Health Insurance and National Health Care

[SomeChick]

***sigh***

There is this aspect too. There will be fines if you don't buy it, except in cases of hardship, if I have it right.

Oh, and BUY IT really stands out here.

While all this shit was going on in this thread I forgot to put this in...
I (and others) would like to be able to purchase some more AFFORDABLE health insurance than what seems to be available right now.

Not handouts from the Govt. PURCHASE IT.

Anyway, above all else, it's law as of now, and a campaign promise was taken care of in the process.

I do not have health insurance now because I can't afford it.
It appears that with the new plan, in four years I will be required to buy health insurance that I can't afford.
I am screwed.

^^^ This stuff is what worries me about how this will play out for the working poor and just average people trying to afford health insurance at the current rates. I feel like they're gonna get fucked over big time. Or single people who just lose their jobs in general but don't qualify for assistance/unemployment and can't afford to keep their prior coverage using COBRA.

I feel like people want to be insured, they should be insured, the plan could help, but people shouldn't be threatened with fines if they can't afford it. Fines will solve nothing and will create more problems. There are so many comparisons I could make to say why I think that, that I won't even bother.

Insurance for all is good. Getting fucked because you can't afford something you need like this is just well, fucked.

[endsleigh03]

^^^ This stuff is what worries me about how this will play out for the working poor and just average people trying to afford health insurance at the current rates. I feel like they're gonna get fucked over big time. Or single people who just lose their jobs in general but don't qualify for assistance/unemployment and can't afford to keep their prior coverage using COBRA.

I feel like people want to be insured, they should be insured, the plan could help, but people shouldn't be threatened with fines if they can't afford it. Fines will solve nothing and will create more problems. There are so many comparisons I could make to say why I think that, that I won't even bother.

Insurance for all is good. Getting fucked because you can't afford something you need like this is just well, fucked.

Agreed.
Not sure how this can be done. Throw you in jail if you accumulate too many years of fines?
Def take tax return money away, I'd bet. If the fines cost less than purchasing the insurance per year, people may go that route. There is that hardship clause but who knows who qualifies.

Are there enough doctors to deal with the (possible) onslaught of millions becoming insured who aren't right now? Just a weird thought. I had this flash of baby turtles running by the thousands to the water, LoL.
More coffee is needed.

[Hag1]

Obama's public option was an excellent plan, because I feel it would create competition with the private carriers who are now making gazillions in profits. But--that was taken out, because it would create too much competition for the private carriers! wtf? I am one of those people who will fall through the cracks, again. Because I am not "poor", and I do work, every damn day. but get real, middle class people cannot afford private insurance, nor pay for health care. I had high hopes for this in the beginning. I should have known----

[cachluv]

Folks, please read the bill. Being worried is always a good thing where the government is concerned but this doom-and-gloom and convincing oneself that we are all fucked is pretty much for naught.

[Hag1]

Folks, please read the bill. Being worried is always a good thing where the government is concerned but this doom-and-gloom and convincing oneself that we are all fucked is pretty much for naught.

I read it, but you are right. I was thinking of myself. There are many other good points in the bill that will benefit many people.

[cachluv]

I'm just sayin'....if you have read it and still feel doomed, God Bless We are not SUPPOSED to all think the same way.

I'm still in the process of making my way through it. I don't feel fucked yet. Lots of changes coming. I've been unemployed and uninsured many times in my life. I fail to believe that if it happens again and I can't afford insurance that I'll still have to pay for it or be penalized--that's not at all how I perceived this bill. This is exactly one of the things this bill is being designed to eliminate: people just being ass-out like that.

[cachluv]

And I still submit to the old school of thought that this is the United States of America and NOTHING can bring us down. Foreign nor domestic.

[duster]

Folks, please read the bill. Being worried is always a good thing where the government is concerned but this doom-and-gloom and convincing oneself that we are all fucked is pretty much for naught.

The best advice yet...

[Paulination]

Obama's public option was an excellent plan, because I feel it would create competition with the private carriers who are now making gazillions in profits.

