Health Insurance and National Health Care

[RiotBoots]

Shortly after the the Obamacare insurance marketplace launched on Oct. 1, users of social media experienced a burst of complaints on Twitter and Facebook, ranging from technical glitches to substantive concerns.
But for our readers, one post stood out.
Many readers sent us a Facebook postthat went viral and has since been circulated by chain-email. It was originally posted on the Facebook page ofHealthcare.gov, the federal government’s portal to the new insurance marketplace created under President Barack Obama’s health care law. The marketplace is designed to offer one-stop shopping for health insurance plans for Americans whose employers do not offer coverage.
The Facebook post claims to be from a man named Will Sheehan. (We couldn’t confirm his identity.) The post says that he tried to sign up for Obamacare and then decided to not go along with it; he then said he received an email detailing fines he would face.
Here’s the full text of the post:
"I actually made it through this morning at 8:00 A.M. I have a preexisting condition (Type 1 Diabetes) and my income base was 45K-55K annually I chose tier 2 ‘Silver Plan’ and my monthly premiums came out to $597.00 with $13,988 yearly deductible!!! There is NO POSSIBLE way that I can afford this so I ‘opt-out’ and chose to continue along with no insurance. I received an email tonight at 5:00 P.M. informing me that my fine would be $4,037 and could be attached to my yearly income tax return. Then you make it to the ‘REPERCUSSIONS PORTION’ for ‘non-payment’ of yearly fine. First, your drivers license will be suspended until paid, and if you go 24 consecutive months with ‘Non-Payment’ and you happen to be a home owner, you will have a federal tax lien placed on your home. You can agree to give your bank information so that they can easy ‘Automatically withdraw’ your ‘penalties’ weekly, bi-weekly or monthly! This by no means is ‘Free’ or even ‘Affordable’."
We will check a number of the post’s claims below.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...le-obamacare-/

[Bidmor]

Riot, I received that same chain email today.

[homesgirl]

Here's the end of the PolitiFact article - claims it's fake:

Our ruling
The Facebook post tells the story of a man who says he opted out of Obamacare soon after the marketplace was launched on Oct. 1, 2013, and was informed that he owed a fine of more than $4,000.
The post includes many elements that make no sense or are flat-out wrong -- and can be easily debunked by reading the law or reliable summaries of it. We rate it Pants on Fire.

[PurrPurr]

So Purr~ is this really your personal experience or did you copy this? Im serious...I want to know

The man actually did it for shits and giggles...he's content with the insurance he has (God knows he pays enough for it). He checked off arthritis and stated his income, and those were the figures he got, and emailed me a copy. My results would probably be considerably less, but I'm also sticking with the insurance I already have.

[Wendy A.]

Obama is caving (as I knew he would) and is willing to discuss changes to Obamacare in hopes of getting the government going again. I'm hoping they shove it off for a year and change some other bullshit with it.

[shipmatekate]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

Now explain why the GOP is ok

Bastards

[Forever-27]

He wont wendy, he is a narcisist. Kuddos to Ted Cruz, hes my new adopted representative in DC since I don't have any resresentation

[Wendy A.]

Sure he will, Barry ALWAYS caves, the man lacks a backbone. I'm kinda shocked he's held out this long.

[Paulination]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

Now explain why the GOP is ok

Bastards

There are so many holes in that "historical" piece you posted it looks like the Jaguars offensive line. In otherwords, big and many.

[Drew]

Three times as much for health care that's not as good, companies laying off to stay under x number of employees to get out of the employer mandate, employers cutting employees back to 29 hours a week for the same reason. I presume that you're not in a situation where you'll have to comply with the monstrosity.
Some of us "hate," i.e. we pay attention. Given past examples of Government run programs we would know that any new government run program will be crap. The Medicaid programs were started in the 1960s to cover the poor and uninsured at the cost of Trillions of dollars being borrowed from Medicare and Social Security over the years ,you would think that the poor and unemployed had no healthcare at all if you listen to the talking-heads in media or Democrat party and some of the Republican Party ,you need to know those on welfare have better healthcare than those of us who play for own! Take note of birthrate of those on government Medicaid their numbers have gone up over the years and they are not having their babies at home without a doctor"s care like crooks in charge like to pretend. P.S I am a registered Democrat !

[McMorbid]

Well put Drew. And welcome to FAD!

[Wendy A.]

Yes! Welcome Drew and I agree with you! Very well put. I'm a democrat too, and since this Obamacare crap started, I question if I still am daily.

