Marine's Dad Forced to Pay Expenses for Group Who Disrupted Funeral

[STsFirstmate]

This is going up my ass sideways and backwards. I have seen these assholes first hand and they are beneath contempt.
This is a real case of as Melville said in Billy Budd "The law not justice" prevailing.
There has been legislation propose to make it a crime to disrupt a milipary funeral. Please write to you reps to urge it is passed into Federal Law. This NOT a first ammendment issue and I am a card acrrying ACLU member.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/03/30/...ex.html?hpt=T2

http://info.sen.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bil..._asm_comm.html
Regards,
Mary

[Gorey]

Mr. Gorey will be furious when he reads this. He is a member of the Patriot Guard motorcycle club that forms flag lines between the funerals and protesters. That father shouldn't have to pay a dime for anything to do with those people's protest. Why aren't they making the protesters pay?? You can bet our Representatives will hear from us.

[Jack-O-Lantern]

Infuriating. I do NOT understand this.

[Seagorath]

If somebody walked into Westboro Baptist Church with an AR-15 and mowed down the entire congregation I wouldn't lose one wink of sleep over it.

[Nvr_Sk_to_Tll]

If somebody walked into Westboro Baptist Church with an AR-15 and mowed down the entire congregation I wouldn't lose one wink of sleep over it.

But you know that rather than being lauded as they deserve (I know, I know, killing is bad, but some people don't deserve to be wasting space and air) the person who did the mowing would get the stiffest sentence/penalty EVER...

[Seagorath]

True...I'm just sick of readin' about 'em.

But you know that rather than being lauded as they deserve (I know, I know, killing is bad, but some people don't deserve to be wasting space and air) the person who did the mowing would get the stiffest sentence/penalty EVER...

[p00key]

That's awful

[DietCokeofEvil]

I'm angry. Really really angry. I don't know anyone in Iraq personally, so I have no personal investment in being angry, but this just goes beyond ridiculousness.

Especially this part:
"The justices will be asked to address how far states and private entities such as cemeteries and churches can go to justify picket-free zones and the use of "floating buffers" to silence or restrict speech or movements of demonstrators exercising their constitutional rights in a funeral setting.

So they are going to possibly limit the right to have a patriot guard at funerals?


I wonder if anyone has ever picketed outside the Phelps church- I would totally be down for that.

[Gorey]

From what I know from my hubby, Patriot Guard are invited by the families of the fallen soldiers. So the law really wouldn't apply to them, I hope. I'll picket the church with you, DCoE. I can think of some really nasty things to put on picket signs for them too.

[Paulination]

I think I read that Bill O'Reilly was going to pick up the tab for this father. I absolutely hate the WBC.

[STsFirstmate]

From what I know from my hubby, Patriot Guard are invited by the families of the fallen soldiers. So the law really wouldn't apply to them, I hope. I'll picket the church with you, DCoE. I can think of some really nasty things to put on picket signs for them too.

Gorey the funerals I have attended where the Patriot Guard was present (at least I think it was them) they actually played hymns and patriotic music over speakers, selected by the family, to drown out the protesters. Thank Mr. Gorey for me. His time and effort is appreciated.
Plus people watch you newspapers and when a local member of our military is laid to rest near you find out if the public is welcome at the graveside service or along the route.
Here on Long Island with the family's permission th route and if welcome the service info is published and people line the route in silent tribute.
The families seem very appreciative and we always feel better for taking the time to go. It keeps the war and their sacrifice real to us.
We must never lose sight of what other's are laying on the line for us regardless of how we feel about the war or how we got there.
Regards,
Mary

[JefeStone]

I totally hate Fred Phelps and everything he stands for, but the Marine's father sued Westboro church and lost. If you sue someone, you should know the that law is that you pay the defendant's court cost. The father's lawyer's had to have told him that before the lawsuit even got off the ground. A lot of law firm pick up the cost of the trial if they lose. It looks like his don't do that.

[STsFirstmate]

I totally hate Fred Phelps and everything he stands for, but the Marine's father sued Westboro church and lost. If you sue someone, you should know the that law is that you pay the defendant's court cost. The father's lawyer's had to have told him that before the lawsuit even got off the ground. A lot of law firm pick up the cost of the trial if they lose. It looks like his don't do that.

