Originally Posted by MIZIZVOGUE
And I don't want to pay for ANYONE'S snot nosed breeding results schooling, but I have no choice.
I have no children, why should I pay???
Renowned Death Hag
And I don't want to pay for ANYONE'S snot nosed breeding results schooling, but I have no choice.
I have no children, why should I pay???
Renowned Death Hag
I guess 859 billion just aint enough?
Look to the ACTIONS of the conservatives, don't listen to their words.
They do not practice what they preach.
Renowned Death Hag
Same boat here, imadeathag. I have to pick which prescriptions I get. I basically live on 740 a month. Yeah, that's it, and no I'm not on Medicaid.
I've said it before and I say it again - People shouldn't have to die in this country because they can't afford a pill or medicine.
However, I'm not sure this is going to work either.
Renowned Death Hag
I will be losing my health coverage in a couple months, I take 6 medications a day. I too will have to pick and choose what to take. So, do I go ahead and have seizures and skip my epilepsy meds, or should I drop the thyroid meds?
Renowned Death Hag
I am with you Jack. Unless somebody has read the entire bill I do not think they can safely comment on it.
The Republicans turned their backs on conservative christian values long ago. I think neither party has the moral high ground... they are all politicians after all.
I do think opposing a bad bill does not make a person a bad Christian. On the other hand not aiding the sick and poor goes against the basic tenants of Christianity. I personally would hate to be in the position of trying to balance the two.
Yeah, it's too bad obama sold out to big pharma and there is NO relief for drugs
in this piece of shit bill.
Yeah, the big O said no to any form of cheaper drugs.
Fucking lying bags of guts, every damn one of them.
Renowned Death Hag
Does anybody understand this bill? I've read a couple of newspaper accounts and watched HLN's coverage and I still have no idea how healthcare will be delivered in the US in future. What's going to change?
---That's how I feel about this too. It's a big picture type of deal, IMO people are placing way too much emphasis on one specific part.
I have no children but I sure pay for education. For years, I didn't own a car and paid out my ass for highway and road repair, new road construction(s), etc. This is part of living in a society. It's always going to be a shared living or economic situation or dynamic when there's more than one person involved. I do believe this is all being done in the interest of the greater good. To benefit more people.
And I have noticed that between liberals vs. conservatives, it's usually the latter who try to control the living conditions and establish the operational rules of others however best personally suits themselves. Just saying is all.
I also agree with others here that I would need to actually sit down with about 2 weeks to spare to read that bill before I could personally agree or disagree on a whole about it.
I wasn't sure on the idea at first - maybe there were some things that made me a bit nervous, being single with no dependents. But since I began following the health care issue a bit more closely, and then the bill passed, I feel a little more secure - at least for now.
In 2005, I had my appendix removed due to a rare digestive condition, and then entire bill (all was covered) was about $23,000. This was just for a 24-hour hospital stay! So I'm grateful to be insured in more ways than one.
You're all fucked...whether they passed the bill or not. Get ready to take it in the pooper, Americans!
Death Hag Extraordinaire
I dunno. But the gist of it to me seems like there are 30 million Americans who will now have access to a public medical program where they did not before. Yeah yeah, we are all going Socialist yada yada but I believe in giving the disadvantaged a helping hand.
I am a sick puppy....woof woof!!!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Carping the living shit out of the Diem. - Me!!
http://www.pinterest.com/neilmpenny
Renowned Death Hag
The United States is ranked 37th in the world by the WHO for health care systems. I love how the right says we are "ruining" the best health care in the world. We pay pay twice as much money as the leaders in those rankings but we cover far fewer people. The Health insurance industry made over 800 billion dollars last year alone. That is almost as much as the cost of both of the wars we are fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq since they began. Stop listening to the doom and gloom rhetoric that the ventriloquist dummy's of the insurance company's are spouting off, and just do a little research from independent sources. It isn't that bad.
Last edited by JefeStone; 03-22-2010 at 10:42 AM.
Renowned Death Hag
Yes - part of living in a society.
That's why I never started bleating about paying for someones snot nosed shits education. None of my business - I just have to pay taxes to educate the little beasts. Imagine wanting them to have health care? What a concept!
Renowned Death Hag
Yes, well the right lying through their dentures is pretty common.
They don't give a damn about the country and especially about the people.
They also cater to FEAR to get people to follow them.
Unfortuantely the things they use as fear tools are BS. They keep folks distracted from what is really going on by doing this.
Evil
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Renowned Death Hag
Wow indeed....as a civil conversation about universal healthcare degenerates into name-calling and bitterness. Sad.
