Results 1 to 24 of 24

Thread: Jack Johnson: 1st Black Heavyweight Champ - Possible Pardon for Mann Act Violation

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Nunya Bidness
    Posts
    10,843

    Jack Johnson: 1st Black Heavyweight Champ - Possible Pardon for Mann Act Violation

    It's about damn time. Anyone who 'violated' the act should be given a pardon, IMHO.

    WASHINGTON – Sen. John McCain wants a presidential pardon for Jack Johnson, who became the nation's first black heavyweight boxing champion 100 years before Barack Obama became its first black president.

    McCain feels Johnson was wronged by a 1913 conviction of violating the Mann Act by having a consensual relationship with a white woman — a conviction widely seen as racially motivated.

    "I've been a very big fight fan, I was a mediocre boxer myself," McCain, R-Ariz., said in a telephone interview. "I had admired Jack Johnson's prowess in the ring. And the more I found out about him, the more I thought a grave injustice was done."

    On Wednesday, McCain will join Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., filmmaker Ken Burns and Johnson's great niece, Linda Haywood, at a Capitol Hill news conference to unveil a resolution urging a presidential pardon for Johnson. Similar legislation offered in 2004 and last year failed to pass both chambers of Congress.

    King, a recreational boxer, said a pardon would "remove a cloud that's been over the American sporting scene ever since (Johnson) was convicted on these trumped-up charges."

    "I think the moment is now," King said.

    Presidential pardons for the dead are rare.

    In 1999, President Bill Clinton pardoned Lt. Henry O. Flipper, the Army's first black commissioned officer, who was drummed out of the military in 1882 after white officers accused him of embezzling $3,800 in commissary funds. Last year, President George W. Bush pardoned Charles Winters, who was convicted of violating the Neutrality Act when he conspired in 1948 to export aircraft to a foreign country in aid of Israel.

    The Justice Department and the White House declined to comment on this latest Johnson pardon effort.

    However, the idea has a passionate supporter in McCain, who has repeatedly said he was wrong in 1983 when he voted against a federal holiday in honor of Martin Luther King Jr.

    "It's just one of those things that you don't want to quit until you see justice," McCain said of Johnson's case. "We won't quit until we will. And I believe that enough members, if you show them the merits of this issues, that we'll get the kind of support we need."

    Johnson won the world heavyweight title on Dec. 26, 1908, after police in Australia stopped his 14-round match against the severely battered Canadian world champion, Tommy Burns. That led to a search for a "Great White Hope" who could beat Johnson. Two years later, the American world titleholder Johnson had tried for years to fight, Jim Jeffries, came out of retirement but lost in a match called "The Battle of the Century," resulting in deadly riots.

    Johnson lost the heavyweight title to Jess Willard in 1915.

    In 1913, Johnson was convicted of violating the Mann Act, which outlawed transporting women across state lines for immoral purposes. The law has since been heavily amended, but has not been repealed.

    Authorities first targeted Johnson's relationship with a white woman who later became his wife, then found another white woman to testify against him. Johnson fled the country after his conviction, but agreed years later to return and serve a 10-month jail sentence. He tried to renew his boxing career after leaving prison, but failed to regain his title. He died in a car crash in 1946 at age 68.

    "When we couldn't beat him in the ring, the white power establishment decided to beat him in the courts," Burns told the AP in a telephone interview. Burns' 2005 documentary, "Unforgivable Blackness: The Rise and Fall of Jack Johnson," examined Johnson's case and the sentencing judge's admitted desire to "send a message" to black men about relationships with white women.

    Both McCain and King said a pardon, particularly one from Obama, would carry important symbolism.


    "It would be indicative of the distance we've come, and also indicative of the distance we still have to go," McCain said.

    Burns, however, sees a pardon more as "just a question of justice, which is not only blind, but color blind," adding, "And I think it absolutely does not have anything to do with the symbolism of an African-American president pardoning an African-American unjustly accused."

    Burns helped form the Committee to Pardon Jack Johnson, which filed a petition with the Justice Department in 2004 that was never acted on. Burns said he spoke about the petition a couple of times with Bush, who as governor of Johnson's home state of Texas proclaimed Johnson's birthday as "Jack Johnson Day" for five straight years.

    Bush gave Burns a phone number which led to adviser Karl Rove, Burns said, but Rove told him a pardon "ain't gonna fly."
    Rove doesn't recall any such conversation with Burns, his spokeswoman Sheena Tahilramani said, and "if he had been approached, he wouldn't have offered an opinion."








