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Thread: Emmett Till

  1. #51
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    This was racism at its worst. OMG how could anyone do this to a child? The bloke who did this got away with it? Christ how! Hate oppression of any kind - racism, homophobia etc, etc.

  2. #52
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    I'd never heard of this story until reading the open casket thread, either. I can't believe I'd not heard of it and am glad I have now.

    Unbelieveable what people will do to one another. Someone earlier mentioned this was history... I wish it was, but am afraid that this kind of hatred still exists. Makes me sick.

    The mother amazes me. I'm not sure I could be so strong in dealing with what she had to... I'd have probably laid down and died.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotmama View Post
    emmett"]http://www.emmetttillmurder.com/
    [/url] emmett also had a picture of heddy lamarr in his wallet and she was just his favorite actress.[/quote]
    Yes he did the picture actually came with the wallet so he kept it...some say he was bragging about having a white girlfriend and showing her picture in his wallet....how stupid did they think people were? Sadly because of the racism of the time they got away with it, but as Mrs. Mobley said they suffered in their lives.....she also said God told her I have taken one, but will give you thousands...she went on to become a teacher and started the Emmett Till Players and was a church mother so she litlerally touched the lives of thousands of children.

    motherogod ....yes she was an amazing woman she has truly inspired me throughout my life

  4. #54
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    Biggots are so stupid...

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yvonne View Post
    This was racism at its worst. OMG how could anyone do this to a child? The bloke who did this got away with it? Christ how! Hate oppression of any kind - racism, homophobia etc, etc.
    Yes, and sadly, it is alive and "well" wherever you might go; among people of all races.

    I grew up in MS in the 60's, and I remember seeing signs posted above business entrances that said "Whites Only" and two outdoor water fountains; one labeled "White" and the other "Colored"; as if you can't catch cooties from other white folks.

    I can't speak from the non-white point of view; but most people seem much more tolerant today. Of course; there will always be people who stupidly hate anyone who is unlike themselves; be it skin tone; religion; etc.

    The "enlightened" souls back in the day preached a policy of "seperate but equal". Trouble is; seperate is never equal; as some people are more "equal" than others.

    This world would be a perfect place; if not for us humans; with our big brains; our jealousies and ulterior motives.

    What was God thinking, and why hasn't he\she corrected this problem?

  6. #56
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    I had never even heard of this boy until this thread was posted...I guess I live pretty shelterd life. I grew up in the "country" and I really only know what I read about in history class...now that I'm a "grown up" and know all the truly heinous shit that goes on out there...I'm disgusted! Thanks so much for this thread...I feel for this child's mother, as a mom, as a friend and as a PERSON. Race is not important and it truly sickens me that the color of a persons skin should make any one person better than the next. Every time I read about a racist crime I really do wonder where the heck this came from...who decided that "white" people were superior? I could never have lived back then...I'd have been killed! To me a person is person, no matter what creed, color or whatever! My daughter is a civil war history buff (yup, she's only 14!) and the stories that she reads and tells me about absolutely break my heart! I like to think that we've a come a long way, but ya know what? We really haven't!!!! Shit like this still goes on...every day and all around us. I don't get it...I just really don't get it. I'm just, really, I don't even know what to say...my heart aches for this poor family. This will keep me awake all damn night and it pains me that there isn't anything I can do about it.

    Long winded I know, but I just can't fathom the hatred that was involved in a useless crime such as this. It literally hurts my heart to imagine the pain this family has one through. Whenever I think that we are making some kind of progress, something else pops up that pushes us back to the dark ages!

  7. #57
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    When I was almost 7 we moved to Nashville from a small town where the black folks still lived very seperately from white folks...our new neighbors were a sweet elderly black couple and her mother who seemed ancient to me ...she was in her mid 90's.. and lived to be 101!! We called her Mrs Davis and her daughter and her husband were Mrs Mary and Mr Fred...anyway Mrs Davis used to teach me about coooking, gardening and the old days...I spent alot of my time over at their home and they treated me like their own..I remember they had an original copy of the Jet magazine with the Emmett Till pictures and they taught me about it as the years passed.....They have all long since passed away, but I have never forgotten them and the lessons they taught me....


    This is an excerpt from an interview done with Mrs. Mobley in 1996....
    DSA: Considering how much racism–including lynching–had been tolerated in the South, and then to have the killers ostracized for what they did, do you see that as the turning point then, as far as people saying, “enough is enough!”?
    MTM: Well, I think the fact that I was able to get Emmett’s body out of Mississippi, and then to put that body on display for five days, and people could walk by and see what racism had really generated. I mean, to hear that they hung people on a tree, that they cut their fingers off and passed them out for souvenirs, to hear that, to read it, that is one thing. But to actually see it with your eyes, that is a different thing. And 600,000 people, which is a conservative estimate, walked by and looked at Emmett. People from all over the world came and attended the trail and they also passed by and looked at Emmett. It was something that was unprecedented, and people really didn’t know that things this horrible could take place, and the fact that it happened to a child, that make all the difference in the world.
    DSA: Was that hard for you to have him on display like that?
    MTM: It was very hard.
    DSA: Were you thinking of the benefits to society, and what this would do for America?
    MTM: I didn’t even think of the benefits to society. The main thing I thought about was: “Let the world see what has happened, because there is no way I could describe this.” And I needed somebody to help me tell what it was like.

    The picture is one of Emmett and Mrs Mobley taken the Christmas before his murder, it was one of the pictures taped to his open casket
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by RoRo; 08-06-2008 at 06:43 PM.

