I wonder what other famous people that Quack Screwed up in the Head?
I wonder what other famous people that Quack Screwed up in the Head?
She was bipolar. Katherine Hepburn was a good friend and she often drove Vivien to her ECT sessions and took care of her. Where was Laurence is what I want to know?Originally Posted by Kathyf
As for any psychiatrist, bipolar was hard to treat with no meds. I think Vivien was very high functioning. Marilyn was fragile because of her very mixed up, abusive childhood. Her mother abandoned her, all the foster homes and she was allegedly raped as a child. That plus drug addiction sent her over the edge. I think of Vivien as much stronger and more capable.
Last edited by Vamp; 07-14-2008 at 01:57 PM.
From Vivienonline.com: Katherine Hepburn was Vivien's maid of honor at her wedding to Olivier.
Vivien was also a heavy, life long smoker. That must have aggravated her TB!
Personal
Birth Name: Vivian Mary Hartley
Nickname(s): Vivling
Date of Birth: November 5th, 1913
Place of Birth: Darkeeling, India
Date of Death: July 7, 1967 (Age 53)
Place of Death: London, England
Health
Physical: Outbreaks of Tuberculosis; Insomia
Mental: Manic Depression (Bipolar Disorder)
She was also a very heavy smoker during her life.
Friends & Family
Parents: Ernest & Gertrude Hartley
Husbands: Herbert Leigh Holman (1932-1940); Laurence Olivier (1940-1960)
Beau: Jack Merivale (1960-1967- together until her death)
Children: Suzanne Farrington
Actor Friends: Maureen O’Sullivan (Went to school with Vivien); Katherine Hepburn (Was Vivien’s maid of honor and a witness to her wedding to Olivier)
Awards
Oscars: 1939 Best Actress; 1951 Best Actress
BAFTA Awards: 1951 Best Actress
Tony Awards: 1963 Best Leading Actress in a Musical
NYFCC Awards: 1939 Best Actress; 1951 Best Actress
Venice Film Festival Awards: 1951 Volpi Cup Best Actress
Regarding Vivien's use of ECT to control her bipolar disorder:
As stated before, because of the time there was not an existing treatment that could help manic depression long term. But there was one treatment that Vivien did try later on. This treatment is known as electroshock therapy. Electroshock therapy is when high, but safe, volts of electricity are admitted to the brain. This causes stimulus in the brain, which can, in some cases, help improve a patient’s condition. In Vivien’s case, because again of the time period, the treatments were not as successful as they could have been if they were administered today.
Vivien’s sessions of shock therapy lasted for a bit of time. In the beginning this did not stop her from working. She was able to have her treatment in the morning and be ready for work later in the day, without anything bothering her. But as the treatments progressed, they became more and more strenuous on Vivien’s body, so eventually she had to start canceling her performances.
Hi folks first post here! Sorry if I missed someone already saying this but I have read on a couple of western trivia sites that the facade of the Barkley Rach in the opening and closing scene of the Big Valley TV series was the old facade of Tara from GWTW.
Love this site and everything I glean from all your posts!
Mary
Renowned Death Hag
This lady was fantastic... such a talent and beauty...My favourit movie with her is streetcar, love Waterloo Bridge as well.
Am a big fan of Lord Laurence also, they were a very beautiful couple. But think they were both difficult to live with.... Olivier was a perfectionist to the bone and Vivien (because of her disease) was so unpredictable... often had those all night parties, when Olivier was rehearsing for a role. But still they stayed together for 20 years, and stayed friends for the rest of her life...
Actually i understand why he married Joan Plowright afterwards... she was so much more "eartly"...I think he loved being the family man with her and the children....
As for the scene in GWTW... I never saw it as rape either. have any of you seen the mini series Scarlett? How do you feel about it? I actually liked it, but somehow i dont connect the two stories... It´s like a new story. But I think that Joanna Whalley and Timothy Dalton are great choises for the parts.....
Last edited by AnneBoleyn; 07-14-2008 at 03:12 PM.
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Love is the answer - and you know that for sure.
I wonder if Vivien hadn't miscarried twice whether Laurence and she would have divorced. Vivien had a daughter from her first marriage but Laurence had no children until he married Joan Plowright.