    I watched an excellent PBS documentary about Johnson, called Unforgivable Blackness. It was heartbreaking, just tragic. Watch it, in seven parts, starting here: (Warning: strong language!)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc10OO31GeE

    Without anyone arguing, what are your thoughts?
    The most dangerous woman of all is the one who refuses to rely on your sword to save her because she carries her own.

    - R.H. Sin

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    San Antonio
    Posts
    1,335
    "In 1913, Johnson was convicted of violating the Mann Act, which outlawed transporting women across state lines for immoral purposes. The law has since been heavily amended, but has not been repealed."

    My initial (gut) response to this line was "why the hell HASN'T this been repealed?! " But then ..isn't this the law that is the basis for the FBI to be able to get involved in kidnapping cases?

    It should be rewritten, but in VERY clear terms.
    NO LEGAL DOUBLESPEAK!!!

    And Jack Johnson should get pardoned. I firmly believe that his conviction was absolutely racially inspired.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,125
    The law is needed but Jackson shouldbe pardoned period. The reason behind it was because he ran with white women and some felt he was flaunting this so he had to "pay " for it..it was all a bunch of racist crap..

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    1,497
    Them white women will get you in trouble every time.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Geelong, Australia
    Posts
    18,395
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessa View Post

    On Wednesday, McCain will join Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., filmmaker Ken Burns and Johnson's great niece, Linda Haywood, at a Capitol Hill news conference to unveil a resolution urging a presidential pardon for Johnson. Similar legislation offered in 2004 and last year failed to pass both chambers of Congress.
    This is what disturbs me most about the USA, generally a damn fine nation of people, represented by a bunch of fucktards.

    And why is this particular boxer being singled out? Why not a blanket pardon for all alleged offenders? I see this as a popularist move on McCain's behalf. He should be going for them all, not just one.
    I am a sick puppy....woof woof!!!

    Carping the living shit out of the Diem. - Me!!
    http://www.pinterest.com/neilmpenny

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    2,584

    McCain Seeks Pardon for First Black Heavyweight Champ


    “Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”

    Winston CXhruchill

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    1,497
    Them white women will get you in trouble every time.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    6,042
    Good for McCain!!!!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    14,001
    Quote Originally Posted by Screwtape View Post
    Them white women will get you in trouble every time.

    You should know ...and good for McCain...although I found this disturbing

    The law has since been heavily amended, but has not been repealed

    Maybe while we`re at the pardon we might look into the law that unjustly convicted him in the first place

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,486
    Although this is a good thing, I personally thin the McCain's motivation is highly suspect.

    The Mann Act was amended, and it's primary purpose is to stop men from forcing/taking women across state lines for immoral purposes (white slavery - prostitution)
    I'd kiss ya, but I just washed my hair...

    "Old age is no place for sissies" - Bette Davis

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    1,497
    Down with the Mann Act! That thing cuts into 47% of my action!

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    14,001
    Quote Originally Posted by Screwtape View Post
    Down with the Mann Act! That thing cuts into 47% of my action!

    LMAOOOOOOOO

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    14,001
    Quote Originally Posted by warmbear View Post
    Although this is a good thing, I personally thin the McCain's motivation is highly suspect.

    The Mann Act was amended, and it's primary purpose is to stop men from forcing/taking women across state lines for immoral purposes (white slavery - prostitution)

    Thanks WB...saved me some research

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Somewhere twixt San Antonio & Corpus Christi
    Posts
    8,274
    The intent of the Mann Act (actually The United States White-Slave Traffic Act of 1910) was to stop alleged interstate trafficking of women. The act makes "it a felony to transport knowingly any woman or girl in interstate commerce or foreign commerce for prostitution, debauchery, or any other immoral purpose. It also made it a felony to coerce a woman or a girl into such immoral act." The act's constitutionality was upheld in 1913 (Hoke v. United State) and with Caminetti v. United States, the court ruled the act also applied to "non-commercial acts of immorality". It has mostly been used to prosecute men who took women across state lines for consensual sex.
    Some pretty famous folks have been charged with Mann Act violations, Frank Lloyd Wright, Charlie Chaplin and Chuck Berry was actually convicted of a Mann Act violation and spent 20 months in prison.

    In 1978 the act was amended to protect sexually exploited children. In 1986 the act was further amended to protect all victims of sexual exploitation, regardless of gender. The most significant portion amended at this time, "...all references to debauchery and any other immoral purpose were replaced by the phrase 'any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense' ". This in essence, took the feds out of the business of defining what was immoral. The source I used for this states that consensual, non-commercial sexual activity is no longer subject to prosecution because most states have repealed criminal laws regarding fornication and adultery, which leads me to wonder, are there states that haven't and if so wouldn't that still be subject to prosecution?