  8. #58
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    I found a documentary tonight at work about Emmett. I poured through this thread and the site links in it yesterday for a good long while, and vaguely recalled seeing a movie on the shelf about him...I'd just never picked it up. *which is odd, considering most of the rentals I've gotten from work are documentaries...*

    I rented it tonight, and am looking forward to watching it.

    I find it inspiring to know that this young man's story, having started out so simply, is still getting people's attention and touching lives in such a profound manner...Even after all these years.

    His mother most certainly was a remarkable woman. If only everyone had just a portion of her drive and spirit...Perhaps the world would be a better, more accepting place to live.
    <3 Rest Well, pvezz. <3

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by stacebabe View Post
    I think, sadly, that may always be, but at least there's no more segregation etc.... I cannot believe we lived at a time where someone of a different color had to ride on a different bus, or got hosed going to school. What kind of humans were these?
    No segregation today? Well it depends on how one looks at it. No the days of seperate restrooms, "back of the bus', restaurants that had signs out front saying they serve whites only...while that is all gone now sadly discrimation still exists today.

    A great example of this are nightclubs and bars. I know of at least 3 bars that are still open for business today in West Virginia that still won't allow blacks to enter and a few others that use some sort of ratio ( 1 black for 5 whites ). Of course they don't advertise THAT but its common knowledge they still do this practice. And every once in awhile there is a story about how some place gave blacks less than good service but not for whites..like what happened at a Denny's restaurant some years back.

    And its not just a person's color that results in discrimation as well. Sometimes it could be age or even the overall looks of that person too.
    Denver has a nightclub I have been told that not only has a "policy" where only those under 30 are allowed to enter but only the "good looking" can enter too. Kinda like what the famous Studio 54 did back in the 70's. So if you are a 35 year old or a 25 year old who is overweight..well in their eyes..too bad !!

    None of this should be allowed..but it still exist.

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  11. #61
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    I have 2 disclaimers I want to post before I type this message that is sure to get each and every one of you po'ed at me.

    First - I would never condone what happened to Emmett Till. Those 2 men were wrong and there's absolutely no way around it.

    Second - I am not a a racist in any way. I'm not saying any of this because this was my state. This would be my opinion if this happened in California.

    I'll begin by saying that I truly feel for his mother. No one deserves to lose a child, let alone one that died in that way. However, she knew the racial tensions in MS. She had lived here. She had family here. There was no way humanly possible she didn't know the possibilities when she sent her son down here. She let him go anyway. She let a 14 year old (and we all know how teenagers and their mouths are) boy come down to a place hundreds of miles away. A place that he's never been. An environment that nothing in Chicago could have ever prepared him for. A place where a black person can "disappear" just for looking at a white person. In her words above (MTM: I didn’t even think of the benefits to society. The main thing I thought about was: “Let the world see what has happened, because there is no way I could describe this.” And I needed somebody to help me tell what it was like.) There was also no way she could describe how terrible things were down here either. She should have thought of that before sending her son down here. Folks, that's the exact same thing as letting your child go play on the freeway and then being shocked when the kid gets hit by a bus. Yes, she's courageous. Yes, she's strong. And, yes, she made one hell of a stupid decision that ultimately got her kid killed. Yes, I feel empathy for her, but no more than she deserves.

    Again, I'll stop and say that I IN NO WAY condone what these men did. And that child is dead regardless of how it happened. But I also have to think - did those men do all that damage? The kid was in the Tallahatchie (and I know what all is in that river) for 2-3 days. I have to wonder how much of that "damage" the fish and turtles did before he was pulled up. Again, dead is dead. But to me, it makes it sound so much more heinous when people assume the men did all that damage.

    Lastly, I don't know about the rest of the country or world, but down here, you can still get your a*s kicked for whistling at someone else's husband/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend. And judging by everything I see on TV, it's not just down here where that happens.

    Let the flaming begin. I'm used to it...
    For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39

  12. #62
    This case has always astounded me. I'm going to read and reread everything I can...this thread has got me thinking on hate crimes.
    Suzie

  13. #63
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    [quote=SheBoss;365991]I have 2 disclaimers I want to post before I type this message that is sure to get each and every one of you po'ed at me.

    First - I would never condone what happened to Emmett Till. Those 2 men were wrong and there's absolutely no way around it.

    Second - I am not a a racist in any way. I'm not saying any of this because this was my state. This would be my opinion if this happened in California.

    I'll begin by saying that I truly feel for his mother. No one deserves to lose a child, let alone one that died in that way. However, she knew the racial tensions in MS. She had lived here. She had family here. There was no way humanly possible she didn't know the possibilities when she sent her son down here. She let him go anyway. She let a 14 year old (and we all know how teenagers and their mouths are) boy come down to a place hundreds of miles away. A place that he's never been. An environment that nothing in Chicago could have ever prepared him for. A place where a black person can "disappear" just for looking at a white person. In her words above (MTM: I didn’t even think of the benefits to society. The main thing I thought about was: “Let the world see what has happened, because there is no way I could describe this.” And I needed somebody to help me tell what it was like.) There was also no way she could describe how terrible things were down here either. She should have thought of that before sending her son down here. Folks, that's the exact same thing as letting your child go play on the freeway and then being shocked when the kid gets hit by a bus.
    *************************************************
    No it isn't, she sent him to relatives where she assumed he would be looked after. Why are you blaming her?
    **************************************************

