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Thread: Anne Frank

  1. #1

    Anne Frank

    Anne Franks father survived and has set up the place they hid out in all those years up for people to visit. I don't think that it is exactly as it was then but it is pretty close and there is also a museum you can visit close to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellycatt1 View Post
    Anne Franks father survived and has set up the place they hid out in all those years up for people to visit. I don't think that it is exactly as it was then but it is pretty close and there is also a museum you can visit close to it.
    [SIZE=3]One of the places I've always wanted to visit...The Anne Frank House. [/SIZE]
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  3. #3
    [Anne Franks father survived and has set up the place they hid out in all those years up for people to visit. I don't think that it is exactly as it was then but it is pretty close and there is also a museum you can visit close to it.[/quote]

    I actually took time to visit Anne Franks House in the old Portugese Jewish Quarter in Amsterdam. Although I am by no means a historical expert from the people that work there it is the house and just about everything in it was authetic to that period and belonged to the people that lived there. I would of been horrified to live in those sad circumstances..I truly feel for those that had to undergo such brutal torture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
    whoa. ya, it would.

    l was torn, reading Anne Frank's diary. part of me felt it was good that her dad had it published, to teach us of what it was like for them. but another part of me felt guily for reading her private thoughts. just my feelings on it.
    I feel that way anytime I read someone's diary.

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    I have always wanted to be able to visit the Anne Frank house and one of the concentration camps. Alas I think it will be just one of those dreams.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BeeCee View Post
    [SIZE=3]One of the places I've always wanted to visit...The Anne Frank House. [/SIZE]

    If you ever get the chance to go it certainly doesn't disappoint.

    My dad gave me the diary when I was a kid, he said "read this, we're visiting next month". i looked at the diary he'd given me of a foreign girl and wondered what the hell he was going on about.

    One of the most touching books I ever read, couldn't wait to go to the house after I read that. It sent shivers down my spine looking at the pictures she'd put on the wall. The museum wasn't really developed then so another trip is in order.

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    i have been to the ANNE FRANK HOUSE.Had trouble finding it,it was an amazing experience,the book doesn't tell the story any well near as well as visiting the house though.

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    My Dad was in the Polish Army and a Stalag Prisoner of war survivior, Stalag 12A to be exact, He didnt discuss it, but Ive been on a big research thing! I used to sit and watch "Hogans Heroes" and the movie "The Great Escape" with him he used to laugh at the American interrpretation of it all in film and TV he was bright! He came to Australia via Naples and never discussed any of it only hinted at it in his love of film and TV like I have said! He was also at Nurembuerg he said in a artillery sense guarding the trials! Ive yet to confirm that tho!
    On the news today they want to chop down the tree Anne Frank wrote about outside her apt as they say it is dying! If its dying let it die, as long as its not a danger and it could be supported so it isnt! Let it die like trees did before humans got to them!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cherryghost View Post
    Of course it happened, like the 2nd World War happened!
    The Germans are struggling to come to terms with it as are many european countries even today! Many countries and people suffered, the gypsy's were almost wiped out but there was not accounting for their numbers because they were gypsies! Apparently there were just as many if not more gypsies gassed but they are not on record of course.
    The gays, artists,bohemians,gypsies as well as the jews. To recognise the true atrocieties we must suspend all hatred and get down to proper research of individuals and circumstance. That is why Anne Frank is a great example she was one individual amongst millions!
    you are absolutely right, cherry.... i really wanted this thread to discuss any holocaust victim, gay-jewish-gypsy-bohemian-artist-dissident-resistant-disabled person - whoever!

    i saw the musical "cabaret" today at my son's college... what a fantastic play and music... at the end the emcee of the kit kat club is marched into a death camp... i was crying, of course!!!

    random things i learned today... the sign on the gates to dachau said
    "work will set you free".... also, male homosexual acts were outlawed in germany from 1871 to 1994...
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    Quote Originally Posted by W Axl Rose View Post
    If you ever get the chance to go it certainly doesn't disappoint.

    My dad gave me the diary when I was a kid, he said "read this, we're visiting next month". i looked at the diary he'd given me of a foreign girl and wondered what the hell he was going on about.

    One of the most touching books I ever read, couldn't wait to go to the house after I read that. It sent shivers down my spine looking at the pictures she'd put on the wall. The museum wasn't really developed then so another trip is in order.
    Great idea reading the book before you go - your dad sounds like a wise man. I haven't read it in a very long time so it would be a good idea to read it again before going - if I ever get my act together to do that. I think it's great that it's still standard reading for Jr. high/middle school age kids...so they'll read it when they're the same age as Anne when she wrote it.

    The first I heard of the various atrocities was when I was in about 3rd or 4th grade. An older boy in my neighborhood was telling us about it after he had been studying it in school that day. It seemed the most surreal thing I had ever heard of...I honestly thought he was making it up at first. The films we saw later in high school depressed me for months. You would have to be capable of some pretty creative denial to not believe that actually happened.
    Last edited by BeeCee; 05-03-2010 at 03:41 AM.
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    When I was in college, I took an Intro to Theatre class. Throughout the semester, we saw various local plays, and I'll never forget one play we saw was a musical adaptation of The Diary of Anne Frank...It seemed so inappropriate, but it worked!!!

    Speaking of inappropriate musicals, anyone ever hear the songs from the musical adaptation of Silence of the Lambs?

    http://www.jonandal.com/index.shtml

    These are some hilarious songs....I guess it's real close to ending up off Broadway as well:

    http://www.silencethemusicallive.com/

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    I read the Anne book about a year ago.
    There was one thing I did not understand, maybe someone can clear it up.
    She talks about the family "giving" things (a Philco radio, maybe) to pay-off somebody.
    If only a few knew they were in hiding, who was the payoff to?
    I was puzzled over that.

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    Thanks for posting this thread!

    I remember reading Anne Frank's Diary when I was a kid and it became the beginning of years of research. When I was 19/20 I taught english in Poland and had the opportunity to go to Treblinka and Auschwitz/Berkenau. Oh my god. What an experience. When the Nazis found out the Allies were on the move to Treblinka they set about tearing the whole thing down and paving over much of it. But it's still so eerie now. It's set out in this forrest - they planted trees to cover it up as well - and there are no buildings. The only things there are these cement lines to represent the railroad line that brought the people in, along with a platform. There is a giant pit filled with twisted and melted black plastic to show where the "burning pit" had been. There is this stone monument as well to a Pollish teacher who was with his students when they were rounded up - the Nazis were rounding up Jews at the time and told him he could leave them - but he wouldn't. He stayed so they wouldn't be afraid and he stayed right up to his body being tossed into the burning pit. And all in this field are loads of giant rocks with the names of all the countries of the prisoners on them. Then there are thousands of smaller rocks with no names, but each one represents a town or village. It rocked my young world and I could not stop crying while I was there - on a field trip with the school and the director of the school was our guide. It was so eerily still there and when one of the other teachers commented on how quiet it was, the director explained that even though a forrest had grown up, no animals lived there, no birds, no nothing. In the middle of summer in Poland, ther was no fly, mosquito or bee. It was amazing and I'll never forget it.

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    i have been to the anne frank house in holland, and it was a memorable experience. it seemed so small, so quiet and unobtrusive. to see her room, and the rest of the rooms where the family lived for so long was incredible. downstairs was the academy award shelly winters won for her supporting actress role in the movie. it was a sad and yet wondrous experience.

    the anne frank house in amsterdam
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    I dont know how many people are aware of this but there is a awsomely shot short vid of Anne Frank on YouTube. Its been authenticated by the anne frank museum to be the real deal.

    Its the only known video image of her that exists. Footage taken during a neighbor's wedding on July 22, 1941, a year before before Anne and her family were forced into hiding to avoid the Nazis during their World War II occupation of the Netherlands.
    YouTube channel also has a video about the making of a 3-D virtual version of the secret annex concealed in an Amsterdam canalside house where the Frank family hid for 25 months until they were betrayed and deported by the Nazi SS.

    Anne died aged 15 of typhus in the German concentration camp of Bergen-Belsen, seven months after her arrest and just two weeks before British and Canadian troops liberated the camp

    http://news.aol.com/article/youtube-...frank%2F700123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever-27 View Post
    I dont know how many people are aware of this but there is a awsomely shot short vid of Anne Frank on YouTube. Its been authenticated by the anne frank museum to be the real deal.

    Its the only known video image of her that exists. Footage taken during a neighbor's wedding on July 22, 1941, a year before before Anne and her family were forced into hiding to avoid the Nazis during their World War II occupation of the Netherlands.
    YouTube channel also has a video about the making of a 3-D virtual version of the secret annex concealed in an Amsterdam canalside house where the Frank family hid for 25 months until they were betrayed and deported by the Nazi SS.

    Anne died aged 15 of typhus in the German concentration camp of Bergen-Belsen, seven months after her arrest and just two weeks before British and Canadian troops liberated the camp

    http://news.aol.com/article/youtube-shows-video-of-anne-frank/700123?icid=main|htmlws-sb|dl1|link4|http%3A%2F%2Fnews.aol.com%2Farticle%2Fyoutube-shows-video-of-anne-frank%2F700123

    i saw it. very short. but very neat to see her moving...see her ALIVE.
    bittersweet.

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    Anne Frank's diary is a book I re-visit from time to time. It's a wonderful book. I have visited her house - and found is very moving.

    The Holocaust is a period of history that must be remembered forever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvonne View Post
    Anne Frank's diary is a book I re-visit from time to time. It's a wonderful book. I have visited her house - and found is very moving.

    The Holocaust is a period of history that must be remembered forever.
    Indeed, it is a very moving experience.

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    Anne Frank's Secret Hiding Rooms On Virtual Display

    You can now see the secret rooms where Anne Frank hid and wrote her diary during the Nazi occupation of Amsterdam without leaving home.The museum that owns the home is launching an online virtual tour of the rooms.

    For two years, Anne Frank, her family, and other Jews hid in a cramped group of rooms tucked into the back of a house in Amsterdam.Anne, who died in a concentration camp in 1945 and lived on through her famous diary, described in detail what life was like hiding from the German secret police during the Nazi occupation.The tour captures in graphic detail photographs on the wall, the print on the bedspreads, and the tiny kitchen in the cramped space where eight people lived until they were betrayed to the Nazis.

    Go to: http://www.annefrank.org/
    http://www.findadeath.com/forum/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=1752&dateline=1264924651

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    Wow! I really enjoyed the virtual tour

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    I loved the tour.
    She is so funny, now I gotta read her diary.
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    I visited the Annex in Amsterdam in 1980 when I went to Europe. An amazing place, very small and loved seeing all the pictures that Anne had pasted on her wall such as Shirley Temple. Of course there was glass (or maybe it was plastic) over the walls so people couldn't steal what she had pasted. Probably the most interesting part of the trip was the gypsies who tried to steal my purse when I left there.
    In memory of a wonderful actor who left us way too soon - William Holden 1918-1981.

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    I hope to visit the Annex some day, but the virtual tour will do for now.

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    Wow! I've visited the Anne Frank web site a few times but never saw the virtual tour. That was great...thanks for posting! I recently re-read the diary, a bio (Anne Frank Remembered) and the book written in part by Miep Gies as my interest in the subject seems to have resurfaced once again.

    This is a very late reference to an earlier post (2007) by Finnegan who said,

    "l was torn, reading Anne Frank's diary. part of me felt it was good that her dad had it published, to teach us of what it was like for them. but another part of me felt guily for reading her private thoughts."

    I recall feeling a bit the same way too. Apparently though, Anne might have been okay with the idea as she was planning to publish (at least parts of) it after the war. She was even starting to re-vamp sections the last few months prior to their capture. In the long run, it was definitely the best thing I think...her words remain forever a precious gift and testament to the lost potential of so many and a perfect contrast to the vile hatred of that time. I don’t think any other work of literature of any kind has ever touched so many so deeply.
    Last edited by BeeCee; 05-03-2010 at 08:16 AM. Reason: to delete unnessary coding
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    I have visited both the Anne Frank House in Amsterdam and Bergen Belsen concentration camp, where she perished together with her sister and is burried in one of the mass graves ´created by the Brits when they liberated the camp... I have also read and reread the diary, both versions.. the old one and the new one with extra materials released after Otto Frank´s death.. showing Anne as less than a saint and more like a real girl of 15 years... I do not in any way feel bad about reading it...as Beecee wrote Anne was planning to publish the diary after the war calling it "The Back House". she wanted to tell her story to the world... a quote from Anne herself is: I want to go on living ever after I am gone"... so in my opinion, we by reading the diary, talking about it and learning from it.. help fulfill Anne´s own wish.

    Just my opinion

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnneBoleyn View Post
    .. showing Anne as less than a saint and more like a real girl of 15 years...


    My thoughts exactly! And I also got the feeling that she would have balked at the idea that she was in any way a goody two-shoes...she was way too honest and genuine to assume that kind of role.
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    Haven't these idiots got better things to do than baptise dead people?
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilmpenny View Post
    Haven't these idiots got better things to do than baptise dead people?
    Yes, they do have better things to do. They just don't do them.

    Oh and Neil, if I survive you, I'm going to send them your name as a sort of final salute to a fallen brother.

    I'm sure that you will appreciate the gesture and would do the same for me.

    Like a girl I once knew who went to synagogue on Saturday and mass on Sunday said: "It can't hurt to hedge your bets."



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    I haved read her diary a couple times. The first time it really effected me. I loved reading and I think her's was the first one that touched me to tears....My Grandfather from Germany also read it and cried. All he would say is Germany was beautiful at one time. The world was beautiful at one time...along time ago...those are words I'm going to always remember. My Grandfather didn't say much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Without Pity View Post
    I haved read her diary a couple times. The first time it really effected me. I loved reading and I think her's was the first one that touched me to tears....My Grandfather from Germany also read it and cried. All he would say is Germany was beautiful at one time. The world was beautiful at one time...along time ago...those are words I'm going to always remember. My Grandfather didn't say much.
    I, too, read the Diary when I was fairly young and was really moved by it.

    The play had even more impact on me. We did "The Diary of Anne Frank" in my sophomore year in high school. I played the thoroughly reprehensible Mr. Van Dann, Peter's father. My big scene was when I got caught stealing bread in the middle of the night. Which, I am afraid, is probably much closer to how I really would have behaved in that situation than most of the other characters.

    I also especially remember the scene at the end of Act I where they all joined hands in a circle and sang the Channuka song.

    The public library had a cassette tape with sounds of World War II and one of the tracks was a bit of one of Hitler's Nuremberg speeches and I used to listen to that before the show to help me get to the emotional space that I needed to be in (God that sounds so "Actor's Studio" ). I didn't understand a word of German at the time, but by the time Hitler was done ranting and raving and they started singing "Deutschland, Deutschland ueber alles . . ." I was chilled to the bone.

    Bergen-Belsen is not far from here, just about 90 minutes by car, up on the Lueneberg Heath. The rest of the Lueneberger Heide is lovely, but Bergen-Belsen is one of the most sombering places on earth that I have ever seen. There is an urban legend of sorts that says that birds refuse to sing there. The only other place that even comes close is maybe Verdun (which looks like the surface of the moon) or the acres and acres of graves around Ypres. But Bergen-Belsen especially got to me because I knew that is where Anne died.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebud666 View Post
    Yes, they do have better things to do. They just don't do them.

    Oh and Neil, if I survive you, I'm going to send them your name as a sort of final salute to a fallen brother.

    I'm sure that you will appreciate the gesture and would do the same for me.

    Like a girl I once knew who went to synagogue on Saturday and mass on Sunday said: "It can't hurt to hedge your bets."
    Atheist dude. No way will they baptise me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilmpenny View Post
    Atheist dude. No way will they baptise me.
    I know you are, but that is exactly the point: they don't care if you are an atheist or not. They will baptize you anyway and hope it sticks.

    The LDS Church teaches that those in the afterlife who have been baptized by proxy are free to accept or reject the ordinance done on their behalf. Baptism on behalf of a deceased individual is not binding if that individual chooses to reject it in the afterlife.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_for_the_dead


    So no fears, you can still go on being an atheist happily ever after.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebud666 View Post
    I, too, read the Diary when I was fairly young and was really moved by it.

    The play had even more impact on me. We did "The Diary of Anne Frank" in my sophomore year in high school. I played the thoroughly reprehensible Mr. Van Dann, Peter's father. My big scene was when I got caught stealing bread in the middle of the night. Which, I am afraid, is probably much closer to how I really would have behaved in that situation than most of the other characters.

    I also especially remember the scene at the end of Act I where they all joined hands in a circle and sang the Channuka song.

    The public library had a cassette tape with sounds of World War II and one of the tracks was a bit of one of Hitler's Nuremberg speeches and I used to listen to that before the show to help me get to the emotional space that I needed to be in (God that sounds so "Actor's Studio" ). I didn't understand a word of German at the time, but by the time Hitler was done ranting and raving and they started singing "Deutschland, Deutschland ueber alles . . ." I was chilled to the bone.

    Bergen-Belsen is not far from here, just about 90 minutes by car, up on the Lueneberg Heath. The rest of the Lueneberger Heide is lovely, but Bergen-Belsen is one of the most sombering places on earth that I have ever seen. There is an urban legend of sorts that says that birds refuse to sing there. The only other place that even comes close is maybe Verdun (which looks like the surface of the moon) or the acres and acres of graves around Ypres. But Bergen-Belsen especially got to me because I knew that is where Anne died.
    I guess we should all be touched by her diary...and the horrors that happened. Having my family flee Germany, I would like to someday visit there. He wanted us to see the beautiful side and not the side he left....although I think out of respect I would want to go see it all.



    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebud666 View Post
    I know you are, but that is exactly the point: they don't care if you are an atheist or not. They will baptize you anyway and hope it sticks.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_for_the_dead


    So no fears, you can still go on being an atheist happily ever after.

    Ok, I lived in the Mormon state for 2 years, I never heard about this baptising the dead....WTH? Sounds like a Mormon thing. No offense to Mormons but you all treated my family horrible because we weren't mormon
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    Quote Originally Posted by JefeStone View Post
    Colbert proxy circumcising all dead Mormons.

    That is the funniest thing I have seen all day - except maybe for the fart thread!

    By all due respect, I do sometimes think that Mormons are from another planet. I used to have fun debating missionaries when they accosted me, but I no longer do that unless provoked. I told the last one who came to the door that of course I worship God - I am a Druid and was bathed in the blood of a tree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Town Without Pity View Post
    I guess we should all be touched by her diary...and the horrors that happened. Having my family flee Germany, I would like to someday visit there. He wanted us to see the beautiful side and not the side he left....although I think out of respect I would want to go see it all.



    Ok, I lived in the Mormon state for 2 years, I never heard about this baptising the dead....WTH? Sounds like a Mormon thing. No offense to Mormons but you all treated my family horrible because we weren't mormon
    Do you know where your grandfather came from in Germany? Maybe it's near here . . . if it's near a railway or bus station (no car), I could go snap some photos for you some time.

    Did he ever say what he did to get on the Nazi's "shit list"? The way you describe him, he must have been a fine fellow.

    You might also be interested in this old thread: http://www.findadeath.com/forum/show...light=Northeim

    One highly readable, groundbreaking, and easily obtainable book that I can highly recommend is William Sheridan Allen's The Nazi Seizure of Power: The Experience of a Single German Town 1922-1945 (originally published in 1965, Franklin Watts Publishing, ISBN: 0531056333).

    This book was especially riveting for me because the town in the book, Northeim, was my home for eight years. I know some of the people mentioned in it, or their decendents. I gave it to my teenage son to read, and he discovered the last names of some of his classmates.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Town Without Pity View Post
    Ok, I lived in the Mormon state for 2 years, I never heard about this baptising the dead....WTH? Sounds like a Mormon thing. No offense to Mormons but you all treated my family horrible because we weren't mormon
    Well I am Mormon, and anyone treating you horrible because you aren't Mormon is utter and total crap and I am sorry you were treated like that. I also think anyone doing baptisms for the dead without the authority to do so should be booted out of the church. The rules are to get permission and really - to do your own family members, first and foremost. For what its worth - what goes around comes around and I get treated like crap plenty because I am Mormon so it cuts both ways.
    Regards,
    Tamie
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  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebud666 View Post
    That is the funniest thing I have seen all day - except maybe for the fart thread!

    By all due respect, I do sometimes think that Mormons are from another planet. I used to have fun debating missionaries when they accosted me, but I no longer do that unless provoked. I told the last one who came to the door that of course I worship God - I am a Druid and was bathed in the blood of a tree.
    Yes, I do feel the respect there.
    Regards,
    Tamie
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    When you are dead, you don't know you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are stupid.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by neilmpenny View Post
    Haven't these idiots got better things to do than baptise dead people?
    Nope!! Between that and spending my time on FAD, I am totally maxed out!!
    Regards,
    Tamie
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    When you are dead, you don't know you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are stupid.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebud666 View Post
    Yes, they do have better things to do. They just don't do them.

    Oh and Neil, if I survive you, I'm going to send them your name as a sort of final salute to a fallen brother.

    I'm sure that you will appreciate the gesture and would do the same for me.

    Like a girl I once knew who went to synagogue on Saturday and mass on Sunday said: "It can't hurt to hedge your bets."
    Hey Rosebud, please elaborate please, I need the guidance, I guess......

    Well, I came to read about Anne Frank - a favorite topic of mine. Stepping out now....
    Regards,
    Tamie
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    When you are dead, you don't know you are dead. It is difficult only for the others. It is the same when you are stupid.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamiele View Post
    Well I am Mormon, and anyone treating you horrible because you aren't Mormon is utter and total crap and I am sorry you were treated like that. I also think anyone doing baptisms for the dead without the authority to do so should be booted out of the church. The rules are to get permission and really - to do your own family members, first and foremost. For what its worth - what goes around comes around and I get treated like crap plenty because I am Mormon so it cuts both ways.
    Well very nice to meet you Tamiele And yes unfortunatly, I did see it go both ways. It's a shame, Utah is a very beautiful state.
    "A day without laughter is a day wasted." - Charlie Chaplin


  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosebud666 View Post
    Do you know where your grandfather came from in Germany? Maybe it's near here . . . if it's near a railway or bus station (no car), I could go snap some photos for you some time.

    Did he ever say what he did to get on the Nazi's "shit list"? The way you describe him, he must have been a fine fellow.

    Actually I've been working my family tree and I am so close to cracking the Germany area...it seems they moved to Russia after leaving Germany and the boarders were changing alot ....I have his records coming to america but it tells only the place he left from. I will most definatly send you a place name once I find it That would be awsome. I will check out the links and the book


    You might also be interested in this old thread: http://www.findadeath.com/forum/show...light=Northeim

    One highly readable, groundbreaking, and easily obtainable book that I can highly recommend is William Sheridan Allen's The Nazi Seizure of Power: The Experience of a Single German Town 1922-1945 (originally published in 1965, Franklin Watts Publishing, ISBN: 0531056333).

    This book was especially riveting for me because the town in the book, Northeim, was my home for eight years. I know some of the people mentioned in it, or their decendents. I gave it to my teenage son to read, and he discovered the last names of some of his classmates.
    "A day without laughter is a day wasted." - Charlie Chaplin


  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamiele View Post
    Well I am Mormon, and anyone treating you horrible because you aren't Mormon is utter and total crap and I am sorry you were treated like that. I also think anyone doing baptisms for the dead without the authority to do so should be booted out of the church. The rules are to get permission and really - to do your own family members, first and foremost. For what its worth - what goes around comes around and I get treated like crap plenty because I am Mormon so it cuts both ways.
    Quote Originally Posted by tamiele View Post
    Yes, I do feel the respect there.
    Quote Originally Posted by tamiele View Post
    Hey Rosebud, please elaborate please, I need the guidance, I guess......

    Well, I came to read about Anne Frank - a favorite topic of mine. Stepping out now....
    I hope I didn't offend you - that certainly wasn't my intention.

    Being entirely serious for once, let me state for the record that I like Mormons. I like their focus on family and extended family and admire their resourcefulness and their courage in the face of persecution. Even the "holy underwear" doesn't seem that odd once you have had it explained to you properly. There are other aspects of Mormon theology, however, that never cease to puzzle me.

    If I didn't have any affection for Mormons at all, I wouldn't bother to make fun of them. Sort of like when I was a kid and friends told me "if we didn't like you, we wouldn't tease you".

    I'm just not a big fan of being prosletyzed, I guess. I like my evangelism to be more subtile and relational. I would and have pulled the same "Druid baptized in the blood of a tree" schtick with Baptists and Jehova's Witnesses, too - but they took it with less good humor. I've never been approached by the Jews, and the Episcopalians rejected my application.

    I really like Neil (what's not to like?) and I knew I could wind him up a little with the "threat" to have him baptized. Plus his situation is a perfect example of the absurdity of posthumeous baptism and less emotionally charged than baptizing Jewish girls who died in concentration camps. Personally, I think God's grace is available to anyone (even Neil ) if he or she wants it even after death, even without physical baptism.

    You are correct in noting that the doctrine of the LDS church is much more complicated than the general public knows, and the church seems to be changing its stance almost daily.

    Like with so many disputes about the nature of the sacraments or Biblical authority, I think it is all quickly cleared away by saying that these things are what God wants them to be, whenever and wherever God wants them to be. If God can turn bread into flesh and wine into blood, then God can just as easily turn them back into bread and wine when the mice get into the sacristy. The rest is all just counting angels on pinheads.

    I know there was something else I wanted to say, but I'm suddenly having a Rick Perry moment here, so I guess it will have to wait.

    Oh yeah . . . the girl who went to the synagogue on Saturday and mass on Sunday (I'm certain that neither Rabbi Sarah nor Father Mike would have been especially pleased) illustrates perfectly the idea a lot of people have that religion is some kind of divine insurance policy and that you will be set for the afterlife if you just back the right God. Faith in God is not about following the rules like some kind of goody two-shoes - it is about love and grattitude for the gift of life.

    For the record, in the 2008 Simpsons Halloween special, Krusty the Clown revealed that the one true religion is a synthesis, but basically Buddhism mixed with a little Methodist.
    Last edited by Rosebud666; 02-25-2012 at 11:27 PM.



    You be careful out among them English.
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  44. #44
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    TWoP, if your grandfather came from anywhere within a 150 mile radius of Goettingen, I'm there!

    My son is going to be moving to Berlin soon, so that will also extend my radius of action a little further to the east.

    If your grandfather turns out to have come from Eastern Prussia, then its going to take a little longer. That's further away in Poland now, and among other things, I would need to get my passport replaced first.



    You be careful out among them English.
    Don't mess with the banjo player - he's hard core, dude!
    Catch my music on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9ve...aaqUrXEEcb50Y2
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  45. #45
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    I would have had that figured out by now had I not put the family tree on hold because I'm hanging out on FAD more often...lol...I have several books to go through, Sons of the Pioneers from Germany & Russia that I know my family is in, I just have to read all the books...no indexs...lol...my answer is there...but although intresting read it's also a boring read at times...lol
    "A day without laughter is a day wasted." - Charlie Chaplin


  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamiele View Post
    Nope!! Between that and spending my time on FAD, I am totally maxed out!!
    I apologise if I offended you. My remark was directed at the idiots conducting the baptism, not Mormons in general.
    I am a sick puppy....woof woof!!!

    Carping the living shit out of the Diem. - Me!!
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  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by tamiele View Post
    Nope!! Between that and spending my time on FAD, I am totally maxed out!!
    I've been doing penance. You can read the results here: http://www.findadeath.com/forum/show...61#post1264361



    You be careful out among them English.
    Don't mess with the banjo player - he's hard core, dude!
    Catch my music on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9ve...aaqUrXEEcb50Y2
    https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100009366909869

  48. #48
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    Anne Frank

    I was surprised we didn't have a thread on her. Friday was the 70th anniversary of her last entry. And tomorrow is the 70th anniversary of the day the family was arrested. She was 15, so there is a decent chance she would be alive today if not for the Nazis.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_frank

  49. #49
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    Ozzy, my boy <3 You were my snuggle buddy and I will forever remember our movie nights and warm glasses of milk.....xoxo, rest in peace my sweet boy....

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    Sorry! I did a search. I don't know how I could have missed that. Could a mod merge my post with the other thread?

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