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Thread: Frances Farmer

  1. #1
    susalu Guest

    Frances Farmer

    More notorious for her personal struggles and lobotomy, but also an actress... That was another tragic life and death... Discuss...

  2. #2
    knothere Guest
    Man she had it tough, poor poor troubled soul, hope she's managed to find peace.

  3. #3
    SuburbanDeathHag Guest
    Her mama was a nut case---she wanted to live her life through Frances. Fame hag... Frances was so beautiful and talented. Sad way she ended up.

  4. #4
    Danny62 Guest
    Rumor has it she got a lobotomy. Anyone shed light on this? I for some reason don't believe it.

  5. #5
    hlh004 Guest
    http://jeffreykauffman.net/francesfa...dinglight.html

    This site shows the famous pic of what people thought were her during the procedure.
    (You have to scroll down but they are kinda located at the bottom)
    And it also has some cool stories!

  6. #6
    Danny62 Guest
    That lobotomy was some crazy shit! Most of the people they did it on lost their mind!!!!!!!!

  7. #7
    hlh004 Guest
    ya. they are electroshocking the person. what the hell. i would never go through that....sorry. no matter how much it helped lol

  8. #8
    coleysabusybabe Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Danny62 View Post
    That lobotomy was some crazy shit! Most of the people they did it on lost their mind!!!!!!!!
    Unfortunately the lobotomy thing was what was viewed as the only way to cure someone with mental illness of that nature. BUT...Frances Farmer didn't have a lobotomy. I saw the movie "Frances" the other day and they of course show the lobotomy, but on IMDB it talks about the lobotomy being completely fictionalized by a doctor who wanted more than his fair share of the fifteen minutes of fame! She was just a sick woman who couldn't get the right kind of care!

  9. #9
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    Hold It People!!!!

    For all of you who don't know THAT much about Frances Farmer, and those who THINK they know, you better check out the following website:

    http://jeffreykauffman.net/francesfa...dinglight.html

    Evidence is STRONG that alot of what we thought happened never happened. It's a very interesting. Check it out........

  10. #10
    pvezz Guest
    Truthfully, I had never heard of her until I watched Jessica Lange play her in "Francis". WOW.

  11. #11
    susalu Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by pvezz View Post
    Truthfully, I had never heard of her until I watched Jessica Lange play her in "Francis". WOW.
    me neither!

    Susan

  12. #12
    SuburbanDeathHag Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Flmlvr View Post
    For all of you who don't know THAT much about Frances Farmer, and those who THINK they know, you better check out the following website:

    http://jeffreykauffman.net/francesfa...dinglight.html

    Evidence is STRONG that alot of what we thought happened never happened. It's a very interesting. Check it out........
    Wow, thanks for the link! Good reading here!!

  13. #13
    Casanndra Guest
    I read the page that was linked, sadly it took me like 4 hours because I kept getting pulled away, but it was a very interesting read! Thanks for the link.

    I read one of the books about her, I'm pretty sure it was the one written by her friend. Her story has always fascinated me. Too bad what I knew was partially fictionalized.

  14. #14
    wraith Guest
    I've read Frances Farmer's autobiography, "Will There Really Be A Morning?". She describes in detail many of the horrors she suffered while institutionalized. According to her own account, she did, indeed, have a pre-frontal lobotomy.

  15. #15
    wraith Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Danny62 View Post
    Rumor has it she got a lobotomy. Anyone shed light on this? I for some reason don't believe it.

    Believe it! She, herself, verifies this in her autobiography, "Will There Really Be a Morning?" I am not all that easy to shock, but her autobiography genuinely did shock me. (I believe Amazon.com has the book.)

  16. #16
    xenaswolf Guest
    When I worked at Western State Hospital we were cleaning out a room and found boxes of old records and Frances Farmers were in there. I didn't get a chance to read them and I think they are in archives now.

  17. #17
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    [SIZE=5]FRANCES FARMER[/SIZE]
    while under contract to Paramount (1941).

  18. #18
    hoxharding Guest
    I read her autobiography when I was a teen-I was obsessed with her story and her. It was so tragic.

  19. #19
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    NATALIE WOOD had purchased the rights to FARMERS' autobiography ([SIZE=3]WILL THERE REALLY BE A MORNING ?[/SIZE]) and (had) wanted to do the movie version. WOOD as we all know died in 1981. There was finally a filmed version in 1983 that starred SUSAN BLAKELY as FRANCES with actress LEE GRANT as her mother. A theatrical biography entitled [SIZE=3]FRANCES [/SIZE]was released the year before that starred JESSICA LANGE with KIM STANLEY as the mother.

