Renowned Death Hag
Attachment 43156
About John: A photo that more than any other symbolized the tragedy at Our Lady of the Angels was taken by photographer Steve Lasker on December 1, 1958. In the photo fireman Richard Scheidt is carrying John's limp body from the school following the fire. The photo was carried in newspapers around the world. John was an accomplished musician. He sang in the Boys Choir and played the accordion. He planned to become a priest.
"What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's really all about?" Jimmy Buffett
Death Hag
Such a nice looking boy. My dad also played accordion. I think it was a popular 50's thing. He still has his and I wonder if John's family still has his too.Originally Posted by Alanwench
Administrator
Name matches the date of birth and death as well as address, also someone on the board , confirmed information with a contact that knew the person that started the fire and talked to same person when he moved and changed his name.
Senior Death Hag
Yeah. John was a cute kid.
You robbed an international house of pancakes. How waffle-Harry T. Stone
Twitter: @rchamberlain87 Follow me if you want. Just play nice.
Only the good die young....
Senior Death Hag
Thank you for the names. I will keep updating if I learn anything!
Death Hag
Audy Juvenile Home, Chicago, IL.
TSWTA, regarding "the boy", as an adult, "He was still bitter over the way he had been treated in the hearings in Family Court. "Ever hear about child abuse? That's what I'd call it. They had me in the Audy Home in solitary confinement for three months, in a little room".
Ninety two children and three nuns dead. Many others injured. And the poor family and friends of both the dead and injured. Self centered bastard!
Death Hag
Starr Commonwealth Boy's Center in Albion, MI, where "the boy" received psychiatric treatment to "help cure him of his fetish for starting fires". He remained here from 1962 until his release in 1965, when he entered military service and was sent to Vietnam.
From TSWTA..."I got my ass in a bind for setting fires in Cicero", said "the boy".
Death Hag
Can you say, "Zippo Raid", boys and girls?
Renowned Death Hag
About Joseph: Joseph was officially the first victim removed from gutted school after fire. He died after arrival at the hospital. Interred: St. Joseph (River Grove, IL) Attachment 43179Attachment 43180
Memories of Joseph Joey, I'm so happy to see this photo of you. You were such a nice looking boy, and a very nice person. I valued our friendship. I still remember our classroom photo of 1956, you were sitting right up front, next to me in that photo. But I lost that photo, and I was very sad when I lost you. Rest in Peace my little Angel friend.
-- (Joyce Peneschi, Friend)
Joseph, I only knew you for a short time, yet your smile and jolly personality lit up the room. I shared a split room with you in 1957, you were in the fourth grade, I was in the fifth. Rest in peace. If you happen to see my little sister Joanie, tell her I love and miss her so. You are not forgotten. A friend from afar.
-- (Bob Chiappetta, Acquaintance)
"What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's really all about?" Jimmy Buffett
Renowned Death Hag
Excellent work finding pics of both places where the arsonist went for treatment. I wonder if he was ever truly sorry for the OLA fire since he was in heavy denial about setting it in later years.
Starr Commonwealth Boy's Center in Albion, MI, where "the boy" received psychiatric treatment to "help cure him of his fetish for starting fires". He remained here from 1962 until his release in 1965, when he entered military service and was sent to Vietnam.
From TSWTA..."I got my ass in a bind for setting fires in Cicero", said "the boy".
"What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's really all about?" Jimmy Buffett
Renowned Death Hag
Name.....please......anyone?
I told my lawyer he's better step it up or we would both end up on an episode of "SNAPPED"
Renowned Death Hag
Attachment 43181
Memories of Lawrence Larry, you were such a nice polite boy and I really enjoyed talking to you in the short time we were friends together. I missed you when God took you away to be with all the other angels. I will always remember you. Rest in Peace my little Friend.
-- (Joyce Peneschi, Friend)
Larry was my friend and I miss him. John.
-- (John Raymond, Friend)
Larry is my brother. I was 8 years old when he died and unfortunately I have very few memories of him. He played the piano, wanted to become a priest and was very adventurous. I have feelings of guilt because on the day of the fire I had no concern for him, believing that he being older could take care of himself. My sole concern was finding my younger sister, Cathy. I was so happy to hear from John Raymond a few years ago that Larry was his good friend and that he still thinks of him often. Larry certainly became an angel to soon.
-- (Dave Dunn, Brother)
I am Judy Scarano and was Larry's neighbor. I did not go to OLA except for religion classes, which I believe were on Wednesday. I got out of school at Cameron and ran to OLA because we all saw the smoke. It was the worse sight I ever saw as a child. So many parents calling for their children. Larry is on my mind quite often. When I think of my childhood, I think of Larry. The day he did not come home, I was in his home with my mother. A few of the neighbors were there. What a very sad day. Larry and I played quite often - we got along great. We had a gangway between our houses, and we could see each other through our windows across the gangway. We always played that we were getting married. Larry was a very special friend to me. I missed him something awful after he was gone. I am so glad to have had him as a friend. Rest in peace.
-- (Judy Scarano Weber, Friend)
"What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's really all about?" Jimmy Buffett
Renowned Death Hag
Memories of David I remember David, he was one of my playmates when I lived at 443 N. Harding Ave. There was a whole group of us who played together. We mostly gathered at Lucille and Grant Whittaker's (Teresa's parents) store. We played together often during the summer months, day and/or early evenings, even after the street lights went on. We usually played tag with the girls and boys from the block. If the girls played alone it would be in Teresa's backyard or in the front of the store. You know, girl stuff -- lemonade, cookies cake and games.
I remember the last time I saw David; it was fall and were playing tag. I was chasing him since I was the person guarding home base. Home was represented by the bricks on the far North end and in the front of Lucille and Grant's store. Anyway, I was chasing him to tag him "out" without out any luck. That boy could really run fast. Needless to say I didn't catch him. We ended up with him standing at one end of the empty city lot and me at the other. This lot stood between the store and another house to the south of Theresa's parent's store. I just remember us looking at each other and him waiting to see if I would still try to tag him. I gave up, out of breath. Those were fun time for all us kids. David was the youngest of all his brothers, and a real good kid. David's sister was born after he left us, but I never got to know her. My family, like many others, migrated to the suburbs about two years after the fire.
-- (Pauletta (Giandonato) Stepanek, Neighbor)
David was 10 years old when he died in the fire. He was born in February 1948. At the time he was one of four boys. I will never forget when my mother ran to the school. She was looking for her two sons. My one brother was at someone's house until 7:00 pm, when we found him. We never found David: finally my father and I went to the morgue to identify him. My parents were never the same again. It's very hard to look at pictures. I still have some of his belongings. He is buried at Queen of Heaven. I'll never forget his face he was always smiling. He was an angel. I named my son after him: David Biscan.
-- (Steve Biscan, Brother)
Attachment 43182
"What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's really all about?" Jimmy Buffett
Renowned Death Hag
Police squadrols normally used to transport criminals to the police station were pressed into use to take victims to the morgue. Click to enlarge the pic, the street is full of concerned parents and neighbors who were probably in shock from witnessing the fire and the large number of small forms carried out by firefighters.
Attachment 43183
"What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's really all about?" Jimmy Buffett
Renowned Death Hag
This attitude is typical of the narcissistic personality. They're not capable of feeling bad for anyone but themselves. I'm sure he was bitter about being "mistreated" the rest of his life.
Audy Juvenile Home, Chicago, IL.
TSWTA, regarding "the boy", as an adult, "He was still bitter over the way he had been treated in the hearings in Family Court. "Ever hear about child abuse? That's what I'd call it. They had me in the Audy Home in solitary confinement for three months, in a little room".
Ninety two children and three nuns dead. Many others injured. And the poor family and friends of both the dead and injured. Self centered bastard!
Death Hag
OLA Memorial
"I don't feel like saying anything about it, because it happened so long ago and I don't really remember. If I say something, I might say something wrong. I want to forget about it, and besides, who the hell is going to say they're sorry at me?" - the boy
"I remember when, I remember
I remember when I lost my mind
There was something so pleasant about that place
Even your emotions have an echo in so much space"
Administrator
Would love to get my hands on a copy of the life magazine with the articles about OLA I tired to do a search for them and nothing is coming up. About him going to Vietnam I bet he did a lot of those Zippo Raids.
Can you say, "Zippo Raid", boys and girls?
LOL cat!
Has anyone read the interviews/articles done on Michele McBride to the Chicago newspapers and weekend magazines around the time her book came out?
Renowned Death Hag
No, but I would love to read them. Did you know that Michele was supposed to be on the plane that crashed shortly after take-off in the late 1970s? It was either Flight 181 or Flight 191. There is a famous picture of the plane turned sideways in the sky.
"What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's really all about?" Jimmy Buffett
Senior Death Hag
She cheated death twice. Crazy! Yet, awesome.
Oh, it was Flight 191. Which. Is a cursed number for flights supposidly. The plane that crashed here in Lexington in 2006 was flight 191 as well.
Here's the wiki article with the picture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...nes_Flight_191
Last edited by Dr. Fishhead; 08-18-2012 at 04:25 PM.
You robbed an international house of pancakes. How waffle-Harry T. Stone
Twitter: @rchamberlain87 Follow me if you want. Just play nice.
Only the good die young....
Renowned Death Hag
Thanks for posting the article, toddmanning. Another survivor of the fire, Charlene Janczik (she was mentioned a few pages back) died after brain surgery. Date of death: Nov. 30 (I don't recall the year, but it was in the early 2000s. Date of the fire: December 1.
"What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's really all about?" Jimmy Buffett
Senior Death Hag
Charlene died in Nov. 2003.
You robbed an international house of pancakes. How waffle-Harry T. Stone
Twitter: @rchamberlain87 Follow me if you want. Just play nice.
Only the good die young....
Renowned Death Hag
Thanks for keeping me straight on facts, toddmanning.
"What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's really all about?" Jimmy Buffett
Renowned Death Hag
This is an exerpt from a Chicago Tribune story on the 50th anniversary of the fire:
"By then, panicked children had already begun to jump from the upper floor, where 5th through 8th graders were taught, landing in heaps on top of each other. From an upper window, a nun screamed, "We are trapped! We are trapped!" A passing milkman saw the smoke, ran inside and dragged 10 pupils to safety, including one girl frozen in terror on a stairwell who was blocking the escape of others. Among the horrified crowd that gathered outside was a woman with tears streaming down her face. Apparently unable to speak English, she waved a grimy, wrinkled scrap of paper in front of firemen and others in the crowd. It read: "Mary . . . Room 209."
Fortunately, Mary survived because Room 209 had two fatalities, Beverly Burda and Valerie Thoma.
Last edited by Alanwench; 08-18-2012 at 10:02 PM.
"What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's really all about?" Jimmy Buffett
Junior Death Hag
This thread has sucked me in for the past day and a half!
I'm usually more of a lurker here but I had to jump in here with a thought I have.....
I wonder if "the boys" identity is protected so fiercely because of something more? The victims of the fire seem to think no good will come from revealing this person......but I wonder if they are afraid of the hornets nest that it will stir up if it becomes common public knowledge.
They say that it is time to move on....that they don't want the issue to be taken out on his family.....or they bring up legal concerns.....but I am just amazed at how fiercely the name is protected.
Renowned Death Hag
Welcome, rubbernecker!!! Happy to meet you. I agree with your theory that there has to be something more to this story. All the reasons we've heard about not revealing the arsonist's identity don't make sense to me either. The sheer numbers of people involved, and we're supposed to believe that they ALL just want "bygones to be bygones" and that no good will come from a revelation? I dunno. Were I a parent who'd lost a child, had an injured child, etc., I'd be screaming for the rest of my life until the arsonist was revealed. But that's just me.....
Hope you stay out of lurkdome and continue to post!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Renowned Death Hag
John Trotta's father had no problem voicing his feelings in TSWTA. He told of standing at his son's grave and telling him that if he ever found out who set the fire, he would kill the person. This would be done to avenge the death of John David Trotta.
"What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's really all about?" Jimmy Buffett
I know people have concerns about disclosing the name but c'mon, many other criminals (children, teens, and adults) have had their names revealed to the public and to the best of my knowledge few of them have been murdered in an act of revenge. Our little fire bug changed his name as an adult anyway, so i don't see why people protect his name with such ferocity. I'd like to know what he looked like as an adult and if he committed other arson acts (or other criminal acts) before he died.
Yep, isn't it amazing?? I found out about her second round in cheating death here visiting this site - thanks to you guys. Wow!
Death Hag
[QUOTE=luckyinlove;1310943]I know people have concerns about disclosing the name but c'mon, many other criminals (children, teens, and adults) have had their names revealed to the public and to the best of my knowledge few of them have been murdered in an act of revenge. Our little fire bug changed his name as an adult anyway, so i don't see why people protect his name with such ferocity. I'd like to know what he looked like as an adult and if he committed other arson acts (or other criminal acts) before he died.[/QUOTE
I too would love to see a photo of the "boy" as an adult and I have also wondered about criminal activity. As I said in an earlier post, I don't beleive that arsonists "retire" and as a truck driver (especially long hauling) he could go undetected
forever. I would also be curious what the guys who served with him in Vietnam would have to say.
"I remember when, I remember
I remember when I lost my mind
There was something so pleasant about that place
Even your emotions have an echo in so much space"
Renowned Death Hag
o.m.g.
This is the clinical definition of a psychopath...one is unable to empathize with anyone else.
That's news to me and really fascinating. Found myself picking up Michele's book again and once again being totally engrossed. Her account of the fire and her recovery are more affecting than TSWTA, perhaps because it is so personal.
I have been a lucker for years, but it was this thread is what pushed me over to join. I have a sixth degree of separation the OLA fire as my brother in laws attended the school at the time of the fire. One was in the same grade, but not the same class as "the boy" aka. little pyro murdering bastard. Fortunately, they were not hurt. I have also followed the OLA website for some time and like many have been surprised and amazed at the steadfastness of the group collective to keep his name of the forum. Although I am not a conspiracy theorist type, I do not believe it all due to altruism for their silence. They eat people alive who make inquiries of the name or any other subject they don't want to discuss. It comes across as somewhat childish at times, "I have a secret you don't know." I truly understand the enormity of the trajedy they experienced at such a young age.
Renowned Death Hag
Welcome CA!
I'm amazed too. It's truly puzzling how many people are/were silent about the boy/man. Wonder why simply asking about "the boy" sets people off?
Death Hag
Question: In October 1961, the mother of the "boy" was three months pregnant. The step-sibling would have been born April or May 1962. A few months before me. Does anyone know if this child was/is a boy or girl?
"I remember when, I remember
I remember when I lost my mind
There was something so pleasant about that place
Even your emotions have an echo in so much space"
I've found no evidence this child was ever born.
The same thing is going on here. Everyone is PMing his name around, but no one is just posting it. Why? He's been dead for almost 8 years. His step dad died in 1999. His mom is still alive, but has not had his stepdad's last name for a long time, so relatively anonymous at this point.
Maybe there is a curse?
Let's see... his name is...arrgghhhhh.....
I'm a long-time lurker and a first-time poster. I've been following this thread for quite some time and trying in my own humble way to play detective myself, without much luck. Now I absolutely can't stand it. Would someone please be gracious enough to send me the name of this troubled young man, possibly let me know which pictures everyone has been referring to that show him? I believe I found him in the one class picture (he was sitting in front of the girl with dark hair by the board) but since I haven't been able to see many other picture links until I signed in today, I don't know what other pictures may show him. I did rummage through the OLA site but from what I understand his information and likeness aren't shown there.
Thank you very much for sharing the information. Jeannie
The last name he had at the time of his confession...was that the same last name he had at the time of the actual fire? Do we know what year his mother married his step-father? The last name he died with, do anyone know where that name came from? Did he just pick a name??
And i was wondering about his mother's pregnancy as well. The child was never mentioned again in anything i've read/researched. Perhaps she miscarried or the baby died young??
I'd be interested to know when he changed his name as well. Are we protecting his birth name (I''m assuming this was his name at the time of the fire) or his name when he died - or both? And again, why????? I get that he was not charged or convicted of a crime, but I've seen lots of other examples of "X name confessed to the crime but later recanted" on news reports, Wikipedia, forums etc. So why not with this fire?
Death Hag
At the time of the fire "the boy" was using his mother's maiden name. His mother married in 1959. By the time of the confession, "the boy" was using his step-dad's last name, a name he used until he died.
"I remember when, I remember
I remember when I lost my mind
There was something so pleasant about that place
Even your emotions have an echo in so much space"
Death Hag
A while back someone posted that they had an address in CA for "the boy" could someone please PM me that info?
Thanks!
"I remember when, I remember
I remember when I lost my mind
There was something so pleasant about that place
Even your emotions have an echo in so much space"
Hi everyone, im so glad I found you guys and this site. I read the To sleep with the Angels book a few months ago and it has haunted me since then. Im so sorry for the loss of the children. I cant imagine sending a child to school and having them die in such a terrible way. I live in a suburb right next to Chicago and not far from where this occured. Has everyone see this on find-a-grave http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...&GSvcid=194240. Notice the markers for Kathleen Carr, Margaret Kucan and Patricia Kuzma mention the school.
Administrator
The reason we won't post his name on this board is because someone has a contact that knew "the boy" and the promised this person they wouldn't post the name, as the contact was also promised not to give the name. So it's not us here on the board doing it it's the survivors and the church.
Renowned Death Hag
My concern was for the family he left behind, which has had two tragic untimely deaths since he died and whether they knew of his past or not, I was worried about people bugging them. THIS group I don't fret about; it's the casual random Googler who might stir things up. I wish one of the surviving family members WOULD contact this group, though. We ALL wonder how this character spent the rest of his (hopefully miserable) life.
There is so much tragedy involved in this case: the loss of the children and the nuns, and even the troubled life of our young arsonist. I know I'm the exception here, but I hope he received the help he needed. I've actually ordered "No Disposable Kids" for that very reason.
Recently I made one comment/question on the OLA site and was immediately attacked by two survivors. To avoid a p!ssing contest, came to this forum and quickly found the answer to my question. Thank you for that. After just reading TSWTA, I have a lot of questions... What are the odds that on day of fire, a known 11 year old firebug was possibly living across the street from school? Did the neighborhood boys know this kid? Did the 5th grade suspect know the 11 year old firebug? One question leads to another.
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