I understand why you feel this way and on the surface it sounds good, but it is an unsustainable healthcare model and here is why:

First, the private insurance companies make a realized profit on average of 6-7%, pretty modest for a private company. What most don't realize is that the insurance companies are required by law to put 30% of premiums paid into a reserve fund. The reserve fund is required in case there is an inordinate amount of claims or an unforseen event (massive earthquake or something) the insurance company will be able to pay all of the claims.

The federal government will not require the same of itself since it has no problem with defecit spending or printing money. Just that fact alone means they could charge 30% less than the insurance company.

By doing this, all of the healthy people who don't care about which provider they see because they don't typically utillize services anyway will flock towards the public option. The private companies will become insolvent and disapear leaving only the public option. Ofcourse taxation will swell down into the mid to lower middle class and that coupled with inflation from all of the printing of money and devalueing of the dollar will stagnate the enconomy for a generation.

I don't want to fear monger but if you look at the scenario I have described and take all of the politics and emotions out of it, it is the most likely outcome mathmatically.

[STsFirstmate]

I understand why you feel this way and on the surface it sounds good, but it is an unsustainable healthcare model and here is why:

First, the private insurance companies make a realized profit on average of 6-7%, pretty modest for a private company. What most don't realize is that the insurance companies are required by law to put 30% of premiums paid into a reserve fund. The reserve fund is required in case there is an inordinate amount of claims or an unforseen event (massive earthquake or something) the insurance company will be able to pay all of the claims.

The federal government will not require the same of itself since it has no problem with defecit spending or printing money. Just that fact alone means they could charge 30% less than the insurance company.

By doing this, all of the healthy people who don't care about which provider they see because they don't typically utillize services anyway will flock towards the public option. The private companies will become insolvent and disapear leaving only the public option. Ofcourse taxation will swell down into the mid to lower middle class and that coupled with inflation from all of the printing of money and devalueing of the dollar will stagnate the enconomy for a generation.

I don't want to fear monger but if you look at the scenario I have described and take all of the politics and emotions out of it, it is the most likely outcome mathmatically.

While your point is taken and accepted on profit margins and reserve funds ( a basic principle of how insurance works) the root cause goes deeper an further back.
During the Clinton administration the door was open for insurance companies and banks to sell additional financial services and products such as securities etc. That opened the door on what had always been a very conservative cost conscious industry take much riskier positions an reap much higher financial gains.
The overhead in compensation for senior execs top sales people and CEOs shot through the roof, as in many other businesses.
Compensation is way out of whack in several industries and insurance in general is one of them. I would have more sympathy for them if they did a better job containing their own costs.
The world won't end if every file clerk isn't an MBA and the CEO isn't paid like a Rock Star.
Every major company I visit is suffering from the same malady, over compensation with no regard for results. They cry to me they will lose talent and I tell them show me the talent they losing? Hire competent appropriately experienced and educated replacements and pay them a fair competitive wage. The rest of the expenses will level like a water table when that happens.
Just my opinion and part of the advice I give companies every day and they really don't want to accept it.
Regards,
Mary

[Hag1]

While your point is taken and accepted on profit margins and reserve funds ( a basic principle of how insurance works) the root cause goes deeper an further back.
During the Clinton administration the door was open for insurance companies and banks to sell additional financial services and products such as securities etc. That opened the door on what had always been a very conservative cost conscious industry take much riskier positions an reap much higher financial gains.
The overhead in compensation for senior execs top sales people and CEOs shot through the roof, as in many other businesses.
Compensation is way out of whack in several industries and insurance in general is one of them. I would have more sympathy for them if they did a better job containing their own costs.
The world won't end if every file clerk isn't an MBA and the CEO isn't paid like a Rock Star.
Every major company I visit is suffering from the same malady, over compensation with no regard for results. They cry to me they will lose talent and I tell them show me the talent they losing? Hire competent appropriately experienced and educated replacements and pay them a fair competitive wage. The rest of the expenses will level like a water table when that happens.
Just my opinion and part of the advice I give companies every day and they really don't want to accept it.
Regards,
Mary

Amen to that.

With regard to compensation----my granddaughter had to see a pediatric urologist, the charge was $750 for an office call, he spent a total of seven minutes with her. My friend's bill for radiation for one month was $33,000. (12 treatments @ 10 min each) I know of two doctors who make well over a million a year. The average pay for a physician in France is $55,000; but they get free education and do not have to pay exoribitant malpractice premiums (insurance again). I have two friends who are nurses who make in excess of $80,000, with a two-year degree. I am happy for them! But--there are many facets of our problems. And---my mother just spent a couple of days in the hospital for observation. The room was similar to a luxury suite in a good hotel. Cherry furniture and crown molding, flat screen, computer access w/internet, and room service! Medicare paid for that.

[SomeChick]

Agreed.
Not sure how this can be done. Throw you in jail if you accumulate too many years of fines?
Def take tax return money away, I'd bet. If the fines cost less than purchasing the insurance per year, people may go that route. There is that hardship clause but who knows who qualifies.

Are there enough doctors to deal with the (possible) onslaught of millions becoming insured who aren't right now? Just a weird thought. I had this flash of baby turtles running by the thousands to the water, LoL.
More coffee is needed.

LOL

That is something to think about though.

[Hag1]

It just occurred to me that if i get put in jail, then i would have free health care.--

[cindyt]

What is this talk about handouts upthread? I pay upwards to $100 per month for Medicare and a bit less than $60 for Plan D prescriptions. That doesn't sound like a handout to me. It's all I can do to pay both and everything else I owe. I will probably get fucked. I don't understand how they can call it free when it ain't gonna be. As Deb said, the poor are not going to be able to pay. They can barely feed their families or theirself, so how in the fuck are they going to buy a free health insurance plan? Pay fees when they can't buy? HA! I guess the jails will be padded with the poor souls. JHC.

[Paulination]

What is this talk about handouts upthread? I pay upwards to $100 per month for Medicare and a bit less than $60 for Plan D prescriptions. That doesn't sound like a handout to me.

It's not a handout. You paid for this benefit at some point through your employment and you are still paying something for it now with monthly expense.

There has got to be an equitable way to handle the insurance reform. Creating a scenario that is doomed for failure as we have now or even worse, if the government takes over will only cost us more in terms of money and lives in the long run.

I don't pretend to have the answer but I do know what the answer isn't. We as American citizens have the responsibility to recognize what is inherently bad for our nation and all of its' citizens and then do something about it. When this legislature is in full effect Obama will be long gone (term limit) and there will be no one left to hold accountable, not that it will matter at that point.

[SomeChick]

It's not a handout. You paid for this benefit at some point through your employment and you are still paying something for it now with monthly expense.

There has got to be an equitable way to handle the insurance reform. Creating a scenario that is doomed for failure as we have now or even worse, if the government takes over will only cost us more in terms of money and lives in the long run.

I don't pretend to have the answer but I do know what the answer isn't. We as American citizens have the responsibility to recognize what is inherently bad for our nation and all of its' citizens and then do something about it. When this legislature is in full effect Obama will be long gone (term limit) and there will be no one left to hold accountable, not that it will matter at that point.

I think if there were a vote on this (hypothetically by the general population), the turnout would've surpassed that of the heated Presidential election!

[Jack-O-Lantern]

What is this talk about handouts upthread? I pay upwards to $100 per month for Medicare and a bit less than $60 for Plan D prescriptions. That doesn't sound like a handout to me. It's all I can do to pay both and everything else I owe. I will probably get fucked. I don't understand how they can call it free when it ain't gonna be. As Deb said, the poor are not going to be able to pay. They can barely feed their families or theirself, so how in the fuck are they going to buy a free health insurance plan? Pay fees when they can't buy? HA! I guess the jails will be padded with the poor souls. JHC.

It's my understanding that there will be government subsidies to those who can't afford it Cindy. I read somewhere that subsidies will be available to those who make less than $88K (I may be wrong about that figure but I believe that's it), so the assistance won't be limited to the extreme poverty-stricken--as most subsidies and assistance are now--but to the middle class who can't afford to pay insanely expensive premiums also.

eta: Attaching an article from the CSM about the subsidies, looks like $44K for individuals and up to $88K for families. That's pretty inclusive given what we've got happening now, with so many falling through the cracks.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politic...ized-insurance

[cindyt]

It's my understanding that there will be government subsidies to those who can't afford it Cindy. I read somewhere that subsidies will be available to those who make less than $88K (I may be wrong about that figure but I believe that's it), so the assistance won't be limited to the extreme poverty-stricken--as most subsidies and assistance are now--but to the middle class who can't afford to pay insanely expensive premiums also.

But I'm married. So I don't qualify for anything like that, I don't think. I know I'm not qualified to have my Medicare fee waived, anyway.

OMG. I just remembered. Hubs had to take a pay cut two years ago and that's one reason we've been having it hard. But he came home yesterday and told me his company was going to not only reinstate his full pay but give him a $2 per hour raise. Big bucks, baby. Wowzer! Can you say new car? Plus, I won't have to worry about paying for free health insurance. I'll pay it and he'll fork over the dough.

[Jack-O-Lantern]

But I'm married. So I don't qualify for anything like that, I don't think. I know I'm not qualified to have my Medicare fee waived, anyway.

Marriage, I believe, would actually qualify your family for more of a subsidy Cindy, not less. But as Medicare recipients, this bill really isn't about us. It's about those who have NO coverage now...and let's face it, for what we receive Medicare is an absolutely great deal. I know it's hard to make those monthly premiums, but $160 per month is nothing compared to a several-day hospital stay which can cost half the price of a home for the uninsured.

[Demgirl]

Here's a link to a calculator that will help you determine your subsidy eligibility. Hope it helps.

http://healthreform.kff.org/SubsidyCalculator.aspx

You're eligible for a subsidy whether single or married. You'll be eligible for a subsidy if your income is under 400% of the Federal Poverty Level.

[Inked_Daddy]

I am going to start taking a lot of vitamins.

[ichabodius]

I am going to start taking a lot of vitamins.

Denmark has banned vitamin enriched foods.
Its a shame that the western world needs to take supplements to ensure that we consume all FDA approved amounts of certain minerals and such. Oh wait.
Recent studies have shown that artificial vitamin supplements to food supply ( mostly bread, tv dinners, and vitamin supplements) have detrimental effects upon human physiology.

[Paulination]

This is such a major impairment to business and will be costly and time consumptive. It is things just like this that had me worrying about the government getting involved in the first place. The government had everyone focussing on healthcare while they slip this gem in the back door.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/05/05/smal...n_bin&hpt=Sbin

[cindyt]

Denmark has banned vitamin enriched foods.
Its a shame that the western world needs to take supplements to ensure that we consume all FDA approved amounts of certain minerals and such. Oh wait.
Recent studies have shown that artificial vitamin supplements to food supply ( mostly bread, tv dinners, and vitamin supplements) have detrimental effects upon human physiology.

I had never heard this, but it made me think of the doctor who once pointed out to me that if you really need vitamins the OTCs would not help you. I know someone who used to just eat C and it finally caused a skin problem, and I once started taking Iron and it made me sick. Every once in a while I need a potassium, which I get at my doctor's office, otherwise I don't take vitamins or supplements.

[Heavenly Tiger]

It just occurred to me that if i get put in jail, then i would have free health care.--

Ain't that the truth. On of my early ex boyfriends got 1 yr on a pot rap. While he was in there he had dental care and his inflamed appendix removed. I have insurance but only covers hospitals admissions and nothing else. If I get sick I am thinking I might find some way to get put in jail in too.

[Paulination]

Well here is some irony for you. As part of the concessions Greece must make to recieve their bailout, they must privatize at least some of their health care system.

I don't think you will hear Obama address that.

[Bidmor]

This is a perfect example of the difference between the Democratic Party hierarchy and and the actual Republican Party hierarchy (which is none), and helps perpetuate the illusion of a true "two party system" as it exists today.

Barbara Bush (W.'s daughter) and national healthcare:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_pl2570

[Paulination]

I'm pretty sure she doesn't consider herself a republican. I think I read a quote where she calls herself an independent which in her case is code word for "I'm now a democrat but I don't want to piss off daddy".

[Jack-O-Lantern]

I am going to start taking a lot of vitamins.

I take vitamins and they help me immensely...Vitamin D especially (mood elevator) and chondroitin (for joint pain and lubrication). Also C (keeps me from getting colds) and of course a multi.
Two sides to every story, but they work for me and that's a fact.

[SheBoss]

I truly believe that all people whether dem or rep have their own views on the healthcare system. Some follow their party lines and some don't. Most of the people I talk to don't have a problem with it "if" (insert complaint of your choice). And that's the way I think as well.

I also enjoyed reading the side article about the 11 richest dogs!

[majcm]

I am so scared as I write this. Husband is out, won't come home right now. I think this is the closest we have come to separation-divorce. I am on his health insurance. I work part time, bring home about $800.00 a month. I could maybe add some hours and come to about $950.00 a month. Can anyone tell me how much they pay for single person health insurance a month? Basic plan, annual women's checkups, prescriptions, maybe a counselor (I can see needing this if he leaves). I don't think he would leave me with NO insurance for a few months, but eventually he would take me off his. I am 48, overweight, on b/p medicine. Thanks for any help.

[SheBoss]

I am so scared as I write this. Husband is out, won't come home right now. I think this is the closest we have come to separation-divorce. I am on his health insurance. I work part time, bring home about $800.00 a month. I could maybe add some hours and come to about $950.00 a month. Can anyone tell me how much they pay for single person health insurance a month? Basic plan, annual women's checkups, prescriptions, maybe a counselor (I can see needing this if he leaves). I don't think he would leave me with NO insurance for a few months, but eventually he would take me off his. I am 48, overweight, on b/p medicine. Thanks for any help.

I'm sorry to say this, maj, but my non-company-paying friends pay about $400 - $450 a month. I have no idea if this varies state to state or if you can get cheaper. The ones I'm thinking of specifically have Blue Cross/Blue Shield.

[Paulination]

Majcm,

I am an insurance broker in CA. The rules differ from state to state so take what I am telling you with a grain of salt and maybe use it to help inquire from someone locally.

First, you should talk with your husband and make some deal with him that in the event you stay seperated, you'll pay for your portion of the insurance. There is no reason he shouldn't accept that and will seem like a vindictive asshole if you go to divorce and that fact comes out. This still could be expensive so if you need to go the individual route, be aware of:

Individual policies are underwriten and are NOT guarenteed issue as the plan your husband has through work.
I won't ask how overweight you are but know that the insurance company will ask for that information and if you're not truthful, it could come back to bite you if there is a claim (2 year statute of limitations).
The BP medicine could be a problem as well.
If you do get divorce, you should be elligible to stay on his health plan through COBRA with the insurance company billng you directly. You could ask the judge to have your husband pay for it but that will depend on the circumstances behind the break up.

In CA there are a ton of different policies so I assume there is where you are as well.
Range $250 - $600.

Sorry you are dealing with this. Ask me anything you need to and I'll try to help.

[SheBoss]

But COBRA is only a temporary fix, right Paul? Or is there some permanent COBRA I'm not aware of for present employees, but the spouse leaves/changes?

[Paulination]

[quote=SheBoss;1056855]But COBRA is only a temporary fix, right Paul? /quote]

In the state of CA, once you have exhausted your COBRA benefits, you can either apply for a "guarenteed issue" conversion policy through the current carrier, or apply for an individual policy through a different carrier and if denied, elect to take a HIPPA policy through the denying carrier which also is guarenteed issue.

The important thing ist that you move from one policy to the other with no more than 60 days of lapsing coverage.

[SheBoss]

You learn something new every day! Thanks for the info!

[Paulination]

"But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy." Nancy Pelosi regarding Obamacare.

I was listening to a talk show this morning and they brought this quote up and I couldn't believe the speaker of the house would actually say something so stupid. I decided to research it instead of just "drinking the koolaid" and sure enough, it was on her own website.

Passing a bill to find out what is in it is the most fundamentally assinine approach to legislation I have ever heard of.

[radiojane]

Passing a bill to find out what is in it is the most fundamentally assinine approach to legislation I have ever heard of.

Agreed.


What's terrifying is you know there's a good chance of many many people taking that approach.



Reading this thread is making me nauseaus. I've never been so grateful to be living in a country where I have basic health coverage provided. I know there is no way I could budget for health insurance at the prices you're discussing, but you'd pretty much have to.

[Pat Bateman]

Agreed.


What's terrifying is you know there's a good chance of many many people taking that approach.



Reading this thread is making me nauseaus. I've never been so grateful to be living in a country where I have basic health coverage provided. I know there is no way I could budget for health insurance at the prices you're discussing, but you'd pretty much have to.

Word. We love to knock our health system too but it is a relief to know we don't have to put our hand in our pocket each and every time we get sick.

[SheBoss]

Passing a bill to find out what is in it is the most fundamentally assinine approach to legislation I have ever heard of.

***applause*** But then I normally do to your posts!

[Karma]

Passing a bill to find out what is in it is the most fundamentally assinine approach to legislation I have ever heard of.

Scary isn't it?

[CelebritySkin]

Have you ever wondered why the USA does not invite countries like Sweden, Finland, Norway, France and Germany to the Usa for a meeting on how their healthcare system seems to work. I lived in Germany and they are light years ahead of America in HC. And don't tell me about death panels and waiting time for care. I choose my own doctor and not from some list. Oh there is a list it's called the Yellow pages. Healthcare is viewed as a cost of business in most civilized countries. It is not run by the government and all must be covered. That means the cost of business is the same to all. It is not for profit and that includes R and D. The cost for healthcare in Germany is 50 percent less than in the Usa. Most of the doctors are trained in the Usa, England and Germany and I received my medication from American companies.

[Paulination]

I understand why you feel this way and on the surface it sounds good, but it is an unsustainable healthcare model and here is why:

First, the private insurance companies make a realized profit on average of 6-7%, pretty modest for a private company. What most don't realize is that the insurance companies are required by law to put 30% of premiums paid into a reserve fund. The reserve fund is required in case there is an inordinate amount of claims or an unforseen event (massive earthquake or something) the insurance company will be able to pay all of the claims.

The federal government will not require the same of itself since it has no problem with defecit spending or printing money. Just that fact alone means they could charge 30% less than the insurance company.

By doing this, all of the healthy people who don't care about which provider they see because they don't typically utillize services anyway will flock towards the public option. The private companies will become insolvent and disapear leaving only the public option. Ofcourse taxation will swell down into the mid to lower middle class and that coupled with inflation from all of the printing of money and devalueing of the dollar will stagnate the enconomy for a generation.

I don't want to fear monger but if you look at the scenario I have described and take all of the politics and emotions out of it, it is the most likely outcome mathmatically.

This is what I was referring to without re-writing it. If you need more elaboration I will be happy to provide it.

[2Dogs]

Comprehensive List Of Tax Hikes in Obamacare:

http://www.atr.org/comprehensive-lis...#ixzz1B4Mjlppi

[orionova]

I for one would be happy to pay a bit more in taxes if it meant that everyone got the medical care they need.

[Paulination]

I for one would be happy to pay a bit more in taxes if it meant that everyone got the medical care they need.

A nice thought but nothing more than a pipe dream. The economics just doesn't bare this out.

[2Dogs]

Someone recently told me I might be able to claim some of my insurance on my taxes. It may be rumor, or a tall tale, but I'm definitely going to check on it. (Yes, I am clueless about most things tax related, but I can disguise a bulging tummy, plan a boutique layout or squeeze the most from a budget like nobodies business.) We all have our strong suits...

Iâ??m not a tax accountant, but I believe you can claim your health insurance premiums *IF* your out of pocket health care expenses (which includes premiums and medical bills not paid by insurance) exceed 7.5% of your gross income. I think there are some other complicating factors, such as if your premiums are paid through your employer, pre-tax.