  20. #20
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    If you ever want a laugh watch the 'This Is Your Life' episode with Francis Farmer.
    She is trying to respark her career and as the Host Ralph ? goes through all her trials and tribulations with voices from the past you can see a couple times a troubled look in her eye. The worst thing of all was that the big prize that the gave her was a car.
    A 1959 Ford Edsel....poor lady couldn't win for losing.

  21. #21
    maven Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by wraith View Post
    I've read Frances Farmer's autobiography, "Will There Really Be A Morning?". She describes in detail many of the horrors she suffered while institutionalized. According to her own account, she did, indeed, have a pre-frontal lobotomy.
    You're simply incorrect. There is absolutely no statement anywhere in "Will There Really Be a Morning?" about her receiving a lobotomy. First of all, Frances didn't even write the book, as is discussed in the linked article, and most of the "horrors" were made up by her friend to facilitate a film sale of the property. Sad, but true.

  22. #22
    maven Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by xenaswolf View Post
    When I worked at Western State Hospital we were cleaning out a room and found boxes of old records and Frances Farmers were in there. I didn't get a chance to read them and I think they are in archives now.
    Yes, many of the records are indeed in state archives, though you need permission to view them. The author of the linked article reviewed all the relevant documents, the first author ever to do that, which is why his research has been so well-regarded and used as source material for so many other pieces.

  23. #23
    Jack Raines Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by pvezz View Post
    Truthfully, I had never heard of her until I watched Jessica Lange play her in "Francis". WOW.

    I never heard of her until Kurt Cobain named a Nirvana song after her "Frances Farmer Will Have Her Revenge on Seattle". He believed all the stories about her abuse and lobotomy and felt he could relate to her.

  24. #24
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    His daughter has "Frances" as her middle name...

  25. #25
    Jack Raines Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Aries65 View Post
    His daughter has "Frances" as her middle name...
    Actually, according to his bio, Kurt named his daughter Frances Bean, but said she was named after Frances McKee the singer from the Vaselines, not Frances Farmer (although he said he wished he would've thought about it).

    And when Kurt married Courtney Love, she was wearing one of Frances Farmer's old dresses.
    Last edited by Jack Raines; 10-22-2007 at 10:11 PM.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Raines View Post
    Actually in according to his bio, Kurt named his daughter Frances Bean, but said she was named after Frances McKee the singer from the Vaselines, not Frances Farmer (although he said he wished he would've thought about it).

    And when Kurt married Courtney Love, she was wearing one of Frances Farmer's old dresses.
    Thanks for that correction. I knew he was a big fan of Frances Farmer and I had read somewhere that he had read her "morning" bio.

  27. #27
    maven Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by wraith View Post
    Believe it! She, herself, verifies this in her autobiography, "Will There Really Be a Morning?" I am not all that easy to shock, but her autobiography genuinely did shock me. (I believe Amazon.com has the book.)
    Again, you're quite simply wrong. There is not one word in WTRBAM where "Frances" (meaning her friend) verifies it. Because it NEVER happened.

  28. #28
    Jaynrand Guest
    wraith - the lobotomy is not touched upon in WILL THERE REALLY BE A MORNING. It was not even mentioned until William Arnold published his book SHADOWLAND.

    Jeffrey Kauffman at the above link writes all about Arnold's "research" and "agenda" and indeed how Arnold admitted in court that even though his book was sold and marketed as a biography, it was written as a work of fiction.

    And as litigation minded as her family was (her father was an attorney) - they kept a close eye on her treatment and NO professional in a state hospital would have gone against the will of the guardian for fear of a lawsuit. Her uncle Frank who was a doctor himself (Frances was named after him) - also conferred on her treatment.
    Last edited by Jaynrand; 10-22-2007 at 07:25 PM.

  29. #29
    maven Guest
    Mr. Kaufman is very approachable--he took time to answer in great detail a lot of questions I had about Frances. That's why I get a little angry when people post completely inaccurate information about everything--that just continues the cycle.

  30. #30
    Brina Guest
    its nice to see a thread here about frances.


  31. #31
    Brina Guest
    http://www.geocities.com/~themistyone/index2.html

    that site has been around forever and it has some great resourses to learn more about frances.

  32. #32
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    leif and francis

    Leif Erickson was married to actress Frances Famer from 1936 until 1942

    Leif Erickson had leading role as patriarch Big John Cannon in the television series The High Chaparral. Leif Erickson died from cancer in Pensacola, Florida on January 29, 1986
    Last edited by Serendipity09; 07-23-2009 at 01:17 AM.


