https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEeDiQtsp9U
freebird with johnny singing.
Renowned Death Hag
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...e=gr&GRid=1057
Original tomb at Jacksonville Memory Garden in Orange Park, FL. Some cretinous "fans" broke into the tomb and removed the casket...dropping it on the ground. They also tore open the bag containing Steven Gaines' cremains and scattered them on the ground. Van Zant's remains were moved to Riverside Memorial Park in Jacksonville near his parents' sites; he now rests in an extremely secure underground vault.
Legend is that Ronnie was buried in a Neil Young t~shirt, and allegedly that's what the vandals were trying to find out. Nice.
Jax is my hometown; I passed the Orange Park site every time I would visit my dad in Middleburg.
VCNJ~
Professional Thread-Killer
Death Hag
They never figured out why the plane went down. Seems to have run out of fuel, but why?
This has come up in some other thread before.Originally Posted by QuietlyFly
First off, just to nip one subject in the bud. Contrary to some rumors, Ronnie was not decapitated or hideously disfigured in the crash. According to his father, the only mark he had on him was a mark about the size of a quarter on his head. His casket was closed at the funeral because he had said while alive that he didn't want people gawking at him when he was dead.
I used to lead a Skynyrd tribute band. Back then, some guy approached me online wanting to sell me autopsy photos of Ronnie and Steve. I respectfully declined.
Now to the cause of the crash.
According to the NTSB:
Toxicology reports found no drugs or alcohol in the pilots. It has been alleged that the fuel gauges were known to be unreliable and the flight crew failed to check the tanks manually as was apparently the practice with this aircraft. It was also alleged that the pilots panicked and dumped remaining fuel instead of transferring it from the right engine to the left one. The NTSB report, however, notes that all of the crossfeed and dump valves were in the closed position.The National Transportation Safety Board determined that the probable cause of this accident was fuel exhaustion and total loss of power from both engines due to crew inattention to fuel supply. Contributing to the fuel exhaustion were inadequate flight planning and an engine malfunction of undetermined nature in the right engine which resulted in "torching" and higher-than-normal fuel consumption.
Read the report here:
http://www.airdisaster.com/reports/ntsb/AAR78-06.pdf
Last edited by Rosebud666; 01-21-2013 at 02:54 PM.
Renowned Death Hag
I had read (probably on FAD) that he barely had a scratch on his body, which I guess is rare and remarkable after an plane crash.
I always thought that the plane had some sort of mechanical difficuties that caused it to crash; I'd never heard that it ran out of fuel.
Wow. Just wow.
How negligent can we be even as drivers, let alone as a pilots? Your car runs out of gas it won't necessarily go plunging off the side of the road or a bridge. It's pretty obvious what going to happen when a plane runs out of fuel. Most of those things don't glide well.
Didn't some of the other band members decline to get on board because they felt the plane wasn't in good operating condition?
I saw those guys in concert just two or three weeks before the crash and it was one of the best concerts I've ever seen; they kicked ass.
People down on the floor (I was down on the floor) were firing up joints left and right and passing them around right in front of the cops; who did nothing about it; unheard of in South MS at the time; although I did see a couple of folks get arrested for possession; namely the guy right in front of me at the gate who dropped his ticket; when he bent over to pick it up; a joint fell out of his shirt pocket; they scooped him up by the elbows and away they went.
I was momentarily nervous, fearing that I might drop my ticket when my turn came.
I'm pretty sure that guy missed the show; I did not.
A year or two ago I was checking out at a grocery store in Biloxi, MS and noticed that the cashier ( maybe 18 or 20 years old) was wearing a Skynyrd tee shirt.
I remarked that I had seen them in concert once.
She said, "I've seen them eight times! I'm going to see them tonight at the Coliseum!"
I remarked that I had only seen them once; but it was before the plane crash.
She seemed actually awed; as a true young fan would, I guess.
A faulty hypothesis forming:
A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.
Death Hag Extraordinaire
Good band. Good times. I was in training at Keesler A.F.B. in the early seventies. Saw a lot of good southern rock bands. That boy could sing.
Stay in Drugs. Eat your School. Don't do Vegetables.
