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Thread: Former President Donald Trump

  1. #1201
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    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    I realize this might be in jest but I'll comment anyway since it seems our history is distorted when it comes to who did what.

    The Indians, Andrew Jackson (considered the founder of the democrat party) signed the Indian relocation bill that was to begin the genocide that follows as it seems some tribes weren't so willing to give up their land.
    Andrew Jackson was also a major slave owner who treated them horribly. Every slave owner in the south was a democrat BTW. Democrats overwhelmingly voted against the civil rights act of 1866. It was originally vetoed by president Andrew Johnson (a democrat) but congress over rode him.

    The civil rights act of 1875 was also passed by a majority of republicans voting for it and a majority of democrats voting against it. It was signed into law president Grant, a republican.

    Research the history of the woman's right to vote movement, republicans made that happen.

    It was a democrat that put the Japanese in internment camps during world war 2.

    It goes on and on.
    I've never been ashamed to be a white American and I have ZERO guilt and no pussy liberal is going to make me feel I should.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    I realize this might be in jest but I'll comment anyway since it seems our history is distorted when it comes to who did what.

    The Indians, Andrew Jackson (considered the founder of the democrat party) signed the Indian relocation bill that was to begin the genocide that follows as it seems some tribes weren't so willing to give up their land.
    Andrew Jackson was also a major slave owner who treated them horribly. Every slave owner in the south was a democrat BTW. Democrats overwhelmingly voted against the civil rights act of 1866. It was originally vetoed by president Andrew Johnson (a democrat) but congress over rode him.

    The civil rights act of 1875 was also passed by a majority of republicans voting for it and a majority of democrats voting against it. It was signed into law president Grant, a republican.

    Research the history of the woman's right to vote movement, republicans made that happen.

    It was a democrat that put the Japanese in internment camps during world war 2.

    It goes on and on.
    Take it anyway you want it, Pauli. But it is spot on for historical panic buttons. Oh, and BTW many of the eastern tribes had been wiped out by the time Jackson sent the Cherokee on the Trail of Tears (1838 & 1839). My family is Cherokee and I know that they were not willing to give up their land. They were forced. The only reason I don't have ties to Oklahoma today is my relatives fled to North Carolina and trickled back down.

    Where today are the Pequot [traditionally of the first Thanksgiving] Where are the Narragansett, the Mohican, the Pokanoket, and many other once powerful tribes of our people They have vanished before the avarice and the oppression of the White Man, as snow before a summer sun. Will we let ourselves be destroyed in our turn without a struggle, give up our homes, our country bequeathed to us by the Great Spirit, the graves of our dead and everything that is dear to us I know you will cry with me, NEVER NEVER.
    Tecumseh, a famous chief of the Shawnee who tried to unite Indian tribes against the increasing white settlement (1768-1813) He died before Jackson's day of strong arm.
    Last edited by cindyt; 11-29-2016 at 11:36 AM.
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  3. #1203
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    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    Take it anyway you want it, Pauli. But it is spot on for historical panic buttons.
    I don't disagree with that, it is just that the list charecterizes them as a product of the right which is inaccurate.
    I've never been ashamed to be a white American and I have ZERO guilt and no pussy liberal is going to make me feel I should.
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  4. #1204
    In other words, those workers lost, and the one percent won. Those savings didn't trickle down to anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    I don't disagree with that, it is just that the list charecterizes them as a product of the right which is inaccurate.
    This is true.
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  6. #1206
    This piece does a great job of explaining what happened to the Democratic party. It became about social issues, identity politics and political correctness. It became the party of elitites instead of the party of workers. But what people care about is their damned livelihoods.

    https://www.pastemagazine.com/articl...cept-real.html

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    Not reading a whole lot in the media about Trumps negotiations with Carrier that got them to not move to Mexico and saving up to 1000 jobs. What little I do see is criticism for the tax break that is almost certainly in the deal. Of course this argument is shallow because the loss in economic activity should they have left, especially when the multiplier effect is applied would have resulted in far less tax revenues than whatever break they are getting.
    I've never been ashamed to be a white American and I have ZERO guilt and no pussy liberal is going to make me feel I should.
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  8. #1208
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    Not reading a whole lot in the media about Trumps negotiations with Carrier that got them to not move to Mexico and saving up to 1000 jobs. What little I do see is criticism for the tax break that is almost certainly in the deal. Of course this argument is shallow because the loss in economic activity should they have left, especially when the multiplier effect is applied would have resulted in far less tax revenues than whatever break they are getting.
    Since I've been a Trump detractor, it's only fair to say that I'm favorably impressed with his handling of that. Yeah - most everything I've heard in the news has been negative - Sanders even says that it sends a signal to all corporations that all they have to do to get some sweet tax breaks, "beat Trump", etc. is threaten to move operations; and others are making a big, negative deal about it.