    Wiki on The Mann Act

    Oh sorry, back on topic. Jack Johnson?...pardon him damn it.


    Last edited by Ima Sikfuk; 04-01-2009 at 11:21 AM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    DC
    Posts
    3,928
    Quote Originally Posted by Nessa View Post
    It's about damn time. Anyone who 'violated' the act should be given a pardon, IMHO.

    WASHINGTON – Sen. John McCain wants a presidential pardon for Jack Johnson, who became the nation's first black heavyweight boxing champion 100 years before Barack Obama became its first black president.

    McCain feels Johnson was wronged by a 1913 conviction of violating the Mann Act by having a consensual relationship with a white woman — a conviction widely seen as racially motivated.

    "I've been a very big fight fan, I was a mediocre boxer myself," McCain, R-Ariz., said in a telephone interview. "I had admired Jack Johnson's prowess in the ring. And the more I found out about him, the more I thought a grave injustice was done."

    On Wednesday, McCain will join Rep. Peter King, R-N.Y., filmmaker Ken Burns and Johnson's great niece, Linda Haywood, at a Capitol Hill news conference to unveil a resolution urging a presidential pardon for Johnson. Similar legislation offered in 2004 and last year failed to pass both chambers of Congress.

    King, a recreational boxer, said a pardon would "remove a cloud that's been over the American sporting scene ever since (Johnson) was convicted on these trumped-up charges."

    "I think the moment is now," King said.

    Presidential pardons for the dead are rare.

    In 1999, President Bill Clinton pardoned Lt. Henry O. Flipper, the Army's first black commissioned officer, who was drummed out of the military in 1882 after white officers accused him of embezzling $3,800 in commissary funds. Last year, President George W. Bush pardoned Charles Winters, who was convicted of violating the Neutrality Act when he conspired in 1948 to export aircraft to a foreign country in aid of Israel.

    The Justice Department and the White House declined to comment on this latest Johnson pardon effort.

    However, the idea has a passionate supporter in McCain, who has repeatedly said he was wrong in 1983 when he voted against a federal holiday in honor of Martin Luther King Jr.

    "It's just one of those things that you don't want to quit until you see justice," McCain said of Johnson's case. "We won't quit until we will. And I believe that enough members, if you show them the merits of this issues, that we'll get the kind of support we need."

    Johnson won the world heavyweight title on Dec. 26, 1908, after police in Australia stopped his 14-round match against the severely battered Canadian world champion, Tommy Burns. That led to a search for a "Great White Hope" who could beat Johnson. Two years later, the American world titleholder Johnson had tried for years to fight, Jim Jeffries, came out of retirement but lost in a match called "The Battle of the Century," resulting in deadly riots.

    Johnson lost the heavyweight title to Jess Willard in 1915.

    In 1913, Johnson was convicted of violating the Mann Act, which outlawed transporting women across state lines for immoral purposes. The law has since been heavily amended, but has not been repealed.

    Authorities first targeted Johnson's relationship with a white woman who later became his wife, then found another white woman to testify against him. Johnson fled the country after his conviction, but agreed years later to return and serve a 10-month jail sentence. He tried to renew his boxing career after leaving prison, but failed to regain his title. He died in a car crash in 1946 at age 68.

    "When we couldn't beat him in the ring, the white power establishment decided to beat him in the courts," Burns told the AP in a telephone interview. Burns' 2005 documentary, "Unforgivable Blackness: The Rise and Fall of Jack Johnson," examined Johnson's case and the sentencing judge's admitted desire to "send a message" to black men about relationships with white women.

    Both McCain and King said a pardon, particularly one from Obama, would carry important symbolism.


    "It would be indicative of the distance we've come, and also indicative of the distance we still have to go," McCain said.

    Burns, however, sees a pardon more as "just a question of justice, which is not only blind, but color blind," adding, "And I think it absolutely does not have anything to do with the symbolism of an African-American president pardoning an African-American unjustly accused."

    Burns helped form the Committee to Pardon Jack Johnson, which filed a petition with the Justice Department in 2004 that was never acted on. Burns said he spoke about the petition a couple of times with Bush, who as governor of Johnson's home state of Texas proclaimed Johnson's birthday as "Jack Johnson Day" for five straight years.

    Bush gave Burns a phone number which led to adviser Karl Rove, Burns said, but Rove told him a pardon "ain't gonna fly."
    Rove doesn't recall any such conversation with Burns, his spokeswoman Sheena Tahilramani said, and "if he had been approached, he wouldn't have offered an opinion."








