Gay marriage, yay!

[Giada]

And we need more news articles to state what most of us are aware of ... Most Americans Wouldn't Object to Serving Along Side Gays

http://www.aolnews.com/surge-desk/ar...-gays/19694977

I have a bro who retired with honors from the AF and never had an issue with gays in the military. Two nephews who serve in the Marines and AF, again, no issue.

Crikies ... I wish we'd get going on this.

[darlingmissmarple]

Because of the long standing taboo against gay marriage, and the religious hysterics over it, some people have never bothered to make up their own minds.

I say if the worst you ever do in this life is love someone, come on over and be my friend. Two young gay men whom I worked with were subjected to a lot of meanness and threats. One night they came in the break room all dejected by what some Chrisian Redneck had said to them. I told them to point out to the jerk that being gay didn't make the top ten (as in commandments) so I decided it wasn't such a taboo after all. Telling lies made the list and who among us never do that? People need to start thinking for themselves and quit jumping on the wagons whose wheels are wobbling all over the place.

I know I come late to this poll, but, hey I just got here.

[Giada]

Three judge panel chosen to review Prop 8, (Dec 6th).

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...IVSM.DTL&tsp=1

CNN plans to televise the hearing, objections from those who oppose same sex marriage were overruled.

[Snarky247]

Gay marriage? Hell YES!!!!!

Why shouldn't they suffer like the rest of us?

As for DADT, my son is a Marine. Two Iraq deploys, 2 in Afghanistan & another on the horizon. His take? "Why am I risking my ass for other people's rights in other countries when gays don't have rights in ours?"
My take - DADT has caused us to lose highly skilled troops, including medical staff, translators & interpreters. I am NOT okay with my son dying because we didn't have the personnel in place we need & I sincerely doubt anyone else there would be willing to make that sacrifice either.

[Giada]

Woot Woot Woot ... Joy Joy Joy

Boies and Olson put forth a powerful argument for nullifying Prop 8. I could listen to them for hours

(Hysterically funny reason for editing Snarky and all too familiar )

[Bassetlover09]

All of you are supportive of gay marriage, from what I have read so far. Anyone who isn't for it? And reasons why?

[Paulination]

It's funny, 52% of Californians voted for prop 8 yet this state is arguably the most liberal in the union. My position? I voted for it. Reasons being:

As much as proponents want to argue that opposite sex couples are the same as same sex couples, you will never get past the undeniable fact that they are biologically as a whole, different. It is not a matter of being my opinion or your oppinion, it is just fact. Because of this there should be (and this is just my oppinion) a distinguishable and seperate term.

I don't feel that gays are any less relevent or deserving of the same rights. I don't believe that gays deserve anything less than straight couples. As a matter of fact, I am surprised that gays havent come up with or demanded their own term for their union. They are as unique as a marriage between a man and a woman is unique and they both deserve their own special designations.

[Forever-27]

My dad and I had a blow out over this the night of the election. Claiming back in the 70s into the 80s that gays didnt want to be part of us " Breeders " and whatever went on in their bedrooms was their business. In the 90s they switched the whole thing around , demanding the same benifits at work as married people got. They got it, even hospital visits usually only reserved for family. Now they want to press the envelope just a tad further by wanting marrage just as a straight woman and man get.

My only responce to this to my father was and still is .... why do you even care ? Nobody you know is gay or lesbian Let them have their marrage already ! Geeze .... if they want to be as miserable married people, let them. We to this day yell about this when its brought up. I voted Yes and he voted No on Prop 8. We wont ever agree on this.

But still to be fair in how things work in elections, over 60% of California voters dont want gays/lesbians to marry. This will be forcefed to the people who dont want it by some judge. I can see it. Is that how elections that win or lose ultimately get decided ? If it is how it is people will stop voting thinking why bother, some judge will toss my vote out anyways.

Like Prop 187 , back in 1994 we had. 187 would have denied school, health care and any social service to anyone inside the state as an illegal immergrant. The measure passed by 70% of the voters. But was thrown out by some judge as being unconstutional. For starters illegals are not protected by the US constitution. I know people who stopped voting because of this action. Even tho the majority vote passed it, it was over-ruled by one judge.

[Paulination]

If it is how it is people will stop voting thinking why bother, some judge will toss my vote out anyways.

You are absolutely correct on this. I care infinately less that gays get married, than I do that a judge can toss out a decision against the will of the people, regardless of what the subject is.