[Paulination]

I just received this e-mail from a concerned client:

Hi Paul,
Attached is an article I spotted in the NFIB magazine regarding changes to the HSA plan.
What is your opinion of the impact?
Thanks, John

John is one of my larger clients (a company of 40 employees) and has an insurance plan with a Health Savings Account (HSA).

For those who don't know, an HSA plan is a high deductible health plan with no benefit other than preventative until the deductible is met. The member is responsible for 100% of their medical care before the deductible (approx. $3000 depending on the plan). This accounts for 90% of the health care claims in this country. People with these plans represent the most cost consciencious people in our healthcare system.
As a benefit, they enjoy lower premiums and a tax incentive. The incentive comes from their abillity to deduct any contributions they put into their HSA account. The account is traditionally looked at by the IRS the same way as any other qualified plan. Not anymore under Obamacare.

If someone withdraws funds from their HSA for reasons other than healcare expenses, they are taxed an additional 20% instead of the historical 10%. Also, over the counter drugs are no longer qualified expenses.

Instead of rewarding the most cost effective people in the system, we are penalizing them. Obama says this will raise 6.8 Billion. Of course to raise 6.8 billion on this concept you need for a vast amount of people to fail (withdrawing funds due to hardship).

Banking on individual hardships to fund Obamacare. Nice.

[endsleigh03]

Of note in this article is where the judge is talking about those who DO NOT buy or have health insurance.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/02..._lnk2%7C202956




In her 64-page ruling, Kessler wrote: "Both the decision to purchase health insurance and its flip side -- the decision not to purchase health insurance -- therefore relate to the consumption of a commodity: a health insurance policy ... Because of the cost-shifting effect, the individual decision to forgo health insurance, when considered in the aggregate, leads to substantially higher insurance premiums for those other individuals who do obtain coverage."

Kessler then wrote: "To put it less analytically, and less charitably, those who choose -- and Plaintiffs have made such a deliberate choice -- not to purchase health insurance will benefit greatly when they become ill, as they surely will, from the free health care which must be provided by emergency rooms and hospitals to the sick and dying who show up on their doorstep. In short, those who choose not to purchase health insurance will ultimately get a 'free ride' on the backs of those Americans who have made responsible choices to provide for the illness we all must face at some point in our lives."

[Paulination]

Of note in this article is where the judge is talking about those who DO NOT buy or have health insurance.

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2011/02..._lnk2%7C202956


Kessler then wrote: "To put it less analytically, and less charitably, those who choose -- and Plaintiffs have made such a deliberate choice -- not to purchase health insurance will benefit greatly when they become ill, as they surely will, from the free health care which must be provided by emergency rooms and hospitals to the sick and dying who show up on their doorstep. In short, those who choose not to purchase health insurance will ultimately get a 'free ride' on the backs of those Americans who have made responsible choices to provide for the illness we all must face at some point in our lives."

I find the mandate intriguing and much to the surprise of most here, I could support it for the reasons the judge outlines. The problem is that the penalty for not having the insurance is too low.

If everyone bought insurance like they would in Obama's utopia then guarenteed issue insurance for everyone would work because there would be enough premium dollars to offset claims. The reality is though, the people who now choose not to have coverage will simply pay the penalty and remain uncovered. This will continue the problem the judge outlined and will actually make it worse because those who elect not to have it will still be allowed to get a plan without penalty should they become sick.

The insurance company would then have to pay claims on a sick person they have not had the benefit of collecting healthy premium for. The insurance companies would fail and the government takes over.

It would be like you paying a penalty of $100 a year so you don't have to pay the $1200 for car insurance. Then you get into a car accident and have the ability to buy the coverage after the fact and get your car fixed. Once the car is fixed, you could cancel the policy and the cycle begins again.

The insurance company collects $200 or $300 hundred dollars but has to pay $2000 or more for the accident. It is the same principle.

This is the elephant in the corner when it comes to Obamacare and no one (politicians) want to address it.