Health Insurance and National Health Care

[Jrwzeigle]

I am so tired hearing about this health care bill, the positives, the negatives, the hidden agendas, who it will help, who it will screw, etc., that I have honestly turned off the switch in my head when I hear anything about it. I know that is sad, but I have done it.

IMO, I think this bill is like trying to put a bandaid on a crack in the Hoover Dam.

Every politican wants to fix something, and they want a quick fix, but the Dems and the Republicans refuse to work together. You cannot call this bill working together.
I guess I feel that both parties should work together to fix a massive problem that affects their country. We have been being screwed for years - I guess our asses are finally getting too sore for us to take too much more of it, and no amount of lube is gonna ease the pain....

[duster]

Duster I have done as much research on it as I have had time to.
It is summarized pretty well on the White House website. The navigator on the left takes you to sectional summaries. Of course you can find 50 different spins on each one of these on other websites.
I the biggest features that will positively impact the majority of Americans is the large pool of insurance options that will likely provide preventative medicine coverage for men and women of low income like mammograms, postrate exams etc. This is one of the larger gaps that negatively impacts longevity for low income people. It also pushes back on the "cheaper to chop" insurance standards for low income Americans that make it cheaper for an insurance company to remove a diabetics foot rather than counsel and provide preventive care they just can't get now including compression stockings etc.
The fact that you can't be denied for preexisting conditions under the new bill. I know a pediatrician who is pressured constantly to not document diagnosis for asthma with kids but instead call it allergies because it is less punitive as a preexisting condition if the parents change jobs and there fore insurance carriers.
The way I see it , it is a good thing whose time has come. I have to have my car insured in this state and many others and I can be fined for not doing so. I don't see this as much different and I think it will have a positive impact on the long term health of people thus reducing catastrophic health costs a bit over time.
I don't mind paying for help for others who really need it.I make good money and even my co-pays are paid for with my insurance. I don't mind paying a little more for my premiums to help others if I know fraud is being monitored and the rapacious insurance companies are being brought back to reality a bit.
They is a difference between over regulation and no regulation and they both lead to abuses. Like everything the correct path is prudent controls and oversight and healthy, competitive market for consumers.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/proposal
Just my opinion.
Regards,
Mary

Thanks for that Mary - that's a helpful, practical start.

I was referring to the Republican congressmen and senators who have taken millions in payouts from the Health Insurance industry. Read it here. You want to cut through the rhetoric? Follow the money.

http://blog.sunlightfoundation.com/2...campaign-cash/


I haven't seen democrats shouting nigger, fag and baby killer. I haven't seen democrats burning effigy's of the president or spitting on members of congress. To win elections you need the independent voter. Crazed finger pointing and name calling by republican elected officials and GPAC funded fake grassroots groups like the tea partiers arent going to get those votes. To get those votes you need ideas, not scare tactics

Jeezus Jef...The Sunlight Foundation?!? We need to do better than that, in terms of "independant" analysis.

Some of the sources I've seen you provide here are little more than glorified blogs.

Just because a website reflects my personal point of view doesn't make it credible journalism.

There's so many half truths floating around out there. I'm going to sit back and wait a bit before commenting.

In my opinion, that's what everyone should b doing now...This is a time for some deep breaths.

[SomeChick]

Other members have a right to believe sources they trust or enjoy. So there's no reason to badger anyone else about their sources not being personal favorites. Please keep that in mind. Thanks.

[JefeStone]

Here is where they get their numbers

http://clerk.house.gov/public_disc/index.html

I posted the previous link because it had all info one page.

[mel306]

Wow indeed....as a civil conversation about universal healthcare degenerates into name-calling and bitterness. Sad.

You are right it does and I have been reading so much hatred the past few days posted by people I thought I knew, that I am disgusted.

You had asked early how this is going to work. We do not know. The media is reporting bits and pieces and people are throwing out stats that are so incorrect I am beyond scared for them because they destroying friendships over this.

I work in the insurance industry. I do not sell health but I can so we get briefings on all this and some of my groups have read the actual bill, and they understand what is really being written. And trust me, no one in the general public really knows, understands or is willing to find out what is really happening.

This scares me more than the bill itself.

I want to make one point that people don't understand and really explains a lot. We are not ranked very high in the world for our health care and there are two main reasons for this that no one gets.

1. We report the truth about every procedure we do here. Other countries do not always and this effects the standing.

2. They fact that we have so many top doctors here and we take in immigrants effects that number greatly. We help the sick from around the world in many areas, transplantation being a big one, and it brings down our number.

We may not be number one, but we deserve to be a lot higher than we show now.

[SomeChick]

I do not sell health but I can so we get briefings on all this and some of my groups have read the actual bill, and they understand what is really being written. And trust me, no one in the general public really knows, understands or is willing to find out what is really happening.

Not true. My husband read it. He thinks that's fun. Crazy!...but I love him.

[mel306]

Not true. My husband read it. He thinks that's fun. Crazy!...but I love him.

Good for him. More people should.

I am just saying most of the people who I know personally who are arguing their asses off have not read even a page.

They are also throwing out numbers and they are both saying different numbers for the same things, but swearing they are right. Guess what, one of you is wrong, maybe both! lol

[Nicki]

We've already been taking it up the ass for years. Maybe with the new health care bill we'll be able to buy pharmaceutical grade lube.

Good one!

[okidoll]

I think if we had a flat tax these sort of ideas of nationalized health care would seem more feasible. How is this supposed to be paid for? I swear they are living in a dream world of sliding money back and forth.

I don't think this country would pass a flat tax if they saw the percentage at one time. We seem to get screwed in bits and pieces instead of all at once.

[STsFirstmate]

I always wondered what a southern democrat would be like. For some reason I pictured them to be from the urban areas like Atlanta, Miami, and Dallas. I'm in the central valley of California. I'm surrounded by conservative farmers. The town I live in used to be in the Guinness book for having the most churches per cap-pita of any city in the world. Im a minority in this part of the state. The closest thing to militias we have here are guys who have bb gun wars down by the river.

Well I am from as rural an area in Kentucky as one can be from, a little town called Crackerneck.
I have family members , still living that were in the Klan.
I was blessed with very liberal parents. My Dad was born in Cincinnati and my Mom was born in Crackerneck. They were consistent in both their personal behavior and the belief's they professed. The N word wasn't tolerated in our home. My sister and I were both raised to judge people based on their character and we were taught that this was a land of equal opportunity and that at times we all need a helping hand whether it is from our family, our neighbors, our church, our community or our government we are all accountable for how we treat our fellow man.
This is one Democratic voice of the South for you.
Regards,
Mary

[JefeStone]

Well I am from as rural an area in Kentucky as one can be from, a little town called Crackerneck.
I have family members , still living that were in the Klan.
I was blessed with very liberal parents. My Dad was born in Cincinnati and my Mom was born in Crackerneck. They were consistent in both their personal behavior and the belief's they professed. The N word wasn't tolerated in our home. My sister and I were both raised to judge people based on their character and we were taught that this was a land of equal opportunity and that at times we all need a helping hand whether it is from our family, our neighbors, our church, our community or our government we are all accountable for how we treat our fellow man.
This is one Democratic voice of the South for you.
Regards,
Mary

Awesome. Crackerneck. I have to use that word in a conversation today.

[STsFirstmate]

Awesome. Crackerneck. I have to use that word in a conversation today.

It is right next to Big Sinking and Doublehead! and I had a type above. It is Crackersneck with an s ....makes all the difference.
Regards,
Mary

[Inked_Daddy]

I have been invited to the next meeting of the Georgia Tea Party... I have not decided if I will go or not. After this week's events I bet it will be interesting.

[JefeStone]

I have been invited to the next meeting of the Georgia Tea Party... I have not decided if I will go or not. After this week's events I bet it will be interesting.

That would be awesome. If you go take plenty of pictures.

[Paulination]

I work in the insurance industry.

I work in it as well and 75% of my activity involves health insurance. I have been getting calls all morning from concerned clients and friends and unfortunately as the bill sits today, the outlook is not good.

This is most definately the first step towards a single payer universal system and even though this administration swears that it is not, here is why it is:

From my earlier post:

"This bill mandates individuals buy coverage but has admittedly left out an enforcement mechanism other than the hiring of 16,000 extra IRS workers to try and chase down the penalty through tax returns. Healthy people between 20 and 40 will be reluctant to buy insurance and just deal with the fine until they get sick or pregnant. At that point they can join a plan because they won't be allowed to be rejected due to pre-existing conditions.

The insurance companies will be paying a premium to claims ratio that will be unsustainable and they will fail. At that point the government will HAVE to step in and "save" the system by taking over healthcare entirely. Just like that you have not a public option, but the only option. "

I believe everyone should have access to insurance if they want it. But it should be through the private sector because that is the only way have efficiency. Efficiency is necessary to contain costs. The private sector is always going to be more cost effective and efficient than the government. Just a fact. The government will end up screwing this up, that is just what they do.

[Flowergrrl]

To MAJCM- Medicare... I was told there was a glitch and that if a descendant lived in the house for up to a year before then the government couldn't seize the property?

Also, how do people go into retirement homes and then still have property to give to relatives? Their house, vehicles, etc.

[Flowergrrl]

Also, if the bill doesn't work... In three years Obama will be out and change it back.

How the fuck if we're so broke can we give all this money to other countries instead of taking care of our own?

And, women who stay on Medicaid and keep popping out kids should be sterilized before they are allowed to continue receiving government assistance. Or better to say that they HAVE to be kept on mandatory birth control (shots, implants, etc).

[JefeStone]

Also, if the bill doesn't work... In three years Obama will be out and change it back.

How the fuck if we're so broke can we give all this money to other countries instead of taking care of our own?

And, women who stay on Medicaid and keep popping out kids should be sterilized before they are allowed to continue receiving government assistance. Or better to say that they HAVE to be kept on mandatory birth control (shots, implants, etc).

Changing it back would be more expensive then keeping it. Without the reform bill the Government would be paying 1.7 Trillion instead of the 970 billion the new bill cost.

[Inked_Daddy]

That would be awesome. If you go take plenty of pictures.

It's on. I am attending with my Aunt and some inlaws.... I will let you know what they say.

[Jack-O-Lantern]

Not sure how many here actually utilize Medicare Parts A & B, or are personally familiar with how it works, but from someone who does and is, I can say that it's been an extremely efficient mechanism for me. MUCH more so than ANY private health insurance company I've ever dealt with in 30+ years of employment.

If Medicare is being held up as an example of how poorly the government runs things, I hasten to disagree. I will add, however, that as far as prescription coverage goes--it SUCKS. But this bill has provisions to close the notorious 'donut hole,' so when (and if) that happens I would consider Medicare to be far and away the best health insurance plan I've ever been involved with---fewer disputes, faster payments to doctors, you name it. I haven't had a single problem with them (with the exception of prescription coverage)--including surgeries, doctor visits, coverage, billing, ease-of-use, etc. It's efficient and it works, for me anyway, for what that's worth. I hope it stays that way.

...oh, and for those calling Medicare a "handout"--wrong. If you're working, you're paying into it. It's YOUR money, and believe me, you'll be glad you have it when the time comes, and that time will come--maybe much sooner than you think.

[mel306]

Not sure how many here actually utilize Medicare Parts A & B, or are personally familiar with how it works, but from someone who does and is, I can say that it's been an extremely efficient mechanism for me. MUCH more so than ANY private health insurance company I've ever dealt with in 30+ years of employment.

If Medicare is being held up as an example of how poorly the government runs things, I hasten to disagree. I will add, however, that as far as prescription coverage goes--it SUCKS. But this bill has provisions to close the notorious 'donut hole,' so when (and if) that happens I would consider Medicare to be far and away the best health insurance plan I've ever been involved with---fewer disputes, faster payments to doctors, you name it. I haven't had a single problem with them (with the exception of prescription coverage)--including surgeries, doctor visits, coverage, billing, ease-of-use, etc. It's efficient and it works, for me anyway, for what that's worth. I hope it stays that way.

...oh, and for those calling Medicare a "handout"--wrong. If you're working, you're paying into it. It's YOUR money, and believe me, you'll be glad you have it when the time comes, and that time will come--maybe much sooner than you think.

Medicare is government insurance however it is privatized in how it is administered so there is good and bad. But the main issue is that it is going bankrupt and that is the government's doing.

Medicare is not a handout, you get it because you essentially paid for it as you were working so it was there in your retirement. People don't understand that point nor do they get the difference between medicare and medicaid.

[mel306]

I work in it as well and 75% of my activity involves health insurance. I have been getting calls all morning from concerned clients and friends and unfortunately as the bill sits today, the outlook is not good.

This is most definately the first step towards a single payer universal system and even though this administration swears that it is not, here is why it is:

From my earlier post:

"This bill mandates individuals buy coverage but has admittedly left out an enforcement mechanism other than the hiring of 16,000 extra IRS workers to try and chase down the penalty through tax returns. Healthy people between 20 and 40 will be reluctant to buy insurance and just deal with the fine until they get sick or pregnant. At that point they can join a plan because they won't be allowed to be rejected due to pre-existing conditions.

The insurance companies will be paying a premium to claims ratio that will be unsustainable and they will fail. At that point the government will HAVE to step in and "save" the system by taking over healthcare entirely. Just like that you have not a public option, but the only option. "

I believe everyone should have access to insurance if they want it. But it should be through the private sector because that is the only way have efficiency. Efficiency is necessary to contain costs. The private sector is always going to be more cost effective and efficient than the government. Just a fact. The government will end up screwing this up, that is just what they do.

You are absolutely correct. Removing pre-existing conditions has opened the door to bankrupt insurance companies and if they fall, our options will be limited.

The private sector always works better because competition exists and keeps things on track. Any Universal plans are monopolies. When that happens, spending goes up and service goes down.

Right now, private sector insurance has an average administration percentage of 9.9%. Medicaid is 22%. And we have all seen the service in Medicaid. There is no recourse when you have an issue, because you cannot go anywhere else. Whereas if I have an issue with Cigna, I can always leave for Aetna and that keeps them in check.

[sablegsd]

Not sure how many here actually utilize Medicare Parts A & B, or are personally familiar with how it works, but from someone who does and is, I can say that it's been an extremely efficient mechanism for me. MUCH more so than ANY private health insurance company I've ever dealt with in 30+ years of employment.

If Medicare is being held up as an example of how poorly the government runs things, I hasten to disagree. I will add, however, that as far as prescription coverage goes--it SUCKS. But this bill has provisions to close the notorious 'donut hole,' so when (and if) that happens I would consider Medicare to be far and away the best health insurance plan I've ever been involved with---fewer disputes, faster payments to doctors, you name it. I haven't had a single problem with them (with the exception of prescription coverage)--including surgeries, doctor visits, coverage, billing, ease-of-use, etc. It's efficient and it works, for me anyway, for what that's worth. I hope it stays that way.

...oh, and for those calling Medicare a "handout"--wrong. If you're working, you're paying into it. It's YOUR money, and believe me, you'll be glad you have it when the time comes, and that time will come--maybe much sooner than you think.

Ditto. It's only going broke because of thievery by politicians and the seeming refusal to crack down on the major fraud perps.

[Paulination]

The private sector always works better because competition exists and keeps things on track. Any Universal plans are monopolies. When that happens, spending goes up and service goes down.

Right now, private sector insurance has an average administration percentage of 9.9%. Medicaid is 22%. And we have all seen the service in Medicaid. There is no recourse when you have an issue, because you cannot go anywhere else. Whereas if I have an issue with Cigna, I can always leave for Aetna and that keeps them in check.

I couldn't agree more.

[PurrPurr]

And, women who stay on Medicaid and keep popping out kids should be sterilized before they are allowed to continue receiving government assistance. Or better to say that they HAVE to be kept on mandatory birth control (shots, implants, etc).

You have no idea how many people out there agree with this part. Or limit the number of children they can have and THEN be subjected to mandatory birth control. I'm sick of these welfare queens who get EVERYTHING because they pop out 10 kids to 10 different men, while there's single, disabled people and seniors out there who need help and get practically NOTHING to live on.

[duster]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think you'll find that those single disabled people and the elderly will be be a MUCH bigger drain on your new health care system (I still love saying that, even after a few days ) than single moms. That's if our experience is anything to go on, anyway.

[Inked_Daddy]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I think you'll find that those single disabled people and the elderly will be be a MUCH bigger drain on your new health care system (I still love saying that, even after a few days ) than single moms. That's if our experience is anything to go on, anyway.

I guess you would have us all sitting around eating Poutain as well eh?

[cachluv]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/proposal

You can find information about the new health care at the above link. You can get the house bill (150 pages) but for some reason the Senate's version is unavailable right now.

Enjoy.

[JenniferLennon27]

VAT tax comming soon........

[Paulination]

VAT tax comming soon........

Hi Jennifer,

Welcome to the forum. BTW, what does VAT stand for? (I hope i don't end up looking like an idiot for asking).

[JenniferLennon27]

Value added tax is a consumtion tax levied at each stage value is added to a good or service.

[Paulination]

Value added tax is a consumtion tax levied at each stage value is added to a good or service.

Good answer. I have an accounting degree but missed that one. I think we'll get along fine.

[JenniferLennon27]

20%-30% is the norm in Europe

[JenniferLennon27]

Thanks hon

[Jack-O-Lantern]

One of my greatest friends, a single woman in her 50s, is a (recently) self-employed financial analyst who worked in the corporate sector for 35 years (10 of them as my boss). She cannot obtain private medical insurance from any carrier to whom she's applied for the simple fact that a bone density test came out 'undetermined' a couple of years ago...i.e., she may be osteoporosis-bound. The test wasn't even conclusive--and she's afraid to have another as it just might show that yes, she has a disease that millions of other women will contract at her age and that fact will complicate even further her efforts to obtain some kind of coverage.

I know health insurance carriers are not charitable organizations, they're out to make a buck, and it certainly makes sense from an economic standpoint to encourage competition among independent carriers--but the status quo with health insurance is not working for so many, and is in fact taking an enormous toll in human collateral. And the scary part is--anyone out there right now could be yet another one of those casualties, by the simple event of losing their job or contracting a disease. At some point, at some time, compassion and inclusion has to start playing some sort of role in all this--otherwise we all lose, as a country and as human beings. Certainly, we will pay higher taxes, and there will be other serious economic issues we haven't even dreamed of yet. I don't think there's much disagreement about that.
But.
The private sector has been given an eternity to make some sort of substantive effort to correct inherent and long-standing problems. Their tactic of choice: ignore the humanity at the core of this and lobby like holy fuck to keep things just as they are. They've HAD their chance, no? Might it not be time to try something else? Because there are far too many people left out in the cold right now--left to die, some of them.

Not banging the drum for this bill, and not taking a partisan stance either, just trying to make sense of it. Not a huge fan of this administration or the last one either for that matter. I have no idea how things will turn out as I don't have crystal balls. Rather, I'm praying for some type of substantive, positive change--whether it comes about directly as a result of the passing of this bill, OR from lessons learned from the mistakes and problems which come about as a result of its passing.

This attempt at reform is bold, it's risky, it's problematic, it might not work, it might create huge problems for our country. It might, it might, it might. But then again, it just might work out, whether in its current form or in its inevitable permutations which will undoubtedly come about down the road. Without attempts, without mistakes and experiments and successes and failures and movement, nothing progresses--things just stay the same or, as in this case, become much worse at a very brisk pace.

[cachluv]

One of my greatest friends, a single woman in her 50s, is a (recently) self-employed financial analyst who worked in the corporate sector for 35 years (10 of them as my boss). She cannot obtain private medical insurance from any carrier to whom she's applied for the simple fact that a bone density test came out 'undetermined' a couple of years ago...i.e., she may be osteoporosis-bound. The test wasn't even conclusive--and she's afraid to have another as it just might show that yes, she has a disease that millions of other women will contract at her age and that fact will complicate even further her efforts to obtain some kind of coverage.

I know health insurance carriers are not charitable organizations, they're out to make a buck, and it certainly makes sense from an economic standpoint to encourage competition among independent carriers--but the status quo with health insurance is not working for so many, and is in fact taking an enormous toll in human collateral. And the scary part is--anyone out there right now could be yet another one of those casualties, by the simple event of losing their job or contracting a disease. At some point, at some time, compassion and inclusion has to start playing some sort of role in all this--otherwise we all lose, as a country and as human beings. Certainly, we will pay higher taxes, and there will be other serious economic issues we haven't even dreamed of yet. I don't think there's much disagreement about that.
But.
The private sector has been given an eternity to make some sort of substantive effort to correct inherent and long-standing problems. Their tactic of choice: ignore the humanity at the core of this and lobby like holy fuck to keep things just as they are. They've HAD their chance, no? Might it not be time to try something else? Because there are far too many people left out in the cold right now--left to die, some of them.

Not banging the drum for this bill, and not taking a partisan stance either, just trying to make sense of it. Not a huge fan of this administration or the last one either for that matter. I have no idea how things will turn out as I don't have crystal balls. Rather, I'm praying for some type of substantive, positive change--whether it comes about directly as a result of the passing of this bill, OR from lessons learned from the mistakes and problems which come about as a result of its passing.

This attempt at reform is bold, it's risky, it's problematic, it might not work, it might create huge problems for our country. It might, it might, it might. But then again, it just might work out, whether in its current form or in its inevitable permutations which will undoubtedly come about down the road. Without attempts, without mistakes and experiments and successes and failures and movement, nothing progresses--things just stay the same or, as in this case, become much worse at a very brisk pace.

---Jacky-Jack, this is hands down the most AWESOME post of 2010. You truly, truly should get some kind of award for this.

[Luanne]

One of my greatest friends, a single woman in her 50s, is a (recently) self-employed financial analyst who worked in the corporate sector for 35 years (10 of them as my boss). She cannot obtain private medical insurance from any carrier to whom she's applied for the simple fact that a bone density test came out 'undetermined' a couple of years ago...i.e., she may be osteoporosis-bound. The test wasn't even conclusive--and she's afraid to have another as it just might show that yes, she has a disease that millions of other women will contract at her age and that fact will complicate even further her efforts to obtain some kind of coverage.

I know health insurance carriers are not charitable organizations, they're out to make a buck, and it certainly makes sense from an economic standpoint to encourage competition among independent carriers--but the status quo with health insurance is not working for so many, and is in fact taking an enormous toll in human collateral. And the scary part is--anyone out there right now could be yet another one of those casualties, by the simple event of losing their job or contracting a disease. At some point, at some time, compassion and inclusion has to start playing some sort of role in all this--otherwise we all lose, as a country and as human beings. Certainly, we will pay higher taxes, and there will be other serious economic issues we haven't even dreamed of yet. I don't think there's much disagreement about that.
But.
The private sector has been given an eternity to make some sort of substantive effort to correct inherent and long-standing problems. Their tactic of choice: ignore the humanity at the core of this and lobby like holy fuck to keep things just as they are. They've HAD their chance, no? Might it not be time to try something else? Because there are far too many people left out in the cold right now--left to die, some of them.

Not banging the drum for this bill, and not taking a partisan stance either, just trying to make sense of it. Not a huge fan of this administration or the last one either for that matter. I have no idea how things will turn out as I don't have crystal balls. Rather, I'm praying for some type of substantive, positive change--whether it comes about directly as a result of the passing of this bill, OR from lessons learned from the mistakes and problems which come about as a result of its passing.

This attempt at reform is bold, it's risky, it's problematic, it might not work, it might create huge problems for our country. It might, it might, it might. But then again, it just might work out, whether in its current form or in its inevitable permutations which will undoubtedly come about down the road. Without attempts, without mistakes and experiments and successes and failures and movement, nothing progresses--things just stay the same or, as in this case, become much worse at a very brisk pace.

I agree with cach. Great post. Great thoughts. This reflects how I feel about this whole situation. The thing is that you never know until you try it. Change is hard, change is scary, but it is necessary to move forward.

The behavior by this bill's opponents is nothing short of revolting. Get a grip, accept that the bill has passed, and do your best to understand what BOTH sides are saying about it instead of acting out in what has to be one of the worst societal temper tantrums ever. In addition to wanting (and, in some instances, praying) that the President fails, they are also wishing that the health care system will continue to fail (because it is for many people). Self-fulfilling prophecy comes to mind.

This bill will provide coverage to millions of people who do not have it, and what percentage of those are honest people who've been laid off and couldn't afford Cobra for more than a month after, or those who've been denied coverage because of pre-existing conditions? Is that their fault? NO. I don't understand people who go "Fuck 'em. I'm not paying for them." When did we become a country of assholes who don't give a shit about other people? Hello, we all pay for Medicare already. There will always be people who milk the system, no matter what sort of health care we have. I don't mind knowing my money will be taken and used to give more people at least the possibility of better, and even GOOD, health.

[cachluv]

ITA, Luanne.

PLUS, NOW, if for some reason I CAN'T pay for health coverage I know I won't go without. Like before. TWICE I've been bankrupted over medical costs (yes, I'm that old). That's wrong. Thank God for my husband's job and his coverage or I'd be ass-out on the sidewalk, hoping I don't so much as sneeze or blink wrong lest I can't pay for it and lose everything, all over again.

[Luanne]

ITA, Luanne.

PLUS, NOW, if for some reason I CAN'T pay for health coverage I know I won't go without. Like before. TWICE I've been bankrupted over medical costs (yes, I'm that old). That's wrong. Thank God for my husband's job and his coverage or I'd be ass-out on the sidewalk, hoping I don't so much as sneeze or blink wrong lest I can't pay for it and lose everything, all over again.

Exactly. I'm divorced, so my health insurance is all I have (even when I was married, my husband was on my policy). I had a kidney disease 10 years ago that recurred twice afterwards. Two years ago, I thought I was "flaring" again (having a recurrence). I had to go in to find out, but I was terrified I would get a notice in the mail from Aetna saying x and x tests weren't covered, because it is now considered a pre-existing condition. Those tests aren't cheap!

(Unfortunately, the pre-existing condition thing doesn't kick in until 2014 (I believe). I hope that changes. WTF, why will it take so long?)

[Forever-27]

Myself ... im a single 39 year old. No Kids, No wife and unemployeed for the moment.

I havent set foot in a hospital since the late 1970s/early 1980s when I was doing physicals for sports as a kid. Simply put , I dont get sick. However Mr Obama will force me to buy a health care plan I dont need. Unless I buy their plan, Ill face fines and penalities by the government. Moreover I think this bill will hurt small businesses. They will be forced to provide health care they cant afford and will need to close down. Mr Obama says he will tax the extream rich to help fund this. Theres only a small handful of people that make over 300,000 plus a year. Thoes people hire people like me. If they or their businesses are taxed to the max, they will either close down or be less apt to hire to prepare for the blow of the high taxes.

Aside from this bill being trainwreck, it will spell political sucide for the democrats that voted for it come November. This bill was rammed down our throats and nancy pelosi wouldnt even allow us to see it until it had already been voted on.

Its brutally obivious the president and congress dont care what the people want. this is all im going to say on the matter.

[Inked_Daddy]

I think the comparision of the health care bill and "The New Deal" is interesting. Republicans took it to the supreme court as well.
http://modern-us-history.suite101.co...eal_opposition


I do think the "I do not want to pay for others" argument does not hold water. We currently pay for tons of things that we may never recieve benefits from. I guess one example would be saying "I do not want to pay taxes for the Fire Dept. to put out a fire at someone elses home". It does not make much sense.

As a conservative (no longer a republican) I really hope they do this in a manner that will help the people that need it and not fuck things up. I do believe they need to do something about the abuses of our current system (illegal immigrants getting free healthcare for example...coming here to have babies, etc). That is the type of stuff that I do not want to pay for.

[cachluv]

Daddy, you may or may not believe this, but we think alike on ssoooo many levels and issues.

[Inked_Daddy]

Daddy, you may or may not believe this, but we think alike on ssoooo many levels and issues.

I believe it. Most people think some type of reform is needed.

[neilmpenny]

One of my greatest friends, a single woman in her 50s, is a (recently) self-employed financial analyst who worked in the corporate sector for 35 years (10 of them as my boss). She cannot obtain private medical insurance from any carrier to whom she's applied for the simple fact that a bone density test came out 'undetermined' a couple of years ago...i.e., she may be osteoporosis-bound. The test wasn't even conclusive--and she's afraid to have another as it just might show that yes, she has a disease that millions of other women will contract at her age and that fact will complicate even further her efforts to obtain some kind of coverage.

