press -- makes a powerful case that Lincoln was a lover of men.
Tripp, who worked closely in the 1940s and 1950s with the groundbreaking sexologist Alfred Kinsey, was a clinical psychologist, university professor and author of the 1975 best-seller The Homosexual Matrix, which helped transcend outdated Freudian clichés and establish that a same-sex affectional and sexual orientation is a normal and natural occurrence.
In his book on Lincoln, Tripp draws on his years with Kinsey, who, he wrote, "confronted the problem of classifying mixed sex patterns by devising his 0-to-6 scale, which allows the ranking of any homosexual component in a person's life from none to entirely homosexual. By this measure Lincoln qualifies as a classical 5 -- predominantly homosexual, but incidentally heterosexual."
Tripp also found, based on multiple historical accounts, that Lincoln attained puberty unusually early, by the age of 9 or 10 -- early sexualization being a prime Kinsey indicator for same-sex proclivities. Even Lincoln's stepmother admitted in a post-assassination interview that young Abe "never took much interest in the girls." And Tripp buttresses his findings that Lincoln was a same-sex lover with important new historical contributions.
Others, preceding Tripp, have proclaimed in print that Lincoln was gay. The first, some four decades ago, was the pioneer Los Angeles gay activist Jim Kepner, editor of ONE, the early gay magazine (the ONE Institute National Gay and Lesbian Archives at the University of Southern California [http://www.oneinstitute.org/] is the largest collection of gay historical material in the world). Kepnerfocused on Lincoln's long-acknowledged intimate friendship with Joshua Speed, with whom Lincoln slept in the same bed for four years when both men were in their 20s as did later writers, like the historian of gay America Jonathan Ned Katz and University of Massachusetts professor Charles Shively. Gore Vidal has said in interviews that, in researching his historical novel on Lincoln, he began to suspect that the 16th president was a same-sexer. But all this has been little noticed or circulated outside the gay community.
In 1990, the American Historical Association presented a panel on "Gay American Presidents? Washington, Buchanan, Lincoln, Garfield." Tripp was in the audience, and was seized with the desire to explore Lincoln's sexuality and emotional complexity with the same brand of scrupulous methodology he'd learned from Kinsey. Tripp devotedthe next decade to this research, and created an electronic databaseand index cross-referencing for more than 600 books of Lincolnalia, a historical tool now available at the Lincoln Institute in Springfield, Illinois.
One of the few traditional Lincolnists to describe (however obliquely) the lifelong Lincoln-Speed relationship as homosexual was the Illinois poet Carl Sandburg, in his masterful, six-volume Lincoln biography. In the tome titled The Prairie Years (1926), Sandburg wrote that both Lincoln and Speed had "a streak of lavender, and spots soft as May violets." "I do not feel my own sorrows more keenly than I do yours," Lincoln wrote Speed in one letter. And again, "You know my desire to befriend you is everlasting." In a detailed retelling of the Lincoln-Speed love story including the "lust at first sight" encounter between the two youngmen, when Lincoln readily accepted Speed's eager invitation to share his narrow bed. Tripp notes that Speed was the only human being to whom the president ever signed his letters with the unusually tender (for Lincoln) "yours forever" a salutation Lincoln never even used to his wife. Speed himself acknowledged that "No two men were ever so intimate." And Tripp credibly describes Lincoln's near nervous breakdown following Speed's decision to end their four-year affair by returning to his native Kentucky.
In the preface to his massive biography, Sandburg wrote that "month by month in stacks and bundles of facts and legend, I found invisible companionships that surprised me. Perhaps a few of these presences lurk and murmur in this book." Tripp's book is remarkable and precedent-shattering because, for the first time, he restores names and faces (more than just Speed's) to a number of those previously invisible homosexual companions and love objects of the mostvenerated of America's presidents, among them, Henry C. Whitney; the young Billy Greene, a Salem contemporary of Lincoln's and another bedmate (who admired Lincoln's thighs); Nat Grigsby; and A.Y. Ellis.
One of them was the handsome David Derickson, by nine years the president's junior, captain of Lincoln's bodyguard Company K, the unit assigned to ensure Lincoln's protection in September 1862. Citing a variety of sources including an autobiographical essay by Captain (later Major) Dickerson, Lincoln's letters, contemporary diaries and historical accounts written while many of the witnesses to the Derickson-Lincoln relationship were still living Tripp describes in great detail how Derickson was the object of "the kinds of gentle and concentrated high-focus attention from Lincoln that [Lincoln's law colleague] Henry C. Whitney, from having himself once been onthe receiving end, well described: '[It was] as if he wooed me to close intimacy and friendship, a kind of courtship, as indeed it was.'"