    Yes, she's courageous. Yes, she's strong. And, yes, she made one hell of a stupid decision that ultimately got her kid killed.
    **********************************************
    No. pig ignorant white bigots killed her son, she had nothing to do with it
    ***************************************************

    Yes, I feel empathy for her, but no more than she deserves.
    ************************************************
    Obviously you feel nothing for her

    ***************************************************
    Again, I'll stop and say that I IN NO WAY condone what these men did. And that child is dead regardless of how it happened. But I also have to think - did those men do all that damage? The kid was in the Tallahatchie (and I know what all is in that river) for 2-3 days. I have to wonder how much of that "damage" the fish and turtles did before he was pulled up. Again, dead is dead. But to me, it makes it sound so much more heinous when people assume the men did all that damage.
    ***************************************************

    Does it matter? They tortured and killed him, so the "damage" done to this 14 year old was probably diminished by the water damge.
    Isn't the fact of torture and murder bad enough? Why try and blame the victim or his family?
    Doesn't this outrage and sicken you?

  14. #64
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    Is Emmett Till's autopsy report on here?

  15. #65
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    Can anyone ever tell me, or anyone else, why hatred exist ?
    Don't get me wrong, I understand some of the standards, the hatred of color, sexual orientation,riches...
    And I use the word "hate " Often (I hate okra...I hate Victor Newman...)
    But, I would really like to ask a racist person why they hate somone they know nothing about .
    (AS long as I have someone there to get me the fuck out of the neighborhood safe)
    Like Rosewood:
    They did a documentary about that whole thing, and went back to the land. The reporters asked the people their did they know the story, and a few of them said yes. The reporter told them that legally, the decendents could come back, and claim their land
    "If a N***r steps on my property, I'l blow his head off..."
    The hatred that sickens me the most, is racial hatred. Hate me for another reason: Like the fact that I think Mrs. Chancellor has had too many facelifts, or I play my Bee Gees CDs too loud...

  16. #66
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    I am glad I came across this thread tonight. After what happened at my job earlier this week, I too wonder why racism still exists. I was in a meeting at my job Monday morning and a co-worker at a remote site made a very ugly racist remark while everyone was present. In my location, me and another lady are the only black people on our team. The other people in the room were white as were the other team members in the remote location. This all happened via conference call. I was shocked and so was my co-worker. Needless to say if we hadn't complained to our supervisor and reported it to HR, it would have been glossed over. So all week I've had a headache from this incident. We finally got an apology via e-mail yesterday afternoon, but I chose not to respond because it was too little too late.
    Indeed, what an ugly world we still live in.

  17. #67
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    Racists exist for the same reason that Child Molesters, Rapists and Murderers exist...The world is FUCKED UP...

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheBoss View Post
    I have 2 disclaimers I want to post before I type this message that is sure to get each and every one of you po'ed at me.

    First - I would never condone what happened to Emmett Till. Those 2 men were wrong and there's absolutely no way around it.

    Second - I am not a a racist in any way. I'm not saying any of this because this was my state. This would be my opinion if this happened in California.

    I'll begin by saying that I truly feel for his mother. No one deserves to lose a child, let alone one that died in that way. However, she knew the racial tensions in MS. She had lived here. She had family here. There was no way humanly possible she didn't know the possibilities when she sent her son down here. She let him go anyway. She let a 14 year old (and we all know how teenagers and their mouths are) boy come down to a place hundreds of miles away. A place that he's never been. An environment that nothing in Chicago could have ever prepared him for. A place where a black person can "disappear" just for looking at a white person. In her words above (MTM: I didn’t even think of the benefits to society. The main thing I thought about was: “Let the world see what has happened, because there is no way I could describe this.” And I needed somebody to help me tell what it was like.) There was also no way she could describe how terrible things were down here either. She should have thought of that before sending her son down here. Folks, that's the exact same thing as letting your child go play on the freeway and then being shocked when the kid gets hit by a bus. Yes, she's courageous. Yes, she's strong. And, yes, she made one hell of a stupid decision that ultimately got her kid killed. Yes, I feel empathy for her, but no more than she deserves.

    Again, I'll stop and say that I IN NO WAY condone what these men did. And that child is dead regardless of how it happened. But I also have to think - did those men do all that damage? The kid was in the Tallahatchie (and I know what all is in that river) for 2-3 days. I have to wonder how much of that "damage" the fish and turtles did before he was pulled up. Again, dead is dead. But to me, it makes it sound so much more heinous when people assume the men did all that damage.

    Lastly, I don't know about the rest of the country or world, but down here, you can still get your a*s kicked for whistling at someone else's husband/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend. And judging by everything I see on TV, it's not just down here where that happens.

    Let the flaming begin. I'm used to it...
    actually his mother had never experienced racism like that. his grandmother did. mrs mobley lived in chicago and felt becuase her life was so different then the lives of other blacks in the south, she thought racism was their problem. yes she says it in the documentary. quick note all blacks born in the early 1900's all the way to at least the 50's, did not all experience racism. at least not alot of people in my family. most blacks got into the workforce and saw racism first hand. every neighborhood was not filled with white racist people. so emmitt had never experienced that type of hatred. his mom and grandmom saw to that. they had a little money. his mother had a good job. their lives were different. when the call was made about emmitt being missing, his grandmother just sat down speechless. his mother looked at her like "help me why are you not doing anything" that was because grandma knew her only grandchild was gone for good. the grandmother was a strong women and was mrs. mobley's backbone but that day she was a broken woman. the grandmother left the south because of the hatred. she expected her family to protect him. i understand why she let him go. she wanted to be a good mother by letting him see his family. so lets not blame her. her heart was broken enough. in the end she was alone. her son passed, her mom passed and finally her husband passed. so i can just imagine what kind of heartache she went through. as her mother lay dying she said "mom don't leave me' now imagine that?? she was another of the many black women who lost their kids, families, to the hatred of white people. she deserves respect.