  33. #33
    tarsier Guest
    I questioned the lobotomy thing having undergone more modern and sane brain surgery that sorta thing doesn't just "go away" it happened and you move on? Nuh-uh it's with you the rest of your life and from that perspective; why would she have gone on as an alcoholic? Just me but once your marbles get physically scambled about the last thing a person wants is to inflict this on themselves. Most abi/tbi (acquired/traumatic brain injury) folk I have met tend to avoid drugs and alcohol after the fact. But there can be exceptions. I just don't buy the lobotomy.

  34. #34
    John Connor Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by maven View Post
    You're simply incorrect. There is absolutely no statement anywhere in "Will There Really Be a Morning?" about her receiving a lobotomy. First of all, Frances didn't even write the book, as is discussed in the linked article, and most of the "horrors" were made up by her friend to facilitate a film sale of the property. Sad, but true.

    This is the truth. I guess she needed the dough if she was willing to say she had used toilet paper crammed down her throat. No matter. She was one of my childhood obsessions. I was a strange child. I think I first saw her in Kenneth Anger's Hollywood Babylon and I knew I had found a kindred spirit. Anyway she died 38 years ago today. August 1.
    Norma Jeane's death anniversary is coming up soon is coming up soon.
    Sharon Tate
    Louise Brooks
    Elvis
    Dorothy Stratten
    So many in August.

  35. #35
    NOVSTORM Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Flmlvr View Post
    For all of you who don't know THAT much about Frances Farmer, and those who THINK they know, you better check out the following website:

    http://jeffreykauffman.net/francesfa...dinglight.html

    Evidence is STRONG that alot of what we thought happened never happened. It's a very interesting. Check it out........
    It is very interesting but it is not all the truth. My mother had a friend that was put in one of those "hospitals" and they did indeed use firehoses and as late as 1966 electroshock was used without any "relaxer". I know this because my husbands first wife was given electro shock without anything, more than once. I doubt that any mental hospital is ever going to admit to abuse of patients but it most certaily did happen. There are many proven facts about abuse of mental patients in those places.
    There were people committed because the family thought they were slow or had a drinking problem that went in and never came out of thsie places. In the last 40 years alone they have tested people who had been locked up for years as mentally ill and found out they were not mentally ill at all.
    I know that this guy made up a lot of stuff that sells books. Twisted things to make himself look good, but as far as her treatment went I have my doubts. My Aunt worked in Santa Anna Ca in a mental hospital as a physc nurder in the 50's and 60's and she had some real horror storied about what went on in that place and she quit the profession because of what happened in that hospital. Of course I only believe 40 percent of what I read lol and even less of what people tell me, but I do believe my Aunt because it bought her to tears when telling these things.
    Something allways bothered me about her family , and the control they tried to have over her before she ever became mentally imbalanced.

    Anyway thanks for that article it was really great and interesting.

  36. #36
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    occupation...co#@sucker...!!!!!!!!!!!,Just love her look when she says this !!!

  37. #37
    Shamrocker99 Guest
    I didn't know that much about her until this post. Very interesting information and I guess no one will ever know the complete truth of what happened when she was committed.

  38. #38
    MorbidMolly Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by hlh004 View Post
    http://jeffreykauffman.net/francesfa...dinglight.html

    This site shows the famous pic of what people thought were her during the procedure.
    (You have to scroll down but they are kinda located at the bottom)
    And it also has some cool stories!

    Wow.....I had to save that link....thanks sweetie.....and Mr. Arnold seems to a true douche bag according to this.....

  39. #39
    pattykad Guest
    OMG, I will never forget that This is Your Life! It was like torture
    for her, poor thing. And her one eyebrow kept getting higher
    and higher...it was so weird. She looked like she could have
    snapped then....why did they torture her like that?

    It's not on youtube...I checked.

  40. #40
    MorbidMolly Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by pattykad View Post
    OMG, I will never forget that This is Your Life! It was like torture
    for her, poor thing. And her one eyebrow kept getting higher
    and higher...it was so weird. She looked like she could have
    snapped then....why did they torture her like that?

    It's not on youtube...I checked.
    Crap.....I would have loved to have seen that.....

  41. #41
    lisalouver Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by xenaswolf View Post
    When I worked at Western State Hospital we were cleaning out a room and found boxes of old records and Frances Farmers were in there. I didn't get a chance to read them and I think they are in archives now.
    WOW xena! I would have loved to have seen that!

    I just googled Western State Hospital and got one in Washington and one in VA, I assume you worked at the one in WA? Is that where Frances was at some point?

    How cool!

  42. #42
    xenaswolf Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by lisalouver View Post
    WOW xena! I would have loved to have seen that!

    I just googled Western State Hospital and got one in Washington and one in VA, I assume you worked at the one in WA? Is that where Frances was at some point?

    How cool!
    Yep the one in WA state. The place was down right freaky and of course I worked on the criminally insane ward....wheeee

  43. #43
    lisalouver Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by xenaswolf View Post
    Yep the one in WA state. The place was down right freaky and of course I worked on the criminally insane ward....wheeee
    I can not imagine what that was like! When I was in the Navy, I worked at the oldest Naval Hospital - Portsmouth, VA. At the time I was there, they still used Building 1 which was the old hospital - built around 1827. It is still standing, and if I am not mistaken, still being used.

    Anyway, they housed OB and Labor & Deliv there, but back in the day the prisoners were kept in the basement along with the mental patients. Chained to walls!

    I worked some scarey night shifts there!

  44. #44
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    Interesting post.... will read that linked article, when I´m not as tirred as now Saw the movie Frances with Jessica Lange (fab performance) and was really taken by it... Wheter or not all of that happended I don´t now, but I still feel so very sorry for her.... must have been an awfull life.... She was so pretty.. so Sad.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Love is the answer - and you know that for sure.

  45. #45
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    Thumbs down Call to revoke Nobel prize for lobotomy inventor

    Call to revoke Nobel prize for lobotomy inventor


    Tue, 19 Jul 2005 Relatives of patients who underwent lobotomies are lobbying to revoke a Nobel Prize for Medicine awarded to the inventor of the procedure.

    Portuguese neurosurgeon Egas Moniz developed the technique in 1935 as a way of treating people with severe psychiatric illnesses and was awarded the 1949 Nobel Prize for medicine. Even at the time, the technique was controversial, with some doctors criticising it as brutal, unscientific and harmful. However, in some cases spectacular recoveries happened and between the mid-1930s and the 1970s, about 50,000 Americans received lobotomies.

    Some lobotomised patients, however, had to be institutionalised after the operation. The daughter of one woman who became unable to care for herself after a 1949 lobotomy to cure chronic headaches is now agitating to strip Moniz of his prize. But the director of the Nobel foundation has flatly refused to consider the idea. "There's no possibility to revoke it," says Michael Sohlman. "It's a non- starter."
    pull the string!

  46. #46
    sunshine74137 Guest
    This may be a little off francis but here is a link to a mans story of being labotomized, His stepmom didn't like him ! Warning!!! he has a picture of it being done. I think in Francis's time the mentally ill were just treated so badly.
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=5014080
    Last edited by sunshine74137; 08-03-2008 at 04:46 PM.

  47. #47
    knothere Guest
    i bet the menatally ill r never truely treated with the proper help

  48. #48
    Cathy J. Guest
    Despite all the things we have learned over the years about mental illness, sadly some of those hospitals today are really just as bad as they were during Farmer's time.

    As recently as 10 years ago I remember watching a story on TV about the Charter Hosptial chain...one of their hospitals where in some kind of contest where if they kept the beds full for a year therefor making a profit, then the staff would win a free trip to Hawaii. Patients who should have left to go home..didn't and the hosptial admitted some who really had no business being there. Like the woman who was admitted whose only problem was she was trying to lose weight ( she saw an ad for some weight reducing clinic..the ad was actually for Charter even though that wasn't mentioned in the ad )

    I remember saying to myself "what?".."OMG..what?" when I watched this on TV.

  49. #49
    Noelle Page Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by KELT View Post
    NATALIE WOOD had purchased the rights to FARMERS' autobiography ([SIZE=3]WILL THERE REALLY BE A MORNING ?[/SIZE]) and (had) wanted to do the movie version. WOOD as we all know died in 1981. There was finally a filmed version in 1983 that starred SUSAN BLAKELY as FRANCES with actress LEE GRANT as her mother. A theatrical biography entitled [SIZE=3]FRANCES [/SIZE]was released the year before that starred JESSICA LANGE with KIM STANLEY as the mother.

    Am watching the Jessica Lange movie now. Saw it when it first came out. It got glowing reviews, but I don't like it. The script seems very hackneyed to me. They could have had a lot more fun with it. There's no real sense of the period, of L.A. (but then again, Chinatown is my gold standard)...and the Frances character has very little edge.

    I also hate how they invented a bogus character for Sam Shepherd to play....so clearly shoehorning him in so that Jessica's boyfriend could be in the movie. Every time he enters the frame, this insufferable harmonica music starts playing.

    Jessica does look just perfect, though.

  50. #50
    cherryghost Guest
    Jessica did nail something about Francis maybe it was just the look?

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