Stephen Hawking: There is no Heaven

[TheMysterian]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...iry_story.html

[Jerseysucks]

Why is it that all brainiacks are atiests?
He'll have an athiests funeral, he'll be a guy who's all dressed up with no place to go.

[Flowergrrl]

If there is a Heaven... I think there are a LOT of people who think they are going, that won't be showing up.

[rucyco2]

If there is a Heaven... I think there are a LOT of people who think they are going, that won't be showing up.

Totally.

[MagnusDippytack]

What happens after death is the ultimate mystery. I know that there are people who died for a few minutes and came back and described something. I would take what they say with a grain of salt. Only someone who had been dead at least a couple of days would have credibility of their experiences after death, but that scenario has never happened.
IMHO the most intelligent atheist in the world and the most holy man in the world do not know what actually happens spiritually after death.

[rucyco2]

What happens after death is the ultimate mystery. I know that there are people who died for a few minutes and came back and described something. I would take what they say with a grain of salt. Only someone who had been dead at least a couple of days would have credibility of their experiences after death, but that scenario has never happened.
IMHO the most intelligent atheist in the world and the most holy man in the world do not know what actually happens spiritually after death.

Well said.

[Paulination]

Why is it that all brainiacks are atiests?

"Brainiacs" don't believe in anything they can't prove. They tend to out think themselves into narrow mindedness. There were people as smart as Stephen Hawkins way before black holes were even a fantasy and if you went to them and spoke about a gravitation whirlpool that eats stars, they too would have thought you were a nut.

[stevesy]

What happens after death is the ultimate mystery. I know that there are people who died for a few minutes and came back and described something. I would take what they say with a grain of salt. Only someone who had been dead at least a couple of days would have credibility of their experiences after death, but that scenario has never happened.
IMHO the most intelligent atheist in the world and the most holy man in the world do not know what actually happens spiritually after death.

I agree plus anyone that has been dead a few days always comes back as a zombie.

[neilmpenny]

Personally, I think after you drop off, the only thing that happens is you become worm food. Remember that eternity of nothing before you were born? It's the same thing for eternity after you're dead. You get 75 years or so and that's it.

[Cettie]

I beg to differ, I had an NDE and know who's who and what's what. I also know there is no hellfire and damnation (my fundaMENTAList nut sister will have a fit over that.) My answer is that I cannot prove by logic that the athiests are wrong, all I can do is sit back and let them experience that for themselves once they get there.

[Nelliebean]

Personally, I think after you drop off, the only thing that happens is you become worm food. Remember that eternity of nothing before you were born? It's the same thing for eternity after you're dead. You get 75 years or so and that's it.

Works for me.

[Aries65]

I agree plus anyone that has been dead a few days always comes back as a zombie.

Such in the case of Jesus...

[Crazy Cat Lady]

I beg to differ, I had an NDE and know who's who and what's what. I also know there is no hellfire and damnation (my fundaMENTAList nut sister will have a fit over that.) My answer is that I cannot prove by logic that the athiests are wrong, all I can do is sit back and let them experience that for themselves once they get there.

How do you explain people who have been clinically dead, but didn't have an NDE?

[neilmpenny]

I beg to differ, I had an NDE and know who's who and what's what. I also know there is no hellfire and damnation (my fundaMENTAList nut sister will have a fit over that.) My answer is that I cannot prove by logic that the athiests are wrong, all I can do is sit back and let them experience that for themselves once they get there.

I suspect near death is just a tad different to actual, permanent, eternal death.

[MagnusDippytack]

Personally, I think after you drop off, the only thing that happens is you become worm food. Remember that eternity of nothing before you were born? It's the same thing for eternity after you're dead. You get 75 years or so and that's it.

That's a good point Neil. I remember nothing before the age of 1 years old. However, I remember nothing of when I was asleep or unconscious in my life except for a few dreams, yet I was alive at those times. I'm not trying to contradict you, I just don't know.

[james1977]

What happens after death is the ultimate mystery. I know that there are people who died for a few minutes and came back and described something. I would take what they say with a grain of salt. Only someone who had been dead at least a couple of days would have credibility of their experiences after death, but that scenario has never happened.
IMHO the most intelligent atheist in the world and the most holy man in the world do not know what actually happens spiritually after death.

