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Thread: Station Nightclub fire in West Warwick, Rhode Island 2

  1. #1101
    i AM NOT SURE WHY I AM DRAWN TO THE SNF "BEFORE THE FIRE" VIDEO ON YOUTUBE THAT IS SET TO AN UPBEAT TUNE OF THE DALLAS SOAP OPERA OPENING THEME...BUT I DO HAVE A FEW QUESTIONS WHICH I AM NOT SURE IF THEY WERE ANSWERED IN THIS THREAD OR THE FIRST SNF THREAD BUUUUT I WILL SEE IF ANYONE CAN ANSWER...


    BUT WAS THE GUY/GIRL SMILING AT 0:56 IDENTIFIED...OR THE GUY AT 1:03...OR THE GUY THAT YOU CATCH AT A GLIMPSE AT 1:05/1:06 IN RIGHT HAND CORNER...OR THE GIRL IN THE RIGHT AT 1:09...OR THE OTHER GIRL AT 1:10/1:11 IN SAME RIGHT HAND CORNER...OR GUY AT 1:19/1:20 WITH GLASSES...AND DID THEY SURVIVE? THIS HAS BEEN PLAGGING MY BRAIN AS I LOVE THIS VIDEO AND AM HAPPY/SAD AT PEOPLE HAVING A GOOD TIME AND KNOWING WHAT COMES ONLY MINUTES LATER...SOME I CAN ACTUALLY IDENTIFY AS I AGREE WITH PREVIOUS IDENTIFICATIONS BASED ON WHAT I HAVE SEEN/HAVE SAW...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wWktCkulV0

  2. #1102
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    There was a debate earlier in the thread about the person at 1:05-1:06 giving the thumbs up. Someone else thought it was Kevin Washburn. I thought it was Tina "Blackie" Ayer. That person is also shown at 1:00-1:01. As the camera approaches, she or he has very long, dark (black for "Blackie?") hair that goes well below the shoulders. The camera angle does not show how far the hair continues. The resolution is poor, but it looks like there is an indent in the top of the hair from one of those U-shaped headbands. It's common for women to control their long hair with those devices, but not for men. Men either tie up long hair into a ponytail or let it freely fall.

  3. #1103
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    You guys are sending me back to the pre-show pronto. But I have some unfinished Barylick biz first.


    Okay, there are three more things I want Barylick to consider if he ever updates "Killer Show."

    1.) Please give Brian Butler credit for kicking out the small panel at the atrium/greenhouse. We actually see it save lives--and yet his deed goes entirely unmentioned in the book.

    2.) A big deal is made out of the fact that State Fire Marshall Owen's nephew was at The Station that night. He's said to have been taken to Rhode Island Hospital, but he's never ever identified. Name please? (I think it's Christopher Nowicki.)

    3.) According to Barylick: "...the inward-opening [stage] door, while a repeated fire code violation, played no part in the outcome; it is seen on the Butler video wide open during the entire event."

    No, it is seen wide open from the 5:00 minute mark on. And that's far from the entire event. Walter Castle barely survived while wrestling with that door earlier. It's wide open at 5:00 because Castle busted the hinges. Walter Castle's Grand Jury testimony is pretty intense. (side note: wonder who dropped the square-shaped tambourine seen on the ground?)

  4. #1104
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    Where's Lt. Frank, the Dexter of photo I.D.ers?

    0:56 - we're seeing a line of people standing in the slightly elevated area to the left of the stage. Unknown guy>Richard DelSanto>Cathy Carignan>probably Lisa Kelly (D)>unknown guy>Ray Beauchaine (in blue).

    0:57 - probably Bonnie Hamelin (D) (above blue jacket; upper left corner). You have to pause it at the very instant Tracy King begins his bar journey.

    1:03 - Tracy K. approaches William Cartwright (D) (left) and Kevin Washburn (D) (right). Then to mugging, smoking James Dufresne. (Lt. Frank gave us a current photo of him in the last few pages.)

    1:05/1:06 - Could be Washburn again with the harsh lighting distorting him some. But I agree with RLady that it's more likely a female, and quite possibly Tina Ayer.

    1:07 - That's Christopher Travis in the orange-striped Harley D. jacket. He'll be using it to filter his air-intake soon.

    1:09 - ??

    1:10/1:11 - ?

    1:19/1:20 - ?
    Last edited by billoween; 06-25-2019 at 04:50 PM.

  5. #1105
    Quote Originally Posted by RodentLady View Post
    There was a debate earlier in the thread about the person at 1:05-1:06 giving the thumbs up. Someone else thought it was Kevin Washburn. I thought it was Tina "Blackie" Ayer. That person is also shown at 1:00-1:01. As the camera approaches, she or he has very long, dark (black for "Blackie?") hair that goes well below the shoulders. The camera angle does not show how far the hair continues. The resolution is poor, but it looks like there is an indent in the top of the hair from one of those U-shaped headbands. It's common for women to control their long hair with those devices, but not for men. Men either tie up long hair into a ponytail or let it freely fall.

    in which video??


    and i wonder who is guy in classes at 1:19 in the before video as well...
    Last edited by bustakita; 06-06-2019 at 05:54 AM.

  6. #1106
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    The video you linked to in post #1101.

  7. #1107
    Quote Originally Posted by RodentLady View Post
    The video you linked to in post #1101.


    gotcha. I need try to go back and look at all the identifications that were made...maybe one day we can have a thread with all screenshots/identifications all in one place as I have been trying to work on...they need to have their stories told for real for real...

    we need a revamped link to the first SNF thread...the older one is obsolete now...
    Last edited by bustakita; 06-07-2019 at 03:39 PM.

  8. #1108
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    Hi all - As far as ID-ing people goes, I find that close reading of the witness statements really pays off. Not only do patrons detail where they were; some have even sketched out their escape routes on maps of The Station.

    Also, this testimony helps create a time-line to figure out what is going on "off-camera." Example: Thanks to witness testimony, we know that if Butler and camera had done a 180-degree spin while on the stage in the pre-show (facing what is, retrospectively, the saddest cheering rock crowd ever) we would have seen this: Dan Biechele taping down the blue pyro wires running from the drum alcove gerbs to the right rear of the stage AND, at the same time, talking with Jeff Derderian about the balance owed to the band for the night.

    # # #


    I got talking with George Kulz of Warwick at the Memorial on the last anniversary of the fire. He lost his son, Michael, 16 years to the day.
    It was around 11 pm, and at least a dozen folks were waiting for the 11:07 pm moment while Hollywood-perfect snowflakes floated down. I tried to give George his own space, but he seemed eager to talk about Michael. Two things stood out:

    1.) Michael's unique look, with the black bandana and all, came from him developing alopecia, an auto-immune disorder of the hair follicles that can occur at any age. He was shy about being bald in his 20's. Your eyebrows and eyelashes go too.