I know that justice is blind and that is an important fundemental of our system but jeeze there needs to be a law that allows a family to bury their dead with dignity and peace.
Even if the law only says stay 1000 yards away and keep silent but this is just flat wrong.
Regards,
Mary

[JefeStone]

I know that justice is blind and that is an important fundemental of our system but jeeze there needs to be a law that allows a family to bury their dead with dignity and peace.
Even if the law only says stay 1000 yards away and keep silent but this is just flat wrong.
Regards,
Mary

You are totally right.

[sablegsd]

I think I read that Bill O'Reilly was going to pick up the tab for this father. I absolutely hate the WBC.

Oh I hope he does, that's chump change for him.

This is awful, so fucking wrong.

[Gorey]

Mr. Gorey here. You know some people are only alive because it's illegal to kill them and these a$$h*1s are prime example. They told us they where coming to our area to protest a young mans funeral who was killed by an IED in Bahgdahd. There where over 150 bikes there, they kept on driving, but then even the President accused us of klinging to our bibles and GUNS.

The Patriot Guard will only come if invited by the immediate family of the deceased. They will go for any Veteran from any time of service (wartime or peacetime, any war) or any Police Officer or Fire Fighter.

They will stand a flag line to block the view of the protesters by the family, and they will do this PEACEFULLY and LEGALLY. http://www.patriotguard.org/

Now, the Judge (and I use that title loosely in this case) that said this man has to pay Phelps' legal fee's should be put in the same hole with Phelps. Here in Pa. Senator Pippy sponsored Legislation barring the protestors from being within 500 feet of the funeral at anytime, it passed unanimously and is law.

Personely though, I had family in Iraq, Vietnam, the Cold War, Korea, WWII, and both sides of the Civil War. If they show up at my families funeral all I can say is DUCK!!!!!!
and bring bags. They'll need them.I don't believe in lawsuits, they never seem to be Just. I don't trust those who always cave to the minority, and not the majority, who's paying them?

As for the family of the soldier, I pray that your child has now found peace, I give thanks that you gave him to us to defend our safety and freedom, and I pray that he now walks with the Lord, and I pray for you in your time of sorrow.

In Memory of Uncle Alvin
KIA Iwo Jimo 28Feb1945
Semper Fi young Marine

[imadeathhag]

Mr. Gorey here. You know some people are only alive because it's illegal to kill them and these a$$h*1s are prime example. They told us they where coming to our area to protest a young mans funeral who was killed by an IED in Bahgdahd. There where over 150 bikes there, they kept on driving, but then even the President accused us of klinging to our bibles and GUNS.

The Patriot Guard will only come if invited by the immediate family of the deceased. They will go for any Veteran from any time of service (wartime or peacetime, any war) or any Police Officer or Fire Fighter.

They will stand a flag line to block the view of the protesters by the family, and they will do this PEACEFULLY and LEGALLY. http://www.patriotguard.org/

Now, the Judge (and I use that title loosely in this case) that said this man has to pay Phelps' legal fee's should be put in the same hole with Phelps. Here in Pa. Senator Pippy sponsored Legislation barring the protestors from being within 500 feet of the funeral at anytime, it passed unanimously and is law.

Personely though, I had family in Iraq, Vietnam, the Cold War, Korea, WWII, and both sides of the Civil War. If they show up at my families funeral all I can say is DUCK!!!!!!
and bring bags. They'll need them.I don't believe in lawsuits, they never seem to be Just. I don't trust those who always cave to the minority, and not the majority, who's paying them?

As for the family of the soldier, I pray that your child has now found peace, I give thanks that you gave him to us to defend our safety and freedom, and I pray that he now walks with the Lord, and I pray for you in your time of sorrow.

In Memory of Uncle Alvin
KIA Iwo Jimo 28Feb1945
Semper Fi young Marine

Well said Gorey.

[silverwaif77]

I agree with the first ammendment, HOWEVER there is a time and a place for it. Anyone who comes to a funeral with their offensive propoganda hate speech signs is an asshat and has no empathy for the grieving family. They are only capitalizing on the shock value of what they are doing to get press coverage for their "church". They are entitled to their beliefs but to disrupt a funeral is pathetic, I'm waiting for one of these protesters to get mowed down by a hearse, or a crazy death hag in a blue jetta.

[BooMom]

I agree with the first ammendment, HOWEVER there is a time and a place for it. Anyone who comes to a funeral with their offensive propoganda hate speech signs is an asshat and has no empathy for the grieving family. They are only capitalizing on the shock value of what they are doing to get press coverage for their "church". They are entitled to their beliefs but to disrupt a funeral is pathetic, I'm waiting for one of these protesters to get mowed down by a hearse, or a crazy death hag in a blue jetta.