[Bidmor]

Interesting read, and the author is probably right:

"Epic fail: 99% of Obamacare applications can't be processed, nightmare scenario coming in January"

(NaturalNews) Obamacare is going to crash and burn from technical issues more than political concerns, it seems.

http://www.naturalnews.com/042376_Ob...hcaregov.html#

[Forever-27]

Wendy, this is what you wanted, you voted for this. Your vote canceled mine out. I knew he was an epic failure back in 06 and 07 during his campaign.

[SRVFan]

Some interesting links. I highly suggest everyone read them.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0812/79266.html

http://moneymorning.com/ob/5-hidden-...-middle-class/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...amily-of-four/

http://blog.heritage.org/2012/06/29/...ass-americans/

http://cfif.org/v/index.php/commenta...e-middle-class

http://www.nrcc.org/2012/09/20/obama...-middle-class/

[Bidmor]

Tell me about, SRV. I got my package from Humana last week, where my current policy is. The premium is going from $495 to $660, however the deductible is dropping from $10000 to $6000. This is supposedly Humana's least expensive policy.

[Wendy A.]

Wendy, this is what you wanted, you voted for this. Your vote canceled mine out. I knew he was an epic failure back in 06 and 07 during his campaign.

If I had a dollar for every damn time you tell me this....(and I know why you only tell me.. you know I'm not going to go all bat shit crazy on ya) My vote did not cancel yours out (electoral college) btw... I'm in Indiana. Its a red state. It went to Romney so basically my vote didn't count. I still love ya though!

[Forever-27]

I know, liberals have a tough time accepting the truth

[Paulination]

Wendy, this is what you wanted, you voted for this. Your vote canceled mine out. I knew he was an epic failure back in 06 and 07 during his campaign.

Forever, I agree with you on ALOT of things but your attitude towards Wendy is too narrow and unfair. She never liked Obamacare (as far as I can tell) but when comparing the two candidates, she decided overall that Obama was best. I can respect that when it comes from her.

Wendy is far from an ideologue which I find refreshing, liberal or not.

[SRVFan]

Obama explains how the healthcare act works.

[Paulination]

Obama explains how the healthcare act works.

Please tell me that was not real.

[RiotBoots]

Help me Rhonda..

[SRVFan]

Democrat Voters Confused: “I Didn’t Realize I Would Be The One Who Was Going to Pay For It Personally”

“Of course, I want people to have health care,” Vinson said. “I just didn’t realize I would be the one who was going to pay for it personally.”

http://dcclothesline.com/2013/10/08/...it-personally/

[Bidmor]

Please tell me that was not real.

It was real...real good editing. Of course that's a comedy bit. Leno's done it. All of them have.

I think even SNL Weekend Update, or whatever they call their news bit now, jumped on board. I saw a SNL news clip...the gal, describing the Obamacare site being down was like "1-800-FLOWERS being caught off guard by Valentine's Day".

[choff]

Three times as much for health care that's not as good, companies laying off to stay under x number of employees to get out of the employer mandate, employers cutting employees back to 29 hours a week for the same reason.

The cutting of hours thing..where I work within the last three weeks we had about 10 employees give up their full-time status on their own and go part-time because they feared of getting their hours cut due to Obamacare and therefor be demoted to part-time. Sounds odd at first that anyone would do that but talking to one of my co-workers who did just that she was saying that rather than just waiting to be demoted to part-time and/or totally laid off down the road but to just go ahead and go part-time right now it will give her a chance to look for another part-time job so between both totally unrelated jobs she can get 35 to 40 hours a week.

[Nessa]

I don't think Obamacare/Affordable Care Act as I understand it is the ticket, but I am neither a lawmaker nor a health insurance professional so I could not begin to come up with an alternative. However, I suggest we take a look at how well Switzerland and other European countries have done with universal health care. Switzerland has done very well. They invest heavily in their citizens.

Being healthy and knowing that if you become ill, from a cold to cancer, and knowing that you won't have to choose between eating and chemo is a right, not a privilege. I have heard too many doctors and practitioners scoff, "They're Medicaid," or, (and this is a direct quote), "I can tell they're a good family with insurance because they're polite and clean and they dress well." (The family in question was, in fact, on Medicaid.) I am sick of holier-than-thou politicians (and some of my fellow Americans) behave as if being poor were a contagious disease. I know too many people with too many serious, chronic illnesses who fight to fill over-priced prescriptions and pay off ridiculously costly doctor bills. Insurance is big business. Pharmaceuticals are big business. The healthcare industry is not about healthcare, it's about making money.

Insurance companies do not care about you.

Big Pharma does not care about you.

The healthcare industry does not care about you.

The government definitely does not care about you.