    2.) George had insisted on seeing Michael's body; he just really needed to know for sure, he said. He went alone and said he left knowing it really was Michael. He said he could tell that the ME had taken an impression of his teeth.

    The last image of Michael Kulz was in BB's video. His brother, George Jr. spotted him. He's in the middle of the crowd, atrium side. You can see him just start to turn towards the front door.

  9. #1109
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    Quiet here. Good time for a list.

    --BY THE NUMBERS--

    1.) The 15-second pyro burst that burned down The Station, killing 100 and severely injuring many more, cost about $56. ($12.80 per gerb x 4 + $1.10 per electric match x 4=$55.60.)

    2.) It's darned mathematically close to say that the fire killed 2 out of every 9 people in the club.

    3.) West Warwick firefighter Aaron Perkins drove the first fire truck into The Station's parking lot at about 11:14. I bet his heart was racing; he was only 28 and had been a fireman for 4 months.

    4.) The cash drawer from Julie Mellini's register at the back bar, which was found stashed in the snow behind the club, contained $1,233.

    5.) Some 3 miles from The Station site is an "attraction" called "Factory of Terror Haunted House." Something kind of sad and redundant about that being so near by.
    Last edited by billoween; 07-03-2019 at 12:49 PM. Reason: corrected factual error

  10. #1110
    Quote Originally Posted by billoween View Post
    Hi all - As far as ID-ing people goes, I find that close reading of the witness statements really pays off. Not only do patrons detail where they were; some have even sketched out their escape routes on maps of The Station.

    Also, this testimony helps create a time-line to figure out what is going on "off-camera." Example: Thanks to witness testimony, we know that if Butler and camera had done a 180-degree spin while on the stage in the pre-show (facing what is, retrospectively, the saddest cheering rock crowd ever) we would have seen this: Dan Biechele taping down the blue pyro wires running from the drum alcove gerbs to the right rear of the stage AND, at the same time, talking with Jeff Derderian about the balance owed to the band for the night.

    # # #


    I got talking with George Kulz of Warwick at the Memorial on the last anniversary of the fire. He lost his son, Michael, 16 years to the day.
    It was around 11 pm, and at least a dozen folks were waiting for the 11:07 pm moment while Hollywood-perfect snowflakes floated down. I tried to give George his own space, but he seemed eager to talk about Michael. Two things stood out:

    1.) Michael's unique look, with the black bandana and all, came from him developing alopecia, an auto-immune disorder of the hair follicles that can occur at any age. He was shy about being bald in his 20's. Your eyebrows and eyelashes go too.

    2.) George had insisted on seeing Michael's body; he just really needed to know for sure, he said. He went alone and said he left knowing it really was Michael. He said he could tell that the ME had taken an impression of his teeth.

    The last image of Michael Kulz was in BB's video. His brother, George Jr. spotted him. He's in the middle of the crowd, atrium side. You can see him just start to turn towards the front door.

    do we have a time-stamp as to when this occurred. You know, honestly as sad as this event truly is and unfolded on camera, I have come to love you guys and how much care and consideration you have for the people involved in this tragedy...i also have to say that also that this all did happen on camera, and there are photos as well...and we saw people having a great time but also some of them were having the last time of their lives...i always wish i could jump into the video before it got really bad and tell them all to run and save themselves...

    Quote Originally Posted by billoween View Post
    Quiet here. Good time for a list.

    --BY THE NUMBERS--

    1.) The 15-second pyro burst that burned down The Station, killing 100 and severely injuring many more, cost about $42. ($12.80 per gerb x 3 + $1.10 per electric match x 3=$41.70.)

    2.) It's darned mathematically close to say that the fire killed 2 out of every 9 people in the club.

    3.) West Warwick firefighter Aaron Perkins drove the first fire truck into The Station's parking lot at about 11:14. I bet his heart was racing; he was only 28 and had been a fireman for 4 months.

    4.) The cash drawer from Julie Mellini's register at the back bar, which was found stashed in the snow behind the club, contained $1,233.

    5.) Some 3 miles from The Station site is an "attraction" called "Factory of Terror Haunted House." Something kind of sad and redundant about that being so near by.
    wow thats not cool they have this attraction site so close...

  11. #1111
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    Quote Originally Posted by bustakita View Post
    do we have a time-stamp as to when this occurred. You know, honestly as sad as this event truly is and unfolded on camera, I have come to love you guys and how much care and consideration you have for the people involved in this tragedy...i also have to say that also that this all did happen on camera, and there are photos as well...and we saw people having a great time but also some of them were having the last time of their lives...i always wish i could jump into the video before it got really bad and tell them all to run and save themselves...



    wow thats not cool they have this attraction site so close...


    Kulz's brother didn't provide an exact time on the Butler footage, but if I recall correctly, LLC, eons ago, provided a screen shot, and I think he was the guy in the black stocking cap in the right center of the screen between :55 and :59. Just before and during Ken Mariorenzi's forehead.

    My fantasy is to rip that mic out of Russell's hand and in 10 seconds tell everyone about every possible exit from that place, with lots of emphasis on the stage and kitchen exits.


    -----Had the good fortune to run into Debra Wagner and her husband recently. (I recognized her thanks to The Station web series.) She told me that she and her friend--the merchandise-hawking Linda Fisher--escaped via the atrium window that ran North-South, right next to the steps by the entrance.

    This we knew, right?
    But Debra did add something: she said that that particular window wasn't the hard-to-break plexiglass, but instead, was regular breakable glass. This, she said, was all because of a car accident well before the fire that had resulted in the window being damaged but replaced with real glass.


    So, I found this: On 6-2-2001, a Guy Waterman of Coventry (a paraplegic) had a problem with his '87 Monte Carlo's hand controls and drove "through the front of the building," according to the police report.

    So does that mean that Guy Waterman--who died in December of 2017 at age 52--was an accidental hero? Because, of the 20+ people who escaped the atrium, we know now that the majority came through that north-south opening. Also, was this some rare instance when the cheapness of the Derderian's inadvertently--but fortuitiously--saved lives?

    -----But then again keep in mind that the whole reason for the bus to park 5-7 ft. from the atrium windows had Derderian money concerns at it's core. Touring buses with bands living on board ran their compressors a lot. And by using The Station itself as a sound barrier, noise complaints from the neighbors behind would be fewer and less likely to end up threatening their liquor license and of course, ultimately, their income.
    Last edited by billoween; 07-03-2019 at 12:51 PM. Reason: clarity

  12. #1112
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    Fixed recent post of mine about the cost of Great White's opening pyro salvo. There were 4 gerbs used; not three. It's plain to see on the video that 2 gerbs--not 1--were shot vertically. Makes the cost about $56; not $42.