Common sense. When we are dead. We are dead. We won't know it. Because we will be dead. What gets me is how does everyone think they are smarter than Hawking, wouldn't we want to listen to what he has to say ?. Rather than some layman who doesn't know what 23 plus 23 is ? Why do you religious people always think that the scientists are wrong? Did you ever think, did you ever consider, that you might be wrong ?

[FannyB1923]

I'm surprised at his point of view. He hasn't had an easy time of it in this life. I would think he'd be hoping for another existence in a healed body.

[neilmpenny]

I'm surprised at his point of view. He hasn't had an easy time of it in this life. I would think he'd be hoping for another existence in a healed body.

Ummmm, I thought it was your spirit that went to heaven?

So, when the resurrection happens, everyone gets a new body? If there has been 20 - 30 billion that have ever lived (up to this point anyway), where do they live? Where does the food come from? Where do the bodies come from? Jobs? Money?

The world population is currently @6.7 billion, growing exponentially every day. My estimate above increases at a rapid rate daily.

Or does everyone float around like Casper the ghost? No body, no house, no Ferrari, no fine dining, no sex........ sounds like an eternity of frustration to me.

I just don't buy it.

[michihunt]

Sometimes people as smart as Hawking get a God complex. They try to use their own logic to try to explain things. Even the smartest person in the world can't comprehend the complexities of our universe. I have faith that there is more to it.

[michihunt]

Common sense. When we are dead. We are dead. We won't know it. Because we will be dead. What gets me is how does everyone think they are smarter than Hawking, wouldn't we want to listen to what he has to say ?. Rather than some layman who doesn't know what 23 plus 23 is ? Why do you religious people always think that the scientists are wrong? Did you ever think, did you ever consider, that you might be wrong ?

I'm not sure what you mean by religious people, because that is a varied and large group, but I do consider myself a Christian. In my opinion, scientists are not 'wrong'. I think a lot of their research is good and has helped mankind. I'm going through nursing school at this time and the science of the body is AMAZING. But just because a Scientist says it's so, doesn't make it so. We've seen many examples of 'scientific' proof that have been unproven, so why wouldn't we consider that scientists, who are only human, are sometimes wrong? I think they are just searching, like all of us, for the truth. I can't fault them for that. But to make a generalized statement that "There is no afterlife" is a bit arrogant.

[havoc]

How do we know he actually said that? His computer could be like HAL 9000 and just screwing with all of us.

.

[Jacksmum]

How do we know he actually said that? His computer could be like HAL 9000 and just screwing with all of us.

.

LOL

[Paulination]

Common sense. When we are dead. We are dead. We won't know it. Because we will be dead. What gets me is how does everyone think they are smarter than Hawking, wouldn't we want to listen to what he has to say ?. Rather than some layman who doesn't know what 23 plus 23 is ? Why do you religious people always think that the scientists are wrong? Did you ever think, did you ever consider, that you might be wrong ?

You say this with such certainty like you have some inside track on the answer. The only thing that is certain is the uncertainty. Stephen Hawkings only knows what has been scientifically available through either discovery or reasonable extrapolation. Like the point I made earlier, every generation has had their "Stephen Hawkings", before we knew what gravity was, black holes, the big bang theory etc....

If you look at the complexity of our existence and really consider what it took to get us here than I would suggest that the existence of something beyond us, involving us is more likely than simply "lights out".

To suggest that people who believe this somehow lack "common sense" or are blinded by religion is a little rude considering your company. Just my opinion.

[Paulination]

So, when the resurrection happens, everyone gets a new body? If there has been 20 - 30 billion that have ever lived (up to this point anyway), where do they live? Where does the food come from? Where do the bodies come from? Jobs? Money?

The world population is currently @6.7 billion, growing exponentially every day. My estimate above increases at a rapid rate daily.

Or does everyone float around like Casper the ghost? No body, no house, no Ferrari, no fine dining, no sex........ sounds like an eternity of frustration to me.

I just don't buy it.

