Do you think Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle got a bad rap (pardon the pun), or do you think he was guilty of raping Virginia Rappe? Personally, I think he was innocent. Comments?
Do you think Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle got a bad rap (pardon the pun), or do you think he was guilty of raping Virginia Rappe? Personally, I think he was innocent. Comments?
Guest
i'm on the fence on this one, i have read very interesting fact on both sides~
personally, i believe he did it. the injury she sustained (and that ultimately lead to her death) would have to have come from some sort of trauma (rape, etc.) had there been DNA testing way back when, i believe he would've been found guilty with no questions asked.....
Eh - I'm on the fence on this one, too - although I'm leaning to innocent. This is not one I've really dug into, so I'm not speaking from any vast research. I just have a gut feeling...
I don't think he did it. Maude Delmont was a well-known enabler, the prosecutor was trying advance his career via the outcome of the case, and Rappe herself was about as far from virginal as humanly possible.
I think she died from a botched abortion....which wasn't her first.
They cleared him because it was found that she had some sort of vd and that it was a setup to ruin his career.
He was not a saint or an 'innocent'...BUT I believe he was innocent of that act in SF in 1921...
Marlow
Let me put it this way: If he did do it, he paid for it the rest of his life.
I remember reading an account of Arbuckle having to wear a fat suit on account of losing so much weight due to his heroin habit. I don't know if you've ever worn a fat suit, but it's a fairly miserable experience under the best of circumstances.
But Fatty Arbuckle was not simply wearing a fat suit: he was supposedly wearing a fat suit when it was one hundred and fifteen degrees in LA. And on top of that, his every nerve is standing on end, because he is going through heroin withdrawal.
If there's a hell worse than that, I don't think I'd want to hear about it.
And the above was a mere prelude to what he went through after the trial. Despite his acquittal, no one would show his films, let alone hire him under his own name.
As an aside: I've always wondered if the room in which Virginia Rappe died at the Saint Francis is still made available for overnight stays.
Some hotels seem to embrace that kind of notoriety, whilst others get quite snotty if you ask about such scandals. I'm guessing that the Saint Francis falls into the latter category, but it'd be nice to hear from someone who has actually tried to book that room.
What if she had just recently had an abortion that was botched then had sex? I would think that could lead to some pretty serious consequences and abortions weren't exactly done under sterile circumstances in those days.
Fatty was framed. What a tragic life.
I have believed for years he is innocent. He may not have been a perfect angel, but he was not responsible for Virginia Rappe's death. What I think is a sad story about Fatty occurred after his career was ruined. Marion Davies wanted Arbuckle to direct her new movie - which he did under an assumed name. He met William Randolph Hurst on the set. Fatty asked why he would let him direct his dear Marion after Hurst's papers did everything to ruin him. Hurst just says, "Oh Roscoe, don't take it so personally. It sold newspapers." That is how Roscoe was treated. And I hope in time he will be appreciated for his contribution to the world of cinema.
This is just my theory on this. Remember it is just my theory. What I think happen was this. Fatty was celebrating the fact that he had just signed a million dollar contract. But after awhile he's starts realizing he is worth a whole more. He was making big money for the studios. So he decides to play hardball with the studio bigwigs. Asking for more or he would terminate his contract. Well the big guys decide that they were not going to lose there main bread and butter, so they plan to hire Miss Rappe to go to that party (and some witnesses) and cry rape. Well the plan was for the big heads to come to his rescue and offer there help but in return he would stay with the studio at maybe at a cheaper prize. But they didn't expect that Rappe was already sick and ready to die. So everybody lost in the end. What do you think sounds plausible.
Pretty brilliant theory! I do believe that he was framed. While he was no choirboy, you don't read anywhere that he was a sicko, so I don't believe he hurt that woman, if indeed he was even involved with her.
I think eca has a good theory..I always thought he was innocent and set up...back then the studios could hide anything or cause anything to be blown up in the press.....
i didn't think anybody was ever going to reply to my post, and some people did and I was even called brilliant. tee he he he.
But seriously that is what I thought could be the only explanation. From accounts he was not a bad man who would hurt someone intentionally.
I definetely think he was framed. She was dfinetely a hollywood ho. She is buried in the Hollywood Forever Cemetery. There was a man who was in love with her and paid for her funeral. He is buried in the plot next to her.
Henry 'Pathe' Lehrman
I think when you find his name, the word prick will probably be close-by. He wasn't well-liked.
I live near SF and I talked to an old guy that apparently worked there when this happened. He said people were saying that he was "huge" in other respects other than his weight.
He also said that she was sick before she got to the party but the cops didn't want to isten to anything that the party goers said. He also said it was a set up.
She was a hooker and I heard that it was a botched abortion . Your are right I think about him getting too big for his britches and the studio was going to let him get caught with this tramp so they could "cover it up" because of the morals clause in the contract. Then he would owe them big time but it backfired on them.
His wife stood by him thru this but they lost every nickle they had..
Hearst was a jerk lol it runs in the family.
Arbuckle was damn near as big as Chaplin in those days...and getting closer by the minute. Considering how the studios in those days fought tooth and nail to keep their meal tickets from any harm, publicity-wise, I'd have a VERY hard time believing the studio had anything to do with the framing of Arbuckle.
I am more inclined to believe that this cover-up had everything to do with the combination of Prosecutor Brady's political agenda, the wretched Maude Delmont's willingness to do anything for money, and William Randolph Hearst's to often fondness for screwing people over to sell copy.