  13. #1113
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    Quote Originally Posted by RodentLady View Post
    There was a debate earlier in the thread about the person at 1:05-1:06 giving the thumbs up. Someone else thought it was Kevin Washburn. I thought it was Tina "Blackie" Ayer. That person is also shown at 1:00-1:01. As the camera approaches, she or he has very long, dark (black for "Blackie?") hair that goes well below the shoulders. The camera angle does not show how far the hair continues. The resolution is poor, but it looks like there is an indent in the top of the hair from one of those U-shaped headbands. It's common for women to control their long hair with those devices, but not for men. Men either tie up long hair into a ponytail or let it freely fall.
    I'm actually the one who id'd Kevin Washburn here... I see that there are 2 people you're talking about. It looks like Tina Ayers behind Washburn and Cartright, and she is looking directly at the camera wearing a white headband. TinaA.png

    Kevin is seen talking to William Cartright as Tracy King walks up and begins to talk to them... and he's wearing a blue shirt and black (leather?) vest. His hair was very long and he wasn't very tall, as you can see in the footage. WashburnTalking.png

    He gives the thumbs up and says "Yeaaahhhh!" right before the camera pans away. WashburnThumbsUp.png

    Hope this helps!

  14. #1114
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    Thanks, CommanderAmander.

    Still looks like Tina to me. That nose!

    https://servimg.com/view/19465806/85

    https://servimg.com/view/19465806/84

  15. #1115
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    Hi, its been a while since i was here. Just a quick question. The preshow video on Youtube, is it gone? I cant find it

  16. #1116
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    Lyrica - Well where have you been for so long? Welcome back.

    I went to Youtube and found the pre-show to be the 17th clip offered. Of course, it may be one of those somewhat edited versions (like no 20 seconds of Kevin Beese pouring the foamy beer). But you can also find it (very complete) all over the place on Google Drive (again, bless you Dion). It's under "Video," and in "Contents Not..." So don't give up looking.

    Whenever I see Kevin Washburn now I think of what his mother, Rina, told a reporter: that Kevin was very unlucky. He'd been hit by a truck some eight years earlier. And that he'd been warned by a psychic that he'd never see his 31st birthday. He didn't. He was only 30, but always appears older than that to me.

    Okay, here's something I've never seen brought up here: If you go to Barylick and look at the photograph of the slightly charred set list recovered from Dan Biechele's belongings, you see "SAVE" at number 6. That is short for "Save Your Love," a Great White song that Rick Sanetti says he'd borrowed some lyrics from for an early love note to his then girlfriend, Patty. Rick had asked Dan Biechele to have Jack Russell dedicate it to his wife.

    Patty, now Patricia Sanetti, left The Station before the fire. Rick Sanetti said, "My wife had left at 5 minutes to 11:00 to kick off a [computer] program for a satellite location at my home for Fidelity Investments and then [planned] to return while the systems ran overnight." She'd also announced that she was going to bring her camera back with her.

    I guess that in an alternative and kinder universe, she would have returned to catch "Save Your Love," maybe getting all surprised by Rick's sentimental song dedication. Unfortunately, she returned to see the club totally engulfed and her beloved niece nowhere to be found.

    I've never found another mention of the camera. But if Patty had taken pictures, surely they would have been turned over to investigators and we, here, would have been all over them by now.
    Last edited by billoween; 07-23-2019 at 07:05 PM.

  17. #1117
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    Ok, this may be a silly question, but I was just looking at the patron list again and the column where it shows the location of where someone escaped... what does "DNE" mean next to those who were deceased? Any input would be fantastic. Thanks!
    Last edited by CommanderAmander; 07-24-2019 at 01:51 PM.

  18. #1118
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderAmander View Post
    Ok, this may be a silly question, but I was just looking at the patron list again and the column where it shows the location of where someone escaped... what does "DNE" mean next to those who were deceased? Any input would be fantastic. Thanks!
    DNE=Did Not Exit


    Still quiet here. Okay then:

    MEMORABLE QUOTES:

    1.) "It shouldn't have happened. The pyros did not have to be there. I'm glad it burned to the ground. I hope they put a memorial there."--Survivor Brian Wilk.

    2.) "I don't know why the choices were made that some of us were allowed to make it and some of us didn't."--Survivor William Long.

    3.) "I don't like talking about it because I don't like remembering it happened."--Survivor Melissa Stephenson.

    4.) "I walked around the parking lot in a daze. I still didn't think I was alive."--Survivor Erin Whalen.

    5.) "I remember almost everything, unfortunately."--Survivor Victoria Potvin-Eagan.

    6.) "It might sound childish or corny, but everything has changed in my life now. The world as I knew it is over."--Survivor and Fathead vocalist Tom Conte.

    7.) "All we came to do was see a show."--Kevin Dunn's (D) last words to his pal and survivor John Gibbs.

    8.) "Oh Man! This'll be on the news tonight!"--Survivor Brian O'Donnell comment to Skott Greene (D) at the beginning of the fire.

    9.) "I didn't think I was seeing what I was seeing."--Survivor and WHJY intern Jill Malinowski.

    10.) "You're not going to believe what you're going to see. I want you to get out of here."--Survivor Steve Burgess--and off-duty Cranston firefighter--to his date, Jennifer Stocks.

    11.) "...this is becoming more of a reality to us, that it really did happen."--Survivor Nicole Conant.

    12.) "If I had to choose one word to describe it, I would describe it as mayhem...There was just serious injury every few feet."--West Warwick detective Gary Appolonia.

    13.) "It's a reminder that I lived."--Survivor Stephen Bruno explaining why he wore his hospital bracelet for so long.

    14.) "It was like somebody [took] the leash off the dogs."--Survivor Chris Costa on the crowd's panic.

    15.) "It was the worst thing ever that you could ever even imagine ever."--Survivor Kerrie Amato.

  19. #1119
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    I was rereading Barylick's Killer Show and noticed something I had overlooked before. Chapter 7 mentions that John Peiczarek (his name is misspelled Pieczarek in the book) did a fire inspection at The Station in November 2000. According to the book the flammable egg crate foam was put on the walls in July 2000. So apparently two different fire inspectors (the other being Denis Larocque) failed to report the flammable egg crate foam on the walls of The Station. And I found documentation on the Google Drive that supports this assertion.


    On page 1 of a document called Foam Invoices.pdf.pdf is an American Foam Corporation invoice documenting the sale of 25 blocks of egg crate foam to The Station on 6/27/00. The egg crate foam was likely put on the walls of The Station shortly thereafter. This document is at the link below:
    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...G1HeG91QnJRV1k


    On page 66 of a document called 4.PDF is the report of John Peiczarek's fire inspection at The Station on 11/21/00. The report does not mention the egg crate foam. This document is at the link below:
    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...UVGRHRNVE40QzQ

    Edited to add: On page 3 of a document called 3.PDF is the report of Denis Larocque's fire inspection at The Station on 11/20/02. This document is at the link below:
    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...UVGRHRNVE40QzQ
    Last edited by wineandkerosene; 07-24-2019 at 05:11 PM.

  20. #1120
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    Quote Originally Posted by wineandkerosene View Post
    I was rereading Barylick's Killer Show and noticed something I had overlooked before. Chapter 7 mentions that John Peiczarek (his name is misspelled Pieczarek in the book) did a fire inspection at The Station in November 2000. According to the book the flammable egg crate foam was put on the walls in July 2000. So apparently two different fire inspectors (the other being Denis Larocque) failed to report the flammable egg crate foam on the walls of The Station. And I found documentation on the Google Drive that supports this assertion.


    On page 1 of a document called Foam Invoices.pdf.pdf is an American Foam Corporation invoice documenting the sale of 25 blocks of egg crate foam to The Station on 6/27/00. The egg crate foam was likely put on the walls of The Station shortly thereafter. This document is at the link below:
    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...G1HeG91QnJRV1k


    On page 66 of a document called 4.PDF is the report of John Peiczarek's fire inspection at The Station on 11/21/00. The report does not mention the egg crate foam. This document is at the link below:
    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...UVGRHRNVE40QzQ

    Edited to add: On page 3 of a document called 3.PDF is the report of Denis Larocque's fire inspection at The Station on 11/20/02. This document is at the link below:
    https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...UVGRHRNVE40QzQ
    As a native Rhode Islander, I can tell you that it's a VERY small state... and I don't mean just technically small. Everyone knows everyone. Local government is very corrupt with lots of "good old boys". It's all in who you know... and in my opinion, the fact that the Fire Inspectors "failed" to report the findings of clearly flammable egg crate foam is just another example of that. SO many people dropped the ball leading up to the tragedy, and I truly feel that the fire inspectors should have been held accountable for basically looking the other way.

    Also, I was just reading the witness statement of John Gibbs (who went with victim Kevin Dunn that night). He very clearly says that security was blocking the stage exit that night. They (ahem, Scott Viereira) should have been held accountable for their actions as well.

    Lots of shadiness there, friends.

  21. #1121
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    Commander, please combine posts 1120 and 1121 it is against the rules to post back to back you must wait 30mins in between posts before making a new one. You have been here long enough to know this.


    Here is a link to The Station part one thread
    https://www.findadeathforum.com/show...k-Rhode-Island



    https://www.findagrave.com/virtual-c...=1#sr-12450729 Link to the Victims with pictures

    Last edited by pkstracy; 07-25-2019 at 12:57 PM.
    Do no harm, But take no crap.

  22. #1122
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    Jeez, sorry... I hardly ever post so I'm not up to par on the rules. I just deleted my first one.

  23. #1123
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    Now you do
    Do no harm, But take no crap.

  24. #1124
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    Quote Originally Posted by CommanderAmander View Post
    Jeez, sorry... I hardly ever post so I'm not up to par on the rules. I just deleted my first one.
    You are asked to read the rules when you register. It's up to you to know them.

  25. #1125
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    Thanks Wine man - nice to see that you're still alive and kicking and investigating.


    Hey, ever wondered what Brian Butler was up to earlier that Thursday?

    On 2-20-2003, WPRI-TV videographer Brian Butler was working his usual shift of 3:00 pm to 11:30 pm. Rebecca Johnson, the Assignment Desk Manager, had him plenty busy all day.

    First, Butler was to deliver a "live truck" to a Broad Street location in Providence for use by a reporter; yes, our own Jeff Derderian, who needed it for a live broadcast involving a sting at an Asian brothel. After Butler had raised the truck's "mast," Derderian said to him, "You know you're coming to my club tonight, right?"

    Then Butler was sent off--now in the WPRI SUV Derderian had been using--to cover a nearby "pedestrian hit."

    Next, he was sent to get footage of a local chess club.

    Then he covered the opening of a play in downtown Providence.

    After which he was assigned to what Rebecca Johnson called "this thing in Cranston." That turned out to be the story of a father who said that his sick son was improving because--the man claimed--his prayers to 9/11 hero Father Michael Judge were being answered.

    Finally...Butler was supposed to be at The Station at 10:00 pm. He figures he got there between 10:35 and 10:40. And he says he didn't have a clue as to why he was there.

    Butler to Grand Jury: "When I went in there I did not know what this video was going to be used for in anyway--for anything. I [just] knew not to identify The Station Nightclub."

    Okay, file this under "Brian Butler's Very Surreal Day," huh?
    I swear, it was like there was a tear in the very fabric of the universe for a split second that day which made everything go weird.

  26. #1126
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    Q: How could Daniel Biechele be so confident that shooting off the four "sparklers" inside The Station wouldn't be a problem?

    A: Probably because he'd already set off the exact same pyro (15 x 15 silver stage gerbs) at The Station for a W.A.S.P. show in March 2000. (He was that band's road manager.) In his statement, Biechele recalled, "The gerbs . . . were spraying off the [same] wall that caught fire at The Great White show."

    Another gerb at that show was attached to a holder in the lead singer's cod piece. That one sprayed forward and up.

    "There were no problems involving pyro on the W.A.S.P. show," according to Biechele. "I have personally used these gerbs over a hundred times in various venues across the world without any problems...They were used in Russell's in Bangor, Maine--two nights prior to the show at The Station--which is a venue with an 8-foot ceiling over the stage, without any problems."

    But, of course, come 2-20-03, and Biechele wasn't aware, evidentally, that those same walls the gerbs had been hitting off of 3 years earlier at The Station were different now. And the black foam glued to all the stage walls now was, unfortunately, petroleum-based.

  27. #1127
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    I have often wondered how everyone affected by the SNF would live with the embarrassment if the deadly fire had been sparked by a codpiece that ejaculated flames. It's too absurd to fathom.

  28. #1128
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    RLady--that might be the funniest sentence ever uttered on this thread. And I like how you've OFTEN wondered about this.

  29. #1129
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    found this while doing research first thought I had was who are they bringing out. https://www.denverpost.com/2018/02/2...-rhode-island/
    Do no harm, But take no crap.

  30. #1130
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    This site always seems so large to me looking at these photos. But having been there it is really quite small compared to what my mind envisioned.
    "When you help someone up a hill, you get that much closer to the top yourself."
    -Anonymous

  31. #1131
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    Hi all --

    So, we've all seen Shamus Horan working the bar windows to rescue one after another club-goer, right? (He so resembles one of those WHJY workers we see clustered under the TV in the main bar during Tracy King's walk-through--but that's actually Steve Scarpetti--that that became a point of confusion/controversy way earlier in this thread.)

    Well, I had a Eureka moment recently when I realized that Shamus can be easily seen hiding in plain sight in Butler's unedited pre-show footage. It comes at 1:58-1:59, when the gal in red does her the-light's-too-bright act. I contend that the tall guy to her left is Shamus Horan.

    If you read all the pertainent witness statements and watch the videos closely, I think you'll agree.

    He's the right age; he's in the right location waiting for Great White; he's with a group of friends that matches all descriptions given; he's got the right cap; he's got the same white-shirt-under-jersey look; he's got the right height and build, as well. Plus--and this is a big plus--he very much resembles pictures of present-day Shamus which appear on various social media.

    So check out the Butler pre-show, and when he makes that funny little gesture to Butler, pause on his hands. Because in about 15 minutes those hands will be cut and burned from having saved as many as 9 lives. Imagine that....

    BS-My hunch here would then make the woman in red either Kristy Stone (now Shamus's wife) or possibly Carissa DeGregorio (now Jason Moone's wife).
    Last edited by billoween; 08-24-2019 at 01:12 PM.

  32. #1132
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    September greetings my quiet ones.


    Got to talk again with survivor (and rescuer) Ken Mariorenzi in late August. Nice guy. He was on a break from dealing craps at Foxwoods.

    Since Ken is the person most directly behind cameraman Brian Butler, I had to ask him the 22 million dollar question: Did you feel like Butler slowed or impeded you in any way?

    Well--Ken said no, without hesitancy. He explained that at that point, progress forward had slowed for everyone. And it makes sense that with the front door routes getting more clogged each second, baby steps became sort of mandatory; too many of the people in front of these folks like Ken Mariorenzi were encountering serious obstacles. These included:

    1.) The 33" pinch point at the ticket booth.

    2.) The forced merge with those patrons pouring into the hallway from the horseshoe bar. (Picture a "Y" shape.)

    3.) And, the obstacle of the mid-hallway door which suddenly, again, pinches the front exit route.


    So, if you were exiting a ways behind Butler or were unfamiliar with the club's layout, Yeah--you might feel certain that the cameraman had slowed you down. And remember, too, that Brian Butler was something like 6'-2", was wearing a winter jacket, and had a 35 lb. camera on his shoulder. But it does sound like he was moving with the flow of traffic, at least.

  33. #1133
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    Geez, I spent the last two months focused on my annual front-yard Halloween show, only to come back here and find that my 9-8-19 post is still the last one. Really? There's so much information available now . . . come on you lurkers.


    --Hiding in Plain Sight--

    All three pool tables show up quite vividly in some of the "next morning" shots of the wreckage. (I suspect they are crane shots, not helicopter.) Magnification helps, too, but if you persist in looking through the highest-definition photos taken that awful morning (try Getty Images, SF Chronicle, U.S. Dept. of Homeland Security, Yahoo, Pinterest) you can even make out the tables green-ish surfaces.

    Notice, too, that the biggest gap NOT covered by a pool table along the atrium windows is an approximately 8-10 foot space between the atrium's north/south window and the edge of the first pool table. The majority of atrium survivors found their way into that space.

  34. #1134
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    (PART OF) THE HOLY GRAIL: 1 Minute, 48 Seconds of the Matthew Pickett Audiotape

    This barely-seen John Barylick lecture from December of 2018 has been posted on youtube since February of 2019.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUndJG44Moc

    Around 14:42, he plays the Matthew Pickett audiotape. At 15:29, we hear Matthew's voice say, "Joe! Joe, take a picture!"

    The last few minutes of the Q&A at the end were very disappointing. JB called those of us who want to hear the tape "disaster ghouls." As if I have a death fetish and get off on people suffering.
    Last edited by RodentLady; 12-08-2019 at 07:55 PM.

  35. #1135
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    Quote Originally Posted by RodentLady View Post
    (PART OF) THE HOLY GRAIL: 1 Minute, 48 Seconds of the Matthew Pickett Audiotape
    In my opinion this is the biggest news in this Station Nightclub Fire thread since the hard drive was received 5 years ago! RodentLady has made a huge find here!!

    She contacted me about this recently during the time the forum was down. This is the real deal, folks. The first time any part of the Matthew Pickett audio has been made public. Almost 17 years after it was recorded! This is the Butler video synced with the Pickett audio. As he states in Killer Show, Barylick put it together when it was about to go to trial. Some of the defendant groups heard the whole thing to the end, and were moved to settle as a result, rather than let a jury hear it.

    As RL says, we only hear about 2 minutes of the audio. John Barylick talks over it which is unfortunate, but you can hear several significant things. We finally hear Matthew say "Joe! Joe! Take a picture!" We hear screams not heard in the Butler video. And chillingly, we hear who I believe to be Matthew gasping for air just before Barylick shuts it off. I think it's Matthew because of his proximity to the microphone.

    I have already saved the YouTube video and it will eventually go on the Google Drive with all the other artifacts from the case.

    This important new find already answers one question for me: I don't think Jeff Rader had a chance to survive. Barylick said that he could have turned and made it out the stage door. However the new video shows that when Matthew told Joe to take a picture, there was barely any smoke visible coming down from the ceiling. The smoke was much lower in the picture taken of Rader. I think that perhaps Joe took a series of pictures and the last one is of Rader. I estimate that was about 25 seconds later. By that point the stage door escape route was probably already sealed off by flames. The only way that people left that area alive after that was through broken panels in the atrium windows, as Joe Cristina and his camera did.
    Last edited by dionyzus; 12-09-2019 at 06:41 AM.

  36. #1136
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    Hey all! New to the forum, been lurking and reading since Feb or March this year but have been unable to join up due to not having a work/school/ISP email address up until now! It’s nice to finally be able to post

    I first heard about the fire right after it happened, I had just turned 13 less than a week before and was a big fan of hard rock and metal (though I’d never heard of Great White until then), and through the years I’ve always been aware of its existence, though I never really knew any details about it. However, in February this year, through some chain of events that I can’t fully recall, I ended up seeing the video and it was quite shocking, as I’m sure it is for everyone who watches it for the first time. In particular, the speed with which things went wrong was quite stunning. Afterwards I read excerpts from Killer Show, and looked up lots of info about the incident, and ended up finding this forum. Now, 10 months later, here I am.

    Very interesting timing for posting that talk by John Barylick - by coincidence, I also stumbled across it while the forum was down a week ago and was planning on posting it when after I registered. Getting a portion of the Pickett tape is absolutely fascinating, and indeed the entire talk was very informative. Barylick seems to be as talented of a storyteller as he is a lawyer!

    A few points regarding his talk and the Pickett tape…


    1 - I totally agree that the Jeff Rader picture was taken a fair bit later than the “take a picture” line in the video. The smoke ceiling was just starting to come down when Butler turned into the entrance hallway, so that photo was probably snapped a few seconds after that, not at the moment the fire alarm went off when he said it. Plus there's nobody on stage in the photo of Rader, whereas there were people still on stage until just before Butler turned into the entrance hallway in the video.

    Side note: shortly after the fire alarm rings, a guy can be seen snapping several pictures through a camera in the crowd near the Atrium. Could this be Joe Cristina? I don’t think this it is, as this guy is too deep into the crowd and puts down the camera and heads into the Atrium before Butler exits the building, and as we’ve established the Jeff Rader picture was almost certainly taken later than that. But he does start taking shots as soon as Matthew Pickett says “Joe! Take a picture!”, including one picture with a flash (the shot of Jeff Rader has flash as well). Does anyone have any idea who this individual might be? I haven’t seen any photos that would appear to be taken from that location at that time, so unfortunately I have to assume that this individual probably died, but I would love to be proven wrong about that.