You are trying to use logic based on your experiences as a human being which I understand and would seem quite natural but I think you have to be open to the possibility of a whole different type of existence that would be outside the realm of what you know. Because the imagination doesn't allow for it doesn't mean it isn't there. It doesn't mean that it is either but I feel peace believing so and in that way I give it life.

[Sam]

Why is it OK to bash Christianity on FAD, but if you say anything against Islam WATCH OUT.

[MagnusDippytack]

George Carlin on reincarnation, "For this to be a valid concept, someone is printing up souls."

As far as reincarnation goes, does anyone here think they have memories of a past time that you seem to think you have not imagined? I have some of these, but it may likely be a trick of the mind. I have always found it interesting that most people who claim they have been reincarnated were always kings or queens or some important person and not some diseased sot in medeaval York shoveling human poo into a cart.

[MagnusDippytack]

Why is it OK to bash Christianity on FAD, but if you say anything against Islam WATCH OUT.

Because this forum is private property paid for by someone else and the First Ammendment does not apply here.

[Seagorath]

This is exactly what every "child molesting" atheist on Earth needed to justify their actions. Hawking should have kept his distorted, diseased mouth shut. I'm sure it's easy to feel that way when you are confined to a wheel-chair.

Fuck you, Hawking. That's why it is called FAITH. You either have it or you don't. Those that don't are going to be in a very lonely and dark place as they exit and their brains are dying. Sorry.

[neilmpenny]

Why is it OK to bash Christianity on FAD, but if you say anything against Islam WATCH OUT.

I don't see anyone accusing Christians of being murderers, rapists or terrorists. Any specific examples you care to cite where someone is denigrating Christianity?

[Sam]

Because this forum is private property paid for by someone else and the First Ammendment does not apply here.

I fully understand that, but what applies to Islam should also apply to Christianity here as well.

[Cat_AmmaKittehKat]

I fully understand that, but what applies to Islam should also apply to Christianity here as well.

and athiesm?

[Linnie]

If a belief system comforts someone without harming anyone else, then why deprive them? This is what Hawking doesn't understand, though IMO he's (unfortunately) probably correct. And look at the fact that he has continued to live and think, even though he's an atheist stuck in a shell of a body and a wheelchair for almost 50 years.

Could you put up with it? I doubt I could. A lot of people would advocate his right to suicide LONG before this point, and yet, he still finds a reason to be, as long as he can, and the funds are available to pay for it.

I can get through life without believing in a specfic afterlife, but I never say a word to anyone who does if they are in my face, or if they are suffering a personal loss, if this makes them feel better.

I've observed in my own family that it was easy enough to believe in a Deity and a Heaven in ther first instance of a terrible loss (my brother's accident) but how it evaporated for some of us with the second (my sister's painful cancer death.) One begins to ask why humans think they're so special that they rate more of an afterlife than the animals they consume or use for labor, or insect pests they kill because they're a messy inconvenience.

I would like to believe in a divine justice for all the murders and suffering in this life, because human justice is lacking and its standards too diverse, but there is also too much diversity in human beliefs of justice in an afterlife. There are those who sincerely believe that male terrorists who murder 1000s will earn the eternal services of docile virgins, while women who merely walk or talk with a man will be damned for adultery or fornication.

There are those who believe the 11th-hour conversions of serial killers and other serious criminals will earn them a spot in heaven, while their innocent victims and their blameless families will be condemned because they cannot bring themselves to forgive the terrible offenses committed against them and their loved ones.

There are those who survive terrible natural and other catastrophes who praise their Deity for their deliverance, while 100s or 1000s of others, just as devout or at least decent, have perished. At the same time, there are so-called "Godly" preachers who declare victims of these natural consequences of living on a volatile planet DESERVE their troubles because of whatever "sin" is highest on the preachers' agendas (homosexuality, abortion, independent women, etc.)

There are those who work in the meat industry, or hunt for their family's sustenance, while coddling their dogs,cats, horses, parakeets, pet turtles, etc., and will derive comfort from the idea of the "Rainbow Bridge." But again, what of the animals who (against their wills) have fed their families and those very pets?

There is no answer that will satisfy anyone, and it doesn't really matter, since we all will die, no matter what the disposition of our "essences." Fighting over it has caused even more unnecessary premature deaths, which is something we really need to fight every day. I think we can all get behind this; the problem is convincing others that it's not worth killing someone for most reasons, or themselves, because when you get right down to it,the vast majority of reasons that people kill other people ARE trivial, even, gasp, money!

I can only go with those observations, that save for a very short period of time, when one sleeps, one IS pretty much almost like dead. Based on my own experiences of general anesthesia, where even unconscious breathing must be assisted, is even MORE like death. I don't recall much before my 2nd year, either.

Sometimes I get a feeling of eternity when looking at a mountain or pastoral scene, but that is more due to personal aesthetics, than a real sense of having always somehow been, or that I will go on in some form, or, (sadly) anyone else, good or bad. All I have to do is return to a town and the mess humans have made of the only world and life they will (likely) know, for the nice peaceful feeling to pop like a bubble.

Not to mention that all the natural beauty comes from innumerable other deaths that we will never know, because that is nature.

Make your life better for its own sake if it's in your power, and as much as possible without hurting anyone else, and the death will take care of itself.

[Mickey]

It's called "Faith".

[rucyco2]

I agree plus anyone that has been dead a few days always comes back as a zombie.

or a Vampire

[mulligan]

good post linnie

[Nelliebean]

Whatever floats your boat-- just don't try to capsize mine.

[despitethetears]

It's called "Faith".

Faith is nice. I follow what Salma Hayek said in Dogma - "Nobody has got it right yet. It is not important what faith you have, just that you have faith"

I have faith that if there is a God, he is just as much as a hippie as I am, and just wanted us to be good people.

[james1977]

You say this with such certainty like you have some inside track on the answer. The only thing that is certain is the uncertainty. Stephen Hawkings only knows what has been scientifically available through either discovery or reasonable extrapolation. Like the point I made earlier, every generation has had their "Stephen Hawkings", before we knew what gravity was, black holes, the big bang theory etc....

If you look at the complexity of our existence and really consider what it took to get us here than I would suggest that the existence of something beyond us, involving us is more likely than simply "lights out".

To suggest that people who believe this somehow lack "common sense" or are blinded by religion is a little rude considering your company. Just my opinion.

Humans always think of things that will not happen. Look up the definition of death- on-line- It is -The end. I can never understand how humanity can think there is something when all evidence points otherwise. That game of being optimistic. Nature doesn't play that optimistic game. How can one live without a functioning body ? Our brains need oxygen from the blood. No blood flow, the brain dies and we are dead. Simple as that. Why does everyone want to hang onto those Santa Claus beliefs ? Europe has rejected all of that religion bullcrap. They laugh at America. I always thought Reincarnation was valid. I think we come back again in new bodies. The same process that created us before will create us again. In new bodies. There is a process going on. And the Church freaks laugh at me. There is more evidence for Reincarnation than any bullcrap Heaven. Hawking is totally right about that. Look up in the sky? Do you see a heaven? It's bullcrap.

[Paulination]

Humans always think of things that will not happen. Look up the definition of death- on-line- It is -The end. I can never understand how humanity can think there is something when all evidence points otherwise. That game of being optimistic. Nature doesn't play that optimistic game. How can one live without a functioning body ? Our brains need oxygen from the blood. No blood flow, the brain dies and we are dead. Simple as that. Why does everyone want to hang onto those Santa Claus beliefs ? Europe has rejected all of that religion bullcrap. They laugh at America. I always thought Reincarnation was valid. I think we come back again in new bodies. The same process that created us before will create us again. In new bodies. There is a process going on. And the Church freaks laugh at me. There is more evidence for Reincarnation than any bullcrap Heaven. Hawking is totally right about that. Look up in the sky? Do you see a heaven? It's bullcrap.

I think this discussion has gone further than the simple "does heaven exist" to is there something after we die? You have to believe your soul is something seperate from your body. Your own belief system suggests that that is true since you believe in re-incarnation. As far as all of the evidence suggesting that this is it, I would say the evidence points to the opposite. We are so complicated that evolution can't explain or account for the human body which points to a creator or some sort of intelligent design.