  19. #69
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    this is one of the worst cases of bigotry in history

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheBoss View Post
    The kid was in the Tallahatchie (and I know what all is in that river) for 2-3 days. I have to wonder how much of that "damage" the fish and turtles did before he was pulled up. Again, dead is dead. But to me, it makes it sound so much more heinous when people assume the men did all that damage.
    The "men" did the damage.

    Yeah, the fish and turtles might have contributed to that young man's unsightly appearance after death; but it was the "men" who put him there; they were responsible for this very heinous crime; and ultimately responsible for "all of that damage."

    You can't blame the fish for feeding; but you have to blame those intolerant abortions of humanity for feeding them the life and body of a young man who had hurt no one.

    I did not know until reading this thread; that Emmett was a stutterer, and had been taught to whistle when he had trouble speaking.

    Unfortunate for him, fodder for racists and those with inferior minds.

    I've said it before, this world would be a perfect place if not for us humans, with our big brains; our ulterior motives and our jealousies.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheBoss View Post
    I have 2 disclaimers I want to post before I type this message that is sure to get each and every one of you po'ed at me.

    First - I would never condone what happened to Emmett Till. Those 2 men were wrong and there's absolutely no way around it.

    Second - I am not a a racist in any way. I'm not saying any of this because this was my state. This would be my opinion if this happened in California.

    I'll begin by saying that I truly feel for his mother. No one deserves to lose a child, let alone one that died in that way. However, she knew the racial tensions in MS. She had lived here. She had family here. There was no way humanly possible she didn't know the possibilities when she sent her son down here. She let him go anyway. She let a 14 year old (and we all know how teenagers and their mouths are) boy come down to a place hundreds of miles away. A place that he's never been. An environment that nothing in Chicago could have ever prepared him for. A place where a black person can "disappear" just for looking at a white person. In her words above (MTM: I didn’t even think of the benefits to society. The main thing I thought about was: “Let the world see what has happened, because there is no way I could describe this.” And I needed somebody to help me tell what it was like.) There was also no way she could describe how terrible things were down here either. She should have thought of that before sending her son down here. Folks, that's the exact same thing as letting your child go play on the freeway and then being shocked when the kid gets hit by a bus. Yes, she's courageous. Yes, she's strong. And, yes, she made one hell of a stupid decision that ultimately got her kid killed. Yes, I feel empathy for her, but no more than she deserves.

    Again, I'll stop and say that I IN NO WAY condone what these men did. And that child is dead regardless of how it happened. But I also have to think - did those men do all that damage? The kid was in the Tallahatchie (and I know what all is in that river) for 2-3 days. I have to wonder how much of that "damage" the fish and turtles did before he was pulled up. Again, dead is dead. But to me, it makes it sound so much more heinous when people assume the men did all that damage.

    Lastly, I don't know about the rest of the country or world, but down here, you can still get your a*s kicked for whistling at someone else's husband/wife/girlfriend/boyfriend. And judging by everything I see on TV, it's not just down here where that happens.

    Let the flaming begin. I'm used to it...
    So it's the mother's fault for sending him down South? The thing is, he should have been able to go anywhere he wanted without someone killing him. Had he been white he would not have been murdered for whistling at someone's wife.

  22. #72
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    I have read lots about this case and there does seem to be some confusion about what happened.

    Emmett's cousin said Emmet did not just whistle at her. he went intot he shop, asked her for a date and grabbed her round the waist. The cousin dragged him away because he knew that was trouble.

    The wife did not immediately go to her husband and tell him. She agreed with her sister in law not to say anything to him because she knew there would be trouble.

    It was a cousin of Emmett who told the husband about what Emmet had done - some say Emmett had angered his southern cousins with his big shot Chicago ways and it was payback.

    The husband confronted the wife who was forced to tell him the truth.

    Emmett's mum knew what the south was like and did have reservations about him going. He didin't want to go on holiday with her, he wanted to go down south. She told him repeatedly, before he went, to keep his eyes downs when it came to white people in the south.

    I suspect she loved him so much that she saw only the sweetness in him but he was, according to friends self confident, outgoing, cocky and loved to be the centre of attention.

    This case has haunted me for years and I would hate anyone to think that I am somehow defending those murderers.

    But I like to look at a story from all angles and to get at the truth.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by cindyt View Post
    So it's the mother's fault for sending him down South? The thing is, he should have been able to go anywhere he wanted without someone killing him. Had he been white he would not have been murdered for whistling at someone's wife.
    of course he should have been able to go anywhere he wanted. l don't think that was the point being made.
    but l wouldn't send my daughter to a place where they stone girls to death for holding hands with the wrong guy, for example.
    l'm not blaming the mom for his death, but it was a bad decision they paid for in the worst way.

    Quote Originally Posted by LadyDay View Post
    It was a cousin of Emmett who told the husband about what Emmet had done - some say Emmett had angered his southern cousins with his big shot Chicago ways and it was payback.
    wow, hope that cousin felt like crap.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post


    wow, hope that cousin felt like crap.
    Oh yes.
    I seem to recall that Emmett's mum found out about the cousin's role after the cousin died. She said it made sense because of his behaviour when Emmet died. He blamed himself.