May this crazy death hag in a gray Rodeo join you ? I even have a cattle guard on front, it's quite possible I could take out more than one at once !

[sablegsd]

Well said Mr. Gorey.
And bless all the members of Patriot Guard.

[RaRaRamona]

I totally hate Fred Phelps and everything he stands for, but the Marine's father sued Westboro church and lost. If you sue someone, you should know the that law is that you pay the defendant's court cost. The father's lawyer's had to have told him that before the lawsuit even got off the ground. A lot of law firm pick up the cost of the trial if they lose. It looks like his don't do that.

I understand that, but it will probably take several more lawsuits to shut them up. Someone had to try. So I support him.

[Linnie]

I have a much better idea. The Feds need some excuse to provoke a siege and then perhaps we'll be lucky and it will end like Waco. Even if there are children involved, their minds are all formed anyway. Sad if it comes to that pass, but I wouldn't weep for them. Nobody REALLY misses the Branch Davidians, do they?

On the other hand, why not keep the funerals low-key? No military, no flag, no taps. Maybe even no obituary (well, that would save some money, anyway.) No fuel for their fire--- they'll look rather stupid if they show up.

Perhaps some immediate families want to defy this distressing group, but don't the rest of the mourners deserve to say goodbye and share their grief without additional trauma and fear?

And why should numerous police have to be tied up monitoring an event that would otherwise only require a couple of officers to escort the procession for simple traffic purposes? And why should anyone else who volunteers to create a buffer zone be harassed and inconvenienced?

[imadeathhag]

May this crazy death hag in a gray Rodeo join you ? I even have a cattle guard on front, it's quite possible I could take out more than one at once !

I will volunteer to run over those fuckers. I'll use a bad case of PMS as my defense.

[KELT]

Talk about a fuc*ed up decision !
Completely ass backwards !

[silverwaif77]

I have a much better idea. The Feds need some excuse to provoke a siege and then perhaps we'll be lucky and it will end like Waco. Even if there are children involved, their minds are all formed anyway. Sad if it comes to that pass, but I wouldn't weep for them. Nobody REALLY misses the Branch Davidians, do they?

On the other hand, why not keep the funerals low-key? No military, no flag, no taps. Maybe even no obituary (well, that would save some money, anyway.) No fuel for their fire--- they'll look rather stupid if they show up.

Perhaps some immediate families want to defy this distressing group, but don't the rest of the mourners deserve to say goodbye and share their grief without additional trauma and fear?
And why should numerous police have to be tied up monitoring an event that would otherwise only require a couple of officers to escort the procession for simple traffic purposes? And why should anyone else who volunteers to create a buffer zone be harassed and inconvenienced?

Why should people who are grieving not have the military funeral for their loved one out of fear of these fucktards? Why shouldnt their be an obituary? We shouldnt have to alter our lives in any way because of crazy religious fundamentalists terrorizing people who have already suffered enough, unfortunately this is the reality many families face.
Police should be there if need be to prevent physical conflict it's part of their job. Volunteers often do jobs that arent pleasant, I would not have a problem volunteering for something like this. I LOVE to support causes I believe in, especially if I can help make peoples lives better, even for just a day.
The question you really need to ask is why would anyone ever protest a funeral with hate filled nasty propoganda signs?

[Town Without Pity]

I had to read that article a few times to believe what I was reading. Wrong in so many ways, everyone deserves to be buried in peace, especial someone from our Armed Forces and Vets. So wrong.

[Linnie]

Why should people who are grieving not have the military funeral for their loved one out of fear of these fucktards? Why shouldnt their be an obituary? We shouldnt have to alter our lives in any way because of crazy religious fundamentalists terrorizing people who have already suffered enough, unfortunately this is the reality many families face.
Police should be there if need be to prevent physical conflict it's part of their job. Volunteers often do jobs that arent pleasant, I would not have a problem volunteering for something like this. I LOVE to support causes I believe in, especially if I can help make peoples lives better, even for just a day.
The question you really need to ask is why would anyone ever protest a funeral with hate filled nasty propoganda signs?

You cannot get rid of them, or, apparently,even try to stop them without it costing the aggrieved victims. Better to fly under the radar, then, if that's what it takes. When my father and my brother died--- not in combat, but they both had been in the service--- they did have flags and a little military presence. We agreed, that did more for the military people present than for us, but at least those were the days before the Westboro pack was traveling the circuit.