Renowned Death Hag
Florida says several states to file healthcare lawsuit
Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:01am EDT
MIAMI, March 22 (Reuters) - Florida's attorney general will file a lawsuit with nine other state attorneys general opposing the healthcare legislation passed by Congress, a spokeswoman said on Monday.
Bonds
"The health care reform legislation passed by the U.S. House of Representatives last night clearly violates the U.S. Constitution and infringes on each state's sovereignty," Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum, a Republican, said in a prepared statement announcing a news conference.
"On behalf of the State of Florida and of the Attorneys General from South Carolina, Nebraska, Texas, Utah, Pennsylvania, Washington, North Dakota, South Dakota and Alabama if the President signs this bill into law, we will file a lawsuit to protect the rights and the interests of American citizens." (Reporting by Michael Connor, Editing by Chizu Nomiyama)
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN...8:b32108072:z0
Renowned Death Hag
Tip of my hat to you, Neil.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
---You're right, Duster. As usual.
I duly apologize for my part in any slippery-slopedness. Sincerely. We are supposed to have different ideas and opinions.
Duster I have done as much research on it as I have had time to.
It is summarized pretty well on the White House website. The navigator on the left takes you to sectional summaries. Of course you can find 50 different spins on each one of these on other websites.
I the biggest features that will positively impact the majority of Americans is the large pool of insurance options that will likely provide preventative medicine coverage for men and women of low income like mammograms, postrate exams etc. This is one of the larger gaps that negatively impacts longevity for low income people. It also pushes back on the "cheaper to chop" insurance standards for low income Americans that make it cheaper for an insurance company to remove a diabetics foot rather than counsel and provide preventive care they just can't get now including compression stockings etc.
The fact that you can't be denied for preexisting conditions under the new bill. I know a pediatrician who is pressured constantly to not document diagnosis for asthma with kids but instead call it allergies because it is less punitive as a preexisting condition if the parents change jobs and there fore insurance carriers.
The way I see it , it is a good thing whose time has come. I have to have my car insured in this state and many others and I can be fined for not doing so. I don't see this as much different and I think it will have a positive impact on the long term health of people thus reducing catastrophic health costs a bit over time.
I don't mind paying for help for others who really need it.I make good money and even my co-pays are paid for with my insurance. I don't mind paying a little more for my premiums to help others if I know fraud is being monitored and the rapacious insurance companies are being brought back to reality a bit.
They is a difference between over regulation and no regulation and they both lead to abuses. Like everything the correct path is prudent controls and oversight and healthy, competitive market for consumers.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/health-care-meeting/proposal
Just my opinion.
Regards,
Mary
Yep. I left my illness go because I could not afford the expense and look what happened to me 2 weeks ago. I had to go to the ER for an urgent blood transfusion. My blood levels were so low that the Doctor freaked out and having Lupus on top of it does not help.
I'm tired of the damn premiums going up, then having to wait for the deductibles to kick in, pay for what the insurance did not cover, and then pay outrageous amounts for prescriptions (that I need) which results in scraping pennies to get by? Like I mentioned in an earlier thread, I'm in debt and have to file for bankruptcy.
"Answering the call of history". How appropriate.
Pelosi, Reid and the Dems in Congress will be "history" come November. And there's a pretty good chance Obama will be a one-term president now.
Comparing it to Medicare and Social Security is apt because those programs will be bankrupt in a few years as well. Although the difference is, this healthcare bill is bankrupt before it's even been enacted, whereas it's taken 70 years for Social Security and 40 years for Medicare. I like that, how the government keeps beating its previous records.
Even if this thing does become popular as most government handouts eventually do, the benefits, payouts from this bill don't even start for another 4 years although we'll start paying the taxes for it immediately. Just one of the many nonsensical gimmicks that they did to try to make the bill sound like it cuts the deficit.
This also marks the first time any massive sweeping legislation of this sort in United States history that has ever passed on a strict party-line vote. Not only were Republicans against it, Independents were against it and even many Democrats were against it. It has opposition from the right, from the left and from the center. When the only bi-partisan aspect of a bill is the opposition to it, that should give you an indication of how great this bill really is. Not to mention all the behind closed door deals they had to cut to pass it.
Do I correctly understand you to say you think that social security and medicare are a "handout"."Answering the call of history". How appropriate.
Pelosi, Reid and the Dems in Congress will be "history" come November. And there's a pretty good chance Obama will be a one-term president now.
Comparing it to Medicare and Social Security is apt because those programs will be bankrupt in a few years as well. Although the difference is, this healthcare bill is bankrupt before it's even been enacted, whereas it's taken 70 years for Social Security and 40 years for Medicare. I like that, how the government keeps beating its previous records.
Even if this thing does become popular as most government handouts eventually do, the benefits, payouts from this bill don't even start for another 4 years although we'll start paying the taxes for it immediately. Just one of the many nonsensical gimmicks that they did to try to make the bill sound like it cuts the deficit.