Yes, he had one son from a previous marriage with Jill Esmond, Tarquin.
I love her as Blanche in Streetcar!!! My favorite character she played!! She was beautiful, IMO .. sad to hear about her bipolar disorder .. and to see she died relatively young!!
love her she gave up everything to be with olivier and he dumped her i know she was bipolar. always reading how she made his life miserable never anything bad about him. his son blamed everything that went wrong on vivien. sad
Sometimes a man just has to step up and be totally in control......that's what I think she really wanted.... she wanted him to want her
I did in fact see "Scarlett". I liked it, but like you, I feel that it was a whole different story. I just could not connect the two in my head. I read the book as well and felt the same way reading the book.
The scene you mention of Rhett kicking ass and carrying Scarlett upI`ve seen that movie a thousand times, and I`ve seen no rape...if your talking about Rhett kicking ass and taking her up those stairs, I wouldn`t call that rape....obviously by her charming southern humming the next day.....have I missed something ????
the elegant staircase was considered HUSBANDLY RAPE.
This very incident happened to the author Margret Mitchell by her first
husband. She created the Rhett character with this man in mind.
I didn't see it as rape the only argument Scarlett put up was of a spoilt brat fling her fists and kicking her legs about all for show. Victims of rape usually don't hum a happy ditty in the morning or are heartbroken when the rapist leave for another country the next morning.
It was about time Scarlett wanted Rhett shame she was just to late and Rhett was over her by the time she got her shit together.
One of the most beautiful woman on earth!
(why did someone pull my photo of Vivien?)
Last edited by MoonRabbit; 10-21-2008 at 11:01 PM.
When a woman is forced into having sex against her will whether it is by a husband, acquaintance, or stranger
it is RAPE.
Husbands are usually exempt from arrest although I think there
are cases on record where husbands have had to stand before
a judge.
Last edited by MoonRabbit; 10-21-2008 at 07:44 PM.
Love Vivien this is my all time favorite photo of her!
Its really quite amazing taken on the set of Gone with the Wind ! She has a cigarette in her hand but this version of the photo was cropped!
Imagine Scarlett smoking!
No arguments over her beauty here either she was wonderful to look at I think!
Last edited by cherryghost; 10-22-2008 at 04:51 AM.
Someone took out my photo of Vivien?
This one is also one of my favorites. She looks so young there.
She died so young at only 53.
This is the house Vivien and Laurence lived in together when they left their spouses. So small and cute.
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?im...%3D1%26hl%3Den
Wow! Interesting thread ya'll have here...nice photo of the cottage. I never took that scene as rape, either, not as happy as Scarlett was the next morning. GWTW is a good movie. I should rent it and watch it again, sometime...
She was young here 26....... I believe! Not yet married to Olivier and beginning to show signs of her mania and depression! There is something in her eyes in this photograph.
Nuns at the convent she was enrolled in as a child noticed something different about her moods even as a child.
And when she ran off and left her husband and child for Lawrence Olivier
she had an attack that Larry commented on as "Vivien having gone
bonkers!".
This was before they were married.
Administrator
I agree, but you are thinking modern thunk. In those days and up until reletively recently it was not considered rape if a husband forced his wife.
On another note, we saw the staircase scene, but we do not actually know if he forced her once they got up to the bedroom or if he seduced her. I'm betting on the latter, since she was so happy the next morning.
Agreed. Men owned their wives in the old days (some do today). I read that Margaret Mitchell was raped by her first husband so I believe Mitchell incorporated that event in her book Gone with the Wind. I believe that scene was intended to be a rape.
Most people don't agree. Also the scene the following morning show a
very content Scarlett with a big smile on her face.
I can't recall if Mitchell wrote that scene in her novel or if it was a
Hollywood creation?
Either way Gone with the Wind is a great book and movie!
Wedding are held at Vivien Leigh's and Lawrence Olivier's old home
Notley Abby!
http://www.vivien-leigh.com/notleyabbey.html
Renowned Death Hag
Vivien was so beautiful...such a tragedy
I read a funny story about Vivien in one of her websites.
Seems she and her husband Lawrence Olivier were at a party in England
at the home of friend and fellow actor Michael Redgrave.