Lincoln's seduction of Dickerson was more than successful. Tripp discovered a forgotten volume of Union Army history, an account of The Pennsylvania Volunteers, Second Regiment, Bucktail Brigade, published in 1895 by Derickson's commander, Lieutenant Colonel Thomas Chamberlin, who was historian of the Bucktail Survivors Association, and in which he recounted:
"Captain Derickson, in particular, advanced so far in the President's confidence and esteem that in Mrs. Lincoln's absence he frequently spent the night at his cottage [at the summer White House], sleeping in the same bed with him, and it is said making use of his Excellency's night-shirt! Thus began an intimacy that continued unbroken until the following spring, when Captain Derickson was appointed provost marshal of the Nineteenth Pennsylvania District, with headquarters in Meadville."
The Dickerson-Lincoln affair was common gossip in Washington's high society, as Tripp notes with a citation from the diary of the wife of Assistant Navy Secretary Gustavus Fox: "Tish says, Oh, there is a Bucktail soldier here devoted to the president, drives with him, and when Mrs. L is not home, sleeps with him. What stuff!"
Lincoln was very fond of witty, and quite often ribald, stories, a great many of them having anal references. When a friend once suggested that he should collect his stories and publish them in book form, Lincoln replied that he could not, for "such a book would Stink like a thousand privies."
Another Tripp rediscovery is a smutty, humorous poem written by Lincoln when he was a teenager in which the future president describes a marriage between two boys! Here (with some of the spelling corrected for easier reading) is Lincoln's gay-marriage poem:
I will tell you a Joke about Jewel and Mary It is neither a Joke nor a StoryTripp notes that the stanza beginning "The egg it is laid" suggests that "Abe was well aware of the term 'jelly baby.' Originally from Negro vernacular, the phrase soon came to be used by whites as well: slang denoting what uneducated folk imagined . . . as a 'pregnancy' from homosexual intercourse . . . As a poem, Lincoln's rhyme of course is a mere trifle, except that it is perhaps the most explicit literary reference to actual homosexual relations in 19th-century America -- more explicit certainly than anything Walt Whitman ever wrote about the 'Love of comrades.'"
For Rubin and Charles has married two girls
But Billy has married a boy
The girlies he had tried on every Side
But none could he get to agree
All was in vain he went home again
And since that is married to Natty
So Billy and Natty agreed very well
And mama's well pleased at the match
The egg it is laid but Natty's afraid
The Shell is So Soft that it never will hatch
But Betsy she said you Cursed bald head
My Suitor you never Can be
Beside your low crotch [slang for big penis] proclaims you a botch
And that never Can serve for me
There is a great deal more to this book, which as Lincoln scholar Jean Baker notes in her admiring preface "is not a work of sexual or biological reductionism, but rather a significant effort to understand a complicated man." Among the many invaluable contributions is the chapter revealing that Lincoln's supposed tragic "romance" with Ann Rutledge often hyped by Hollywood retelling was a myth invented after Lincoln's death (this chapter is for the most part due to the research of Tripp's faithful collaborator on the Lincoln project, the writer Lewis Gannett, who edited the book for publication). Many of Tripp's findings come from finely argued circumstantial deductions which will no doubt be seized upon by what Vidal has called the "scholar squirrels" of the considerable Lincoln industry, who have a lot of skin in the game. But it will take more than their usual regurgitations of the cliché about the absence of central heating back in those days to explain Lincoln's consistent, yearslong choice of male bed partners, a same-sex affinity that he acted on even as president.
Tripp completed The Intimate World of Abraham Lincoln just two weeks before his own death. It is a tragedy that tawdry squabbles between the aging and irascible executor of Tripp's estate and his publisher prevented the book's publication before this year's elections (it is now due out, after yet another postponement, in March). That is why, when after assiduous and clandestine effort we managed to obtain a copy of the book's uncorrected proofs, we decided to break with book-chat conventions and, without authorization, make some of Tripp's findings public here before November 2.
In a year in which those who claim Lincoln as their political progenitor are trying to introduce a ban on recognition of same-sex love into the Constitution that Lincoln loved so much and defended so well (and also into the constitutions of 11 states through referendums), it seemed to me that the voters had an overriding right to know how, in doing so, the Republicans and their Christian-right allies are wounding the martyr-president squarely in his heart of hearts.