    2 - I also agree that that is almost certainly Matthew Pickett gasping for air at the end of the tape. It sounds to me like he might be caught in a pileup somewhere (whether in the entrance hallway or the Atrium) - right around the time Butler gets to the back of the club you can hear thudding sounds, it sounds to me kind of like Pickett and the people around him may have fallen down together. The woman screaming at the end of the tape sure sounds like she’s right by him.

    3 - The tape particularly highlights the lack of urgency that people felt and the fact that people didn’t really grasp how bad it was until it was far too late. While in the video there are a few fans near the front waving frantically at the band just before Butler turns around, in the tape I don’t hear any sort of panic or recognition of the danger whatsoever until the lady yells “Get out! Get out! Fire!” just before the band stops playing. And Pickett’s tone of voice when telling Joe Cristina to take the picture sounds quite casual and calm, and the fact that Jeff Rader was so calm in that final picture, the fact that Joe Cristina bothered to take a picture when things were getting that bad, and the fact that you can see Matthew Pickett’s arm in the picture (i.e. he was still over there rather than well in the process of exiting), suggests that even at that point it wasn’t obvious how bad things were about to get. It seems like most people didn't become acutely aware of how bad the situation was until flashover occurred, unfortunately.

    4 - In the Butler video, right after he kicks out the panel in the Atrium window, there’s a series of awful screams from one woman. I always thought that that was inside the Atrium, as it just takes place immediately after kicking out the panel and is right around the time that flashover would’ve been occurring. However I didn’t hear those screams whatsoever in the Pickett audio, which makes me think perhaps the woman is in fact outside (maybe the “where’s my husband” lady?). Any thoughts on that?

    And as a quick aside, does anyone know if the opening that Ron Barak fell out of is the same panel that Butler kicked out? Always wondered about that…

    5 - Speaking of Brian Butler, it was interesting to hear John Barylick mention that they had “credible evidence” that he had obstructed the exit for 13 seconds and I would be very interested in seeing said evidence. As a (former) professional camera operator myself I do not hold the opinion that Butler blocked people while trying to "get good footage", and I see several things in the video that specifically contradict that theory, in my professional opinion (which I can elaborate on further if people are curious).

    However I’m still very interested in the process of the lawsuit and subsequent settlement. It sounds like a bunch of lawyers sat down with a bunch of other lawyers and insurance people and came to a settlement and that no video production professional was involved in the decision. In my opinion this was probably a bad move on the part of the insurance company, as I’m sure if they’d taken it to trial and had professional cameramen and producers testify they could’ve cleared Butler based on the video (or at least introduced enough doubt and questions into the “he was blocking people to get a good shot” theory to prevent a settlement). That said, I’m glad there was an extra $30 million available for people affected by this tragedy, but it's a bit disappointing that Butler’s name has been tarnished based on something he very likely didn’t do. If I ever get to meet John Barylick, this will definitely be at the top of my list of things to ask/discuss with him.


    Whew, that was a long write-up! I have so many more comments and questions, but I think that's more than enough for one night

  37. #1137
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    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    Hey all! New to the forum
    Great first post subarctican! I have several comments which I've isolated from your post:

    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    Getting a portion of the Pickett tape is absolutely fascinating...
    Yes indeed! I'm making many new conclusions based on hearing the Pickett audio, as well as some of the details in the video which is also clearer than we've ever seen. What an exciting find! For example, I hoped to hear the bouncers turning away patrons saying "Band Only!" but I can't hear anything like that. Even though Pickett was not far from that area, perhaps 30 feet away. But you're right about not hearing the "Where's my husband" lady. That means she is almost certainly outside, not inside.


    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    In particular, the speed with which things went wrong was quite stunning.
    Agreed! I have thought about this fire a lot and what I would do to get out. The best thing I can come up with is I would wait until the bouncers realized it was getting bad and they fled, then I would rush out the stage door. But this happened so fast, I bet there was a window of only 5 to 10 seconds to do that. Even knowing what we know now, it would be a challenge to make it out like that!

    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    ...and indeed the entire talk was very informative. Barylick seems to be as talented of a storyteller as he is a lawyer!
    I completely agree! He may stubbornly cling to a few wrong facts like mixing up Dina DeMaio and Jen Choquette. And I don't appreciate that he thinks we are ghouls! But despite this, I can't deny that he has a masterly command of the facts in this case.

    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    Side note: shortly after the fire alarm rings, a guy can be seen snapping several pictures
    I think I see the photographer you're talking about. But this is compounded by the fire alarm strobes on the walls. It's hard to tell if the flashes are coming from a camera or the strobes.

    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    you can see Matthew Pickett’s arm in the picture
    Actually that's not Matthew, the sweater owner is not IDed. I believe his fiancée told us that he always wore a "taper jacket" with inside pockets for his recording equipment. It was either leather or a jeans jacket, as I recall.

    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    It sounds to me like [Pickett] might be caught in a pileup somewhere
    This is a very interesting possibility. I'll be replaying that audio again and again to try to hear what went on in those critical seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    And as a quick aside, does anyone know if the opening that Ron Barak fell out of is the same panel that Butler kicked out?
    Almost certainly, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by subarctican View Post
    I do not hold the opinion that Butler blocked people while trying to "get good footage", and I see several things in the video that specifically contradict that theory
    I'd definitely like to hear your opinion! Although Barylick did a reconstruction of Butler's progress and it showed he slowed to nearly a stop near the front entranceway, it is my opinion that he simply slowed because those in front of him had also slowed down. Although I'm glad for the victims that Barylick's argument was enough to net them another $30 million, it doesn't mean he was right.

    Again thanks for your post and look forward to hearing more from you!

  38. #1138
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    Isn't the sweater lady Gina Russo, when her and Fred were trying to get out the band door and was told no by Scott "The Prick" V. I know in her book she shows either that picture or the pointing finger picture and says that's her and Fred. As for Brian Butler many came forward and said in no way did he impede anyone getting out and if he were standing still that's because there were people walking out before him.
    Do no harm, But take no crap.

  39. #1139
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    Welcome, subarctican! I am always thrilled when the thread gets an enthusiastic new member of the team!! I look forward to your input.

    About Matthew Pickett's clothing, Killer Show contradicts itself. Page 109: "...tucked in the pocket of his denim jacket."
    Page 111: "...Matthew Pickett's striped sweater sleeve."
    Joe Cristina's witness statement confirms that MP wore the jacket. He also identified himself and MP in the Butler tape!

    Mr. Barylick has changed his tune since the book's release in 2012. On page 113, he described the audio recording as a vital lesson that the world needs to hear: "...a chilling audio glimpse where no one should ever look. But to turn away is to blind ourselves to the terrible reality of what can happen to people when negligence and greed trump concern for safety."