If they HAD been around in those days, we WOULD have had the most private of funerals (which were already quiet because we never published the obituaries), as we-- my mother especially-- were not (and still are not) up to enduring needless abuse. I would argue that protecting the survivors takes precedence over anything done to honor the insensible dead.

[Gorey]

It's Gorey now, No, you cannot get rid of these asses. I'm sorry to say they're here to stay as is the Rights of our Constitution. But I will NOT change my life or my family's life for them. We have a long military history in my family. From the Union side of the civil war to Uncle Alvin killed on Iwo Jima, to my brother and three cousins in the Navy during the 70's to my second and third cousins overseas now. I will not let these people upset a Funeral even if I have to get Police, Patriot Guard, my VFD, or the older guys down at the Legion to protect and disperse these people. They must not be allowed to do what they do. It's morally wrong. They must not be much of a Christian Church or follow the Bible, or the Teachings of Jesus, if they are doing things like this. I think they all need to go back to Sunday School.

I'll get off my soap box now........
Mr. Gorey is furious about this, it looks like he was typing all night.

[Nvr_Sk_to_Tll]

I'm not a fan of any war, but I have a deep and abiding respect for anyone who serves their country, especially in a time of war. All veterans, whether they died in wartime or peacetime, deserve the full honors of a non-disrupted military funeral. They deserve the flag, taps, and any other trappings. No protestors, no rioting. It's the least that we can give them.

[STsFirstmate]

I have a much better idea. The Feds need some excuse to provoke a siege and then perhaps we'll be lucky and it will end like Waco. Even if there are children involved, their minds are all formed anyway. Sad if it comes to that pass, but I wouldn't weep for them. Nobody REALLY misses the Branch Davidians, do they?

On the other hand, why not keep the funerals low-key? No military, no flag, no taps. Maybe even no obituary (well, that would save some money, anyway.) No fuel for their fire--- they'll look rather stupid if they show up.

Perhaps some immediate families want to defy this distressing group, but don't the rest of the mourners deserve to say goodbye and share their grief without additional trauma and fear?

And why should numerous police have to be tied up monitoring an event that would otherwise only require a couple of officers to escort the procession for simple traffic purposes? And why should anyone else who volunteers to create a buffer zone be harassed and inconvenienced?

I can't speak for everywhere but here on Long Island there is a large public turn out at the graveside service and lining the route unless that family has made it clear they want it private.
Local police donate their offduty service time as funeral escorts in all the cases I know. The city does let them use their duty cars and bikes.
It is my opinion that you need to stand up to intolerance and hate whenever it raises it's ugly head.
Honoring our fallen is an important covenant in my mind between the dead, their families and their country and community. I would hate to see us back away from that out of fear or intimidation.
Symbols and ceremonies are important and ritual binds us. People like these idiots should just stiffen our spine and resolve.
Regards,
Mary

[STsFirstmate]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/OPINION/04/0...ex.html?hpt=T2
Here is an editorial elaborating on the story from another Gold Star Dad.
I did not realize that the Snyders had sued successfully and had won 11 million against Phelps reduced to 5 million and then overturn completely by this judge plus the expense ruling.
That pisses me off even more. This ruling would have broke this church just like a single lawsuit broke the Klan years ago.This is fodder for the Supreme Court and stick a fork in these guys once and for all.
Regards,
Mary

[Noreen]

Just read that Bill O'Reilly is going to pay the legal fee's. I am impressed. Never liked
Bill, but this was a good thing to do

Bhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/31/bill-oreilly-to-pay-court_n_520669.htmlill,

[HeyJude]

What we need is some sort of mobilization. When a military funeral is being planned, have a list of volunteers who are willing to hold a peaceful and reverent demonstration in the designated protest area. If necessary, have dozens of demonstrators get there several hours before the funeral, and provide a physical barrier between the hate mongers and the mourners, so that they cannot be seen or heard. I'd be willing to spend a few hours this way in service to my country.

How does one wake up day in and day out, with hate being your reason for existence? I think your soul must be destroyed to act like that.

[Miho]

Don't want to stand behind our troops? There is plenty of room in front of them you fuckers.

[Jazbabee]

Westminster, Md.....too close to my home, I remember when this happened.....bunch of douchebags !

[Jack-O-Lantern]

Don't want to stand behind our troops? There is plenty of room in front of them you fuckers.