[Jason]

Why is it that all brainiacks are atiests?

because they are smart and know better.

[Aries65]

Retard vs the Genius - who will win?

And oh by the way Kirk, how's that career going?

Kirk Cameron -- Stephen Hawking Is WRONG!!!!!

5/18/2011 12:25 AM PDT by TMZ Staff
Super Christian Kirk Cameron says Stephen Hawking is WRONG about the non-existence of Heaven -- insisting Hawking is just as ignorant as ... (wait for it) ... John Lennon.



Kirk -- who is HUGELY active in his evangelist church -- tells TMZ Hawking has no scientific evidence to back his claim that Heaven is merely a, "Fairy story for people afraid of the dark."

Cameron tells us, "Professor Hawking is heralded as 'the genius of Britain,' yet he believes in the scientific impossibility that nothing created everything and that life sprang from non-life."

He adds, "Why should anyone believe Mr. Hawking's writings if he cannot provide evidence for his unscientific belief that out of nothing, everything came?"

So how does John Lennon fit in to all this? Cameron explains:

"[Hawking] says he knows there is no Heaven. John Lennon wasn't sure. He said to pretend there's no Heaven. That's easy if you try. Then he said he hoped that someday we would join him."

"Such wishful thinking reveals John and Stephen's religious beliefs, not good science."

So there you have it ... Stephen Hawking and a Beatle connected through Mike Seaver.

BOOM!

[ichabodius]

Hmmm.........
A famous scientist states he is an athiest in response to a question proposed during an interview.
He obviously should be burned at the stake.

[Mammy]

Stephen Hawking has no proof there isn't a Heaven and Kirk Cameron has no proof that there is. People are free to believe whatever they want. I don't know why anyone gets all bent out of shape over whether a person believes in God or not. I used to like Kirk Cameron back in the eighties, but he is strange acting and very much holier than thou these days. He shouldn't get so pissy over someone else's opinion.

[tarsier]

I had thought better of Hawking than for him to attempt to limit the universe in such a way.

[Tony Trout]

If there is a Heaven... I think there are a LOT of people who think they are going, that won't be showing up.

There is definitely a heaven. Read Genesis chapter 1. As far as the second comment: I totally agree with you. There are a lot of so-called "Christians" who think they've got it right with God that they may get a very big surprise one day and wind up somewhere other than Heaven.

Ummmm, I thought it was your spirit that went to heaven?

Your spirit does go back to Heaven.

So, when the resurrection happens, everyone gets a new body? .

That is correct, Neil. When we die, our "physical" bodies go back to the dust from which it was created by God but when we who are "dead in Christ" (spiritually speaking as a believer in God/Christ) rise, we will immediately receive a glorified body with no disease, no imperfections - nothing! And, seeing as I suffer daily from chronic pain brought on by Cerebral Palsy, that "resurrection day" is a day that I am very greatly looking forward to!

[Jason]

anybody who claims to know what happens when we die, doesn't know shit.

[Tony Trout]

anybody who claims to know what happens when we die, doesn't know shit.

If that comment is/was directed at me, then I really don't appreciate it, Jason.

[Jason]

it was directed at anybody who claims to know what happens when we die, if you claim to know... then yes, it was directed at you. The only people who knows what happens are dead, so... not quite sure how anybody can pull that one off.

[cloudddae]

Personally, I think after you drop off, the only thing that happens is you become worm food. Remember that eternity of nothing before you were born? It's the same thing for eternity after you're dead. You get 75 years or so and that's it.

How depressing. I prefer to believe there is more... As so many have said, we dont know for sure, but it seems to me that there has to be some reason we were here to begin with, and ending up as worm food seems like a pointless end to it all.
I truly hope there is a heaven, or something else beyond this existence.
And if there is a Heaven, I certainly want to go there.

[Paulination]

It appears Mr. Hawking has not always felt that way. I have included a link to an 8 part series which I found fascinating and I think you will too. It approaches the subject of heaven and an afterlife using the study of NDE, scientific reasoning and religous dogma.

My link is for part 7/8 because it begins with a Hawking quote and looks at the subject scientifically but you can easily navigate to the other parts from there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78dfg2T_dvU&NR=1