  40. #1140
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    Regarding the jacket, John Barylick in the 90-minute talk said that it was Matthew's when he showed the Jeff Rader picture, which is what I was going by, but I suppose that's another one of the minor details he got wrong. Still highlights the point that there was a lack of urgency from at least a few people even that late into the disaster.

    Speaking of lack of urgency, I had a (false) fire alarm go off in my apartment building one night a couple months after I first saw the Station fire video, and I was amazed at how slowly people evacuated the building. I put on my jeans and coat as quickly as I could and bounded outside, but people very slowly trickled out of the building over the course of about 10 minutes or so, and I even had one couple straight up ask if me if they should leave the building, while we were in the hallway with the alarm blaring.

    That’s one thing I’m very thankful for with this footage, it has forever changed the way I treat fire safety and crowd safety, and I’m sure many other people can say the same thing.


    Regarding the photographer that I mentioned, I've actually watched that part frame-by-frame and indeed there is a flash of light clearly coming from his camera at almost the exact moment the fire alarm starts blaring, though all the following flashes are from the fire alarm strobes near the stage exit. There’s also a flash from a camera in that location a bit earlier, shortly after Butler moves under the low ceiling while the band is still playing, not sure if it’s the same guy but it could be.

    Finally, on to Brian Butler...

    The reasons why I believe he was walking forward with the camera on his shoulder facing back and exited as swiftly as he could and was not stopping to try to get shots…

    1 - The camera is totally passive the moment he leaves the stage area. Notice how it shakes as he repositions himself to leave, and then after that it no longer points at the stage but instead is facing off to the side on a bit of angle, and mostly features a shaky mess of people’s heads and the ceiling - not exactly A-grade material there, certainly not the work of a long-time professional news cameraman who’s stopping in an emergency situation to grab the best footage he can.

    Even after he gets further back and the stage comes into view again, there's absolutely no active operation of the camera - he doesn't reframe his shot, he doesn't adjust the iris (notice how we can clearly see the people's faces in front of him but the stage is too bright for details?), and most of all he doesn't zoom in to the action at all - those news cameras have a wide enough zoom range that he literally could've gotten closeups of the band members' faces from where he was. Certainly he could’ve spent half a second flicking the zoom rocker on the camera to get a slightly better shot. Yet he doesn't do that, or anything else. It’s clear the camera is totally passive, and this is supported by point number two…

    2 - Look at how quickly and smoothly he moves through the crowd up until the pinch point. There’s no way somebody is going to be able to walk backwards through a crowded room in an emergency situation while staring through a viewfinder. The only way he can walk that quickly and efficiently, without stumbling and falling, is by walking forwards which would make him unable to actively use his backward-facing camera. And after he leaves the stage there’s no further repositioning of the camera that would suggest he turned around again at any point. So it’s pretty clear he was walking forward and leaving as quickly as possible.

    3 - As some of you have mentioned, he comes to a stop near the end because of all the people that are now starting to leave and having to go through the pinch point at the entrance hallway one or two at a time. In the video this is actually quite clear, everybody in that area is slowing to a crawl, not just Butler and the people behind him but all the people on the sides. (let’s not forget people from near the second bar area/dartroom/bathrooms/etc who decided to go for the main entrance too, we can’t see them but would be just “behind” the camera, and with how overcrowded the club was there would've been a lot of them too). I really don’t see how he could’ve moved any faster than he did at that point.

    I don’t know anything about the legal system or how the settlement came into effect beyond what Barylick briefly described in his talk. But as someone who’s shot their fair share of live events I can say that, at the absolute bare minimum, the video puts some serious doubt and asks some hard questions about the “he blocked people cause he wanted to get good shots” theory.

    Personally, I think it does more than that and straight up supports the idea that he turned and around and walked out of there along with everybody else, with the camera on his shoulder facing back. But that’s just my opinion.


    Something else I found very interesting regarding Brian Butler was his grand jury testimony. It was easily my favourite and most fascinating testimony that I’ve read so far, simply for his perspective as a news cameraman. A few things that stood out for me from that:

    • He had no idea what he was shooting footage for, he was only told to come to the Station and get “generic bar footage”, as well as a shot of an exit sign and a crowd shot.

    • He felt like he was having an off-night and wasn’t sure he’d gotten much useable footage in the club. He thought he had maybe three or four decent shots at most.

    • He wasn’t intending on filming any of the show itself. He had finished getting his shots when the pre-recorded intro music started playing with the stage lights flashing, and that’s when he decided to get closer to the stage to try to get a couple extra shots (due to the aforementioned off-night he was having). Just imagine, if he had wrapped things up a couple minutes earlier we may never have had any of this infamous footage!

    • Even he didn’t realize the seriousness of the situation until it was out of control, despite being one of the first to leave. When he kicked out the Atrium panel he wondered if they were gonna be questioning him about destroying their property, and it wasn’t until he saw the flames shooting out the back of the club and then heard the screams and glass breaking when he moved toward the front again that he realized how out-of-control the situation was.

  41. #1141
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    Great find by RodentLady!! And nice analysis by Dion, our G. Drive-preserving archivist.

    I'd never before caught the sweater vs denim contradiction in Killer Show. Thanks RL.

    And welcome subarctican! Thanks for reminding us of the different "sound scheme" we get with the Pickett mic-ing, which, yeah, explains the absence of the "Where's My Husband?" plea. By the way, I'm guessing that the big scream starts in reaction to the pileup occuring.

    I think that the picture-taker subarctican is referring to is Adam Florio, and you can see 4 of his 8 pictures (taken with a disposable Fuji) on G. Drive.

    Rarely talked about here, but surprisingly intense when you learn the context from Florio's GJ testimony, are photos 002.jpg (stage in advanced fire with lone figure going to stage door; may be Walter Castle) and 003.jpg (front door seconds after Florio barely gets out bar window).


    When it comes to Barylick and factual errors, well...I'm starting to understand how complicated it gets when a lawyer on one side of a case writes a book, later, on that very same case. See, I've been bugging him about never giving credit to Butler for kicking out that lower window panel. Barylick knows darned well Ron Barak got out that exact same panel (4th window of the 11 east-west atrium windows). But recently he wrote back to me, and I had a little epiphany. He said, "The book describes the facts in the light most favorable to my clients for the purposes of the litigation." Glad I didn't go to law school. Glad he did and got all that money for the families and survivors. Sorry that Butler had to take one "for the team," so to speak.
    Last edited by billoween; 12-11-2019 at 02:31 PM.

  42. #1142
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    Guess who I just spotted in the video? Dan Biechele (inside the club), and everybody's most loathed bouncer, Scott V! They can both be seen just behind the speaker cabinets as Butler pans back from the crowd to the stage right after the pyro stops going.