    I watched an excellent PBS documentary about Johnson, called Unforgivable Blackness. It was heartbreaking, just tragic. Watch it, in seven parts, starting here: (Warning: strong language!)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fc10OO31GeE

    Without anyone arguing, what are your thoughts?
    I saw that documentary, too, Nessa. They also have it at our library in case anyone wants to see if their library has it. It was so horrible how he was treated that it makes me sick. I hope they give him a pardon and apologize. I wish they would do it for any other similar cases, too.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Somewhere twixt San Antonio & Corpus Christi
    Posts
    8,274

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    2,486
    When they convicted the poor guy, it was really a reach (abuse/misuse of an otherwise good law).. They just did not like it that he was with a white woman... I suppose that in a way he was fortunate that he was not convicted of rape, as many black men were who became involved in consentual relationships with white women during that era. Talk about miscarriages of justice... *shaking head*
    I'd kiss ya, but I just washed my hair...

    "Old age is no place for sissies" - Bette Davis

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    9,337

    Not Looking Good for JJ

    WASHINGTON (AP) -- The Justice Department is not supporting a bid
    to pardon Jack Johnson, the black heavyweight boxing champion who
    was imprisoned nearly a century ago because of his romantic ties
    with a white woman.
    The department's pardon attorney, Ronald L. Rodgers, tells Rep.
    Peter King in a letter that DOJ general policy is not to process
    posthumous pardon requests. The Associated Press obtained a copy of
    the letter Thursday.
    Rodgers writes that the department's resources for pardon
    requests are best used on behalf of people "who can truly
    benefit" from them. King, a New York Republican, sponsored a
    congressional resolution which urged President Barack Obama to
    pardon Johnson.
    Rodgers noted that Obama still has the authority to pardon
    whomever he wishes.
    Fuck Off. We're Full.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Middle of the road
    Posts
    1,707
    The DOJ might have their policy of no pardons, but the Trumpster is considering one for Jack.

    "President Trump tweeted Saturday afternoon that he will consider a posthumous pardon for boxer Jack Johnson after a call from actor Sylvester Stallone, who according to Trump explained the fighter’s “complex and controversial” life."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.ed7564de7562
    Morgan

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,788
    I think there are two key concepts here that have been completely and deliberately overlooked:

    1) Adults
    2) Consensual relationships

    What's to vilify and what's to talk about?
    The government - nor anyone else for that matter - has any business trying to get all up into that.
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,844
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWrath of MadelineKahn View Post
    The DOJ might have their policy of no pardons, but the Trumpster is considering one for Jack.

    "President Trump tweeted Saturday afternoon that he will consider a posthumous pardon for boxer Jack Johnson after a call from actor Sylvester Stallone, who according to Trump explained the fighter’s “complex and controversial” life."

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.ed7564de7562
    "I'm gonna pardon Jack Johnson. Great guy. Fantastic guy. Judged very unfairly. So what, he transported women across state lines for immoral purposes? Who hasn't done that?? I'm gonna pardon him. Posthumously, they call it. Then I'm gonna have him over to the White House for dinner. Great guy."
    "In a soldier's stance I aim my hand / At the mongrel dogs who teach / Fearing not I'd become my enemy / In the instant that I preach"
    - Robert Zimmerman, "My Back Pages"

    Check out my slam poetry site! (I mean, if you have a moment...) http://davidupsetrasnake.com

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    5,788
    Quote Originally Posted by Upset View Post
    "I'm gonna pardon Jack Johnson. Great guy. Fantastic guy. Judged very unfairly. So what, he transported women across state lines for immoral purposes? Who hasn't done that?? I'm gonna pardon him. Posthumously, they call it. Then I'm gonna have him over to the White House for dinner. Great guy."
    Where'd you get that transcript?
    A faulty hypothesis forming:
    A German scientist using Iranian physics and French mathematics.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    toronto, canada ( Etobicoke)
    Posts
    4,113
    Quote Originally Posted by Upset View Post
    "I'm gonna pardon Jack Johnson. Great guy. Fantastic guy. Judged very unfairly. So what, he transported women across state lines for immoral purposes? Who hasn't done that?? I'm gonna pardon him. Posthumously, they call it. Then I'm gonna have him over to the White House for dinner. Great guy."
    If they were black women he wouldn't have been charged at all.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    4,610
    Quote Originally Posted by Upset View Post
    "I'm gonna pardon Jack Johnson. Great guy. Fantastic guy. Judged very unfairly. So what, he transported women across state lines for immoral purposes? Who hasn't done that?? I'm gonna pardon him. Posthumously, they call it. Then I'm gonna have him over to the White House for dinner. Great guy."
    LOL, I so agree of course Donald Trump will never pardon a black man.
    Even a man who has been dead for years.
    Carolyn(1958-2009) always in my heart.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •