Renowned Death Hag
Since this is a death site.....I wanna know if anyone out there believes that some deaths are deserved or are some deaths just Karma coming back and biting them in the ass?? Or is is just bad luck? Which ones do you think were deserved and which one were just karma?
to be honest Jrwzeigle I'm not sure how to answer the question... I believe what goes around will come around and that karma is a great thing.
I really can't buy that. I know Sharon Tate and Jay sebring didn't deserve what they have gotten.
OJ's Wife didn't deserve what happened!
Lets hope Karma catches up with these people that did it soon though!!!
I posted something in the Rebecca Schaeffer thread about Karma I think. He killed her and while serving his time in prison, he was stabbed. I pretty much say that's Karma right? Everyone dies. Just never know when, so that's not Karma, but if you do something horrible to someone, and get it in return and live to tell about it, that is Karma. That's basically life telling them, they screwed up the system taking a life. Karma's a bitch!
Wow I think I just confused myself.
I think it's fairly random actually. Obviously someone who dies of an overdose helps bring it on themselves somewhat through their drug use, but I don't really think it's karma that makes them O.D. It's more that, by using drugs, they raise the odds that they'll die on the toilet with a spike in their arm. Obviously if you never use drugs, it will never happen to you, but in spite of your choice to not use drugs, you could still die on the toilet of a stroke; you just won't have a spike in your arm.
What I'm trying to say is, that we assign meaning to death that actually isn't there. When we see a nasty person die a nasty death, we figure that they got what's coming to them. In doing that, we ignore all the nice people who also had nasty deaths, and all the nasty people who died peacefully in their sleep.
When someone is a celebrity, we automatically assign additional meaning to their lives beyond that of an ordinary person. We idolize the good ones beyond all imagining, and castigate the bad ones near to death. That's why I feel that people hate Britney Spears so much now and are enjoying her downfall. She had been given the highest level of good-girl idolatry by her fans, and she failed to live up to the expectations that the adoring masses had for her. Naturally, celebrity deaths seem more meaningful that the deaths in your local obituary page. Your neighbor down the street could die and you might not know it for a week, but when Anna Nicole died, you couldn't escape the news and speculation that nearly everyone was gossiping about.
With people like Chris Farley, it's so hard to not look at it as paybacks for a life of overindulgence. However, apparently coke and hookers was a regular routine for him, so if he'd survived the night he might have died on the set the next day due to his heart problem and been a Hollywood hero like John Candy instead of infamous like Belushi. Honestly I think Farley would have preferred to be remembered as a bad boy like Belushi than a lovable fat guy like John Candy, so he would have liked the way things turned out. So, did he actually get what he wanted by dying the horrible way he did? And if he actually wanted to die like Belushi did, was his death due to good karma (making it so he died the way he wanted) or bad karma (making him die in a way that's considered horrible and depressing to everyone else)?
Plus there's a third little detail about karma in general. Karma from this lifetime isn't supposed to affect you until your next lifetime. Basically, if you're having a bad life now, it's because you did something bad in your last lifetime, not because of something you did in this lifetime. Plus, everything you do to make your terrible life right only scores you karma points for the next lifetime; it doesn't help you with this lifetime (at least as far as karma goes). A terrible person in this life isn't punished until the next life either, so theoretically Hitler is reincarnated somewhere as a truly miserable human being, one of the lowest of the low.
Whenever I think I see someone getting their just desserts, I try to remember that there were many more people who didn't get theirs, others who got it but didn't deserve it, etc. I don't believe in karma but I do believe in justice within this lifetime. Outside of it, who knows?
Upon rereading this I found it needs clarified.. I do believe what goes around will come around in a general way not specifically towards death. Unfortunately there are too many innocent people that have been taken due to some idiot being self serving to enforce their will and desire on someone else. As in the case of Nicole Simpson, someone enforced their will and desire to harm her over anything else and to a point got away with it... such is the case with so many situations.Originally Posted by b57hrle
Thanks for the clarifying of karma Sock!!
Wow......Good point. Congrats, you gave me a reality check.
Renowned Death Hag
It's sort of hard to figure in "karma" at times when little kids are beaten and killed by abusive parents - kids that didn't "deserve" what they got.
Other situations like the ones mentioned here. Karma is sort of hard to place at times....
Very interesting and thought provoking thread! Here's my take....
I don't know if I truly believe in karma....although I like the concept. What I do believe in is that a realm of peace (Heaven, or call it whatever you wish) awaits those who manage to get through this earthly existence. There's a great book out there written by Rabbi Harold Kushner, "When Bad Things Happen to Good People". He raised a very interesting point....bad things happen to ALL people, we just don't care as much when we hear some things, like that Fred Phelps may have cancer. He also raised my awareness of the theology that if one believes in God, can one believe in a God of Love (which I choose to) and remain loyal to the belief in an ALL Powerful Deity. I find it much easier to believe in the former, since I'd find it hard to worship a source of power that occasionally disregards the poor souls who reach out expecting miracles. I believe in MAKING miracles via living as good a life as I can....(which Fred Phelps clearly indicates that is not possible....since I'm gay). Which brings me to a final point....Justice: I personally oppose capital punishment....because I think that life lived in a controlled environment is harsher than being given a free pass to the next life. I'm not expecting agreement from anyone and certainly don't believe in judging others' for their differing opinions & beliefs. I just like that we death-hags can openly share thoughts. ~Peace
Lets use Dahmer as an example...DESERVED AND KARMA!
Renowned Death Hag
Definitely someone who got what he deserved.
John Trim On Face Book
On the internet you can be anything you want.
It is strange that so many people choose to be stupid.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
We can all agree on that.
i think jeffery dahmer was karma. others may have been involved. you can read about it on fad.com. very interesting.
all evil people do not die tragicly. pol pot the cambodian dictator or whatever.killed alot of his own people and passed away peacfully in his own bed with his own clothes on. idi amin died peacefully. there was somethong about this in the readers digest about how some of the worst people do not suffer in death and the aboved names were mentioned.
Renowned Death Hag
Well, like Billy Joel once sang, "Only the GOOD die young".
Death Hag Extraordinaire
Life isn't fair or else we would deserve all the bad things that happen to use.I guess Death isn't always fair either.I want to believe in Karma, it makes "My Name Is Earl" easier to watch.
Tying into my personal views on capital punishment (in another thread), there is some justice to the concept of living a long (and hopefully long-suffering) life for some. Sometimes I think that stuff just happens.
Wow Sock Puppet your post was excellent really put it all in perspective...I have always believed in what goes around comes around but I'm really thinking now!
Renowned Death Hag
isn't deserved and karma the same thing?
I don't really believe in it. I do think that Bonnie Lee Bakely was truly a vile person on multiple levels but I can't make the call she deserved a bullet in the face.
I have always believed that was a set up...they don't make cannibals trustees or put them on bathroom detail in the joint...would love to see more of these killers set up...I'm a firm believer in GENERAL POPULATION...let the inmates sort them out!
Renowned Death Hag
wow, sock puppet.
very cool.
I a ma BIG believer in karma. but there's also the "wrong place at the wrong time" thing as well.
Karma or the fickle finger of fate?
Great insight Sock for a great question.
im with you aries. i have lost alot of good friends and don't understand why. as far as karma goes, if its well deserved it should happen because no one deserves to be abused by others and get away with it. its happened to me too many times
Death Hag
I'm a believer in reincarnation and therefore also of the concept of karma. In my concept, it's not a matter of whether a person "deserves" what they get, but part of the many layers of experience of a particular soul and what they earn in a particular life. For me, it's actually comforting because I know that whatever happened, it was meant to. I don't feel "mad" at God as some people do, or ask "why?"....I tend to think murderers and murder victims had a past association in a past life. Also, there's a philosophy that says that murder is one of the cycles every person must go through before they reach perfection. (i.e. we must all be murdered and murder at least once). Going through that low, terrible and animal experience is the only way to leave the experience far behind. Transcending all the pain almost requires an experience of the pain before it can be overcome. Hope that makes sense. It gives me a sense of understanding and comfort when I read the tragic stories here, not only of celebs but "regular" people..........
Some seem like Karma but others don't
I'm picking up a lot of negativity in regards to Karma. With things like "Karma is a bitch" or "They're gonna get what's coming to them because of karma." etc.
Well I think that Karma applies when you do good things too. "What goes around, comes around" can apply to doing good deeds as well.
So what do you think? Is karma just for bad things or bad and good things?
Renowned Death Hag
I believe in "karma points" - which you earn if you do good or bad. Karma works both ways, and you cash in those "chips" when it's time...
i think karma can be good aswell, i will try to explain what i mean best i can cause it sounded messed up in my head.....damn voices
its like if you find some money and hand it in, something good will happen to you like you mite win the lottery or you will have a good week
i don't think some people deserve good karma when they do bad things, but sometimes that's always the way and people who do good things never get good karma
sorry if i confused anyone
dosent look any better than it sounded in my head lmao
I believe Karma goes both ways. That is why when something good happens to me, I try to do something nice for someone else and pass it on.
Renowned Death Hag
My understanding, right or wrong, is basically you bring on your own karma; i.e. you live a good life, good comes back to you; you give other people crap, you get that back, too.
Death Hag Extraordinaire
Karma works both ways, good and bad. At least that's mho.
The most dangerous woman of all is the one who refuses to rely on your sword to save her because she carries her own.
- R.H. Sin
Renowned Death Hag
"You get what you reflect..."
Administrator
I am living proof that Karma can be a good thing.
I spent 14 years caring for my mama, who was a paranoid skizhophrinic. Most of that time she made my life a living hell. Drunk fits, sober fits, suicide threats and attempts, verbal and physical abuse, and one night she committed herself to a mental hospital to keep from killing me. I never ever did anything to that woman to deserve what she shelled out. I took her to the doctor, to the drug store, to the human resource department, the mental health department, fetched her groceries, took her to the food bank; plus did all of this for her mother, too.
I was trapped there because I didn't have enough money for my own place.
Then I met the man who would become my husband. He swept me away from all that chaos and gave me a better life.
If that isn't good karma, I don't know what is.
I understand what you mean. Just because we do something good doesn't guarentee that something good will happen to us.i think karma can be good aswell, i will try to explain what i mean best i can cause it sounded messed up in my head.....damn voices
its like if you find some money and hand it in, something good will happen to you like you mite win the lottery or you will have a good week
i don't think some people deserve good karma when they do bad things, but sometimes that's always the way and people who do good things never get good karma
sorry if i confused anyone
dosent look any better than it sounded in my head lmao
It can't always be "karma" for the reason why things turn out the way they do. There could be other reasons or it is just the way it is.
Last edited by GrinReaper; 06-18-2008 at 01:00 PM.
Wow! Thank you for sharing that excellent example. I hope that things are still continuing to be going well for you.
After that chaos it seems like you got what you deserved.
yeah thanks for making it clearer for other people lol
When we read that someone has done something positive, there's much less of a kneejerk reaction to say "just wait, something good's coming back to you".
I think alot of times negativity is all in the perception. Further, there's a HUGE difference between contempt and negativity. On a site that is specifically about death, which largely deals with murders or otherwise people having their lives taken from them, I think there may be a bit more contempt and disdain expressed than well wishes. It's the nature of death and it's the effect of death on the living.
Renowned Death Hag
I believe it goes both ways, yeah. We're just wired up to notice the negative stuff first. We also expect instant gratification, so we expect to do a good deed or purposely go out in the world to be a positive person, and expect some big "ta da" good thing to happen to us that day, or that week, tops.
Generally, just taking the positive road, doing some little things to make _you_ feel better (ever put a quarter in an about-to-expire parking meter? that's fun!) will make you more awake to the good stuff in your life, and takes your focus away from the stuff that doesn't go so well. As a naturally rather negative person, I have to remind myself this _constantly_!
Renowned Death Hag
I feel karma is to be passed along as a good thing. Even if someone does something awful, do something thoughtful and it might change their day. Even in the littlest way. Sounds corny but that's what I was taught and I believe (for the most part).
Wanna see my grandkids?
There is good karma, and there is bad karma... One of the problems that people have with the reciprocal nature of karma is that it can take weeks, months, or even years before the payback (good or bad) is visited upon the person. Return karma is not time-dependent at all, so it can be difficult to see a distinct realtionship between outgoing karma and incoming karma.
If you are good to others, at some point, something good will happen for you.. If you are nasty to others, at some point something equally nasty will happen to you. The wheels of karma grind slowly, but they do grind exceedingly small..
Renowned Death Hag
I definitely think it works both ways. I just think it's gonna be a bitch when someone does something bad.
Administrator
is the easiest explanation about Karma. Simplified, if you will. From Wiki: The philosophical explanation of karma can differ slightly between traditions, but the general concept is basically the same. Through the law of karma, the effects of all deeds actively create past, present, and future experiences, thus making one responsible for one's own life, and the pain and joy it brings to him/her and others. The results or 'fruits' of actions are called karma-phala. In religions that incorporate reincarnation, karma extends through one's present life and all past and future lives as well.
More here on the theory of Karma: http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/karma.htm
I personally don't know a thing about good or bad karma. I just believe in doing the right thing as often as possible. People fuck up; what can you do? I mean, do I get bad karma points because I accidentally cut some old lady off in the parking lot of the 7-11? If it's an honest mistake--for which I'd truly be sorry--does that count against me?
I don't much care for human beings dictating to me what constitutes "good and bad karma." It seems to me that the people who most often say "karma is a bitch" believe they are above reproach, and none of us are. The people who commit senseless acts of cruelty and violence hardly give a damn about karma, and I (as a Christian,) think that God will handle their "karma" in His own way.
The way my mind works--and I fully realize that I'm not always firing on all eight cylinders--is that I believe you should just be good to other beings because it's the right thing to do. It's not about points, good or bad. It's about being decent. If I spend my whole life being decent and never catch a "good karma break," I've still been decent. I'm not doing it for the karma points. Doing something for "good karma points" is self-absorbed, and if you're merely looking for a reward, you're doing good for the wrong reason.
My personal grasp is that "bad" karma is earned by intentionally doing something wrong or bad.. Therefore accidents would not count. I don't do anything for "points" ever, but I believe that karma does equal out in the end, if you understand what I mean. If you are doing anything good specifically for a reward (karma or otherwise), you are cheating yourself,imho. I do things for others because I want to, not beause I am looking for some sort of reward.
Whatever you give in life will always come back to you good or bad.
The house I bought last year was advertised as having good karma. The minute I walked in I knew this was the house for me.
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