If the studios REALLY wanted to give Fatty a good screwin', given their power & position, they could have easily fabricated some credible witnesses to come forward, and not the immoral charletons that did.
That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
Last edited by Ron Burgundy; 10-22-2007 at 08:21 AM.
He was innocent- period. Buster Keaton stayed his friend through thick and thin and got him work after the trials were over... when no one else would. Keaton billed Arbuckle under the name
"Will B. Good"
I have read he was innocent. Hollywood babylon shows a picture of the trashed room. There were also reports of screaming in the room. Plus, Fatty seemed indifferent while on trial.
I don't know if those reports are true. Even if they are, it doesn't mean it shows guilt. I does seem odd somehow, I just don't know what it would mean.
He was innocent, I believe.
i vote innocent...set up
Innocent. Virgina was known..if ya get my meaning.
Here is what Wikipedia has to say about him:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscoe_Arbuckle
Here is the last paragraph of the AFTERMATH section:
"Rosco Arbuckle finished filming...on june 28, 1933; the next day he was signed
by WARNER BROTHERS to make a feature-length film. At last, Arbuckle's professional
reputation was restored, and he was welcomed back into the world he loved. He
reportedly said "This is the best day of my life." The exilaration may have been
to much for him: he died that night of a heart attack. He as 46. He was cremated
and his ashed scattered in the Pacific Ocean."
I found all that very sad.
But he may have been, for the first time in many years, a happy man as that
last candle went out...
BTW: I think he was innocent
She died of peritonitis which was a result of the ruptured bladder and probably something else if she'd had a botched abortion. Even if her bladder had been FULL and he had raped her, it's doubtful her bladder would have ruptured. It is possible, but the abdomen is a cavity and there is some room for stuff to be shifted around. It's a sad story and I can't help but think that the phrase 'conspiracy theories' exsists for a reason.
i do believe the man was innocent. poor guy. rip fatty (a man who lets himself be known as 'fatty' can't be the type to rape a woman so violently that she dies...)
pull the string!
I read somewhere that she'd had an abortion like 3 days earlier or something and it was a big set up. I don't know but in any case the poor guy was ruined.
Innocent I don't buy into conspiracies but don't need one once Hurst became involved.
I concur with the jury.
I'm surprised there hasn't been a major bio pic done on Roscoe, the first film comedian superstar who gave Buster Keaton a break by putting him in several Arbuckle films. On top of that, he was making big bucks before Chaplin made his first Amercan film. According to Wiki, Roscoe mentored Chaplin who borrowed Roscoe's baggy pants and small hat to help create the famous Chaplin character. I'd love to see Roscoe Arbuckle's story in a big budget film.
Chris was in my mind too, Jack.
However a great candidate for the role, IMHO, is Michael Badalucco, whose most notable role was that of Baby Face Nelson in "Oh Brother Where Art Thou". Arbuckle's story needs to be told as accurately and engaging as possible.
A good friend of mine is the former PR manager for the Fairmont Hotel where it happened.She says Fatty was framed and destroyed,Rapp is buried at East Lawn in Sacramento about two miles from my house.She was known to be a available type if you get my meaning.The heads of studios were asshole buddies with Hearst who controlled all the newspapers and loved controversy,it sold papers
Here's a page of Arbuckle Quicktime clips, the first of which is from a 1917 film of Roscoe doing the "roll dance"...the site claims eight years before Chaplin did it:
http://silent-movies.com/Arbucklemania/Quick.html
This page contains rare Arbuckle audio: http://silent-movies.com/Arbucklemania/Sound.html
The more I read, the more I think Roscoe was screwed. Chaplin is generally proclaimed as the screen's first comic superstar...he was not...it was Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle.
I agree that they should make a movie about him. It would be a way of helping the public to understand that he may not have been the monster that the papers made him out to be.
There was a major movie based on the party, The Wild Party . The movie was beset with production problems, including a terrible recutting by the distributor without the consent or approval of the director.
Unfortunately, the writers played it far too free and easy with the facts of the situation.. They made WAY too many changes to the storyline (as you do ). Too bad really, with James Coco in the Fatty role, and Raquel Welch in the Rappe role it could have been a very good movie.
Virginia died as a result of a Ruptured Fallopian Tube due to "the clap". In those days putting out was part of the territory...they all did it the casting couch was the way you got work. I don't think Fatty Raped her do I think he's totally innocent? No I've seen pics of the room...he wanted a little something something and he got more than what he bargained for.
and he lost it all over a piece of diseased ass a shame...Yes I also would like to see a movie done on his life.
I guess I'll have to look into this further
We had a case here in my state that happened in the 1960's of a little boy who died of the same thing (well peritonitis) and they closed the case.
Twenty years later they re-opened it and convicted his adopted mother of his death.
His bowel ruptured from a blow to the stomach and this caused the contents (feces) to leak out into his stomach, causing the peritonitis.
I know it is a painful death.
This reminds me if I can find the info on this case, it will make a great thread!
I stand corrected she did die of a ruptured bladder...Not sure how that happened or if Fatty caused it but it does sound like she suffered. Is there really evidence that Ms. Rappe was a prostitute? I mean all the actresses back then used the casting couch to get work they all did it. if you lump her in the prostitute catagory because of that you have to lump them all in that catagory.