    I think it's keeping a lot of people employed where they live.
    I think they won't be collecting unemployment or looking for jobs.
    I think they will be buying goods and services locally and beyond; and they will be paying their taxes.

    I think there's a whole host of positive effects to that deal and I suspect those will more than offset the cost\value of any concessions made to Carrier.

    I think we'll be able to find legitimate "Trump issues" to complain about if we want to; I'd suggest that my fellow Trump detractors STFU about that one, consider the positive aspects and give credit where it's due for preserving a bunch of jobs.

    They're going to look just damned evil if they don't consider what that deal means to those workers and the communities that they live and work in.

    OK, here I go - good job, Trump.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
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    Battling offshoring and nearshoring was the signature issue of his campaign. It's interesting that Diane Francis, editor of Canada's Financial Post, has come to support him. (Canada as well as the U.S. has lost vast numbers of manufacturing jobs to low-wage countries, especially Mexico and China, in the last twenty years.)

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    This quote keeps popping into my head when I read things about our new pres-elect: Sir Thomas More: "I am... reminded of something Wolsey once told me. That I should only ever tell the king what he ought to do, not what he could do; for if the lion knows his own strength, no man could control him." Of course he was speaking of Henry VIII, but I feel there could be some parallels made....

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    Trump says Taiwan president 'called me' to offer congratulat

    U.S. President-Elect Donald Trump said on Friday that Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen called him on Friday to congratulate him on his election win. I read the screen shot and he said "CALLED ME." He wanted everybody--except the ones he's banned--to know what an honor it was to infuriate Beijing. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idUSKBN13S01P
    Last edited by cindyt; 12-04-2016 at 01:14 PM.
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    I don't feel qualified to comment on U.S. politics , but just to say we in the UK are no nearer Brexit than we were when we first voted out .A lot of the country knows that the powers that be weren't happy with it ,and now every day there seems to be a new hurdle to overcome to actually leave the EU.It's infuriating .Meantime , our disabled people are losing their benefits , people can't afford the huge deposits they need to get a home, and for no reason overnight the decision to move some state pensions 6 years further away or longer (like I have to be 66 now to get my pension , my son will probably have to work into his 70's - if he can , to get his ) so the country still feels like crap.

    One massive thing that amazes me when I talk to Americans or see them on tv is - you hear them say "I'm proud to be an American " .You would rarely hear anyone from the UK saying "I'm proud to be British " .
    The way Trump is carrying on,I wonder if he'll even make it to become President ! not that I think he shouldn't but I kind of wish he would wait until he's officially in post before he stirs it up too much .

    Cindy - I am in awe of your Cherokee heritage ! I'm a Liverpudlian and can only say it's where the Beatles were from - not quite the same

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    Arty, thank you. We should all be proud of where we came from. And I LOVE the Beatles.
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    So the re-count in Wisconsin has netted Trump more votes! Ha Ha, suck it Jill Stein!
    I've never been ashamed to be a white American and I have ZERO guilt and no pussy liberal is going to make me feel I should.
    --McCourt

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    a few voters are suing for a recount down here too. Will this ever end?
    To my Father. Even though you have crossed the plane, you will always be with me.
    You were not just my Father, but my hero. My life has been a poor attempt to be like you
    You taught me music, vocals, and how to fight. I can only hope I am half the man you are
    When I close my eyes I can see you. And finally, Thank you Dad. for everything.
    March 1934-July 2016

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    I'm sick to death of it. Let him be and let the straws fall where they may. They will anyway. They always do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcafgr View Post
    a few voters are suing for a recount down here too. Will this ever end?
    Florida's results have already been certified.

