Beverly Hills Supper Club Fire

[Alanwench]

In case anyone is interested I found this website that has a lot of official reports regarding the Beverly Hills...

http://fefdic.ning.com/group/whatact...age=1#comments

Wow! Thanks for all of the detailed info. I never quite bought into the mob sabotage thing and I agree that the entire building was a disaster waiting to happen.

[seberly]

Wow! Thanks for all of the detailed info. I never quite bought into the mob sabotage thing and I agree that the entire building was a disaster waiting to happen.

I've been fasinated reading these the past couple of days. Some of the files are more interesting than the others. Especially the depositions with some of the former employees. Some things to note is how many patrons and employees noticed how unusually hot it was in the club, as well as, many noticed odors in the club well before the fire.

Post your thoughts after you've read through some of them.

[Alanwench]

I've been fasinated reading these the past couple of days. Some of the files are more interesting than the others. Especially the depositions with some of the former employees. Some things to note is how many patrons and employees noticed how unusually hot it was in the club, as well as, many noticed odors in the club well before the fire.

Post your thoughts after you've read through some of them.

No more than I've read, (three reports) I can't help but think that the patrons smelled the wiring and the interiors of the walls in the Zebra Room burning.
A woman in one of the items I posted recalled in a newspaper interview that she burned her hands on a faucet of the Ladies' Room which was adjacent to the Zebra Room.
One silly question, since I'm not a computer whiz? Is there any way to display the reports that are scanned in sideways? There has to be a better way to read than getting a stiff neck from craning my neck sideways.

[seberly]

Yes. If it's a .pdf file which most of them are place your cursor in the middle of the page and right click, you'll get an option that says "rotate clockwise" just keep doing that until you can read the page. Word documents will have an option as well to rotate the page, but I'm not sure where it's located.

I find it interesting how politically incorrect we were back then several times I've read in people's statements "there was a group of black people" or "there was a group of colored people."

There's an interesting deposition on page 1. It's titled BH Early Fire Witness, and it's page 19 of that document. The person's last name is Brock, they were part of they staff. He/She talked about Walter Bailey and had some interesting comments about him, said he was lazy and that mgt didn't like him that much.

[Alanwench]

Yes. If it's a .pdf file which most of them are place your cursor in the middle of the page and right click, you'll get an option that says "rotate clockwise" just keep doing that until you can read the page. Word documents will have an option as well to rotate the page, but I'm not sure where it's located.

I find it interesting how politically incorrect we were back then several times I've read in people's statements "there was a group of black people" or "there was a group of colored people."

There's an interesting deposition on page 1. It's titled BH Early Fire Witness, and it's page 19 of that document. The person's last name is Brock, they were part of they staff. He/She talked about Walter Bailey and had some interesting comments about him, said he was lazy and that mgt didn't like him that much.

Thanks. Wow! I need to read that comment about Walter Bailey. That's surprising.

[RogerV]

I'm going on memory here, but wasn't one of the problems the fact that the Fire Marshall in Kentucky had no legal authority to enforce fire regulations?

[seberly]

I'm going on memory here, but wasn't one of the problems the fact that the Fire Marshall in Kentucky had no legal authority to enforce fire regulations?

This is according to Wikipedia...

Whitt's investigation also revealed that whenever the local Fire Marshal arrived to inspect the club, he sat at the bar where the owners plied him with free drinks and concert tickets instead of citing the many deadly code violations.
Despite their efforts to avoid a proper inspection by the Fire Marshal, the club's owners claimed to be unaware that it did not meet fire code requirements. For example, the staircases were required to be enclosed with fire doors on each level of the building. Important commonwealth and federal lawmakers visited the club from time to time and were also unaware or willfully ignorant of the fire safety lapses throughout the building.

Wikipedia also has...

Investigative reporter Rich Whitt's weekly dispatches for the Louisville Courier-Journal uncovered the negligence and corruption that greatly contributed to the fire and deaths. Without the investigation and the publicity his dispatches generated, it is likely that many of the egregious code violations and acts of negligence would have remained concealed by the owner and complicit local officials.

I posted a link on page 2 of this thread where several official documents can be found. From what I read in one of the documents that would support the above Wikipedia quote. Problems were documented, never seemed to be fully corrected and they were given a license to operate anyways. I'll have to see if I can find that again and I can post the details.