Well Vivien didn't want to appear rude so she indulged in mixed drinks
at the party. Lawrence Olivier warned her to cool it as she could become
ill with the drinks. Apparently she didn't listen to him.
When they left the party Vivien looked pale and ill.
On their way home they had to stop the car so that Vivien could walk
out to the bushes and barf.
The car was stopped several times on the way home while Vivien walked
out to the bushes and heaved!
By the time they got home Vivien not only was sicker than hell, on one of
the trips to the bushes she left her purse behind with expensive jewelry
in it.
Lucky for Vivien a friend went back along the throw-up route and located
the purse.
He presented Vivien with the purse and jewels wrapped like a gift the next day and she screamed with delight at getting her goods back!
She also informed the friend that she had "a bad hangover".
No shit!
method acting wasn't a product of Greenson. It was something that MM as well as Brando picked up at the Actor's Studio with Lee Strasberg. Greenson was a quack, but you can't put that on his shoulders, as MM incorporated method acting way before she met Greenson.
That is a great find MoonRabbit!I read a funny story about Vivien in one of her websites.
Seems she and her husband Lawrence Olivier were at a party in England
at the home of friend and fellow actor Michael Redgrave.
Well Vivien didn't want to appear rude so she indulged in mixed drinks
at the party. Lawrence Olivier warned her to cool it as she could become
ill with the drinks. Apparently she didn't listen to him.
When they left the party Vivien looked pale and ill.
On their way home they had to stop the car so that Vivien could walk
out to the bushes and barf.
The car was stopped several times on the way home while Vivien walked
out to the bushes and heaved!
By the time they got home Vivien not only was sicker than hell, on one of
the trips to the bushes she left her purse behind with expensive jewelry
in it.
Lucky for Vivien a friend went back along the throw-up route and located
the purse.
He presented Vivien with the purse and jewels wrapped like a gift the next day and she screamed with delight at getting her goods back!
She also informed the friend that she had "a bad hangover".
No shit!
Renowned Death Hag
Vivien always had the signs of bi-polar. It just wasnt recognised earlier to be dealt with. The fact that her sex drive & lack of sleep didnt show warning signs to laurence was there in itself. He was often exhausted when living with her as they never rested. If there had been a rest period, i think they would have lasted. She must have seem exciting & fun when they first got together, but that feeling must have worn off after a few years especially when they were performing together on stage every night.
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I loved the story. Vivien was a very real person!That is a great find MoonRabbit!
I also think Larry and Vivien would have lasted until death had she not
been ill.
What I can't get over with Larry is that even after the hell he went
through with Vivien and her illness, he told his son Tarquin (in the mid 50's)
that they were trying for a baby???
He also told Tarquin that he liked Vivien's body but not her mind.
Tarquin told an interviewer that Vivien was not all all maternal.
A true romantic!
I also read that when Larry was in bed and dying he mentioned
to someone that he and Vivien were really in love.
Back in the 80s I worked with a guy who knew her. The guy was in his 60s and very involved in the theatre - very camp and very gay.
He named Vivien and two other great ladies of the British stage (can't remember the other two) as sitting together having tea and swearing like troopers - (the C word and everything). He said: "I've never known anyone be able to use that word so beautifully as Vivien."
Senior Death Hag
Is it true about her being a sex addict
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He hadn't met Lucille Ball!
Mervyn LeRoy (director Waterloo Bridge)
mentioned that no woman talked dirtier than Vivien.
But that she was a true professional.
Actress Carole Lombard was also a well known cusser.
Some people that are bipolar go off on sexual adventures (I've read).
Larry Olivier stated that Vivien would go after men while ill-any man.
What a horrible illness.
I few months ago I read an authorized biography of Lawrence Olivier. I usually stay away from "authorized" because I find "authorized" translates to "revisionist history". But this guy had access to Vivien Leigh's papers, Oliver's papers, and Joan Plowright's personal archive. It was almost too much information. Especially the reprint of the letter Olivier sent to Leigh after she'd sent him a pair of her underwear. Sticks in my mind terribly.
Apparently she had some major manic spell and David Niven and Danny Kaye had to hold her down to keep her from running around Hollywood naked. wouldn't you like to have been a fly on the wall in tinseltown that night?
about the sex addiction - It's a bipolar thing. The disease is prevelant in my family line, and I have a cousin who gets herself into SERIOUS trouble during some of her manic spells because she cannot 'get' enough. Medication doesn't seem to do much for that particular symptom in her case.