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    Yeah, I'm sorry it has come to all of this; I would have expected it if he lost, but the Dems need to let it go. I have a feeling if we give him enough rope, he'll end up hanging himself anyway. This recount shit isn't going to change anything; it just gives the other side more fodder for talk shows. I totally don't know what to believe about his appointments. They still have to be ratified by the Senate, most of them anyway. I don't think that will be too much of a problem however. Anyhoo, we'll see where all this goes. "Keep calm and just ignore the orange man."

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    Quote Originally Posted by seurtoFW View Post
    Yeah, I have a feeling if we give him enough rope, he'll end up hanging himself anyway. This recount shit isn't going to change anything; I totally don't know what to believe about his appointments. They still have to be ratified by the Senate, most of them anyway. I don't think that will be too much of a problem however. Anyhoo, we'll see where all this goes. "Keep calm and just ignore the orange man."
    Well said.
    Last edited by hisandhearse; 12-10-2016 at 05:59 AM.

  20. #1220
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    i voted for him, am proud of it, and he will make a fine president.
    pull the string!

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    Quote Originally Posted by hell0kitty View Post
    i voted for him, am proud of it, and he will make a fine president.
    Let's hope you're right.

    If he's anything like I expect him to be we're in for some dangerous and troubling times; and we don't need that. My "guess" on Obama was considerably off the mark; maybe that will be the case again.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
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    It will be a great time to be a CEO of some major company, that's for sure -- just a middle class Joe or someone in need - not so much

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    Let's hope you're right.

    If he's anything like I expect him to be we're in for some dangerous and troubling times; and we don't need that. My "guess" on Obama was considerably off the mark; maybe that will be the case again.
    Jim, Well said...
    However, I have read that some Trump supporters are already regretting their choice...Mainly because of his choices for cabinet..
    What is that old saying? "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer"? Hmm.
    Last edited by hisandhearse; 12-15-2016 at 09:37 AM.

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    There are only two ways to know anything about Donald Trump, observe independently what he is/ has done in his life, and what the media says. Too many of you put way too much into what the media says and nothing into what he has accomplished. You do this KNOWING the media is hell bent against him. You listen to what the democrats say KNOWWING they are full of shit because the leaked emails prove they are full of shit. You want reality? Start by reading how they think when they feel their thoughts are private.

    He's a rich guy because he's a smart businessman and knows how to negotiate. Smart businessmen tend to make money, just works that way. They also tend to hire lots of people and create tons of jobs. Why wouldn't you want that in a president? As far as the rich get richer and the poor get poorer comment, give me a break. The democrats brought that up because of the corporate tax reduction. That's the tax break on the 1% they are talking about. Reducing corporate tax is not intending to enrich share holders, it is intended to make the United States more competitive in the global economy when it comes to businesses staying here. You either do that or you reduce labor costs. Reduction of labor cost is how the poorer get poorer.

    When Obama got elected I was extremely disappointed. I spent about 5 seconds on that and then moved on with the "hope for the best" attitude. All of the belly aching out there is shameful and driven by the stupid media and the fact they couldn't get that crooked wench into office.

    On top of that, how does Trump compete against this....
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ort-false.html
    Last edited by Paulination; 12-15-2016 at 10:15 AM.
    I've never been ashamed to be a white American and I have ZERO guilt and no pussy liberal is going to make me feel I should.
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  25. #1225
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    Thanks, Paulie, very well said. Right now, the Democrats remind me of the Jehovah witness' and how they interpret the Bible using verses out of context.

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    As for me, I don't care what the media says. I sure don't care what the Democrats say - I've been ignoring those guys and voting conservative my entire life.

    I accepted the reality of wait and see on election night; but that doesn't mean that I won't continue to express doubts, concerns and opinions all along the way.

    I think that somehow you actually intelligent Trump supporters have allowed yourselves to be snookered - I don't know just how or by what; I'm sure it varies by supporter. That's just the only way that I can "rationalize" people of intelligence actually supporting the guy. The fact that the primary "other choice" in this election was IMO the second worst candidate offered up in the history of American politics surely influenced the matter.