Congress is on both sides behaving like 3 year olds in a sandbox fighting over toys. The Dems hate the Republicans so they refuse to budge. The Republicans hate the Dems so they refuse to budge. Remember when compromise was a good thing? There were centrists all over the place. We are now represented by hard-liners, kids. I really hope this ISN'T what the country wanted.

I find it reprehensible that adults that were voted in on good faith by everyday Americans have so wholly thrown us all under the bus. This is ridiculous. The rest of the world looks at the state of our government right now and laughs.

[SRVFan]

DEMOCRATS TO AMERICA: WE OWN THE GOVERNMENT!


If you are in the minority of Americans not already unalterably opposed to Obamacare, keep in mind that the only reason the government is shut down right now is that Democrats refuse to fund the government if they are required to live under Obamacare.

That's how good it is!

http://news.yahoo.com/democrats-amer...223010441.html

[Forever-27]

Paul. In 2009 this was rolled out, no forced upon us literally. Nobody got to read it and I mean nobody. The reps had I think 48. Hours to read sum 3700 pages, only after it passed did we the people get to see. It. Then the. 2012 election came, ths could have been prevented but it turned out not to be. We relected HIM again and its business as usual.

[Paulination]

Paul. In 2009 this was rolled out, no forced upon us literally. Nobody got to read it and I mean nobody. The reps had I think 48. Hours to read sum 3700 pages, only after it passed did we the people get to see. It. Then the. 2012 election came, ths could have been prevented but it turned out not to be. We relected HIM again and its business as usual.

Your preaching to the choir on Obamacare. The whole process of getting it in sucked from beginning to end. When he stood up in front of the American people before any of this was policy and spoke the thre lies (keep your plan, keep you doctor, save money) I knew it wouldn't work. I have been in this business for 13 years and because of that, I knew there was no way and spoke repeatedly about it on here. BUT, most people don't have the background to know that it won't work.

Most people unfortunately have been jaded to the point that they won't believe you and I or any other conservative because we are conservative. Look at Jenivere2011 post a little ways back. She specifically makes my point. Breitbard could say report something that is absolutely true and she wouldn't believe it simply because he is conservative. How do you compete with that? People think that I say what I do because of my political beliefs. Thats why I use statistics, and mathmatics, history etc... in most of my posts because I want someone who disagrees with me to be able to research my point of view independently to see that I am not speaking simply out of blind allegence.

The republicans have a serious PR problem with only themselves to blame. People are only now feeling the effects of Obamacare and if they could have a do over maybe they would but the reality is, at least for now, it is here to stay. My point about Wendy which is where I think you were going is that to her Obama was a safer choice. Conservatives would be better served if instead of saying "I told you so", ask the question "where do we go from here" and "what is our plan for improving this". Independents and swing voters would be much more receptive to that message I believe.

[Wendy A.]

It was a very difficult choice. And I really didn't back Obama 100% at the voting booth. I hated Obamacare, but even more I hated the thought of more power to the radical right. (not a fan of the far left either) I LOVED Mitt Romney for a long time, then it was apparent to me anyway, that he was not allowed to run on his beliefs, but what the radical right wanted. That broke my heart. I truly believe had the man been left alone and was able to do what he is so good at, he would have made one hell of a leader. He would have had my vote.

I live in a radical right red state (Indiana) and here they were ranting that rape babies are gifts from God and crazy shit like that. (No, I don't believe in abortion) Yeah.... I don't see me jumping on that band wagon anytime soon. I'll be so glad when, and I truly believe this WILL happen, things snap back to the center. We need a real conservative in office, someone like Eisenhower.. not ever sure if such a man exists anymore?

I've done a lot in politics, I've been a key member for a campaign, I've spoken to and worked with Senators and Representatives in D.C. I've traveled to D.C. while working on campaigns, and have done interviews on FOX and CNN. I've debated with Senators and can hold my own. After the 2010 elections, I chose not to continue. I can still debate politics and really, when dealing with someone that is far left or right, it's a LOST cause, their minds are closed to free thinking. I feel things are too far left and right for my taste. I prefer to think for myself, and not be told what to think. Anymore it's all or nothing and both parties in my opinion are bat shit crazy.

It's so wonderful to see people like Pauli on here. He's a free thinker and I have so much respect for him!

[SRVFan]

Wolf Blitzer openly admits Obamacare should have been delayed



More: http://www.glennbeck.com/2013/10/10/...-been-delayed/

[rosemom]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...lications.html

According to this, only 51,000 signed up during the first week.