Loved your posts Sam
Thanks! I tried to include one of your post in it, but it kept telling me that my post was too long and I had to keep taking things out.
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Senior Death Hag
Well, now...THIS puts the 4th Doctor Who in an entirely different light!
Wow... thanks for taking the time to post all that, Sam!
It's just something to think about...since there's so much proof from Lincoln's letters and such. Homosexuality was looked upon differently in the 1800's and even by American Indian tribes.
It wasn't the social "TABOO" that it seems to be today.
Ever been to his grave? Its an awesome place.
Renowned Death Hag
i don't have the book with me,but in the addena it has the itemized bill for the Presidents funeral. $100 for embalming seems a little high.
i will post more items,prices later.
Knowlege Comes With Deaths release
Heaven's on the pillow,it's Silence competes with Hell
"If you don't go to other peoples' funerals,they won't come to yours."-Yogi Berra
Amazing posts Sam! Wow! So the book.... is it out yet? If so I am so buying a copy!
ok awful joke.
"What did Abraham Lincoln and his wife Mary Todd Lincoln have in common? They both had a Todd in them." par rum da dum
Just something that I have wondered for a while....I have lived in the Springfield area all of my life. It is common for the school children in this area to know EVERYTHING about the man. Is this the case for other areas/states? In these parts, Lincoln is the man. I am a teacher, and this year has been extra special since it is the anniversary of his 200th birthday, so even more emphasis has been place on him than before. IDK, just something that I have always wondered about.
BTW, the Lincoln museum that opened a couple of years ago is a dream!!! If your in the area, it is a must see.
I'm sure it is. Why do people find it so horrible or unthinkable that Lincoln could have been Gay?
Can it be possible that Great American Hero's from history may have been Gay?
Oh I would bet hard money on that 50% of our great national hero's were gay/lesbian. Some just can't wrap their little minds around it, which is sad.I'm sure it is. Why do people find it so horrible or unthinkable that Lincoln could have been Gay?
Can it be possible that Great American Hero's from history may have been Gay?
Wow Sam I didn't know that!It's just something to think about...since there's so much proof from Lincoln's letters and such. Homosexuality was looked upon differently in the 1800's and even by American Indian tribes.
It wasn't the social "TABOO" that it seems to be today.
In the 60's you had to have much courage to come out of the closet. No one I knew would.
I remember students talking about certain girls in school with disgust
about them probably being gay and when I looked up my old friends,
MOST OF THEM ARE GAY!
Everyone of my old friends was in heterosexual relationships.
I would have never dreamed the ones that ended up gay
were going to be gay. Never in a million years would they
have said they were gay back then.
Renowned Death Hag
as noted in the jwb thread,how could anyone get the idea a tall thin man,with eccentric fashion sense,who adored the theatre,may have been gay?
Knowlege Comes With Deaths release
Heaven's on the pillow,it's Silence competes with Hell
"If you don't go to other peoples' funerals,they won't come to yours."-Yogi Berra
Renowned Death Hag
Drs. Brown and Alexander embalmed the Pres. for $100,plus $10 a day for 16 days[presumably they touched the body up during its stops.
the coffin was supplied by Sands& Harvey,$1,500.
they must have decorated the White House,for they sold 700 yards[!] white silk for $2,625. crepe,gloves,170 boxes of white thread,$552.50 alone,removing remains of Willie,$10 and 23 days of 3 men at $5.00 per day for 23 days,and a lot of incidentals,ran the bill,including coffin to$7,459.
i really don't know what they did with that silk.
John Alexander charged $290 total for upholstering the White House,funeral car[the hearse] and the railway car.
there are other charges for incidentals,all small sums.
Mrs. Lincolns' dress was $60,shawl $25,veil $10,5yds. black crepe $`1.00 a yd.,gloves and hdkfs[original abbreviation] $7.50 5 pair of hose,$5.00 and a $15.00 bonnett,for a total of $142.50
Elizabeth Keckley received $210 for attending Mary from April 14 to May 26th,$100 for travel and incidentals,round trip to Chicago and back to D.C.,and $50 dollars for requisite mourning apparel.
all of this and more is in the apendix of Margaret Leechs' Reville in Washington,Harper,1941.
Last edited by midnitelamp; 03-30-2009 at 10:42 AM.
Knowlege Comes With Deaths release
Heaven's on the pillow,it's Silence competes with Hell
"If you don't go to other peoples' funerals,they won't come to yours."-Yogi Berra
Renowned Death Hag
Great post I love Honest Abe.