    If Trump said that he and he alone could "fix" things; and that he can do it because he's being guided by super-intelligent life forms from another planet who can see the future; and that he has pictures and video to prove it; would any Trump supporters actually say, "Hey, Trump - how's about showing us those pictures?"; or would they just walk around talking about how he and he alone can fix things because, yada, yada, yada - and he has pictures to prove it?

    I observe independently; I also listen; and I judge the credibility and feasibility of what I'm shown and who and what I hear.

    I judge Trump to have no credibility and my gut says that he is extremely dangerous even if he doesn't intend or mean to be; but I'll just have to wait and see.
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  27. #1227
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    JimC - I agree with 99% of what you say - except reverse the parties. I've voted Democrat/Liberal all my voting life, tho not necessarily exclusively. I try to go with who I think would do the best job no matter party affiliation. I don't listen to talking heads; take any news with a grain of salt, and try to look up facts/nonfacts on Snopes or Politifac. I have said many times the majority of voters do not do research on their own, but just parrot whatever they hear from the pundits. I was not a big fan of either candidate this year, but I am very skeptical about the next 4 years and the impact they will have longterm; i.e. SCOTUS, cabinet appointments, etc. Unfortunately, we all just have to wait and see, and hope for the best. We can keep our fingers crossed that in the next election, we have candidates that are trustworthy, intelligent, openminded, etc. (I know, right?)

  28. #1228
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    Quote Originally Posted by seurtoFW View Post
    JimC - I agree with 99% of what you say - except reverse the parties. I've voted Democrat/Liberal all my voting life, tho not necessarily exclusively. I try to go with who I think would do the best job no matter party affiliation. I don't listen to talking heads; take any news with a grain of salt, and try to look up facts/nonfacts on Snopes or Politifac. I have said many times the majority of voters do not do research on their own, but just parrot whatever they hear from the pundits. I was not a big fan of either candidate this year, but I am very skeptical about the next 4 years and the impact they will have longterm; i.e. SCOTUS, cabinet appointments, etc. Unfortunately, we all just have to wait and see, and hope for the best. We can keep our fingers crossed that in the next election, we have candidates that are trustworthy, intelligent, openminded, etc. (I know, right?)
    Yeah - I wasn't "blindly conservative" - it just worked out that my views tended more to that end of things to varying degrees on different subjects. I did have a more "black and white" point of view; that has been evolving considerably in pretty much all matters for the last couple of years.

    Obviously, I think that observing and listening and drawing our own conclusions are critical; but I think another element - probably the most critical element that a lot of us do not incorporate into decision making - is questioning what we observe and hear. All of us tend to pretty readily accept things that confirm what we are already inclined to believe; that's understandable but I've come to consider it a bad habit and a bad practice that can lead to bad conclusions and bad decisions.

    That's what I don't get about some people who support whatever candidates or causes they support; when did they ask how will you make America great again? Did they ask when did America stop being great? When was it asked why did America stop being great?

    If the questions begged by the grand statements were ever asked, I missed the answers. That's why I think that if Trump made the statement about super intelligent life forms and having pictures to prove it - a statement not too much more crazy than things he has actually said - I think a lot of his supporters would just walk around talking about how those must be some pretty amazing pictures.

    Here's an article concerning "Informed Voting" that I read yesterday in Philosophy Now - the author makes some interesting observations on his way to suggesting an unworkable electoral process (IMO); but I thought some of his points were quite well taken:

    https://philosophynow.org/issues/116/Informed_Voting
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
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  29. #1229
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    Let's hope you're right.

    If he's anything like I expect him to be we're in for some dangerous and troubling times; and we don't need that. My "guess" on Obama was considerably off the mark; maybe that will be the case again.
    I have to agree here. I've felt that way since he got elected. What concerns me the most is his plans for supposedly stopping any kind of aid to disabled citizens (Medicaid) such as myself.
    "Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's Heaven on Earth" - Mark Twain