[SRVFan]

Dr. Ben Carson Calls Obamacare ‘Worst Thing Since Slavery’ at Values Voter Summit

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/dr-ben-ca...-voter-summit/

[Bidmor]

Dr. Ben Carson Calls Obamacare ‘Worst Thing Since Slavery’ at Values Voter Summit


http://www.mediaite.com/tv/dr-ben-ca...-voter-summit/

Carson is completely correct in his assessment that Obamacare is not about health care, but control of the masses.

I don't believe that healthcare.gov site failure is due to incompetence, rather I believe its function is gathering more info on citizens i.e. linking names to IP addresses, thus increasing the amount of personal data for the federal government.

Think of as an IRS, DHS, or TSA agent constantly sitting next to you, observing every site you visit and every email you send/receive.

[Paulination]

A report from Forbes says that it is the consensus of IT people they have spoken with that the Obamacare website keeps crashing because of the logjam of information that occurs from making you enter your personal information BEFORE you can look at plans.

The government sends your information out to several different places to verify it. This transmittal means that if anything goes wrong, slows down, stops etc..along the way it creates a virtual traffic jam that crashes the site. The rub is that the IT people who put together this system must have know this would happen.

So why do it this way? The government was afraid that people who don't qualify for subsidies would be scared away by the true cost of these plans so the government does not want you to have the ability to see the cost before capturing your info (this is what the article says). A little bit on the conspiracy side but it still makes sense. All other quoting engines I have ever seen allow you to input only what is necessary to show you the cost. Once you choose, then you apply. I have never seen it the other way around and it makes no sense to do it that way.

The ugly truth that alot of people are learning is that unless you qualify for subsidies, this is not cheaper. Quite the contrary it can be startlingly more expensive. Most people believed Obama when he said it would be more affordable, and it is, for those with low income paid for in part by those who do not qualify for subsidies.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...ns-true-costs/

[SRVFan]

A report from Forbes says that it is the consensus of IT people they have spoken with that the Obamacare website keeps crashing because of the logjam of information that occurs from making you enter your personal information BEFORE you can look at plans.

The government sends your information out to several different places to verify it. This transmittal means that if anything goes wrong, slows down, stops etc..along the way it creates a virtual traffic jam that crashes the site. The rub is that the IT people who put together this system must have know this would happen.

So why do it this way? The government was afraid that people who don't qualify for subsidies would be scared away by the true cost of these plans so the government does not want you to have the ability to see the cost before capturing your info (this is what the article says). A little bit on the conspiracy side but it still makes sense. All other quoting engines I have ever seen allow you to input only what is necessary to show you the cost. Once you choose, then you apply. I have never seen it the other way around and it makes no sense to do it that way.

The ugly truth that alot of people are learning is that unless you qualify for subsidies, this is not cheaper. Quite the contrary it can be startlingly more expensive. Most people believed Obama when he said it would be more affordable, and it is, for those with low income paid for in part by those who do not qualify for subsidies.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapoth...ns-true-costs/

Also:

You have no reasonable expectation of privacy regarding any communication or data transiting or stored on this information system. At any time, and for any lawful Government purpose, the government may monitor, intercept, and search and seize any communication or data transiting or stored on this information system. Any communication or data transiting or stored on this information system may be disclosed or used for any lawful Government purpose.

http://youngcons.com/obamacare-websi...ation-or-data/

[SRVFan]

New York Times Reveals How The Obamacare Website Ended Up As Such A Catastrophe

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/new-y...#ixzz2hkYNWMj9

[cleanskull]

Lots more people have studies this, so my question is how much does this affect people on SSDI?

[Paulination]

So the White House rejects another GOP proposal on the basis that it is one that reflects the will of a minority group of teapartiers. So what were these radical, right wing assholes asking for?

1) Tighter income reporting for those recieving subsidies.
2) Postponement of a tax on medical equipment
3) Postponement of the $63 per person tax that large employers have to pay

Boy, how extremely radical can you get (obvious sarcasm)

I have a question though and (I know the answer but I want to hear what others think first), why would the administration delay the requirement of income verification to qualify for a subsidy?

[shipmatekate]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politi...,4542564.story


Just keep on keeping on

The GOP is gutting itself

[Paulination]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/politi...,4542564.story


Just keep on keeping on

The GOP is gutting itself

This says more about the understanding of what is going on by the average voter then it does about the GOP. Wait until more people are hit but the increase in their healthcare because of Obamacare, you will see the public opinion change quickly. Ironically it will be just in time for the the mid year elections as alot of group plans will renew by then. I've seen the numbers and they are ugly.

The GOP is more concerned at the moment in slowing this down then they are in public relations.