As for Vivien, in the Olivier bio it says she told him quite simply one day that she no longer loved him, but she liked being Lady Olivier and she liked the sex, although she would get it anywhere she could when he wasn't there, or when he finally lost interest himself.
I saw an earlier post questioning why he was "never there". They spent an incredible amount of time apart. He was in the RAF and their filming schedules were always wonky. It reads like he had no idea how bad she was for the longest time because he simply wasn't there.
Last edited by radiojane; 10-28-2008 at 10:12 AM.
If you want to be like a fly on the wall get the David Niven book
"Bring on the empty horses".
There is a Chapter in that book that discusses his taking care of
Vivien Leigh during her madness episode during the "Elephant Walk" fiasco!
Niven disguises her identity but Vivien is "Our Little Girl" in that
book.
What David Niven went through with Vivien is unbelievable.
In the late 1950's I read that Larry lost all interest in her sexually. During a dinner with all kinds of people at the table including Kirk Douglas, Vivien announced "Larry why won't you F**k me anymore?"Now that would have been embarrassing to me! It probably sickened him to have to continue sharing her in bed with others. Just my take.
I love this photo of Vivien! WOW!
Renowned Death Hag
She was so beautiful with such delicate bone structure.
Try not to judge ol' Olie too harshly. I was married for 12 years to a man with bipolar disorder. It is so hard to live with someone while they are going through that. In my case, he refused to get treatment for years. A lot of damage was done to the marriage by then. You put up with a lot and suffer quite a bit, and you always keep in the back of your head, "well, they didn't mean that. " You are watching someone you love suffer and you can't help them. You lose your friends, people don't understand, you make excuses as to why you vanish from activities. You end up walking on egg shells afraid anything could set them off. Apparently my cheery disposition really bothered him so you suppress any joy you have in life. Nobody understands unless you've been there in that lonely place. It really can make you depressed.
Last edited by okidoll; 11-03-2008 at 11:48 AM. Reason: added
I think Olivier was pretty gallant putting up with Vivien for as long as
he could.
In the late 50's he had enough and couldn't handle the situation any longer.
He was too unhappy. He chose to look for some peace and quite and
happiness.
You can't blame him for that.
Larry also almost killed Vivien during one of her manic periods.
She was hitting him while he slept with small wet towels and he
got up and flung her across the room where she hit her
head on a piece of furniture. There are photos of her wearing an eye patch
when this happened.
Last edited by MoonRabbit; 11-03-2008 at 01:55 PM.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY VIVIEN LEIGH!
Vivien Leigh would have been 95 today!
November 5, 1913
Renowned Death Hag
So cool, I never knew I shared a birthday with Vivien Leigh.HAPPY BIRTHDAY VIVIEN LEIGH!
Vivien Leigh would have been 95 today!
November 5, 1913
Happy Birthday Alanwench !!!
Novemeber 5th !!!!!
Wow!! Happy Birthday both to Vivien Leigh and Alanwench!!
They (Larry and Vivien) were such a sexy couple that older married people would invite them over to ignite their own dull marriages.Shes great in Waterloo Bridge too.
She was such a gorgeous lady, those killer cheekbones!
Theres and anecdote that i love and cracks me up because id never expect those words coming out of Vivien's mouth:When she was working in GWTW, she was quite mad that she couldnt see Olivier for weeks, it was the beggining of their romance and they were crazy for each other. One day , Selznick decided to let her go visit Laurece for a few days who i believe was in the UK during those days. When she came back to the studio , Selznick asked her how did the visit go and Vivien's answer was, literally:
"[SIZE=2]Oh David, I'm so grateful to you." "Larry met me in the hotel lobby, and we went upstairs, and we fucked, and we fucked, and we fucked the whole weekend."
[/SIZE]
I read that once.....Probably true.
Vivien looked so sexy in Waterloo Bridge in the scene where she is
walking the train station looking for Johns when she see Robert Taylor
stepping off the train thinking he is dead.
She was perfect in looks!
He was watching a movie after her death, I recall and said to a friend with teary eyes, "This was love..this was the real thing."
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