  30. #1230
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Trout View Post
    I have to agree here. I've felt that way since he got elected. What concerns me the most is his plans for supposedly stopping any kind of aid to disabled citizens (Medicaid) such as myself.
    http://money.cnn.com/2016/11/21/news...edicaid-trump/
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  31. #1231
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    I think I finally figured out, after this last election what the difference is between Democrats and Republican parties:
    Democrats don't want you being born, but if you are they'll take care of you from the cradle to the grave...
    Republicans don't mind you being born... as long as you don't live long enough to collect your social security! :P
    Last edited by Dangitbawb; 12-16-2016 at 05:59 PM.
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    All I can say is that we're seriously fucked with that orange colored a-hole running the show. Hopefully he's impeached shortly before he even makes it to his first year...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Trout View Post
    I have to agree here. I've felt that way since he got elected. What concerns me the most is his plans for supposedly stopping any kind of aid to disabled citizens (Medicaid) such as myself.
    Where did you get that from? His primary proposal is to move it from federal control to state control where it really should be since the states are in a better position to administer benefits given their cost of living. Using federal guidelines doesn't make sense since it is far more expensive to live in CA or NY than the mid west.
    I've never been ashamed to be a white American and I have ZERO guilt and no pussy liberal is going to make me feel I should.
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    Thank you, Cindy, for that link. That explains a lot and puts my mind at ease in a big way..


    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    Where did you get that from? His primary proposal is to move it from federal control to state control where it really should be since the states are in a better position to administer benefits given their cost of living. Using federal guidelines doesn't make sense since it is far more expensive to live in CA or NY than the mid west.
    Whoa! Hang on. Where did I hear that he was planning on stopping Medicaid? My own mother (who, unfortunately, only usually hears or listens to one side of a story - the bad side - and she usually gets really upset because she thinks that Trump is going to get rid of any kind of aid that helps people with disabilities. Myself, my Mom & my Stepfather are all three disabled. Dad suffers with COPD/Emphysema - and still smokes. Mom has Fibromyalgia and heart issues and suffers with RLS (restless legs syndrome) and I was born with Cerebral Palsy & Hydrocephalus.

    After reading the link Cindy provided and reading what you have posted, I now have a brighter outlook about programs such as Medicaid and Medicare & my future as a disabled citizen.

    I'll also be the first to admit that I don't know a hell of a lot about politics or the way Washington or the President (or President-Elect) does things so - I do need to educate myself a little better about what's going on politically in this country.

    Sorry if I was mis-informed.
    "Dance like no one is watching. Sing like no one is listening. Love like you've never been hurt and live like it's Heaven on Earth" - Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Trout View Post
    Thank you, Cindy, for that link. That explains a lot and puts my mind at ease in a big way..




    Whoa! Hang on. Where did I hear that he was planning on stopping Medicaid? My own mother (who, unfortunately, only usually hears or listens to one side of a story - the bad side - and she usually gets really upset because she thinks that Trump is going to get rid of any kind of aid that helps people with disabilities. Myself, my Mom & my Stepfather are all three disabled. Dad suffers with COPD/Emphysema - and still smokes. Mom has Fibromyalgia and heart issues and suffers with RLS (restless legs syndrome) and I was born with Cerebral Palsy & Hydrocephalus.

    After reading the link Cindy provided and reading what you have posted, I now have a brighter outlook about programs such as Medicaid and Medicare & my future as a disabled citizen.

    I'll also be the first to admit that I don't know a hell of a lot about politics or the way Washington or the President (or President-Elect) does things so - I do need to educate myself a little better about what's going on politically in this country.

    Sorry if I was mis-informed.
    I'm glad you feel better. I can't imagine how insecure one might feel being in that vulnerable of a position and hearing that.
    I've never been ashamed to be a white American and I have ZERO guilt and no pussy liberal is going to make me feel I should.
    --McCourt

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    Some D Bag was kicked off a Jet Blue flight for harassing Ivanka and her family. Said D Bag was holding his own kid while he yelled at them. Nice.

    "7:48 AM PT -- The husband of the unruly passenger tweeted an hour before the plane took off, "Ivanka and Jared at JFK T5, flying commercial. My husband chasing them down to harass them."

    Again, I understand this has been a contentious election, but even if you hate Trump what the Hell does yelling at his daughter and grandchildren accomplish?
    It would never have occured to me to yell at Chelsea, or the the Bush or Obama daughters.