[Giada]

Judge Walker's 138 page opinion on Prop 8. One of the most thorough and gratifying opinions I've read.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/35374462/C...ng-August-2010

For those interested, the appeal before the 9th Circuit court can be found online ... C-Span.

California voters did not have the, "right to usurp, or change the California constitution." Prop 8 has been overturned. It is now at the federal appeals level, decision to be made within the next two months.

Jerry Brown .. AG, Gov Scwarzenegger, Republican were against Prop 8. Mayor Jerry Miller, San Diego, believes Prop 8 should be overturned.

The majority of Americans ... 67% approve of same sex marriage, and Californians polled recently do as well.

Things have changed ...

[Forever-27]

If polls show you California voters now have buyers remorse over Prop 8 why not reput this back on the California ballot in 2 years ? Ive seen this in our ballot at least 3 times since I started voting and despite what polls say its never passed. Instead they use California's courts to sue to have it instated right this second. I do want this to pass, but I also want this to pass in the correct way.

[STsFirstmate]

You are absolutely correct on this. I care infinately less that gays get married, than I do that a judge can toss out a decision against the will of the people, regardless of what the subject is.

As a southerner and firm believer in state's rights. your argument appeals to my core beliefs but on the other hand we are a republic rather than a true democracy to precisely protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority. I don't happen to think that the majority of Californians really support the ban on gay marriage, I think obfuscation and confusion and marketing of fear and carpet baggers ( the Morons imported to canvas and handle PR) held sway in that deal. But even if they did if you had a referendum within the era of change for desegregation, elimination of Jim crow laws and even protection of freedom of religion all of those propositions would have been roundly defeated. As Rand Paul honestly stated ( and I must give him points for that) while he thinks discrimination is wrong he would not have voted for and doubts the legality of the Civil Rights Act.
The Smithsonian has a great article this month that gives a new perspective on the myth of religious tolerance in the early US. It took legislation and high court findings and broken heads to get us to the religious tolerance we have today, imperfect as it is.
http://www.smithsonianmag.com/histor...Tolerance.html
I think no matter what this will end up being a supreme court issue to finally resolve it for all.
I just hope it is in time for my wife to get my social security should I precede her in death.
I do respect your opinion.
Regards,
Mary

[Giada]

If polls show you California voters now have buyers remorse over Prop 8 why not reput this back on the California ballot in 2 years ? Ive seen this in our ballot at least 3 times since I started voting and despite what polls say its never passed. Instead they use California's courts to sue to have it instated right this second. I do want this to pass, but I also want this to pass in the correct way.

We don't have buyer's remorse. Public opinion and attitudes have changed over the course of time.

We are at a point today ... 2010 polls show Californians would not vote for Prop 8.

Same sex marriage was legal in California and supported by the Constitution. During that time, 18,000 couples married.

The challenge to the Constitution and same sex marriage was by Protect Marriage ... and funded by the Catholic and Mormon churches ... 54m for Prop 8.

The, "correct way," is what is occurring now. Federal judges have listened to both sides of the argument and will offer a decision next year.

(You might want to look at Loving vs Virginia ... Supreme Court case that supported, "the right to marry," by interracial couples. Today that opinion isn't questioned but in 1967 ... 64% of Americans were against interracial marriage)

We do change opinion ... what my brother faced as a gay and what my son faces are entirely different.

Mary ... this will find it's way to the Supreme Court ... both sides are determined to appeal all the way through ... expect it to be heard 2012 or 2013.

You and your partner ... will have the same rights the rest of us are granted.

The US Constitution states, "Marriage is a right."

If you need hope and an uplift of spirit ...

Boies and Olson interviewed by Bill Moyers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajg8JFXUjw0

[rainbow]

I've never looked at this topic before, but I have to say that I am so glad that most of you agree with gay marriage. It makes me feel all the more welcome here. My partner and I just moved to Pennsylvania, which is of course a state that may never have gay marriage. Sigh. It's going to be a long journey, I'm afraid. I guess I could always move to Canada. Or Massachusetts.

[Giada]

I've never looked at this topic before, but I have to say that I am so glad that most of you agree with gay marriage. It makes me feel all the more welcome here. My partner and I just moved to Pennsylvania, which is of course a state that may never have gay marriage. Sigh. It's going to be a long journey, I'm afraid. I guess I could always move to Canada. Or Massachusetts.

The resident cheerleader supports you rainbow ...

Perfect name ... why look at the world in black and white when we all benefit from a rainbow of color.

I not only have the good fortune to have gay's in my family, but associates in the work environment and good friends in the LGBT community.

Truly, it won't be a long journey ... after Prop 8 passed, I felt it would be 20 years before we take the next leap.

I'm not a betting woman ... , but I'm willing to state from what I've been following ... within two years you will have equal rights.

Boies and Olson ... are willing to take this to the Supreme Court. Both have a track record for competent argument.

[rainbow]

Thank you so much, Giada. What kind things to say. I really appreciate it.

[Giada]

Thank you so much, Giada. What kind things to say. I really appreciate it.

My pleasure.

Kindness is reciprocal ...

[joplinfrk]

I just have a hard time living in a country where my partner and I had to go to Canada to get married, but straight couples here can divorce and remarry over and over and over and over again. Where is the logic in that? Believe me, we have thought of leaving.

[rainbow]

I know, right? People cite the "Sanctity of Marriage" as the reason gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry. What sanctity? The entire country is filled with wedding chapels where you can drive through, marry someone, and divorce them the next day. Marriage is not sacred. It's the relationship between two committed people that is sacred, not the union of marriage. It's disgusting, knowing that drug dealers, child abusers, and murderers have more rights than I, as a hardworking, law-abiding citizen who happens to be gay, will ever have.

[Giada]

I hear you Joplin and Rainbow ...

I'm a product of three generations of secular marriage. Religious beliefs have nothing to do with my relationship.

In most of the world ... marriage is a contract, not a religious entity. Exclusion pains me, hurts individuals and creates dissonance.

[rainbow]

You speak the truth, Giada. Unfortunately, our country is run by old, fat, Christian, white guys (excluding the president, of course) who are afraid of change. I'd like to take away their power to divorce their wives because of the "sanctity of marriage" and see what happens.

[Giada]

I love old people when they offer a sense of history, continuity, struggle to effect change.

I have a problem with them when they live sociologically in a world of past beliefs.

The Supreme Court is composed of the elderly ... I'll pause on the demographics.

Our challenge is to create the change we wish to see in the US.

And keeping it secular is part of it ... how do you argue effectively against human rights ... well you can't.

[Paulination]

You speak the truth, Giada. Unfortunately, our country is run by old, fat, Christian, white guys (excluding the president, of course)

Two of the three most powerful politians in Washington is a relatively young black man (which you stated) and a white woman.

[rainbow]

Two of the three most powerful politians in Washington is a relatively young black man (which you stated) and a white woman.

True, but Congress (which is full of old white men) is more powerful than the president. Either way, it seems that the people in charge are too afraid to make any serious changes when it comes to gay marriage, because of the backlash from United States citizens who are only fighting it because of their religion and the fact that it doesn't affect them at all.

[Bassetlover09]

I don't agree with gay marriage. And I have my reasons.

[Paulination]

True, but Congress (which is full of old white men) is more powerful than the president.

It has nothing to do with congress. It is an issue that has been left to the states.

[joplinfrk]

You speak the truth, Giada. Unfortunately, our country is run by old, fat, Christian, white guys (excluding the president, of course) who are afraid of change. I'd like to take away their power to divorce their wives because of the "sanctity of marriage" and see what happens.

Divorce? Nah, they usually end up in sleazy hotels with Tranny hookers. The pious have a fetish for them, dontcha know? That and underage boys, but I digress.

I don't agree with many things. And I have my reasons.

[joplinfrk]

I know, right? People cite the "Sanctity of Marriage" as the reason gay people shouldn't be allowed to marry. What sanctity? The entire country is filled with wedding chapels where you can drive through, marry someone, and divorce them the next day. Marriage is not sacred. It's the relationship between two committed people that is sacred, not the union of marriage. It's disgusting, knowing that drug dealers, child abusers, and murderers have more rights than I, as a hardworking, law-abiding citizen who happens to be gay, will ever have.

Spot on.

I read somewhere that the average American has been married more than once so, which one was the "sanctified" one? Just curious. I've been with my partner 22 years. That's a lifetime in the community. I was 18 when we got together (don't you dare start adding numbers) and have been through things most people would have separated over. These congressmen want to deny us our civil rights because we have matching genitalia, but think nothing of trading in their first wives for newer younger models......behind their backs, more often than not. Sorry, I don't suffer fools nor hypocrisy well.

[Jason]

they should be able to suffer with the rest of us... I mean, YEA!

[Giada]

It has nothing to do with congress. It is an issue that has been left to the states.

And as a Californian ... our state recognizes and respects our Constitution. Judge Walker's opinion overturned Prop 8.

The process will be ... the 9th district court, federal judges, will uphold Judge Walker's opinion, and the proponents of Prop 8 will appeal sending this to the SCOTUS.

Federal law supercedes state law.

Federal suit filed today ... DADT.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/fed...ertain_ne.html

[joplinfrk]

Yes! "They" should!

[p00key]

I just don't get it . American Politicians seems to want to set an example to the rest of the world , so why are they soo behind with this ?? It really confuses me ?

If its about religion ? than surely that makes it no better than the middle east ?? suppressing people and their freedom? This is a genuine question I really am puzzled at why it has not happened for the whole of the US when europe seems so much more liberated .

[Giada]

I'm surprised at times too Pookey ....

We broke from England to lead a country away from religious oppression, (and excessive taxation) ... and we're still fighting it ...

28 countries allow same sex marriage ... and we can claim 5 states and DC.

(It's to the benefit of all of us to see the Supreme Court address this in the next two years)

As an aside ... the argument for straight marriage only is that people marry to procreate. How foolish is that statement!

[rainbow]

I feel so at home in this thread! I don't think that a piece of paper does more for my relationship, but it's simply that I want the same rights as everyone else. I'm not a second-class citizen. I'm a hard working college graduate who pays taxes and bills and yet if I end up in the hospital, my life partner may not be able to come see me. I'm ready to be considered equal.

[Giada]

Giada smiles at Rainbow and says me too ...

My gay bro has been in a committed relationship for 14 years. He says it's highly unlikely he'll ever marry ... but like you rainbow, and so many other's, he wants the choice, and he wants to be included, not excluded.

House to vote on DADT this week.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1..._n_796511.html

Woot ... Woot House passes DADT ... Senate is next

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/12/...s.in.military/

[Giada]

Do Lesbian mums make better mums?

Research says ... Yes!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...rs-my-two-mums

[Nicki]

Absolutely Yes! If one human being loves another regardless of same sex or not.....they should be able to marry who they want. Its about love and living your life with the person you are in love with! Sheesh......why can't people get this!

[Giada]

Jimmy Carter ... US is ready for a gay president ...

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...ay-president/1

(Can we please allow them equal status first ... almost there )

[Paulination]

Jimmy Carter ... US is ready for a gay president ...

Not really an endorsement to be proud of. Just sayin'. To the point though, if they are qualified, orientation shouldn't matter.

[Giada]

Unfortunately ... discrimination exists.

I choose to celebrate change ... slow and certain ...

Kudos to those who expended so much energy to repeal DADT. And congrats to Americans who support equality.

Wonderful to watch the vote and listen to Maddow today.

My family is celebrating

[orionova]

Gay marriage is not, and should not be, a religious issue. It is a civil rights issue. It took government action to integrate schools and make sure everyone was allowed the vote. Popular opinion in many places was against it. Now, we think nothing of a mixed race couple marrying, and some of the handsomest/most beautiful people I have seen are the product of mixed marriages.

The law should not be involved in our love lives, so long as it involves consenting adults.

[Fujicakes]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSQQK2Vuf9Q

This guy....he rocks.

[Giada]

Cool link Fuji ...

Time to change the language ... in California, and elsewhere across the US it's called, "same sex marriage."

[Jerseysucks]

Gay marriage will never happen (in a catholic church anyway) the rules are governed by the vatican. Some of states have Civil Unions/Domestic partnerships which gives you the same rights as a marriage. My best friend works for a major airline in Nevada, he has a same sex civil union with his partner. The state of Nevada recognizes them as a couple and so do the companies they work for.
If same sex unions are legally the same as marriage then what really is the difference except a word (marriage).
The vatican will never change but the states recognize that there is a need for something to be done for same sex couples and alot are doing it.
I'm just glad my friend is happy it's not my place to agree or disagree with his life choice. I think his partner is a great guy and it wouldn't matter is he was living with a man, woman or a duck (OK the duck would freak me out).

[STsFirstmate]

Gay marriage will never happen (in a catholic church anyway) the rules are governed by the vatican. Some of states have Civil Unions/Domestic partnerships which gives you the same rights as a marriage. My best friend works for a major airline in Nevada, he has a same sex civil union with his partner. The state of Nevada recognizes them as a couple and so do the companies they work for.
If same sex unions are legally the same as marriage then what really is the difference except a word (marriage).
The vatican will never change but the states recognize that there is a need for something to be done for same sex couples and a lot are doing it.
I'm just glad my friend is happy it's not my place to agree or disagree with his life choice. I think his partner is a great guy and it wouldn't matter is he was living with a man, woman or a duck (OK the duck would freak me out).