    Dan Biechele is just barely visible, poking his head up to look at the fire on the stage and then taking off backstage to presumably look for a fire extinguisher (if you can't spot him, look at the white sign on the stage door - his head briefly obstructs it). Scott V does the same thing about a second later and is clearly visible, cigarette in mouth and everything (he pops up at almost exactly the same time as the red "Start Clock" text).

    Don't know if anyone else was already aware of their presence in the video or not, maybe this was already posted somewhere in one of these threads. But I've seen the video so many times and never noticed until now. I recently downloaded it to my computer rather than watching it streaming on youtube/Google Drive, and being able to slow it down and play it frame-by-frame and resize it however I want has been very helpful in spotting little details like that. At the moment I'm trying to sync up the footage to the Daniel Davidson photos, though unfortunately it's quite hard to do due to the stage being too bright for many details in the video (goes back to what I said in my previous post about Butler not zooming in or adjusting his iris).

    A few other interesting things I've noticed (some of these may already be known to you but have only recently come to my attention):

    • Jack Russell appears to be the last person to leave the stage, and would've been going through the stage door right around the same time Brian Butler was entering the entrance hallway. To me, this suggests that Jeff Rader might have actually been able to escape had he turned around immediately, as Jack Russell escaped unharmed (as far as I know) and the infamous Rader picture was likely taken just a few seconds after he escaped, based on the level of the smoke ceiling coming down.

    • Ty Longely was still on stage until the band stopped playing (I seem to recall a testimonial saying he jumped off stage before the band stopped playing but evidently that's not the case). He can be seen when Butler gets to the back of the room and the stage comes into view again. He goes out-of-frame right at the 44 second mark and appears to be in the process of removing his guitar just before that. The next time we see his side of the stage at approximately 49 seconds he is gone.

    • Shortly after Ron Barak escapes, two people can be seen falling out of the Atrium panel facing the front doors. This happens just before Butler moves past the smoke and sees the pileup. They're hard to see, as the camera light is shining on the cloud of smoke, but look carefully at the bottom left corner and you'll see them.

    • The big dazed guy in the red coat walking slowly past the camera can be seen escaping from the bar window closest to the front door a few seconds earlier.

    • Around 6:04 in the video, when Dan Biechele is struggling with the fire hose, we can see who I believe to be Adam Tanzi walking past the camera (same color shirt and necklace as in the entrance hallway and pileup, so pretty sure it's him). Looks like he escaped the pileup with just seconds to spare!

  43. #1143
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    Ty went out with band through the band door went back in to get his guitar and that is when he was overcome by smoke and flames. Yeah I saw Dan and Scott on the video.
    Do no harm, But take no crap.

  44. #1144
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    Quote Originally Posted by pkstracy View Post
    Ty went out with band through the band door went back in to get his guitar
    Did he really? I know that was a pretty widely circulated rumor (along with the DJ going back in to get his equipment), but I was under the impression there wasn't any real credible evidence for that. Indeed it seems a bit unlikely to me, given that he was on the opposite side of the stage from the exit and (as far as I know) none of the band members reported seeing him outside when they got there.

  45. #1145
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    Feb 2018
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    Pks--please cite your proof from any testimony, because I've never read such a thing. William Long's lengthy testimony differs vastly from the scenario you are posting.

    Highly recommended for all of us to keep our facts straight: Reading and re-reading Killer Show; Reading and re-reading and re re-reading all of the AG testimony and witness statements; Reading all the pages of this thread multiple times; and, taking notes on everything. Plus, of course, watching every video available and listening to all the radio clips as well. deal?
    Last edited by pkstracy; 12-12-2019 at 09:54 PM.

  46. #1146
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    Feb 2013
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    Tulsa, OK
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    Quote Originally Posted by billoween View Post
    Highly recommended for all of us to keep our facts straight: Reading and re-reading Killer Show; Reading and re-reading and re re-reading all of the AG testimony and witness statements; Reading all the pages of this thread multiple times; and, taking notes on everything. Plus, of course, watching every video available and listening to all the radio clips as well. deal?
    Do I sense a little sarcasm Bill? Lol! Yes it's hard to keep all the facts straight about this event even for the most obsessed of us! Plus this thread went mostly dormant for at least a year, so I think returning posters are bound to be a little rusty. I'm just glad more of us in our group are talking about this again. I miss those days when there were so many posts!

    With this said, yes I think all the stories about people leaving and then returning inside are likely just rumors. I've heard them about Ty Longley and Jeff Rader too. Sadly I think they never left, and both stayed a bit too long thinking of others before themselves.

  47. #1147
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    I thought it was a source like Rolling Stone magazine that first started the urban legend about Ty and his guitar in the days after the fire. However, I just looked at the pages I cut out of the physical RS magazines from the time of the fire to over 3 years later, and it's not there.

    @subarctican: Do you see a point in the video where Butler turns his camera from forward-facing to backward-facing?

    @billoween: Ah, that is a very telling quote from Barylick! Thanks for sharing!! I'm pleased you reached out to him.

  48. #1148
    Join Date
    Dec 2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by RodentLady View Post
    I thought it was a source like Rolling Stone magazine that first started the urban legend about Ty and his guitar in the days after the fire. However, I just looked at the pages I cut out of the physical RS magazines from the time of the fire to over 3 years later, and it's not there.
    There's a Rolling Stone article from 10 years after the fire that claims that Ty Longely "reportedly died after returning to the burning building to retrieve his guitar", seen here: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/m...-later-243338/

    That article is the only source cited on the Station nightclub fire Wikipedia page in the section where it mentions Ty Longely going back to retrieve his guitar. So maybe that's the source of the rumors? Or maybe they started before that, I don't know. It has a few other inaccuracies as well, including stating that two of the four exits were chained shut and that there were 420 people in the venue and obviously no citation whatsoever for the Ty Longely statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by RodentLady View Post
    @subarctican: Do you see a point in the video where Butler turns his camera from forward-facing to backward-facing?.
    Yeah, he seems to do it right when he moves away from the stage - the camera suddenly points sharply down and to the left and then swings back to the top-right (where we see the column of flame igniting the ceiling) and then faces off toward the Atrium, a bit tilted. In my opinion all that shaking is from him repositioning himself and the camera to leave. Once he started moving away from the stage he had to be facing forward, as he would be unable to walk backward that quickly or smoothly through such a crowded venue.

  49. #1149
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Florida
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    I haven't been on here in a long time. Wow, the Matthew Pickett tape. I remember in the Brian Butler video that he smashes out a window in the atrium. I don't see it on the video that is synced with Matthew Pickett's tape.
    The reason a dog has so many friends is because he wags his tail instead of his tongue.

  50. #1150
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    San Diego CA
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    my source was from someone who was there that night, who asked me not to mention their name as I am writing a book. So I can't , to respect their wishes, cite my source .
    Last edited by pkstracy; 12-13-2019 at 12:45 AM.
    Do no harm, But take no crap.

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