    I don't question why they were flying commercial, but Jet Frigging Blue? I was under the impression Jet Blue makes Southwest look like British Airways Upper Class.

    http://www.tmz.com/2016/12/22/ivanka-trump-flight/
    Last edited by TheWrath of MadelineKahn; 12-22-2016 at 01:28 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    There are only two ways to know anything about Donald Trump, observe independently what he is/ has done in his life, and what the media says. Too many of you put way too much into what the media says and nothing into what he has accomplished. You do this KNOWING the media is hell bent against him. You listen to what the democrats say KNOWWING they are full of shit because the leaked emails prove they are full of shit. You want reality? Start by reading how they think when they feel their thoughts are private.

    He's a rich guy because he's a smart businessman and knows how to negotiate. Smart businessmen tend to make money, just works that way. They also tend to hire lots of people and create tons of jobs. Why wouldn't you want that in a president? As far as the rich get richer and the poor get poorer comment, give me a break. The democrats brought that up because of the corporate tax reduction. That's the tax break on the 1% they are talking about. Reducing corporate tax is not intending to enrich share holders, it is intended to make the United States more competitive in the global economy when it comes to businesses staying here. You either do that or you reduce labor costs. Reduction of labor cost is how the poorer get poorer.

    When Obama got elected I was extremely disappointed. I spent about 5 seconds on that and then moved on with the "hope for the best" attitude. All of the belly aching out there is shameful and driven by the stupid media and the fact they couldn't get that crooked wench into office.

    On top of that, how does Trump compete against this....
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ort-false.html
    I would argue that there are ZERO people in America who dislike Trump because they’ve been “brainwashed by the media.” The reason people dislike Trump is because he is a horrible human being who doesn’t have the slightest clue how to do the job that ALMOST fifty percent of the voters have given him.

    During the campaign, I attacked Trump on an almost daily basis. As any of my Facebook friends could tell you, 90% of the time my method of attack was simply to quote Trump accurately, and then let people draw their own conclusions. Trump doesn’t need the media’s help—or anyone else’s—to look like an incompetent asshole.

    This is why there are no photoshopped pictures of Trump shaking hands with Bin Laden, as there are of HRC. Liberals don’t HAVE to lie about Trump to make him look bad; they just need to get out of the way and let him be himself.

    Having said that, ALMOST fifty percent of the voters chose him, and I am willing to give him EXACTLY as much of a chance as conservatives did with Obama.
    Last edited by Upset; 12-26-2016 at 09:47 PM.
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    Upset

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    ITA Upset. I don't agree with the term "brainwashed". A whole lot of people (be they voters or not!) are very heavily influenced by what the choose to watch/listen to. We have become a nation of sound bite consumers in the worst way. Because so many people are lazy, complacent, or just not really interested, they just parrot what they hear/read/see rather than do any research into it to see if there is any truth in the statement/story/meme. I did my best to fact check any information I would forward. And I voted. I paid attention to what was going on; I always tried to find any nonpartisan objective source for info. There aren't many of those. I have used the term sheep a lot as I do believe a lot of the folks in this country will happily be led in whichever direction the border collies want them to go. It's easier, it's more comfortable, and once can be in the midst of one's own kind.

    Again - Trump doesn't need the media's help....to look like an incompetent asshole. And he has shown that time and again. Unless something extraordinary happens, I predict he will be a 1term president, and an ineffective leader. Congress and those surrounding him will guide policy and we can hope nothing permanently detrimental occurs.

    Running a business and being successful at it isn't the same thing as running a world power. There are a lot of tactics and strategies a business person uses that will not work for a president.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seurtoFW View Post
    ITA Upset. I don't agree with the term "brainwashed". A whole lot of people (be they voters or not!) are very heavily influenced by what the choose to watch/listen to. We have become a nation of sound bite consumers in the worst way. Because so many people are lazy, complacent, or just not really interested, they just parrot what they hear/read/see rather than do any research into it to see if there is any truth in the statement/story/meme. I did my best to fact check any information I would forward. And I voted. I paid attention to what was going on; I always tried to find any nonpartisan objective source for info. There aren't many of those. I have used the term sheep a lot as I do believe a lot of the folks in this country will happily be led in whichever direction the border collies want them to go. It's easier, it's more comfortable, and once can be in the midst of one's own kind.

    Again - Trump doesn't need the media's help....to look like an incompetent asshole. And he has shown that time and again. Unless something extraordinary happens, I predict he will be a 1term president, and an ineffective leader. Congress and those surrounding him will guide policy and we can hope nothing permanently detrimental occurs.