Abe Lincoln as the first Senator to charge for mileage when he went from Illinois to Washington DC
Not sure if this has been posted here anywhere. Great photos of Lincoln recently released by the Library of Congress....
http://www.flickr.com/photos/library...7613324367705/
I had never seen this photo before! Cool!
http://www.flickr.com/photos/library...7613324367705/
One of the greatest ever....not because he was perfect, but because he owned up to his imperfections and embraced them....I find it sad that a thread like this has so few responses, while the death of a movie stars son gets to 100 pages....* sigh *
Lewis Payne, after his arrest: 1865. Payne was one of the four men hanged for the Abraham Lincoln assassination conspiracy.
The execution of Mary Surratt, Lewis Payne, David Herold and George Atzerodt on July 7, 1865.
Lewis Payne, after his arrest: 1865. Payne was one of the four men hanged for the Abraham Lincoln assassination conspiracy.
The execution of Mary Surratt, Lewis Payne, David Herold and George Atzerodt on July 7, 1865.
Nicely done NL
Lewis Payne, standing in overcoat and without hat. Federal guard standing on left
Better pic of hanging
John Wilkes Booth
Lincoln's coffin
Lincoln's funeral
Washington, D.C. President Lincoln's box at Ford's Theater
Nation is mourning the Assassination and Death of President Abraham Lincoln.
Renowned Death Hag
The Presidents cortege did not move in silence.
there were numerous bands,all
playing their own selections.
the horses hooves made a clatter on the cobblestones, all of the forts,and numerous other batteries fired guns on the minute,and bells tolled from every churh tower.
Knowlege Comes With Deaths release
Heaven's on the pillow,it's Silence competes with Hell
"If you don't go to other peoples' funerals,they won't come to yours."-Yogi Berra
Test of Lincoln DNA sought to prove cancer theory
Apr 17, 8:22 PM (ET)
By RON TODT
PHILADELPHIA (AP) - John Sotos has a theory about why Abraham Lincoln was so tall, why he appeared to have lumps on his lips and even why he had gastrointestinal problems. The 16th president, he contends, had a rare genetic disorder - one that would likely have left him dead of cancer within a year had he not been assassinated. And his bid to prove his theory has posed an ethical and scientific dilemma for a small Philadelphia museum in the year that marks the 200th anniversary of Lincoln's birth.
Framed behind glass in the Grand Army of the Republic Civil War Museum and Library in northeast Philadelphia is a small piece of bloodstained pillowcase on which the head of the dying president rested after he was shot at Ford's Theater in Washington 144 years ago.
Sotos, a cardiologist and author, is hoping a DNA test of the strip will reveal whether Lincoln was afflicted with multiple endocrine neoplasia, type 2B. The disorder, which occurs in one in every 600,000 people, would explain Lincoln's unusual height, his relatively small and asymmetric head and bumps on his lips seen in photos, he said.
The disorder leads to thyroid or adrenal cancer, and Sotos cites Lincoln's weight loss in office and an appearance of ill health during his final months. He said a finding that Lincoln had the genetic disorder and probably cancer could shed light on his presidency.
"I'm not interested in how Lincoln might have died. I'm interested in how he might have lived," Sotos said.
Several months ago, Sotos petitioned the museum for permission to test the pillowcase. Gary Grove, a Civil War enthusiast who advised the museum's board of directors, said the issue has been contentious in several meetings.
"There are strong voices both ways," Grove said. "It has taken up a good portion of those board meetings."
Eric Schmincke, president of the museum and its board, said members may decide at a meeting May 5. They must consider not only possible damage to the artifact but also moral issues, he said.
"You have to look at it as questioning someone that more or less can't defend themselves," Schmincke said.
Sotos, while declining to discuss the proposed DNA testing, pointed out that Lincoln has no living direct descendants who would be affected. "Every letter he every wrote has been published, every letter his wife wrote that we can find has been published," he said.
Schmincke said genetic material goes far beyond writings.
"That's him - that's his blood, his brain matter that's on there," he said. Schmincke also questioned what a positive result would mean.
"If they find it's cancer ... it's 140-plus years later," he said. "Would it have been different? We can only guess or surmise."
If Lincoln was seriously ill and knew it, Sotos said, that might explain stories of his premonitions about death.
"I don't think it was mysticism, I think that was him knowing what his body was telling him," Sotos said. "Then if you're a historian, I think you have to say ... how does that affect how you run the war, your clemency toward soldiers who may have deserted their post, the way you reconcile with the South?"