Yes, at the end of the day, they crashed because the pilots didn't make certain that there was enough fuel aboard before takeoff.
The emergency descent was chaotic at best. The pilots were slow to respond to air traffic control and never officially declared an emergency. At 6:42 pm they announced they were low on fuel and requested vectors to McComb Airport. It then took them about 90 seconds to confirm the change of course. At 6:45 pm and an altitude of 4500 ft., the pilots first reported ". . . we're out of fuel." When asked to confirm this by ATC, they backpedaled and said "I am sorry, it's just an indication of it." By 6:55 pm they were on the ground. They missed the open field for which they had been aiming by only a few hundred feet. I've never been able to determine whether they overshot it or fell short.
Aerosmith had reportedly considered chartering the same aircraft and rejected it because their staff felt that neither the flight crew nor the plane met their standards.
JoJo Billingsley, one of the background singers known as the Honkettes, was at home sick and planned to join the tour in Baton Rouge. She supposedly had a dream that there was going to be trouble and pleaded with Alan Collins on the telephone not to use the plane. The aircraft's engines had been backfiring and giving them trouble since the start of the tour. Cassie Gaines was reportedly afraid to fly on the plane again and had decided to ride to Baton Rouge on the band's equipment truck, but Ronnie coaxed her into making one last flight and promised that they would find a different plane once they reached Louisiana.
There is an interview on U Tube with a Mr. Gene Odom, who was in the plane crash with Ronnie. He claims that Ronnie was knocked unconscious during the crash and then actually suffocated under the weight of the other victims, who were all piled on top of each other. He also says that Steve Gaines also died of suffocation after being partially crushed by a table, the poor guy.
Gene Odom has said a lot of things about the crash.
Some were true and enlightening, and some were not.
Senior Death Hag
Gun,hug........
Renowned Death Hag
True. Ronnie reportedly died from a piece of filming equipment that came loose and hit him (there were also some people on board who were supposed to film the upcoming "Street Survivors" tour) and he (Ronnie) was killed instantly. Steve Gaines was also killed instantly - but I don't know how. Billy Powell (R.I.P) has said that Cassie bled to death in his arms but former drummer Artimus Pyle says that Cassie didn't expire that way. Who know what to believe??
There's only ONE man...and ONE man only...who could sing that song and it's RONNIE VAN ZANT! Johnny actually declined to sing it for a long time because he knew that it was "Ronnie's song" until Gary Ro$$ington talked him into it one night.
Last edited by Tony Trout; 01-23-2013 at 08:02 AM.
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's Heaven on Earth" - Mark Twain
Have you ever seen Freebird: The Movie? It's mostly live concert footage of the Knebworth gig where Skynyrd opened for the Rolling Stones and pretty much blew them away.
There are also some scenes at the end that show them boarding the plane and taking off on the final flight. Sort of gives you a sense of the proportions inside the cabin. That Convair was neither roomy nor luxurious - more like an oversized motor home with wings. It was incredibly random who died, who was injured, and who walked away pretty much without a scratch.
A lot of things about the crash have sort of passed over into the realm of mythology now.
I had always heard that Ronnie was struck by an unsecured Betamax VCR that they had along so they could watch movies on the plane, but your version sounds more plausible.
One thing Gene Odom does say in one of those YouTube interviews that rang true was that it took rescue workers longer to identify some of the dead and injured because a lot of the guys had been playing poker just before the crash and all had their wallets out on the table. I guess that's just how fast it went.
Years ago, I had the pleasure of exchanging e-mail with Ed King, and he had tons of praise for Steve Gaines. He and Steve were born on exactly the same day. Ever since he found that out, Ed has sort of had the feeling that Steve "took a bullet" for him in a Final Destination kind-of-way.
Renowned Death Hag
Have you ever seen Freebird: The Movie? It's mostly live concert footage of the Knebworth gig where Skynyrd opened for the Rolling Stones and pretty much blew them away.
There are also some scenes at the end that show them boarding the plane and taking off on the final flight. Sort of gives you a sense of the proportions inside the cabin. That Convair was neither roomy nor luxurious - more like an oversized motor home with wings. It was incredibly random who died, who was injured, and who walked away pretty much without a scratch.