    Running a business and being successful at it isn't the same thing as running a world power. There are a lot of tactics and strategies a business person uses that will not work for a president.
    But, but, but....

    "He's a billionaire!"

    I heard that a lot (usually in very critical or dismissive tones) in response to comments concerning his lack of qualifications as well as that being the ultimate reason why some of the people I know decided to vote for him.

    I agree completely with the term "brainwashed"- but who the heck is being brainwashed here?
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
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    Quote Originally Posted by seurtoFW View Post
    ITA Upset. I don't agree with the term "brainwashed".
    Agree with it or not, trump supporters certainly accused dems of being brainwashed. I. E.:

    "Wonder why anyone in their right mind would vote for Killery?"

    "Because they've been brainwashed."

    I'm a dem and certainly not brainwashed. I was a rep before Trump but turned in the face of his lowdown antics and general nastiness. Hillery isn't snow white either, but I didn't see her supporters stooping to what his did and are still doing. They should take a cue from their own advice and let it go. But of course they are the ones you'll see with Confederate flags in their rear windshield and hollering bumper stickers: Forget? Hell no!" Dig that.
    Last edited by cindyt; 12-27-2016 at 06:37 AM.
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    I guess my problem with the word "brainwashed" is it infers the person has no choice or will of their own. I fully believe avid supporters of either side make the choice themselves; they very readily drink the koolaid and purposefully check the box.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    Agree with it or not, trump supporters certainly accused dems of being brainwashed. I. E.:

    "Wonder why anyone in their right mind would vote for Killery?"

    "Because they've been brainwashed."

    I'm a dem and certainly not brainwashed. I was a rep before Trump but turned in the face of his lowdown antics and general nastiness. Hillery isn't snow white either, but I didn't see her supporters stooping to what his did and are still doing. They should take a cue from their own advice and let it go. But of course they are the ones you'll see with Confederate flags in their rear windshield and hollering bumper stickers: Forget? Hell no!" Dig that.
    Well said-

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    Quote Originally Posted by Upset View Post
    I would argue that there are ZERO people in America who dislike Trump because they’ve been “brainwashed by the media.” The reason people dislike Trump is because he is a horrible human being who doesn’t have the slightest clue how to do the job that ALMOST fifty percent of the voters have given him.
    First, you give the average person way too much credit. To think people don't form biased opinions based on some narrow news stream they are addicted to is ludicrous. Even someone on here was scared because they thought DT was going to terminate their disability benefit based on something they heard.

    Everything you know about DT someone or something told you. Even the quotes you speak of are largely taken out of context most of the time. If someone did that to you every time you opened your mouth you would probably look like an ass as well. The only fair way to judge him is to evaluate what he does. No one can argue with results, they are what they are.

    EDIT

    I decided to add one more thing. I don't want to change any ones mind about Trump. Hell, I have no idea how he will do and I too only really know what I have read. But, when I look at what he has accomplished from a business standpoint, all of the risks, all of the success, the bouncing back from failure etc...and I look at how poorly every president since Bill Clinton has done in office and they have none of that, I can't help but be optimistic that these skills must account for something. Yes he has said things that are inapropriate and offensive...we all have. That just means he's not this polished political figure which suits me fine.
    Last edited by Paulination; 12-27-2016 at 01:54 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    Everything you know about DT someone or something told you.
    That's undeniably true in my case - my decision not to support the guy was based upon things that I was told; or not told:

    "Make America Great Again" - but don't tell me how or when it went wrong or how to "fix" it.
    "Build a wall" - why not lay a couple of mine fields and toss up a few drone machine guns while you're at it?
    "I and I alone can fix it" - Really? Seriously?

    I've heard enough; there is no need to tell me anything more.
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    A faulty hypothesis forming:
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    That's undeniably true in my case - my decision not to support the guy was based upon things that I was told; or not told:

    "Make America Great Again" - but don't tell me how or when it went wrong or how to "fix" it.
    "Build a wall" - why not lay a couple of mine fields and toss up a few drone machine guns while you're at it?
    "I and I alone can fix it" - Really? Seriously?