Ha! Perfect!

[michihunt]

A travesty of justice. The terrorists win.

[imadeathhag]

It's Gorey now, No, you cannot get rid of these asses. I'm sorry to say they're here to stay as is the Rights of our Constitution. But I will NOT change my life or my family's life for them. We have a long military history in my family. From the Union side of the civil war to Uncle Alvin killed on Iwo Jima, to my brother and three cousins in the Navy during the 70's to my second and third cousins overseas now. I will not let these people upset a Funeral even if I have to get Police, Patriot Guard, my VFD, or the older guys down at the Legion to protect and disperse these people. They must not be allowed to do what they do. It's morally wrong. They must not be much of a Christian Church or follow the Bible, or the Teachings of Jesus, if they are doing things like this. I think they all need to go back to Sunday School.

I'll get off my soap box now........
Mr. Gorey is furious about this, it looks like he was typing all night.

I'm furious too. Here is a suggestion. When one of those low life fucks finally kicks the bucket, why don't we go to the funeral with picket signs and see how they like it? I know it sounds like stooping to their level, but it would be great to give them a taste of their own bitter poisonous medicine.

[Gorey]

What we need is some sort of mobilization. When a military funeral is being planned, have a list of volunteers who are willing to hold a peaceful and reverent demonstration in the designated protest area. If necessary, have dozens of demonstrators get there several hours before the funeral, and provide a physical barrier between the hate mongers and the mourners, so that they cannot be seen or heard. I'd be willing to spend a few hours this way in service to my country.

How does one wake up day in and day out, with hate being your reason for existence? I think your soul must be destroyed to act like that.

That's what the Patriot Guard does if invited by the Family of the soldier. They create a shoulder to shoulder line the entire route of the funeral if they have too, holding American Flags to bar the family from having to look at these protesters. The majority of them ride motorcycles and are Veterans themselves. They are a wonderful bunch of people.
Any body can join, my hubby belongs and he's not a veteran.

[racingfan]

How could someone be so cruel to do that at a funeral, where a group of family and friends are going through one of the worst times of their lives? I'm all for free speech, but there's also a thing called common courtesy and decency. Is that so much to ask in this world?

[steffie]

I live in a really small town and this doesn't happen here (yet). We still have the veterans come in and they will sometimes play the bagpipes ( i love that) and do the shooting and saluting.It makes me sick to think these assholes picket their funerals Kudos to O'Reilly for doing the right thing too.
I pray for all serving and want to thank them for my freedom and my countries freedom

[Forever-27]

Now I thought Bush and Congress passed some law that demonstrations werent allowed at military funerals. No matter if you do or dont agree with the wars we get into, to disrespect the ones who put their asses on the line, in the front lines of the fight risking their own heads being blown off in the name of the US is disgraceful. Bill O Riley and Sean Hannity I think have teamed to pay these legal costs until the judgement is head in appeal. I may be wrong but this is what i read somewhere.


I see these groups that protest at military funerals abusing the very rights that our war dead fought for in the previous wars.

Our justice system is sympathetic to democrats so this man was found to be responsible for the legal costs of thoes who in not so many actions, hocked a lugi at a kid who sacraficed his own life for the country he loved. Its just deplorable.

This is not what should be defined as Freedom of Speech !

[STsFirstmate]

Now I thought Bush and Congress passed some law that demonstrations werent allowed at military funerals. No matter if you do or dont agree with the wars we get into, to disrespect the ones who put their asses on the line, in the front lines of the fight risking their own heads being blown off in the name of the US is disgraceful. Bill O Riley and Sean Hannity I think have teamed to pay these legal costs until the judgement is head in appeal. I may be wrong but this is what i read somewhere.


I see these groups that protest at military funerals abusing the very rights that our war dead fought for in the previous wars.

Our justice system is sympathetic to democrats so this man was found to be responsible for the legal costs of thoes who in not so many actions, hocked a lugi at a kid who sacraficed his own life for the country he loved. Its just deplorable.

This is not what should be defined as Freedom of Speech !

The Federal Law was discounted as unconstitutional by the Bush attorney general and he lobbied to get it before the supreme court to get their ruling. Several states have proposed or passed legislation but they have been voided, I think by this ruling but there is now hope it can be appealed to the supreme court. Where are all those hotshot celebrity probono media whore lawyers now? They should be lining up to help with this issue.
Regards,
Mary

[Inked_Daddy]

Just read that Bill O'Reilly is going to pay the legal fee's. I am impressed. Never liked
Bill, but this was a good thing to do

Bhttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/03/31/bill-oreilly-to-pay-court_n_520669.htmlill,

I watched the O'Reilly Factor last night and Dennis Miller did confirm that Bill is paying all the fees.