I know health insurance carriers are not charitable organizations, they're out to make a buck, and it certainly makes sense from an economic standpoint to encourage competition among independent carriers--but the status quo with health insurance is not working for so many, and is in fact taking an enormous toll in human collateral. And the scary part is--anyone out there right now could be yet another one of those casualties, by the simple event of losing their job or contracting a disease. At some point, at some time, compassion and inclusion has to start playing some sort of role in all this--otherwise we all lose, as a country and as human beings. Certainly, we will pay higher taxes, and there will be other serious economic issues we haven't even dreamed of yet. I don't think there's much disagreement about that.
But.
The private sector has been given an eternity to make some sort of substantive effort to correct inherent and long-standing problems. Their tactic of choice: ignore the humanity at the core of this and lobby like holy fuck to keep things just as they are. They've HAD their chance, no? Might it not be time to try something else? Because there are far too many people left out in the cold right now--left to die, some of them.

Not banging the drum for this bill, and not taking a partisan stance either, just trying to make sense of it. Not a huge fan of this administration or the last one either for that matter. I have no idea how things will turn out as I don't have crystal balls. Rather, I'm praying for some type of substantive, positive change--whether it comes about directly as a result of the passing of this bill, OR from lessons learned from the mistakes and problems which come about as a result of its passing.

This attempt at reform is bold, it's risky, it's problematic, it might not work, it might create huge problems for our country. It might, it might, it might. But then again, it just might work out, whether in its current form or in its inevitable permutations which will undoubtedly come about down the road. Without attempts, without mistakes and experiments and successes and failures and movement, nothing progresses--things just stay the same or, as in this case, become much worse at a very brisk pace.

Mate, I have known you here for a long time and you know I am a huge fan of yours. I find you to be of very consistent character and every now and then you provide an insight into a topic that is laser precise and extremely concise.

In this post you have highlighted eloquently something which my brusque and flippant posts have failed to do and I applaud you for it.

[cachluv]

Toldja, Jack

[Inked_Daddy]

Mate, I have known you here for a long time and you know I am a huge fan of yours. I find you to be of very consistent character and every now and then you provide an insight into a topic that is laser precise and extremely concise.

In this post you have highlighted eloquently something which my brusque and flippant posts have failed to do and I applaud you for it.

Well said... this is why I am a Jack Fan.

[shipmatekate]

I think the comparision of the health care bill and "The New Deal" is interesting. Republicans took it to the supreme court as well.
http://modern-us-history.suite101.co...eal_opposition


I do think the "I do not want to pay for others" argument does not hold water. We currently pay for tons of things that we may never recieve benefits from. I guess one example would be saying "I do not want to pay taxes for the Fire Dept. to put out a fire at someone elses home". It does not make much sense.

As a conservative (no longer a republican) I really hope they do this in a manner that will help the people that need it and not fuck things up. I do believe they need to do something about the abuses of our current system (illegal immigrants getting free healthcare for example...coming here to have babies, etc). That is the type of stuff that I do not want to pay for.

May I ask why you are no longer a republican?

[Paulination]

[quote=Jack-O-Lantern;1020360]She cannot obtain private medical insurance from any carrier to whom she's applied for the simple fact that a bone density test came out 'undetermined' a couple of years ago...quote]

Jack, I know this isn't the point of your post but there is a way to get her covered through a major carrier on a guarenteed issue basis. I don't want to go into it because I don't want to seem like I am violating the terms of this forum by soliciting but any GOOD insurance broker can tell you how to do it and it is perfectly legitimate.

I can get 95 out of 100 people who contacts me health insurance using the laws and policies that are currently in place. It just requires effort on both our parts.

I agree that reform is necessary but mandating covering without an approporiate enforcement mechanism and then giving everyone with pre-existing conditions coverage will kill the private sector. If that is what people want, then just say so, but burying your heads in the sand with the attitude of "well, lets try it and see what happens" attitude is going to get us killed. I already know what will happen because it is mathmatical:

expenses > revenue = insolvency.

People I know on the inside predict the private sector health insurance will collapse by 2016.

[neilmpenny]

expenses > revenue = insolvency.

The assumption being of course that expenses will exceed revenue.

[Inked_Daddy]

May I ask why you are no longer a republican?

Largely because of their spending. I think many times they are looking out for big business and not the working guy. I believe they have completely failed at reaching out to the Dems as well.