One problem with his theory, which he acknowledges: People with MEN-2B normally die young, and Lincoln was 56 when he was shot. And the malady is only one of several ascribed to Lincoln; researchers in the 1960s suggested another genetic disorder, Marfan syndrome, to explain his height, and others say his clumsy gait could have been due to spinocerebellar ataxia.
Tests have been done on the remains of presidents to settle controversies, most famously for evidence on whether Thomas Jefferson fathered children of his slave, Sally Hemings, and to rule out arsenic poisoning in the death of Zachary Taylor.
Other museums, however, have declined to do DNA tests on Lincoln artifacts.
Grove points out that while such material could shed light on history or answer claims of descent, it could also lead to commercialization, perhaps through sales of jewelry or other items embedded with famous DNA.
And while it may be hard to say what Lincoln would have wanted, the opinion of his surviving son seems clear. After repeated moves of Lincoln's remains, as well as an 1876 plot to rob Lincoln's grave, Robert Lincoln had his father's remains interred underground in 1901 in a steel cage encased in concrete in Springfield, Ill., where they remain. "There," Grove said, "we probably have the closest thing of someone saying, from the family point of view, 'Hey, let's not do this.'"
Last edited by cachluv; 04-22-2009 at 04:43 PM.
Renowned Death Hag
Just reading the book: Assassin's Accomplice Mary Surratt
and the plot to kill Abraham Lincoln.
She was a lot more involed then some people may think.
Like me I always thought she was in the wrong place at
the wrong time and because of her son John Surratt Jr.
It seems I remember as she was being led to the gallows she kept saying, "Don't let me fall, don't let me fall."
Renowned Death Hag
much has been said and written about Marys' guilt or innocence.
and you can argue a good case either way. certainly if Atzerodt had gone immediately to warn the President of the plot,Lincoln may have gotten a third term.
If Mary had not lied about Paine she might have not hanged.
At the end,the other condemned prisoners argued not for mercy for Mrs. Surratt,but loudly and forcefully proclaimed her innocence.
Knowlege Comes With Deaths release
Heaven's on the pillow,it's Silence competes with Hell
"If you don't go to other peoples' funerals,they won't come to yours."-Yogi Berra
I read a book about her, or the conspiracy, I can't remember, but I felt sorry for her.
It was common in those days to share beds between the same sexes. Beds, strangely enough were rare and lawyers to traveled the "circuit" as Lincoln did trying cases often did this. I doubt very much he was gay.
I read a book about her, or the conspiracy, I can't remember, but I felt sorry for her.
I just finished one myself about Mary Surratt--I can't recall the name, sadly enough--but I also just purchased over 100.00 worth of Lincoln conspiracy books. I majored in History in college.
If this revelation would have been told to a 60's population in the U.S.
They would have shit their pants!
Administrator
I read that most people present at the hanging never really thought
Mary Surrartt was going to hang.
Most scholars believe she was indeed guilty.
Renowned Death Hag
certainly there was reason to think she may not have hanged that day.
the death warrant was about to expire,that and the fact that a relay of cavalrymen had been set in place to rush a reprieve from the white house to the gallows.
9 of the commisioners suggested her execution should be converted to life in prison.
Rath,stopped turning marys' knot at 5, so certain was he it would not be used.
president johnson said he never saw the recomendation of clemency,but Judge Holt insists he did indeed give the document to the president.
certainly mrs. surratts daughter sought an audience at the white house. her shrieking and cries had to be heard by johnson. Judge Douglas' widow arrived at the white house for some reason,and she too failed to arrange a meeting with johnson.
i truly don't know who to believe,but it is obvious johnson could have set aside the penalty if he wanted to,without recomendations or anything else,through his executive perogative.perhaps he wanted to show the radicals he could be as harsh as you want to be.
it has been suggested johnson had her hanged as punishment for all seccesh women.
was she guilty? well,she was as guilty as o'laughlin and arnold. Dr. Mudd missed hanging by one vote. if the commision knew what we know now,mudd would have hanged,too.
i belive her hanging came down to two or three points.
as johnson said,she kept the nest where the plot was hatched.it would be hard to imagine she did not know what was up.
lying about not recognizing paine/powell is what put the rope around her neck.
finally,her defense was inept,and on appeal would have won her a new trial in our era,if she had been in civilian court.
Knowlege Comes With Deaths release
Heaven's on the pillow,it's Silence competes with Hell
"If you don't go to other peoples' funerals,they won't come to yours."-Yogi Berra
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