Not exactly accurate. I am married in the state of Ct. and NY recognizes our marriage and civil unions from other states, I also have health insurance as a family through my employer.
That all works for health care, custody, financial responsibility etc in NY, Ct and states that recognize other states civil union or marriage laws. If they don't then if we were in an accident in say, Alabama or Kentucky they would not recognize our legal standing as a couple at all.
The biggest issue is lack of Federal recognition. I am the primary wage earner and have been for 15 years. I make quite a bit more money than her and I am almost 10 years older than her.
If I die she will not qualify for my social security benefits as she would were I am man she was married to.
In some states, even if we have a will, her relatives could step in and challenge and I would not have the same legal protections as a surviving spouse.
Plus if it has the right meaning for the two people doing it marriage is a life changing spiritual bond that is not like anything else in the world, not civil unions not exchanging rings and renting a Haul. It is different and so much more profound when it is right.
The JP who married us has been doing weddings for almost 30 years and she teared up and told us she can tell when it is real and right for people and she was so happy for us.
As far as the church they have every right to place conditions on who they will perform religious rituals for. They recently refused to baptize a child unless the parents married. That is the churches right.
The Jewish faith , depending on how strict the sect, has very severe conditions for interfaith marriages.
There are plenty of churches that are happy, supportive and willing to marry gay and lesbian people when they meet their criteria.
It is time for this to become the Federal Law of the land so people who work hard, pay taxes and participate fully as citizens can get all the rights other citizens enjoy and take for granted.
Regards,
Mary

[Jerseysucks]

Not exactly accurate. I am married in the state of Ct. and NY recognizes our marriage and civil unions from other states, I also have health insurance as a family through my employer.
That all works for health care, custody, financial responsibility etc in NY, Ct and states that recognize other states civil union or marriage laws. If they don't then if we were in an accident in say, Alabama or Kentucky they would not recognize our legal standing as a couple at all.
The biggest issue is lack of Federal recognition. I am the primary wage earner and have been for 15 years. I make quite a bit more money than her and I am almost 10 years older than her.
If I die she will not qualify for my social security benefits as she would were I am man she was married to.
In some states, even if we have a will, her relatives could step in and challenge and I would not have the same legal protections as a surviving spouse.
Plus if it has the right meaning for the two people doing it marriage is a life changing spiritual bond that is not like anything else in the world, not civil unions not exchanging rings and renting a Haul. It is different and so much more profound when it is right.
The JP who married us has been doing weddings for almost 30 years and she teared up and told us she can tell when it is real and right for people and she was so happy for us.
As far as the church they have every right to place conditions on who they will perform religious rituals for. They recently refused to baptize a child unless the parents married. That is the churches right.
The Jewish faith , depending on how strict the sect, has very severe conditions for interfaith marriages.
There are plenty of churches that are happy, supportive and willing to marry gay and lesbian people when they meet their criteria.
It is time for this to become the Federal Law of the land so people who work hard, pay taxes and participate fully as citizens can get all the rights other citizens enjoy and take for granted.
Regards,
Mary

Thanks for filling in some holes (no pun intended) I didn't realize there was that much more to it. My friend never really got into all the ins and outs of it (again no pun intended).
I'm glad you're so happy Mary I've always admired how the love pours out when you talk about your partner. So glad you're happy and once again thank you.

[STsFirstmate]

Thanks for filling in some holes (no pun intended) I didn't realize there was that much more to it. My friend never really got into all the ins and outs of it (again no pun intended).
I'm glad you're so happy Mary I've always admired how the love pours out when you talk about your partner. So glad you're happy and once again thank you.

I feel really lucky. We both kissed a few frogs before we met so we knew what we didn't as much as what we did.
I think even people who are not fans of gay marriage are usually ok with the idea of legal parity and fairness.
I thought about you when Jersey was getting hammered this week. We got ice and that was bad enough.
There is almost always more to this stuff than meets the eye.
Regards,
Mary

[Giada]

Old news at this point ...

US Justice Department will not defend DOMA.

Prop 8 is now in the hands of the Ninth District with a review on, "standing." No opinion expected until the fall, 2011.

[Giada]

Prop 8 ... Next Trial Go Round to be televised

September 6th

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0...geles#comments

[Giada]

"Marriage is so Gay"

Controversial T-Shirt worn at Dollywood incites interference by security and Dolly's attempt to assuage the gay community ...

"Bible Belt Strikes Again," ...

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/08/02...er-shirt-flap/