[shipmatekate]

This says more about the understanding of what is going on by the average voter then it does about the GOP. Wait until more people are hit but the increase in their healthcare because of Obamacare, you will see the public opinion change quickly. Ironically it will be just in time for the the mid year elections as alot of group plans will renew by then. I've seen the numbers and they are ugly.

The GOP is more concerned at the moment in slowing this down then they are in public relations.

The GOP wants to shut down the government
That's all the Tea Party assholes are after

In fact they PROMISED it

Spin it any way you like, it's the GOP at fault here

[Paulination]

The GOP wants to shut down the government
That's all the Tea Party assholes are after

In fact they PROMISED it

Spin it any way you like, it's the GOP at fault here

I'm not spinning anything, I'm telling you what I think and why I think it. So now it is your turn (and we can do this one step at a time). Why would the "tea party assholes" want to shut down the government for the sake of shutting it down?

What in your mind is there to gain? People don't do things for no reason or simply because they are "assholes".

[Paulination]

3) Postponement of the $63 per person tax that large employers have to pay

I mispoke. This is a democrat proposal, not republican. I misread the story and since this seems like a republican thing to do, it made sense in my mind. Sorry for the misinformation.

[Wendy A.]

The GOP wants to shut down the government
That's all the Tea Party assholes are after

In fact they PROMISED it

Spin it any way you like, it's the GOP at fault here

Not really, the Dems are basically in charge and doing their best to make the republicans look bad. Gotta take a look at the BIG PICTURE.. and then I still wonder if either party truly has this nation's best interest at heart. All I really see is a bunch of he said she said bullshit.. blaming the other party and trying to make each other look bad, with the 2014 elections their main concern. I think at the end of the day Reid and McConnell will tire of it, kinda looks like they already have and will work together to come up with a solution. They've done it before, and they will do it again.
And, I think people realized they got more than they bargained for by electing members of the Tea Party into office back in 2010. Some didn't get re-elected in 2012, Allen West is a good example. I think people are tiring of the extreme left and right.. hopefully sanity will prevail in 2014 and things will start to snap back to the center.

[Paulination]

Gotta take a look at the BIG PICTURE.. and then I still wonder if either party truly has this nation's best interest at heart.

Exactly. The reason we are fucked right now is not a republican or democrat issue, it is a political one in general. Each party wants the power and each party rejects the others good ideas and embrace their own bad ideas simply along political lines.


A perfect example is the democrats wanting to postpone the $63 tax on large group employees and the republicans rejecting that. Why would they do that? Because it is the democrats proposing it. Why wouldn't the democrats allow for the postponement of the individual mandate in light of Obama postponing the large group mandate? Because it is the republicans who propose it.


Biggest group of babies ever.

[Wendy A.]

Exactly. The reason we are fucked right now is not a republican or democrat issue, it is a political one in general. Each party wants the power and each party rejects the others good ideas and embrace their own bad ideas simply along political lines.


A perfect example is the democrats wanting to postpone the $63 tax on large group employees and the republicans rejecting that. Why would they do that? Because it is the democrats proposing it. Why wouldn't the democrats allow for the postponement of the individual mandate in light of Obama postponing the large group mandate? Because it is the republicans who propose it.


Biggest group of babies ever.

***DING DING DING! We have a winner! lol you hit the nail on the head! I've seen three year old's that get along better than congress. Too bad they're so self absorbed that they can't see that we all see this. Hell, maybe they do and don't care? I wish there was a way to stop the dumb shit.

[Paulination]

[QUOTE=Wendy A.;1412395Too bad they're so self absorbed that they can't see that we all see this. [/QUOTE]

They do it because most people don't have a clue. I have it in my own household. My wife gets up in the morning, helps get the kids ready for school, goes back to sleep for awhile, works out, has lunch while watching some mindless entertainment she DVR'd the night before, picks up the kids, does homework and then waits for me to get home. No where in there is she thinking about politics, or Washington or anything. She hates Obama more for his mid afternoon press conferances that fuck up her soap opera then anything he does politically.

I'm not criticisizing, just saying that there are more people like her, then there are like you. She's blissfully clueless because I fortunately have my eye on the ball. Most people don't care about the ball.

[SRVFan]

The GOP wants to shut down the government
That's all the Tea Party assholes are after

In fact they PROMISED it

Spin it any way you like, it's the GOP at fault here

Who awarded the contracts for Government Shutdown signs MONTHS in advance of the shutdown?

http://directorblue.blogspot.com/201...rated-and.html

[SRVFan]

"You’re not exempt from math if you’re a Republican, and you’re not exempt from math if you’re a Democrat."