    I've heard enough; there is no need to tell me anything more.
    Well said Jim, That and his twitter rants...Are we not to believe his OWN words of disdain for people, nationalities, women, children, Finger pointing and blaming those who don't think, believe the way he does?
    Does he ever take responsibility for anything he has said or done?
    Make America great again? Pissy comment from someone who NEVER fought in any war for our freedom, remember that while you trump ppl are enjoying your freedom why don't you?
    Meanwhile my Dad, FIL, other relatives put their lives on the line thinking they were making America Great..
    They didn't have a choice to stay home and hide behind Daddy and his money like Trump did-
    I could go on, but won't.
    Simply because, Its like talking to cement slobs... The guy could crap in their face and they would call it fudge brownies.
    JMO.
    Last edited by hisandhearse; 12-27-2016 at 08:05 PM.

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    Are you guys living in the same country as me? Barack Obama has spent the last 8 years fighting against american exceptionalism and doing well. We have to rely on the Soviets to get our astronauts to the space station. We encourage Venezuela to drill for oil with the promise of becoming their best customer. We applaud the death Guaddafi yet let Assad continue on his genocide. We have sanctuary cities where illegal alien criminals are allowed to roam free. Our race relations keep getting worse etc....

    Those are just some examples. When was America great? Before all of this. All of this is confirmable yet somehow Trump is the problem.
    I've never been ashamed to be a white American and I have ZERO guilt and no pussy liberal is going to make me feel I should.
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  47. #1247
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    Quote Originally Posted by hisandhearse View Post
    Simply because, Its like talking to cement slobs... The guy could crap in their face and they would call it fudge brownies.
    JMO.
    I'm what I would call a Trump optimist and I can tell you exactly why I support him, no fudge brownies necessary. When you are ready to step back from your emotions and have a discussion I would look forward top that.
    I've never been ashamed to be a white American and I have ZERO guilt and no pussy liberal is going to make me feel I should.
    --McCourt

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    We encourage Venezuela to drill for oil with the promise of becoming their best customer.
    He can't seem to make up his mind whether Venezuela is a friend or an enemy. He slapped phoney sanctions on Venezuela, but left their economic lifeline, oil exports, intact, at the expense of America's ally, Canada.
    We applaud the death Guaddafi
    Overthrowing Gaddafi was not only illegal, it was a disaster that turned Libya into a failed state, facilitated the growth of ISIS, and destabilized much of Africa with looted weapons. Being that it was Clinton's idea, I am dumbfounded that there it was not even an issue in the campaign.
    Our race relations keep getting worse etc....
    Could anyone seriously argue that race relations haven't become significantly worse in the last eight years?
    Quote Originally Posted by JimC View Post
    "Build a wall" - why not lay a couple of mine fields and toss up a few drone machine guns while you're at it?
    Why is exerting control over America's borders a bad idea? (There are already large parts of the border that are sealed with high fences.)

  49. #1249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    Are you guys living in the same country as me? All of this is confirmable yet somehow Trump is the problem.
    Sure we are - we just don't seem to all be talking about the same guy.

    Trump isn't the problem yet; but give it some time; it won't take long, IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxster View Post
    Why is exerting control over America's borders a bad idea? (There are already large parts of the border that are sealed with high fences.)
    I don't have a problem with trying to control our borders or trying to control illegal immigration; I'm in favor of that actually. I just think that a wall isn't going to do much if any good and is thus a statement intended to cause a knee jerk reaction in followers or potential followers. Ironically, I'd say that that whole wall dialog was intended to get people off of the fence - to convince them to support the guy. A wall can be circumnavigated. You can build that thing from Sea to Shining Sea and people will still wade or swim through the saltwater to get here. They'll go over it and they'll go under it and they'll go around it.

    Saying you'll build a wall is to me about as promising as saying you'll make America great again. It's BS designed to appeal to a variety of people and get them to support the guy without thinking it through or requiring further explanations from the guy.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
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  50. #1250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulination View Post
    There are only two ways to know anything about Donald Trump, observe independently what he is/ has done in his life, and what the media says. l
    Are you jesting? He has a fucking Twitter account. There are more than "only two ways to know anything about Donald Trump". Not limited to referring to himself in the third person the fool has broken down the fourth wall and speaks directly to his audience sans filter to boot. Sorry to kick a hole through your looking glass.
    A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.

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