This also marks the first time any massive sweeping legislation of this sort in United States history that has ever passed on a strict party-line vote. Not only were Republicans against it, Independents were against it and even many Democrats were against it. It has opposition from the right, from the left and from the center. When the only bi-partisan aspect of a bill is the opposition to it, that should give you an indication of how great this bill really is. Not to mention all the behind closed door deals they had to cut to pass it.
Interesting.
regards,
Mary
Renowned Death Hag
I was referring to the Republican congressmen and senators who have taken millions in payouts from the Health Insurance industry. Read it here. You want to cut through the rhetoric? Follow the money.
http://blog.sunlightfoundation.com/2...campaign-cash/
I haven't seen democrats shouting nigger, fag and baby killer. I haven't seen democrats burning effigy's of the president or spitting on members of congress. To win elections you need the independent voter. Crazed finger pointing and name calling by republican elected officials and GPAC funded fake grassroots groups like the tea partiers arent going to get those votes. To get those votes you need ideas, not scare tactics
Last edited by JefeStone; 03-22-2010 at 02:31 PM.
Guest
Exactly my man.
Renowned Death Hag
The slurs from the protestors were denounced by the RNC.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0310/34763.html
Low life behavior from a fringe element. We have seen the same bullshit from social liberals who protest at the funerals of our fallen soldiers.
Both sides have their nutcases.
Renowned Death Hag
It was a Texan Congressman who yelled baby killer on the floor of congress last night not a protestor. GOP congressmen were cheering on the lunatic fringe from the balcony of the capitol buliding yesterday. One of the protestors got in the buliding and shouted "Kill the Bill" into the chamber and republican congressmen broke out in cheers. The fan the flames of that fringe to fire up thier base. Unfortunately their base includes racists and militia groups.
Last edited by JefeStone; 03-22-2010 at 02:52 PM.
Renowned Death Hag
We've already been taking it up the ass for years. Maybe with the new health care bill we'll be able to buy pharmaceutical grade lube.You're all fucked...whether they passed the bill or not. Get ready to take it in the pooper, Americans!
Renowned Death Hag
Renowned Death Hag
Inked can you be specific about what "liberal" groups have protested at military funerals. I am genuinely not aware of any and as a card carrying liberal I would like to know who they are so that in writing I can take them to task.
I only know of the that crazy anti-gay church that shows up at the funerals with signs saying God killed your sons and daughters because of homosexuality. They are nuts but they are not liberal.
I shake everyone on my email tree to call foul on any group, right or left that disrupts a military funeral or bothers a grieving family.
The only thing I could find on line is this link to legal action brought against the whack job church to introduce a law making it criminal to disrupt a military funeral. I hope it passes. It was a bi-partisan bill introduced by a republican and a Democrat.
http://www.cga.ct.gov/2007/TOB/S/200...319-R01-SB.htm
http://www.firstamendmentcoalition.o...itary-funeral/
Unless you know something specific I don't liberals, even anti-war protesters draw the line at disrupting funerals of the the fallen.
Regards,
Mary
Renowned Death Hag
Sad, sad state of affairs.
Renowned Death Hag
Mary,
IF this happened at all it was most likely an isolated incident.
The only whack jobs at soldiers funerals that I am aware of is Fred Phelps and his crew.
Not like the bad old days when they would not allow people with anti Bush bumper stickers into their press conferences eh? How soon they forget.
Renowned Death Hag
You are correct and I was wrong on that one... usually I check my facts better. I apologize. I honestly thought that had been extreme leftist groups.
I still stand by the notion that it is rediculous to imply that Dems and social liberals have never shouted slurs, formed militias, called people baby killers, etc. Do I need to mention Robert Byrd or Vietnam Protestors?
We have seen all this stuff time and time again...but the statements here vilifying the right and making the left out to be saints are intellectually dishonest at best.
Renowned Death Hag
I don't think it is that black and white, nothing ever is.
The conservative party needs to regroup and dump the lunatics who shout the "n" word and "Baby Killer" and "You lie"
It APPEARS that conservatives APPROVE of this behaviour
Renowned Death Hag
I agree there are nuts on both sides but I find the idea of a left wing militia hilarious. What are they gonna do, hit someone with their Ipad? LOL
Renowned Death Hag
So that makes it ok? It's all better now????
Renowned Death Hag
Yep, they will ask them "How do you feel about this, REALLY feel?"
I agree there is bad behavior on both sides and on all issues. The funeral thing was just a hot button for me because we attend every public service for a fallen service member in any of the boros and on LI. I have seen these idiots in action and it makes my blood boil.