[Alanwench]

Yes. If it's a .pdf file which most of them are place your cursor in the middle of the page and right click, you'll get an option that says "rotate clockwise" just keep doing that until you can read the page. Word documents will have an option as well to rotate the page, but I'm not sure where it's located.

I find it interesting how politically incorrect we were back then several times I've read in people's statements "there was a group of black people" or "there was a group of colored people."

There's an interesting deposition on page 1. It's titled BH Early Fire Witness, and it's page 19 of that document. The person's last name is Brock, they were part of they staff. He/She talked about Walter Bailey and had some interesting comments about him, said he was lazy and that mgt didn't like him that much.

These files are some interesting reading, thanks so much for posting them. Whether or not Bailey was lazy, he certainly performed well when it counted.
So far, what I've read still supports the faulty wiring theory instead of the mob hit.

[SheBoss]

There is a white paper on line from FMEA that actually talks about the chances of a woman getting out of a crowd like that in 1977 and now. Their chances then were poor because of the tendancy for women to defer to others in exiting and their general lack of physical conditioning. Now women would have a muc better chance because they would not "wait for rescue" and are better able physically to compete while exiting the building. They point to the gender mix for those who died and those who escaped the Station Fire in Rhode Island. There was much more gender parity in the statistics. I found that facinating.

I would think the woman's chances would also be hampered by the fact that she would be wear a long, flowing dress and high heels while the men would be in pants and flat shoes. Today's woman would still be in the heels, but would probably be wear a dressy pant suit. In a panic, I don't know that I would have the prescence of mind to kick the shoes off and rip the dress to "runnable" proportions. Also, if they took the time to do that, would they have missed the opportunity to get out?

[SheBoss]

You're welcome. My name actually isn't Alan, I'm a female Alan Rickman fan.

I'm just shortening your user name. I don't mean any offense -

[Miho]

I would think the woman's chances would also be hampered by the fact that she would be wear a long, flowing dress and high heels while the men would be in pants and flat shoes. Today's woman would still be in the heels, but would probably be wear a dressy pant suit. In a panic, I don't know that I would have the prescence of mind to kick the shoes off and rip the dress to "runnable" proportions. Also, if they took the time to do that, would they have missed the opportunity to get out?

Reason 154 why I don't wear high heels ever! I am a firm believer that in an emergency the difference between those who live and those who die are shoes.

Station nightclub: Some in the crush at the door lived because as they were being pulled their sneakers popped off and they were freed. Wouldn't have happened with huge zip up boots or something.

9-11- Women trying to climb door 100+ stairs covered in water in heels. Those who managed to get them off got the pleasure of walking to Brooklyn in bare feet.

Falling in water - car going into water- Shoes on feet = swimming is a LOT harder (almost impossible). They need to be off ASAP if you want to live.

[STsFirstmate]

I would think the woman's chances would also be hampered by the fact that she would be wear a long, flowing dress and high heels while the men would be in pants and flat shoes. Today's woman would still be in the heels, but would probably be wear a dressy pant suit. In a panic, I don't know that I would have the prescence of mind to kick the shoes off and rip the dress to "runnable" proportions. Also, if they took the time to do that, would they have missed the opportunity to get out?

It is interesting in that 12 page white paper it never mentioned clothing but you are absolutely right. It focused on upper body strength to climb out windows and over a pile of furniture or bodies and it talked about women not competing to get down a hallway or out of a door.
I wear flats and pants suits and trust me I would not need urging to get out of a building that was on fire. I am totally terrified of fire.
I did a coast guard drill where they roll a boat and you have to get oriented in the dark and swim out. It was the hardest thing I have ever done. I thought I had memorized the entire interior but I was totally turned around in the dark.
Regards,
Mary

[SheBoss]

I did a coast guard drill where they roll a boat and you have to get oriented in the dark and swim out. It was the hardest thing I have ever done. I thought I had memorized the entire interior but I was totally turned around in the dark.

I had to do something similar when I got certified for scuba diving (advanced class). It really humbles you, doesn't it! You believe you'll act one way because you know so much, but boy - I really had to fight the panic before I could even get my wits about me.

[STsFirstmate]

I had to do something similar when I got certified for scuba diving (advanced class). It really humbles you, doesn't it! You believe you'll act one way because you know so much, but boy - I really had to fight the panic before I could even get my wits about me.

Amen I definately peed in their pool! I was terrified!
regards,
Mary

[Alanwench]

I'm just shortening your user name. I don't mean any offense -

No offense whatsoever.