[JefeStone]

I look at it this way. If George Tillers family sued Bill O'Reily for calling him "Tiller the Baby Killer" over and over again untill some right wing fanatic finally shot him in the head in church, and lost, they should have to pay his legal cost, I'm sure O'Reily would agree. It's funny how Hannity and O'Reily are keepers of free speech unless it's something they don't agree with. They Defend all the hate signs at tea party's. Men taking assault rifles to Obama's speeches. They are treasonous hypocrites.

I don't want to hear about the court favoring the democrats either. The courts made President Bush president, they just gave a blank check to the GOP from special interest by allowing no limits on how much corporations can donate to campaigns. Even foriegn company's can donate now.

Fred Phelps is ass, his message is one of hate. One of division. But to have feeedom of speech sometimes you have to hear stuff you don't like.

[78 Cobra II Fan]

These assholes came here to east Tennessee to protest a funeral in my home town of Cleveland the only problem they had to land at the Chattanooga aport about 30 miles away no cab would give them a ride . They missed the whole thing assholes.

[Inked_Daddy]

I look at it this way. If George Tillers family sued Bill O'Reily for calling him "Tiller the Baby Killer" over and over again untill some right wing fanatic finally shot him in the head in church, and lost, they should have to pay his legal cost, I'm sure O'Reily would agree. It's funny how Hannity and O'Reily are keepers of free speech unless it's something they don't agree with. They Defend all the hate signs at tea party's. Men taking assault rifles to Obama's speeches. They are treasonous hypocrites.

I don't want to hear about the court favoring the democrats either. The courts made President Bush president, they just gave a blank check to the GOP from special interest by allowing no limits on how much corporations can donate to campaigns. Even foriegn company's can donate now.

Fred Phelps is ass, his message is one of hate. One of division. But to have feeedom of speech sometimes you have to hear stuff you don't like.

I can't stand Hannity... he is another one that is pretty toxic. Not a good spokesman for conservatives.

As far as O'rielly goes I watch him 2-3 nights a week and I have never, ever heard him defend hate speech. He can be a blowhard at times but I think he is the most rational of the traditionalists. Most people that condemn him have not watched his show that much.

[STsFirstmate]

I can't stand Hannity... he is another one that is pretty toxic. Not a good spokesman for conservatives.

As far as O'rielly goes I watch him 2-3 nights a week and I have never, ever heard him defend hate speech. He can be a blowhard at times but I think he is the most rational of the traditionalists. Most people that condemn him have not watched his show that much.

Off topic Inked but how do you feel about what has happened to David Frum. I felt he was one of the few solid intellectuals in the William F Buckley mold. I disagreed with him a lot but I found his arguments had heft, reason and intellectual merit.
I think he got a raw deal and I think that it is one more push of intellectual conservatism to the extreme right.
Again off topic but I am curious about how people who consider themselves conservative felt about it.
I agree Hannity is just another pour gasoline on it and wrap yourself in the flag know nothing from my perspective.
Regards,
Mary

[Inked_Daddy]

Off topic Inked but how do you feel about what has happened to David Frum. I felt he was one of the few solid intellectuals in the William F Buckley mold. I disagreed with him a lot but I found his arguments had heft, reason and intellectual merit.
I think he got a raw deal and I think that it is one more push of intellectual conservatism to the extreme right.
Again off topic but I am curious about how people who consider themselves conservative felt about it.
I agree Hannity is just another pour gasoline on it and wrap yourself in the flag know nothing from my perspective.
Regards,
Mary

It sounds like the shitcanned him for not towing the GOP company line. The GOP is in trouble... I do think they are losing a lot of young intellectuals. Frum is correct - Repubs in March failed miserably. Why it is so hard to flex I do not know - I guess it is a pride thing. One of the big reasons I believe the GOP has failed and that I left the party is that they have failed to negotiate. The unflinching hard right is running off a lot of people.

[imadeathhag]

These assholes came here to east Tennessee to protest a funeral in my home town of Cleveland the only problem they had to land at the Chattanooga aport about 30 miles away no cab would give them a ride . They missed the whole thing assholes.

hahaha! Go east Tennessee!