A lot of things about the crash have sort of passed over into the realm of mythology now.
I had always heard that Ronnie was struck by an unsecured Betamax VCR that they had along so they could watch movies on the plane, but your version sounds more plausible.
One thing Gene Odom does say in one of those YouTube interviews that rang true was that it took rescue workers longer to identify some of the dead and injured because a lot of the guys had been playing poker just before the crash and all had their wallets out on the table. I guess that's just how fast it went.
Years ago, I had the pleasure of exchanging e-mail with Ed King, and he had tons of praise for Steve Gaines. He and Steve were born on exactly the same day. Ever since he found that out, Ed has sort of had the feeling that Steve "took a bullet" for him in a Final Destination kind-of-way.
Yep, I've seen "Freebird: The Movie" and I have it on DVD along with the "Tribute Tour, 87" (a combo DVD). And, that footage you see of them boarding the plane is not from the final flight. It's from an earlier date.
BTW, I sent ya a friend request.
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's Heaven on Earth" - Mark Twain
you are very correct! not trying to have johnny steal his brothers thunder. i simply posted that video because i love the opening to the song.
we, younger fans have much respect for those fans that have been there to those concerts. its an amazing feeling to know someone who has been to those concerts before the crash.
We never played "Freebird" live - not so much out of respect as because our lead guitarist just really didn't like that song.
We usually played "Coming Home" (from Skynyrd's First and Last) as our final encore.
Renowned Death Hag
Cool! I like that song! What is it with guitar players not liking "Freebird"??? Almost every guitar buddy of mine that I know, absolutely HATES that song.
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's Heaven on Earth" - Mark Twain
Senior Death Hag
I think it's the same reason guitar shop owners hate "Stairway To Heaven" after hearing every rock-god-wannabe come into their store and start noodling away on the intro: overexposure. I saw LS open for the Who in the mid-70s and while they didn't eclipse the headliners, they brought the house down in a way few opening acts ever do. Ronnie had a wine bottle with him from which he chugged liberally during the performance.
Renowned Death Hag
Never got to see them live. Too young. I love "Double Trouble"! From the concert footage I saw, there is something about seeing Ronnie barefoot on stage!
Renowned Death Hag
The opening for the Who took place in 1973...not long after the release of their first album, "Pronounced: Lynyrd Skynyrd", and Ronnie was, sadly, still a heavy drinker during this time.
"Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's Heaven on Earth" - Mark Twain
he wanted to get a feel of the stage. i enjoy seeing those photos of him not wearing his shoes onstage.
Renowned Death Hag
Someone might want to change the thread title from Ronny to Ronnie, so it will be easier to find. It blows my mind that he was only 29 years old. Very talented man.
Renowned Death Hag
With a very talented band.
The night I saw them they were probably playing for maybe 10,000 people or less in a little South MS college town; but they performed as if they were playing for a million.
A faulty hypothesis forming:
A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.
Death Hag
First, just wanted to say 'hi' as I've not posted for ages-been lurking for a long while.
What I'd like to add here is that I have recently read online a post from a family member of the farmer who Artimus found. She says that her Aunt held Steve Gaines as he died in her arms-she was comforting him. Also, her Aunt found Ronniie's hat and she personally got it back to his widow, Judy. Sadly,her Aunt was killed in a car accident about a mile form the plane crash site a couple of years later. (I think the Gaines' mother also died 2 years after the crash, a couple of miles away from the cemetery-not sure whether Mrs Gaines was on her way to or from the cemetery. There really is such a lot of tragedy in and around this band.
Death Hag
I found this picture which I'm pretty sure is Cassie Gaines-after she sadly died.
You can clearly see that Cassie has a cut going across her face. When I saw it, I understood how Billy Powell could have been mistaken for thinking her throat was cut.
She appears to be lying on some sort of white satiny material-it is only a headshot.
Scroll down the page in the link and the picture is on the right.
I wasn't sure if Cassie had an open casket funeral and wondered if this was a shot from that? But I would have expected her eyes to have been closed. (Sorry, we don't have open casket funerals in the UK so I have no knowledge of the procedures etc)
So, I don't think Billy was lying about what he'd remembered-he just mis-remembered.