[MIZIZVOGUE]

I remember that day very well! I lived in Cincinnati then, (still do) and I was 15 years old and a patient at Cincinnati Children's Hospital Medical Center. There was a flurry of rushing doctors and nurses that evening up on my floor. What I didn't know was that the hospital was being put in "Crisis Mode". From what I remember of the fire, the youngest fatality was a 14 year old. I guess the hospital was expecting many more patients, even if they weren't children. At the time of the report of the fire, all area hospitals probably didn't have any idea of an estimate of how many patients would be coming in through their doors. I'm sure that each and every one were on "stand-by", so to speak. What is amazing is that I knew a man and his wife that were going to the Beverly Hills that evening. I was freaking out, not knowing if they made it out alive or not. The next day, a Sunday, this man came walking down the hospital corridor to visit me. When I saw a glimpse of him, I went running up to him and hugged him! He told me that he and his wife left the supper club about an hour before the fire broke out. The reason: He didn't like John Davidson!

[Dane]

One of my uncles was a busboy there, but was off sick that week. At least that's the family lore - I'll have to check on that. Dad said that they could see the smoke from their house, and that I do not doubt; they didn't live far from the site.

One of my Flickr buddies has a set of photos she's taken at the site (and oh how I envy her); the link is here. Please be sure to ask her first if you'd like to blog or otherwise use them somewhere, though, her photos are "all rights reserved." (Not that I think my fellow Death Hags are anything but wonderfully-mannered!)

[Miho]

One of my uncles was a busboy there, but was off sick that week. At least that's the family lore - I'll have to check on that. Dad said that they could see the smoke from their house, and that I do not doubt; they didn't live far from the site.

One of my Flickr buddies has a set of photos she's taken at the site (and oh how I envy her); the link is here. Please be sure to ask her first if you'd like to blog or otherwise use them somewhere, though, her photos are "all rights reserved." (Not that I think my fellow Death Hags are anything but wonderfully-mannered!)

Holy cow great pics!!

[STsFirstmate]

Great pics indeed! I remember clearly the long winding drive up to the club. That was part of the cache. For Cincinnati it was very LA or Vegas by our way of thinking at the time.
Regards,
Mary

[Miho]

Great pics indeed! I remember clearly the long winding drive up to the club. That was part of the cache. For Cincinnati it was very LA or Vegas by our way of thinking at the time.
Regards,
Mary

I wish I could have seen this place I really do. It sounds soo beautiful.

[STsFirstmate]

I wish I could have seen this place I really do. It sounds soo beautiful.

Everybody wanted their wedding reception there. I went to a company Christmas part that GE Evendale had there. I was dating a guy who worked there. Thats how long ago it was, I was still giving men a shot LOL.
I thought it was the most sophisticated place I had ever been. Valet parking and finger bowls with dinner.That was in 74.
Regards,
Mary

[Miho]

Everybody wanted their wedding reception there. I went to a company Christmas part that GE Evendale had there. I was dating a guy who worked there. Thats how long ago it was, I was still giving men a shot LOL.
I thought it was the most sophisticated place I had ever been. Valet parking and finger bowls with dinner.That was in 74.
Regards,
Mary

Finger bowls? I don't think I know what those are.

[STsFirstmate]

Finger bowls? I don't think I know what those are.

little bowls with chilled water and a slice of lemon floating to clean your fingers as you ate.
The last time I saw them was in a very traditional French bistro in Luxemborg.
Regards,
Mary

[Alanwench]

Everybody wanted their wedding reception there. I went to a company Christmas part that GE Evendale had there. I was dating a guy who worked there. Thats how long ago it was, I was still giving men a shot LOL.
I thought it was the most sophisticated place I had ever been. Valet parking and finger bowls with dinner.That was in 74.
Regards,
Mary

Mary, do you remember working with Jim (James) Elliott at GE? That's my cousin who didn't attend the John Davidson show with his wife due to the death of his grandfather, my great-grandfather.

[MIZIZVOGUE]

Great pics indeed! I remember clearly the long winding drive up to the club. That was part of the cache. For Cincinnati it was very LA or Vegas by our way of thinking at the time.
Regards,
Mary

That long drive up there is a huge problem, then and now. Firetrucks had a hell of a time getting up there. Developer's interested in that area up there, can't figure out how to change going up the hill without it being too costly. Personally, I'd like The Beverly Hills Supper Club to be rebuilt exactly as it was, only with ALL firecodes in place ect...

[seberly]

I live in the Cincinnati area if anyone would like to get together and make a trek to the site let me know. I'd love to take my own pictures.. If interested send me a pm.

[STsFirstmate]

Mary, do you remember working with Jim (James) Elliott at GE? That's my cousin who didn't attend the John Davidson show with his wife due to the death of his grandfather, my great-grandfather.

I am sorry that name doesn't ring a bell but I may have met him. I worked mainly with a man named John Wood. He worked in the engine test facility. I worked for a company that developed test sensors to monitor heat, velosity and pitch distortion for the engine blades during testing. John was the guy that used the air cannons to fire the chicken carcasses into a running engine. Our sensors gave him instant data on the impact.
As you know that GE facility is so huge they have their own fire department on site.
In the mid 70s right after I graduated from UC I did spend a lot of time there.
Regards,
Mary

[STsFirstmate]

I live in the Cincinnati area if anyone would like to get together and make a trek to the site let me know. I'd love to take my own pictures.. If interested send me a pm.

If I was still there I would definately be up for it. But only if we could go to Gold Star or Skyline for a four way with onions and two cheese coneys. I miss that more than anything except maybe Graeters Ice cream and fried goetta for breakfast.
Regards,
Mary
Regards,
Mary

[Alanwench]

I am sorry that name doesn't ring a bell but I may have met him. I worked mainly with a man named John Wood. He worked in the engine test facility. I worked for a company that developed test sensors to monitor heat, velosity and pitch distortion for the engine blades during testing. John was the guy that used the air cannons to fire the chicken carcasses into a running engine. Our sensors gave him instant data on the impact.
As you know that GE facility is so huge they have their own fire department on site.
In the mid 70s right after I graduated from UC I did spend a lot of time there.
Regards,
Mary

Thanks anyway, Mary. LOL about the chickens in the air cannons.

[seberly]

If I was still there I would definately be up for it. But only if we could go to Gold Star or Skyline for a four way with onions and two cheese coneys. I miss that more than anything except maybe Graeters Ice cream and fried goetta for breakfast.
Regards,
Mary
Regards,
Mary

that would definetely be doable love Gold Star, and nothing like a goetta omellette..

[Alanwench]

that would definetely be doable love Gold Star, and nothing like a goetta omellette..

I love Gold Star and Graeter's. Since I live in Athens, Ohio, the road trip is one I'd love to make, preferably after the holidays.

[Dane]

I love Gold Star and Graeter's. Since I live in Athens, Ohio, the road trip is one I'd love to make, preferably after the holidays.

Count me in. I'm just up the road a ways.

[navallint]

New photos and video released today:
http://www.lex18.com/video/

More:
http://www.lex18.com/news/survivors-...aused-by-arson

[Alanwench]

Wow! If these photos are authentic this certainly supports the claims made last year and the persistent rumors of arson.

[Alanwench]

Friday will mark the 33rd anniversary of this fire. Firefighters remove a body from the debris.

[Alanwench]

[Alanwench]

This fireplug was close to the entrance of the club.

[Alanwench]

[Alanwench]

[Alanwench]

A priest gives last rites to victims of the fire. The woman to the far left, with her pants partially down, was one of the pregnant women who died in the blaze.

[Alanwench]

Charred earth and fragments of brick marks the site of one of the hallways.

[Alanwench]

[Alanwench]

Someone visited the site of the fire and put signs up to indicate where certain areas of the club used to be. There are also scraps of the building included in this set.

[Alanwench]

Mr. Dammert was an employee of the club.

[Alanwench]

[Alanwench]

This is a makeshift memorial/tribute to all Beverly Hills employees who didn't survive the fire. A tattered apron and damaged kitchen goods make up this memorial.

[Miho]

Thanks Alan! I saw a video awhile ago with people going up to the site. It is amazing how much stuff is still up there.

[Miho]

Neat page

http://www.enquirer.com/beverlyhills/index2.html

[ginasaurusrex]

I'm curious, was there an insurance payout to the owners after the fire? I was just thinking that with the 2 witness statements, and the owner denying that such a conversation ever occurred that perhaps it was the owners who set into motion the events that started the fire. This is purely a guess on my part. I guess we'll never know.

[Alanwench]

Thanks Alan! I saw a video awhile ago with people going up to the site. It is amazing how much stuff is still up there.

YW, Miho. I would like to explore the site with a group. I am terrified of snakes and that area looks extremely overgrown, so, wuss that I am, I want someone to walk ahead or with me.