I would have been disappointed but I guess not surprised if you knew of a liberal group doing anything remotely disruptive.
Civil discourse seems to be a lost art and people on both sides behave badly but I must say the GOP seems to have a fear motivated base at this point. Fear makes people do really stupid things.
The people yelling the N word and Fag are probably nice people if you met them when your car was broken down or at a church supper and you weren't black, gay, an immigrant or Asian. They just seem to be terrified by anything different than them and they get caught up in the mob mentality.
On the left the same thing happened at Kent State and in Chicago with ugly results.
Also there are always professional agitators embedded in these crowds from both sides with agenda's that are uglier and meaner than those of the average attendee.
Regards,
Mary
Renowned Death Hag
Now I gotta go buy a camouflage Linux shirt
Renowned Death Hag
Renowned Death Hag
Renowned Death Hag
Stop inciting this type of behavior for starters.
Renowned Death Hag
I would like to know if anyone has heard about this part of the change. I have not heard it discussed. Medicare/Medicaid is government run health care, as we all know. So this will be government run health care. A little background of my experience: I work with Medicare in my job as a legal secretary for personal injury victims. We hate taking people on Medicare (but we do) because they are SO hard to deal with. You cannot get a name of who you are talking to so you can deal w/the same person. Every item you need done, a new form sent for example, they say they have 60 days to get you your answer. By law, if there is a settlement from a personal injury, any insurance that has paid medical bills must be reimbursed before the client gets the settlement. I get that..it's fair. But everything takes SO LONG to get done with Medicare. It drags cases out for years and that is no exaggeration!
Now the question. I just found out at work last week for a lady who is not getting better and may end up in a nursing home /assisted living. While she is in her right mind, her son is having her house put in his name because Medicare is allowed to take any and all assets of a person to pay their long term care bills before they will pay. This is why some poor long-married couples have to divorce so the one at home will have something to live on/a place to live. Now my boss says Medicare will go back FIVE YEARS to see if the person has transfered any property and if so, will still take the property!!! A sin in my book. Now if a younger person with property (just their home and a car, say) has a catastrophic illness under this new health care, will the government insurance take their property as Medicare does??? That is what scares me the most. Do we (at 47 & 52) go ahead and put our home in our 21 y.o. stepdaughters name as a safeguard? That is crazy, but I want to protect our property that we've worked HARD to own!
Renowned Death Hag
I always wondered what a southern democrat would be like. For some reason I pictured them to be from the urban areas like Atlanta, Miami, and Dallas. I'm in the central valley of California. I'm surrounded by conservative farmers. The town I live in used to be in the Guinness book for having the most churches per cap-pita of any city in the world. Im a minority in this part of the state. The closest thing to militias we have here are guys who have bb gun wars down by the river.
The only people I've seen protest at funerals of fallen soldiers are nutty hateful bible thumpers and these are the same damn people who bomb abortion clinics or go on a shooting spree and kill the doctors. I for one support the soldiers, I DO NOT support the war. I've been to anti-war rallies and we were called really nasty names by republicans that were there. They were picking a fight, not us.
I know we all agree to disagree, but I'm done with this thread before it gets ugly.
Last edited by imadeathhag; 03-22-2010 at 04:49 PM.
Renowned Death Hag
The Southern Dems that I grew up around were ones that saw the benefits of the "New Deal" that saved the south in many areas. They are usually socially conservative but are big believers in government programs.
Zell Miller is a good example of such.
I think the abortion issue is really what caused many, many Southernors to jump from the Democratic party. This alone is the reason I cannot ever vote Dem.
I would say that a Democrat in the Metro Atlanta area is more like Dems in other parts of the country.
There's so many half truths floating around out there. I'm going to sit back and wait a bit before commenting.
Renowned Death Hag
There is no doubt that the healtcare system in terms of the insurance industry and the delivery system have problems that need to be addressed but this is bill is not the answer.
This is not a democrat position or a republican position, it is a mathmatical one. This bill mandates individuals buy coverage but has admittedly left out an enforcement mechanism other than the hiring of 16,000 extra IRS workers to try and chase down the penalty through tax returns. Healthy people between 20 and 40 will be reluctant to buy insurance and just deal with the fine until they get sick or pregnant. At that point they can join a plan because they won't be allowed to be rejected due to pre-existing conditions.
The insurance companies will be paying a premium to claims ratio that will be unsustainable and they will fail. At that point the government will HAVE to step in and "save" the system by taking over healthcare entirely. Just like that you have not a public option, but the only option.
If you have ever been to the DMV or tried to deal with Medicare, well then welcome to your life.
Renowned Death Hag
ROFLWe've already been taking it up the ass for years. Maybe with the new health care bill we'll be able to buy pharmaceutical grade lube.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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