Apologies if this is not Ms Gaines. RIP.
http://quadsearch.csd.auth.gr/wsearc..._m=931&r_a=932
Death Hag Extraordinaire
Great voice, he could certainly belt out a song.
I am a sick puppy....woof woof!!!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Carping the living shit out of the Diem. - Me!!
http://www.pinterest.com/neilmpenny
Death Hag
I was looking at the Cassie Gaines pictures, and they seem so "modern" to me! I mean, the accident happened 36 years ago, I was expecting the pictures to be grainier... Also, I saw a last photo of Lynyrd Skynyrd somewhere, in front of the plane before boarding, and Cassie clearly wasn't wearing that green t-shirt. And judging by the autopsy pics, I can't clearly think of how she died, she had that big cut on her face but her arms and legs were intact.
BTW, does anyone know how and why these pics have leaked 36 years later? And why only Cassie, not Ronnie or Steve?
Renowned Death Hag
I "heard" Ronnie was lying in the aisle and he skidded into the step leading to the cockpit. That is all I know about it. Did see an early performance of Rossington-Collins band who performed Freebird with a spotlight on a mic stand.
Last edited by midnitelamp; 10-31-2013 at 11:32 AM. Reason: spelin
Knowlege Comes With Deaths release
Heaven's on the pillow,it's Silence competes with Hell
"If you don't go to other peoples' funerals,they won't come to yours."-Yogi Berra
Renowned Death Hag
The crash was not too far from me. I've worked in the general area several times. I need to try getting some pictures.
I am the king of all things stupid!
Death Hag
Was Ronnie the one who had his head smashed by an amp falling over him? I heard one of the guys (not sure if it was Ronnie or Steve) survived only to be crushed by falling baggage when the plane finally stopped.
Senior Death Hag
I read that Ronnie, ironically, was unblemished except for a small gash on his forehead. His lethal injuries were all internal. Ironic since how many plane crash victims are normally mutilated beyond recognition?
Death Hag
That's why I questioned Cassie's injuries. She seems too intact for a plane crash victim.
Renowned Death Hag
Ugggggg! No shit?
Senior Death Hag
Happy B-Day and RIP Kat N Tha' Hat.........
ronnie was thrown from the plane and killed instantly by his head hitting a tree.cassie gaines was cut in her jugular vein which caused her to bleed to death in billy powell's arms.the pilots were killed instantly,dean kilpatrick and steve gaines were also killed on impact.gary rossington broke his arms,legs,and ribs and had internal injuries which kept him in the hospital a month,allan collins was injured but not as serious as most of the other guys,the honkettes,other than cassie were not injured badly either.billy powell had numerous stitches,a concussion and bumps and bruises,and artimus broke almost all of his ribs,but still managed to go and get help for everybody. I love lynyrd skynyrd,but the version out there now,is just a glorified cover band. rossington,ed king and artimus are the only 3 guys left that made recordings with ronnie.ronnie's wife could step in and remove the skynyrd name since the only original member of the band still in the band is rossington,and by a signed contract,there is supposed to always be 2 members in the band that were original members.she has not invoked that clause which tells me she and her daughter get a share of the band's profits from the money they make off touring,record sales and other skynyrd merchandisce.
He was not much of a drinker when the plane crashed and killed him.from what i have read,when his daughter was born he basically become an ocassional social drinker.The opening for the Who took place in 1973...not long after the release of their first album, "Pronounced: Lynyrd Skynyrd", and Ronnie was, sadly, still a heavy drinker during this time.
Death Hag Extraordinaire
The only post crash album I have bought is 'The Last Rebel' and I quite enjoyed it. Couple of good tracks on it, though not as good as the original band.
I am a sick puppy....woof woof!!!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Carping the living shit out of the Diem. - Me!!
http://www.pinterest.com/neilmpenny
Lynyrd Skynyrd was perfect until the plane crash took ronnie cause he was the only member of the band who could not be replaced.I thought the rossington/collins band put out better music than skynyrd part 2 ever did.
Death Hag Extraordinaire
Recommend any albums?
I am a sick puppy....woof woof!!!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Carping the living shit out of the Diem. - Me!!
http://www.pinterest.com/neilmpenny
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