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Thread: Former President Barack Obama

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbelle View Post
    The tax system needs a major overhaul, as does the mindset about taxes. As citizens it is our duty not only to contribute to making our country work, but hold those we elect accountable, and pay attention to where the funds go, and what we can do to improve how we use them.
    I agree in principle with all of this but I think the opportunity starts with the economy.

    The percentage of taxes does not have to change, it is the size of the tax base that must change. You increase the tax base by adding jobs and creating an environment where capitalism and free enterprise thrive. To sustain the standard of living in this country you must create wealth (wealth in a generic term, not wealthy per se). You must create something that people demand. Thats the problem with government. It doesn't create anything, just spends. Obviously much of the expense is necessary but you must have a tax base that is growing at a pace that is faster then the grown or the expenditures of government. How to do that is where the political divide is.

    The irony is that the 47% of Americans who do not pay taxes consume the overwhelming majority of the tax revenue. I would be in total favor of a flat tax for everyone, rich and poor but prosperity in of itself is all of the tax overhaul a nation really needs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    I agree in principle with all of this but I think the opportunity starts with the economy.

    The percentage of taxes does not have to change, it is the size of the tax base that must change. You increase the tax base by adding jobs and creating an environment where capitalism and free enterprise thrive. To sustain the standard of living in this country you must create wealth (wealth in a generic term, not wealthy per se). You must create something that people demand. Thats the problem with government. It doesn't create anything, just spends. Obviously much of the expense is necessary but you must have a tax base that is growing at a pace that is faster then the grown or the expenditures of government. How to do that is where the political divide is.

    The irony is that the 47% of Americans who do not pay taxes consume the overwhelming majority of the tax revenue. I would be in total favor of a flat tax for everyone, rich and poor but prosperity in of itself is all of the tax overhaul a nation really needs.

    Who are these 47% and can you provide a link?

    Thank you

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    I agree. I also think we have more opportunities to create growth than we're aware of. And that again is where education on all levels comes in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shipmatekate View Post
    Who are these 47% and can you provide a link?

    Thank you
    My 47% came from 2009 numbers. More current numbers are either 46.4
    http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxto...households.cfm

    I need to ammend the original statement. I should have said paid no federal income tax. There are other taxes that they do pay ofcourse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    So lets summarize:

    Arizona passes a bill that would allow the state to enforce federal immigration law.

    The Obama administration sues the state to block its implementation sending it to the supreme court

    The supreme court knocks down most of the law but allows the controversial "stop and check" provision

    Before the ink is dry the Obama administration then rescinds the 287(g) agreements which allowed local law enforcement to partner with the federal government in immigration enforcement.

    And for an added touch, set up a hotline to report law enforcement and their potential enforcement of the law under the guise of protecting civil liberties.

    So Arizona recieved a world class smack down for having the audacity to try and protect its own borders.
    That's the tall and short of it.

    B.O. and two other stooges, Eric Witholder and former Arizona governor Janet Napoleonano, have made an example of Arizona for the other states, that being to shut up and do as your told.

    I'm beginning to think that if the Court rules against any consequential part of BOCare Thursday, B.O. will just ignore any decision he doesn't like or change it for the worse.

    B.O. is flexing more and more of those imperial powers that have been in the making in earnest, beginning with CIA Poppy Bush.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    My 47% came from 2009 numbers. More current numbers are either 46.4
    http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxto...households.cfm

    I need to ammend the original statement. I should have said paid no federal income tax. There are other taxes that they do pay ofcourse.

    Thank you! I will be looking at this as soon as I can!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    My 47% came from 2009 numbers. More current numbers are either 46.4
    http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxto...households.cfm

    I need to ammend the original statement. I should have said paid no federal income tax. There are other taxes that they do pay ofcourse.

    Quote from that page

    Last June, my colleague Bob Williams posted a TaxVox article that reported 47 percent of American households paid no federal income tax in 2009. Bob was exactly right, but rarely has a bit of data been so misunderstood, or so misused.
    Let me explain—repeat actually—what this means: About half of taxpayers paid no federal income tax last year. It does not mean they paid no tax at all. Many shelled out Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes. In fact, only 14 percent of Americans didn’t pay either income or payroll taxes. Some paid property taxes and, it is fair to say, just about all of them paid sales taxes of one kind or another. So to say they pay no taxes is flat wrong.

    Whole article here

    http://taxvox.taxpolicycenter.org/2010/4/15/

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    Quote Originally Posted by shipmatekate View Post
    Quote from that page

    Last June, my colleague Bob Williams posted a TaxVox article that reported 47 percent of American households paid no federal income tax in 2009. Bob was exactly right, but rarely has a bit of data been so misunderstood, or so misused.
    Let me explain—repeat actually—what this means: About half of taxpayers paid no federal income tax last year. It does not mean they paid no tax at all. Many shelled out Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes. In fact, only 14 percent of Americans didn’t pay either income or payroll taxes. Some paid property taxes and, it is fair to say, just about all of them paid sales taxes of one kind or another. So to say they pay no taxes is flat wrong.

    Whole article here

    http://taxvox.taxpolicycenter.org/2010/4/15/

    So it APPEARS that he is saying only 14 percent do not pay income or payroll taxes.............

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by shipmatekate View Post
    So it APPEARS that he is saying only 14 percent do not pay income or payroll taxes.............
    Didn't you see where I ammended my original statement to reflect that? I changed it to 47% don't pay income tax but they do other taxes. I still find 47 or 46% an incredibly high number to not pay any federal income tax.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    Didn't you see where I ammended my original statement to reflect that? I changed it to 47% don't pay income tax but they do other taxes. I still find 47 or 46% an incredibly high number to not pay any federal income tax.

    Yes I did see that, however I just found that little tid bit which I thought was interesting. I don't know how he extrapolates 14% and I want to dig in further.
    Just interesting that there seems to be some conflicting info on that page.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shipmatekate View Post
    Yes I did see that, however I just found that little tid bit which I thought was interesting. I don't know how he extrapolates 14% and I want to dig in further.
    Just interesting that there seems to be some conflicting info on that page.
    I didn't spend a whole lot of time there so if you find something off, please post it. The 46% is a number that keeps popping up so I am confident that it is correct but also important to note that it is reflective of one element of taxation (which you pointed out as well), not the whole pie so to speak.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    I didn't spend a whole lot of time there so if you find something off, please post it. The 46% is a number that keeps popping up so I am confident that it is correct but also important to note that it is reflective of one element of taxation (which you pointed out as well), not the whole pie so to speak.
    I want to look at in depth but lately this thing called life......

    Thanks for the link!

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    People need to start hiding from the government. I don't want to give them one, red penny.

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    I suppose you want to drive on roads and drink clean water and have access to a library though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbelle View Post
    I suppose you want to drive on roads and drink clean water and have access to a library though.
    Of course!

    THAT is the kind of attitude that needs to change
    No offense intended but the reality is well, reality.

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    Obamacare

    So tomorrow the supreme court will release its decision on Obamacare. Anyone want to make a prediction? Your prediction doesn't have to necessarily align with your personal views on it just what you think might happen.

    That said, I think the SC will strike down individual mandate yet keep some of the provisions specifically the ones already implemented (dependents till 26 etc..)

    What do you think?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    So tomorrow the supreme court will release its decision on Obamacare. Anyone want to make a prediction? Your prediction doesn't have to necessarily align with your personal views on it just what you think might happen.

    That said, I think the SC will strike down individual mandate yet keep some of the provisions specifically the ones already implemented (dependents till 26 etc..)

    What do you think?
    I think you nailed it!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    So tomorrow the supreme court will release its decision on Obamacare. Anyone want to make a prediction? Your prediction doesn't have to necessarily align with your personal views on it just what you think might happen.

    That said, I think the SC will strike down individual mandate yet keep some of the provisions specifically the ones already implemented (dependents till 26 etc..)

    What do you think?
    I blew that prediction.

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    Shit happens. We can only just guess what that will be here.
    .

    Life goes on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    I blew that prediction.
    Your prediction might have come true if the ultra conservatives weren't so stubborn. From what I read Roberts would have gone with what you proposed but the hard linersdemanded that they throw out the entirety of the law -- the mandate, the consumer protections, the tax cuts, the subsidies, the benefits, everything. If that happened, the validity of the court would have been compromised. They would have looked as broken as Congress is.
    Last edited by JefeStone; 06-29-2012 at 08:43 AM.

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    I had a good loud laugh over FauxNews peeing themselves in excitement when they were reporting that the individual mandate had been overturned !



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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebud666 View Post
    I had a good loud laugh over FauxNews peeing themselves in excitement when they were reporting that the individual mandate had been overturned !
    Show just how Fair And Blanced those assholes are

    I really hope they cease to exist soon

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    What Roberts did actually gave the Republications ammunition for November. Romney raised 4 million over this. 55% of Americans disapprove of Obamacare. Roberts was right. Let the people vote on this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebud666 View Post
    I had a good loud laugh over FauxNews peeing themselves in excitement when they were reporting that the individual mandate had been overturned !
    CNN initially reported the same also: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...thmedia29.html
    Last edited by Bidmor; 06-30-2012 at 10:38 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shipmatekate View Post
    Show just how Fair And Blanced those assholes are

    I really hope they cease to exist soon
    Not going to happen.

    CNN averaged 446,000 total viewers
    MSNBC averaged 689,000 total viewers

    FOX news averaged 1.79 MILLION viewers.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...icle-1.1103267

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    DOJ says it will not pursue any action against Eric Holder after being found in contempt of Congress:
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...tract-furious/

    No surprise here. This is why B.O. invoked executive privilege because he knew his buds at DOJ, who work for Holder, would do nothing about it in order to protect their bosses and in the process, publicly flip the bird to the Terry family, and all Americans.

    Oh sure, the same type of criminal CYA has happened before, from Dumbya on far back as FDR to one degree or another. It's just that as time marches on, so does the shredding of the Constitution bit by bit at the behest of what Ike (one of the exceptions to the norm) referred to as the "military-industrial complex".

    What a week!...a great one for our rulers and a bad one for personal liberties.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bidmor View Post
    Oh sure, the same type of criminal CYA has happened before, from Dumbya on far back as FDR to one degree or another.
    The difference is that Obama ran in part on the fact that he would have "the most transparent administration" ever. And than he invokes executive priviledge to keep congress from the fast and furious papers and protect Eric Holder.

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    What do you expect, though? He's a politician.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seagorath View Post
    People need to start hiding from the government. I don't want to give them one, red penny.
    I know a preacher who felt the same way and the government killed him. Swat team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    Not going to happen.

    CNN averaged 446,000 total viewers
    MSNBC averaged 689,000 total viewers

    FOX news averaged 1.79 MILLION viewers.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/entertain...icle-1.1103267

    Proof-positive that America's full of ignorant, uneducated imbeciles. I mean, look how many viewers "Keeping Up With the Kardashians" has? See what I'm getting at? :P
    Last edited by Jenivere2011; 07-02-2012 at 12:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenivere2011 View Post
    Proof-positive that America's full of ignorant, uneducated imbeciles. I mean, look how many viewers "Keeping Up With the Kardashians" has? See what I'm getting at? :P
    I think the same thing when I see the Obamas going on all the talk and entertainment shows. They said that the reason that they don't go on the regular news show is because nobody watches them. We have Michelle going in the Biggest Loser to promote her anti-obesity program and we have Barack going on Leno and The View.
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    I assumed someone would have commented B.O.'s statement from last week...you know...the one about those who have become rich (rich is now defined as an individual or business that has a gross annual income of $250k or more, which includes most small businesses) through building a business did not do that on their own initiative and ideas...suggesting small and mid-size entrepreneurs owe their success to others and should, therefore, share more of their profits with others..."others" being the collective i.e. the federal government.

    Gee I'm glad Obama cleared that up. I had considered him a socialist but he made me see that I'm just greedy.
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    Is that exactly what he said or are you paraphrasing?
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    Quote Originally Posted by beep View Post
    Is that exactly what he said or are you paraphrasing?
    This article contains B.O.'s entire "you didn't build that" remarks.
    http://www.latimes.com/news/politics...,4148346.story
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    Rush Limbaugh continuosly played the "you didn't build that" comment my whole drive into work. I assumed because it was such a short isolated clip that the show was messing with the context and ofcourse they were. I took it as Obama saying that to mean that someone else built the building you are operating out of and built the roads that bring you customers.

    It is a poor argument in my opinion to persuade the american people that he is right about taxation.

    The thing about Obama is that I do honestly believe that he believes he is going about things the right way, unfortunatley I believe that he is dead wrong and he keeps proving it to the people but they seem to believe what they hear and not what they see.

    He said if we all got behind his economic policies unemployment would not reach 8 percent, yet it has never been below it. Ofcourse that was an estimate given to him by his advisors but they were wrong. Just like they are wrong about Obamacare. It is now estimated that Obamacare will cost 2 trillion more over the next decade than first reported when he "sold it" to the people. Who pays for that? We do through a rationing of care and an increase (big time) in taxes. The only people who will really see any benefit are the ones who get covered through the expansion of medicaid which will approach the middle class. This isn't good for the economy.

    Take all of the emotion and ideology out of it and there is only one tried and true way to have economic prosperity at the level the US once enjoyed. The success and expansion of the private sector through production and demand. The government doesn't give us that, it can only get out of the way.

    Rant over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by coconn04 View Post
    I think the same thing when I see the Obamas going on all the talk and entertainment shows. They said that the reason that they don't go on the regular news show is because nobody watches them. We have Michelle going in the Biggest Loser to promote her anti-obesity program and we have Barack going on Leno and The View.
    This is the age of the internet and the information age. I believe if a president and his wife want to go on shows to promote anti-obesity, or to reach a younger audience and get them involved with the inner-workings of the infrastructure of the American political system, so be it. Why is it so wrong to try to get Americans involved, and for them to show interest in what the people of the U.S. do?

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    Now I see what's going on here... Obama says you didn't build the roads and bridges... and the right-wing turn it around and claim he said you didn't build your business. They're so sneaky.

    This advert is an amazing twist of the truth.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNHeTwoy5vI

    And here we goooooooooooooo!!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efHzVPKWzkk#t=06m19s

    I love American politics.
    Last edited by beep; 07-19-2012 at 11:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beep View Post
    Now I see what's going on here... Obama says you didn't build the roads and bridges... and the right-wing turn it around and claim he said you didn't build your business. They're so sneaky.
    Typical with both parties. That is why it is so important that we all use our brains and recognize it when we hear it. I suppose you could classify me as on of those "right wingers" but when I heard the clip on Limbaughs show I could tell it was designed to lack context. So I searched out a more complete statement and lo and behold.

    Same thing happened a couple of weeks ago with Romney and his "wah wah's sandwiches" comments. Lefties took a 1 minute segment out of a speach and edited it to make Romney sound like he was never in a sandwich shop before.

    Sucks that we the people need to be so vigilant to get to the truth.

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    Departing from the "you didn't build that" subject and in light of mass murder in Colorado, we have this op-ed by Larry Bell on Forbes published July 10th about B.O. and the U.N. Arms Trade Treaty, which the senate will vote on July 27 I believe it is.
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/larrybel...t-of-the-deal/

    B.O. is likely to get his way with the senate treaty vote then look out...we'll be on the bloody road that Britain, Australia, and other nations have already traveled.
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    Yes, please depart from the topic you didn't seem to know much about and threw wild accusations at....

    As for guns, you Americans will always have as much guns and as many bullets your little hearts desire to shoot the living hell out of eachother with. I wouldn't worry about a "bloody road to Britain, Australia."
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    Top 5 Presidential Busts...

    I put this in here because Obama is at the top of the list. Here they are:

    1) Barack Obama
    2) Jummy Carter
    3) James Buchanon
    4) Richard Nixon
    5) Andrew Johnson

    Now be forwarned, this is an opinion piece from the UT San Diego but he does make some compelling points.


    http://web.utsandiego.com/news/2012/...dential-busts/

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    Good find, Pauli, and interesting, considering the source (a California paper) has determined that B.O. sits atop a list of the 5 worst presidents...a sitting president to boot.

    The article indeed presented compelling points for their choices of which I mostly agree with. I tend to cut Andrew Johnson some slack.
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    I feel bad for Carter, granted I was born when Reagan was president, but Carter seems to get a really bad wrap. To me it seems like he's a very kind and genuine person, but just should never have been president?

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    Herbert Hoover not on the short list of worst US Presidents? Hmmm. I'm a little suspicious of any serious discussion of a first term sitting president being considered "worst." His presidency isn't complete. I might be more open to "worst first term of US Presidents." If that were the case, then I could consider the possibility of Obama, and Nixon wouldn't deserve to be on the list.
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    I think Nixons first term wasnt bad at all. He opened talks and trade to China who was run by Chairman Mao ... not an easy person to deal with. It was Nixons 2nd term that was a disaster.

    I think Jimmy Carter is the only President that compares to the Obama term. Carter actually tried to do right, but everything he did backfired and never worked. Just like Obama , he micromanaged too much.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RiotBoots View Post
    I feel bad for Carter, granted I was born when Reagan was president, but Carter seems to get a really bad wrap. To me it seems like he's a very kind and genuine person, but just should never have been president?
    I don't know about Carter being nice? I have a friend that was a college professor while owning a gas station
    during the Carter Presidency.
    During that time period Carter claimed that we had an oil shortage. My Professor friend had students that were from the middle East and they told her that big oil tankers were parked at Middle Eastern docks full of oil while we were in the midst of this big gasoline shortage! At that time American cars were parked in huge long lines to get fuel.
    It was horrible back then!

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/anemi/2450728320/

    http://www.gisdevcafe.com/wp-content...mb-468x367.jpg

  48. #248
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    3,207
    Quote Originally Posted by Forever-27 View Post
    I think Nixons first term wasnt bad at all. He opened talks and trade to China who was run by Chairman Mao ... not an easy person to deal with. It was Nixons 2nd term that was a disaster.

    I think Jimmy Carter is the only President that compares to the Obama term. Carter actually tried to do right, but everything he did backfired and never worked. Just like Obama , he micromanaged too much.
    Didn't Nixon open up our jobs being shipped to China? Or am I wrong?

  49. #249
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    22,478
    Please use the mutiquote button located in posts you wish to quote, instead of posting repeatedly by quoting and then replying to each in single posts.

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    Hit the thing that looks like a cartoon word bubble with a plus sign next to it in each post you'd like to respond to. Then hit the reply to thread button. All selected posts will then show up in one window for you to respond in.

    Not using the multiquote function is considered bad form on forums, makes following the conversation disjointed for the reader and is intimidating to new members - things we very much like to discourage here as threads should be welcoming to read and invite participation by all.
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    Life goes on.

  50. #250
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Concord , California, United States
    Posts
    7,032
    I dont know, Nixon opened up commerace to an otherwise closed communist country. I think the outsoursing started in the mid 80s or late 70s. Long after Nixon left in disgrace.

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