  25. #75
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    I just finished reading Mrs Mobley's book on the murder of Emmett and in no place did I see her say a cousin said he grabbed her ......There were several of them ( cousins) on the porch of the store...one at a time would go in and the others stood outside....some people were playing checkers on the store porch and when Emmett came out he whistled...no one has been able to determine whether he was whistling at a bad checker move, or to help his stuttering, after reading the book and other things on Emmett, while no 14 year old is a saint I do not think he said those things to that woman or grabbed her...the family to this day tries to keep his name and legacy alive.....the woman at the center of this is still alive and has never spoken about it after the trial...His mother DID know the dangers of letting him go south and she thought he would be safe with his famly, under no circumstances is she to blame!!
    And YOUR state, the state of Mississippi... would only release the body if the casket remained sealed with the state placed seal and never opened, when Mrs Mobley insisted, they found the body had been covered with lime to quicken the decomposition..that said this could have happened in any southern state during that time and other lynchings did. It was nothing but sad and pathetic that this child lost his life in such a horrible way.

  26. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seagorath View Post
    Is Emmett Till's autopsy report on here?
    The autopsy was not done until 2005 to determine if it was actually Emmett, since that was the reason the killers were let off, the jury said they coudln't convict because there was no proof that the body was Emmett...tehy did DNA tests and thought they found some bullet fragments......one of my earlier posts has a list of the injuries his mother documented

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    Quote Originally Posted by stacebabe View Post
    This story is so sad. And I admire his mother SO MUCH for purposely not having a closed casket to show what these people did to him. Bryant admitted he killed him, but because of double jeopardy laws, he got away scott free.
    Mrs. Bryant got away with it in life, unfortunately, but she will pay when she, her husband and the other monsters who tortured and killed this young man face God.

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanwench View Post
    Mrs. Bryant got away with it in life, unfortunately, but she will pay when she, her husband and the other monsters who tortured and killed this young man face God.
    This is very true!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoRo View Post
    This is very true!!
    This may sound really stupid, but reading about this story and seeing Emmett Till's remains made my heart and soul feel ill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alanwench View Post
    This may sound really stupid, but reading about this story and seeing Emmett Till's remains made my heart and soul feel ill.
    Doesn't sound stupid at all...I think it shows you are a decent human being and compassionate person! I always hurt when I see the pictures or think about what happened to that poor child....the people who did this are and were inhuman and should be pitied, but I just can't bring myself to feel that way....I am not as good a christian as Mrs Mobley was

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoRo View Post
    And YOUR state, the state of Mississippi... would only release the body if the casket remained sealed with the state placed seal and never opened, when Mrs Mobley insisted, they found the body had been covered with lime to quicken the decomposition..that said this could have happened in any southern state during that time and other lynchings did. It was nothing but sad and pathetic that this child lost his life in such a horrible way.
    I had never heard about the lime.

    Now that is not just an indictment of the murderers; as if the body was not enough; but an indictment of everyone who handled the body.

    Disgusting dealings; that.

    A little about the "double standards" (or just standards, if you will) of those days in Mississippi; my home state:

    As a child, I remember older black folks would always look at the ground when they spoke to you; never look you in the eyes.

    I've already mentioned water fountains labeled "whites" and "colored".

    I've already mentioned businesses with signs above the door saying "whites only".

    My parents always taught me to respect my elders; to call them "Sir" or "Mam"; yet when I once addressed an elderly black gentleman as "Sir"; they shook their heads "No" at me.

    I do not think that they were actually racists, simply following the mores of the time; yet I found it contradictory to what they had raised me to be.

    A double standard; at the very least.

    They owned a pharmacy in a rural area outside my home town; probably 60% of their customers were black; and my parents were greatly loved and respected by those folks.

    More than one black child was named after my father; after he helped to deliver the baby.

    Sorry to get long winded; it was a screwed up time; with screwed up mores; and as always; mostly only the bad comes to light.

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoRo View Post
    And YOUR state, the state of Mississippi... would only release the body if the casket remained sealed with the state placed seal and never opened, when Mrs Mobley insisted, they found the body had been covered with lime to quicken the decomposition..that said this could have happened in any southern state during that time and other lynchings did. It was nothing but sad and pathetic that this child lost his life in such a horrible way.
    I had never heard about the lime.

    Now that is not just an indictment of the murderers; as if the body was not enough; but an indictment of everyone who handled the body.

    Disgusting dealings; that.

    A little about the "double standards" (or just standards, if you will) of those days in Mississippi; my home state:

    As a child, I remember older black folks would always look at the ground when they spoke to you; never look you in the eyes.

    I've already mentioned water fountains labeled "whites" and "colored".

    I've already mentioned businesses with signs above the door saying "whites only".

    My parents always taught me to respect my elders; to call them "Sir" or "Mam"; yet when I once addressed an elderly black gentleman as "Sir"; they shook their heads "No" at me.

    I do not think that they were actually racists, simply following the mores of the time; yet I found it contradictory to what they had raised me to be.

    A double standard; at the very least.

    They owned a pharmacy in a rural area outside my home town; probably 60% of their customers were black; and my parents were greatly loved and respected by those folks.

    More than one black child was named after my father; after he helped to deliver the baby.

    Sorry to get long winded; it was a screwed up time; with screwed up mores; and as always; mostly only the bad comes to light.

  33. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by amaranthaseven View Post
    I remember discussing Emmett Till is U.S. History class in college (I don't think we discussed him in either Elementary School or High School, but maybe that's changed since the Dark Ages when I was in school). He's a very haunting and tragic case. It's amazing how few whites I know (speaking as a white person) in the Northern U.S. have not heard of him. He does show up in African American poetry and literature. Here's a poem published in 1968 by James A. Emanuel, called "Emmett Till":

    I hear a whistling
    Through the water.
    Little Emmett
    Won't be still.
    he keeps floating
    Round the darkness,
    Edging through
    The silent chill.
    Tell me, please,
    That bedtime story
    Of the fairy
    River Boy
    Who swims forever,
    Deep in treasures,
    Necklaced in
    A coral toy.

    I teach US History in high school and i ALWAYS mention him. I make it a point to. It is, IMO, vital that all students (all races, etc.) realize what life was like and what this kid's death symbolized to the Civil Rights Movement.

    I have read somewhere that during the entire episode, ET never acted afraid of those bastards.

    ""It's a mop with a tongue! Can you imagine the dingleberries?" - Mammy


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    Personally, I don't think America has progressed much since the Emmett Till days.
    It's obvious every single day when people and the media can't "get over" the fact that Barack Obama is black. Just get over it!

    Racism has CONSUMED this country...and will continue to do so.

  35. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoRo View Post
    Doesn't sound stupid at all...I think it shows you are a decent human being and compassionate person! I always hurt when I see the pictures or think about what happened to that poor child....the people who did this are and were inhuman and should be pitied, but I just can't bring myself to feel that way....I am not as good a christian as Mrs Mobley was
    Thanks, RoRo. I pity those poor excuses of humanity for being filled with poisonous hate, but that's the extent of my pity for them. Guess I'm not as good a Christian as Mrs. Mobley was, either.

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    Did someone mention that there were autopsy photos? If so, where can we find them?

  37. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by findadeathaddict View Post
    I teach US History in high school and i ALWAYS mention him. I make it a point to. It is, IMO, vital that all students (all races, etc.) realize what life was like and what this kid's death symbolized to the Civil Rights Movement.

    I have read somewhere that during the entire episode, ET never acted afraid of those bastards.
    Thank you for teaching this...too many people never heard of this and it is important that people never forget!

    It's true the relatives said he didn't fight or anything when they came in and took him from his bed, just got up and went with them and people who saw him in the back of the truck said he wasn't yelling or fighting......I think he was probably in shock, or maybe he was just praying that he would be rescued........

  38. #88
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    I just watched the docu "The Untold Story of..." Wow. Wowowowowow. That was some rough stuff. I covered myself with blankets during some of it. Just wow.

    There were so many things I never knew about the story. I thought he whistled at a white lady & then a gang of men found him & tortured him to death.

    In the docu several of his cousins that were there at the store told what they saw. One said he was sent into the store after Emmett to make sure he hadn't said anything untoward & to smooth things over. He said when they left the store the lady came out to her car & Emmett "wolf whistled." He said they all froze, terrified. Emmett saw that they were scared & also got scared. Then they all jumped in the car & took off as fast as they could.

    It's hard to think about those two men going to the house in the middle of the night & dragging that little boy out of bed. I don't know when I've heard something so disturbing...so terrifying...so sickening.

    What happened to that sweet boy should never happen to anyone. However, I agree that if I was a black mother in that time I don't think I could have let my child go. According to the docu, according to the family themselves, from their own mouths, they did know how tense it was & they did know Mississippi was a dangerous place for blacks. They also said repeatedly that Emmett was a jokester & some of the things he did weren't funny, but very dangerous. Like his cousin said, one night three of them were about walking & Emmett yelled loudly that the other two boys were fighters or something, & they'd take on anyone who stepped up. The two were angry with Emmett for courting trouble. That happened in Chicago.

    So his cousins, who were close in age to him said he was a not-so-funny prankster & his mom only saw an angel. Probably he was somewhere in between. Since I heard his family say these things, that is what I believe. I don't know where the chess players came from, no one mentioned that. They did say he "wolf whistled" at the woman. They also said one of them was told to go in & make sure he was behaving himself. They were there with him at the time, so I can only assume they know what they are talking about.

    On to the woman he whistled at: Emmett's mother said that the woman testified that he came onto her & said things. I assume she lied, since no one ever corroborated her story. I don't for one hot second believe anything she had to say, but I do have doubts b/c of what Emmett's cousin said about going in the store to check on him. Why would he be told by another cousin to do that? Why would he need to? Perhaps b/c Emmett was just the type of boy who would do something or say something. I think he might have wanted to ask her for a date to be funny? I can't guess.

    In the docu they failed to mention that the reason the jury acquitted the men was b/c of the body. I could understand that. I have always believed it was b/c they were protecting the white men. That sheriff was a racist SOB. When he said the n******s around there went up north & got ideas I about threw up. Seriously, the sheriff? Sick. Holy crow.

    I also always thought this happened in thew dark ages. I about wet myself when I saw it was the mid 50s!!!!

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    I forgot to add that I am very curious what became of the boys. The Bryant boys were so cute & sweet & innocent. I wonder what they are like now, with such terrible horrible people for parents.

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    I'm sorry, I had so many thoughts while watching the dvd & reading this thread...

    This is about what SheBoss aid - I too wonder if the genitals & ears were ah...missing b/c of fish. He was in the water for three days & then left in a box for - how long? Again, what happened it disgusting & horrible. But I do always nit pick on small things like this. Sorry guys, it's got nothing to do with how horrible the crime was.

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  41. #91
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    I heard about this case in my US History class. That's horrible to kill a child for something he or she was unaware of.

    I mean, I could see the two men give him a slap on the face and talk about the situation to his relatives, but killing him? That's just ridiculous! Seeing the picture of his corpse just fascinates me.

    RIP Emmett Till

  42. #92
    Then again, in the MS town that was home to an even more famous 1960s race related murder (triple murders, actually) they just elected their first African American mayor:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/22/us...20mayor&st=cse

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    I can't remember if the shopkeeper's wife or someone else told her husband, but whoever did is just as guilty of what happened as those who did it. This was a child, from the North, unaware of the bias and danger down here. I know that he was warned to kowtow, but kids do not always listen, do they. I just can't wrap my mind around that kind of hate, to drag a child out of bed and murder him for something most boys do, black or white.

    I myself had some bad experiences with a black boy in my high school--in the hallway at school, no less. But I kept my mouth shut, because i knew otherwise that he would be in a world of hurt, and I was smart enough to know that he was just being a boy and his color had absolutely nothing to do with it.

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    I'm not an especially sensitive person, and while I respect and admire the work of Dr. King and the other Civil Rights activists, I'd never had much desire to learn or research more than what I've already been taught. That changed after I read the story of Emmett Till a few years ago. I can't say how profoundly it has affected me. I'd always believed that racism was wrong, but I'd never known how truly horrible it could be. I'd never know that it could torture a 14 year old boy and eventually kill him so brutally. That's not to say that I had never heard the stories, or that I didn't believe them. It's that this story put a name and a face on it. 50 years after his murder, Emmett Till is still forcing people to confront the ugliness of racism.

    Last year I visited some friends in New Orleans. Having some time to myself while they were at work I decided to drive up to Money and take a look around. It was a long drive, but it was well worth it. I had this set of driving instructions http://www.winterinstitute.org/etmc/index.htm
    which made it fairly easy to find many of the places associated with the murder. Most are ruins now. I stopped outside the Bryant store in Money to take pictures, but it didn't feel right, so I just said a prayer instead.
    I drove several hours back to NO in silence, going through one of the poorest regions in the country, reflecting on what I'd just seen and it's place in history.

    I think the most baffling thing about this case is how little of it is known. To me this is a story that MUST be told, if only to change people as it changed me.

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    The atrocities comitted against Emmett Till were beyond barbaric. That said..... racism comes from all races. Granted you mostly hear of white on black racism. I'd say our country is more divided on race than it ever has been. There are just as many racist black and Latinos as there are whites. It's sad but true.I don't think we will ever see a time where racism doesn't exist. It would be great but it's really unimaginable to believe it will ever happen.

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    Before he died, I was friends with John Gothard (a friend of William Bradford Huie) who had begun looking into the Till murder around 1974. John resurrected some tough issues that surrounded the case and uncovered some new and unsettling information about Till and the men who participated in his murder that shed new light on the case and cast in less than black and white tones. The new information meant few publishers wanted to deal with Gothard’s book, not because his facts were shaky, they were solid and well documented. Those publishers that were interested wanted John to shade things here and there and he knew if he did that, the entire credibility of his work would collapse under the little polite lies they required.

    About 30 years later Stanley Nelson, who was making a documentary film on the Till case for its 50th anniversary uncovered some of the same information that John had, though not all of it. Trails go very cold after 50 years.

    Needless to say much of the truth of the murder of Emmet Till lies in John Gothard’s unpublished manuscript, a copy of which rests in an old cedar chest just about six feet from where I am typing this post.

  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by dailyvault View Post
    I happened to stumble upon the photo of Emmitt Till's face by accident while doing a Yahoo! search - I had always tried to avoid it because I heard it was incredibly gruesome. It is, undoubtedly, the most disturbing picture I've ever seen, partly because of the sight of what this kid underwent, and partly because this is the clearest picture I've seen in my life of the power of hate.

    Yes, it's gruesome and it will turn more than a few stomachs. But I honestly think that everyone should take a good look at that photo. If that photo doesn't remove a person's hatred of another race/skin color/religion/whatever, then they're simply not human.


    EDIT: Right after I posted this, I thought, "Why did this bother me more than any pictures from the Holocaust?" (I am not Jewish, nor am I black, for the record.) Maybe it was because most of the pictures from the Holocaust were taken from a distance, and maybe the human mind is just not able to comprehend the level of hatred when it sees stacks of bodies piled on top of each other. Meanwhile, the shot of Till's face in the casket was close-up, and detailed the beating he had taken, so it became (at least in my mind) more immediate, easier to understand.

    I mean no disrespect for anyone who survived the hell of a concentration camp, or families who lost loved ones to these horrible atrocities. I was just surprised by how the image of one person struck me as hard as it did.
    Or maybe like me this bothers you more because he's young and American. This happened here in our country not so long ago that we can forget about it. It is so difficult for me to grasp the sort of thinking that allowed this to happen. I'm from up north and use of the n-word makes me ill it is crass and I instantly associate it with a lack of education and proper upbing on the person who uses it. Not a person I care to associate with.

  48. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taggerez View Post
    Before he died, I was friends with John Gothard (a friend of William Bradford Huie) who had begun looking into the Till murder around 1974. John resurrected some tough issues that surrounded the case and uncovered some new and unsettling information about Till and the men who participated in his murder that shed new light on the case and cast in less than black and white tones. The new information meant few publishers wanted to deal with Gothard’s book, not because his facts were shaky, they were solid and well documented. Those publishers that were interested wanted John to shade things here and there and he knew if he did that, the entire credibility of his work would collapse under the little polite lies they required.

    About 30 years later Stanley Nelson, who was making a documentary film on the Till case for its 50th anniversary uncovered some of the same information that John had, though not all of it. Trails go very cold after 50 years.

    Needless to say much of the truth of the murder of Emmet Till lies in John Gothard’s unpublished manuscript, a copy of which rests in an old cedar chest just about six feet from where I am typing this post.

    What things did he find? Would I find anything if I search?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Armcast View Post
    Hi Mamma,

    I grew up in rural East Texas where the N-word was used quite often. I remember hearing it all the time, but the most shocking was when I heard it from an elderly lady whose yard I mowed used it. I couldn't see her in the same way afterwards.

    Being Mexican, I tend to identify myself with people who have been put-down or insulted for not being up to some arbitrary standard or excellence. I've been called just about everything associated with being Mexican (especially now with the debate on illegal immigration). Whether it be because of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation or economic condition or whatever else, words like these demean us all.

    I hate the N-word in any of its forms. Last week I had to discipline a couple of my employees for using the N-word even though they're African-American.

    Thanks for starting this thread on Emmet. His mother is a hero to me. No mother should ever have to bury her child, especially to lose him in the way she lost Emmet.

    I always ask myself, when will all this stop? When will we see each other as just plain human beings who have hopes, dreams and passions just like everybody else?

    As for the pictures, I get angry every time I see them. I remember seeing a documentary some time ago where the film crew was going to interview the lady who accused Emmet of whistling at her. The crew made it up to the driveway where they were stopped by the woman's son who told the film crew to go away.

    She'll have to live with her conscience. If she has one.
    I know of a Mexican male (American citizen) that was refused service
    in a bar in Texas during the 60's.
    And that prejudice shocked me to no end.
    That should not have happened!
    But I cannot see how the immigration debate would have anything to
    do with America's civil rights debate.
    Apples and oranges in my eyes.

    The American civil rights issue was an issue that concerned American citizens that had every right to live in the United States and partake in
    the rights all Americans had. The right to live in peace and with equality.
    Every country has immigration laws. Switzerland's immigration laws
    I've heard are the most strict of all. But most people seem to only focus
    on America's immigration laws.

    I was in Kindergarten when the Emmett Til case happened so of course
    I was not aware of the horror of this case.
    In fact in California we children were pretty much protected from what
    was going on in our southern states until the Watts Riots happened.
    This issue has always scared the hell out of me.
    I can't even imagine what Emmett Til's mother went through!
    She had so much courage. It is so difficult to view the photos.

  50. #100
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    Here is what Susan Brownmiller wrote over 30 years ago in AGAINST OUR WILL: MEN, WOMEN, AND RAPE about the Emmett Till Case:

    "Never again was the Southern white man's property code so blatantly expressed...

    "Rarely has one single case exposed so clearly as Till's , the underlying group-male antagonisms over access to women, for what began in Bryant's store should not be misconstrued as an innocent flirtation. Till's action was more than a kid's brash prank and his murder was more than a husband's revenge. The scene that was acted out in Money, Mississippi, had all the elements of a classical Greek drama. Emmett Till was going to show his black buddies that he, and by inference, they, could get a white woman, and Carolyn Bryant was the nearest convenient object. In concrete terms, the accessibility of all white women was on review.

    "This is how it must have been perceived by Till's companions, who had set him up with some degree of cruelty and then, sensing that things had gone too far, called him off. And we know this was how it was perceived by Millam and Bryant. 'Hell,' Millam told William Bradford Huie when he recalled the night of the murder, 'He showed me the white gal's picture! Bragged o'what he'd done to her! What else could I do? No use letting him get no bigger!"

    "And what of the wolf whistle, Till's 'gesture of adolescent bravado?' We are rightly aghast that a whistle could be cause for murder, but we must also accept that Emmett Till and J.W. Millam shared something in common. They both understood that the whistle was no small tweet of hubba-hubba or melodious approval for a well-turned ankle. Given the deteriorated situation--- she with a pistol in her hand, he scampering back to safety with his buddies--- it was a deliberate insult just short of a physical assault, a last reminder to Carolyn Bryant that this black boy, Emmett Till, had in mind to possess her."

    Brownmiller then goes on to describe how as a young, idealistic, modern white woman appalled by the bare facts of the murder for "the wolf whistle heard 'round the world", she smiled tolerantly at any male, black or white, who wolf-whistled, made suggestive remarks, etc. on the street.

    "After all, were not women for flirting? Wasn't a whistle or a murmurred 'May I f*** you?' an innocent compliment? And did not white women in particular have to bear the white man's burden of making amends for Southern racism?"

    But a feminist at last, she had her "epiphany": "It took fifteen years for me to resolve these questions.... to understand the insult implicit in Emmett Till's whistle, the depersonalized challenge of 'I can have you' with or without the racial aspect. Today a sexual remark on the street causes within me a fleeting but murderous rage." (Rave on, Susan. I doubt she's had to worry about wolf-whistles for some years already.)
    Last edited by Linnie; 05-29-2009 at 11:14 PM.

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