Count me as third.Originally Posted by cindyt
Count me as third.
Guest
Why tear down a whole house? put up a fence, to tear the whole thing down just because of lookie loo's sounds extreme.
Guest
I can't tell if she meant that as you have to go through me to get to richard or if she meant she wanted to join in
Renowned Death Hag
This is something else I consider weird.
Karen's husband has a resemblance to Richard.
Coincidence?
[IMG]http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTefVeF4lISCABIgCjzbkF/SIG=12805ags9/EXP=1217030366/**http%3A//www.ket.org/pressroom/2004/11/CYRC___0150.jpg[/IMG]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
Senior Death Hag
INteresting story.....you know, I always wondered about her. She never did seem to be happy in her life and none of her relationships ever worked for some reason.
Maybe she was and didn't want to admit it.
Renowned Death Hag
This is what Karen's husband had to say about their brief marriage an dwhy it didn't work out. IT is an atricle from People magazine
Although Burris insists "We always got along, always cared about each other," they soon grew apart. "Karen was dealing with her anorexia and her career, I was dealing with my real estate problems," he explains. "I feel totally guilty, like I'd like to reverse everything. I tried to work with her. I got her in touch with a doctor, but she wouldn't admit she had an eating problem. We both tried, but we just couldn't work it out."
If there were any I'm positive this had nothing to do with Karen.
Last edited by siameseman; 09-14-2012 at 04:44 PM.
Renowned Death Hag
The people magazine interview was done february 21, 1983. You are right. No other words have come from him since. It was not like he had anything Nasty to say.
I will attach the like. IT was on Leadsister.om
http://www.leadsister.com/articles/peoplefeb83.html
Coconn04 thanks for that link...look like a really interesting site..I've saved it to my favourites and will plough through it later! xx
A couple of weeks ago here in the UK, BBC4 had a "Carpenters Night" featuring a live show from Vegas from 1970-something..and interviews and stuff too.....a good 4 hours worth of TV...and just reinstates the fact that no matter what went on in her private life...Karen was amazing...and can't be matched...and it's a bloody tragedy that she's no longer here...that's just my thoughts! xx
Yes, I'm a KC fan, I've viewed quite a few of Carpenter docs, most avail on Youtube including Tom Haynes' banned film ... which came dangerously close to the truth on KC. No, Karen was never gay.
For more light on this, read the review of the book "The Carpenters: Untold Story by Ray Coleman" (on Amazon.com) by "James Koenig".
Here's an excerpt of a reply to this review (Amazon.com) from "Rocky":
"Mr. Koenig is a sharp and perceptive man...and he is correct...the true story of the Carpenters has yet to be written or told...but I know it...I know who and what the real, inner Karen was...I know why she developed her eating disorders...I know why Tom Burris demanded a divorce...I know what they argued about on the night he demanded a divorce...
...I know because in 1969, Karen and I had a relationship very few knew about , a very close relationship emotionally which we both planned to esult in marriage one day...I can tell you that Karen did have at least one man in her life who loved her with all of his heart and soul...one day, her mother forcibly ended our relationship against our wishes, and I was threatened and traumatized by it...Richard tells people he has never heard of me...he knows who I am...we met in person in 1969 in the kitchen of a man named Julie Rifkind..
.there are Carpenter family secrets which Richard has protected well...one day I hope all of you will find out what the truth is...I am told that the hospital's main lawyer found out PLENTY which he threatened to go public with...somehow Mr.Koenig has hit the nail on the head...read and believe his review.,,I know for a fact that he is correct...except for Karen, the Carpenter family shunned me in 1969 and they do again now in 2005...
Karen was a wonderful, compassionate,and caring person inside...the outer Karen was an act...her last words to me were "I am afraid that they will try to hurt you...I just can't take the risk of them hurting you."...yes, Mr. Koenig, the true Carpenter story has yet to be told...and anyone who does, will immediately be facing a lawsuit...that's "the Carpenter way."
Excerpt from Hal Blaine's Autobiography - unpublish chapter on the Carpenters:
"After about the third hit Karen came to me and asked me to have a drum kit made exactly like mine so that she could play the same arrangments on the road. I had been using my monster octoplus custom drums on all their hits.
I very diplomatically asked, "When the hell are you gonna stop playing the drums and start fronting this outfit??" (For some reason females always look rather awkward playing a set of drums, and don't get me wrong, she was a great drummer, just had that strange look sitting at the drums).
I obviously said the wrong thing because Jack and Richard kind of jumped me, "Don't make waves." I was told very nicely, "Richard is the star of this outfit, that's the way the folks want it and that's that!!!"
The senior Carpenters were pretty upset at me in the beginning as it was, they felt that Karen should be making the records. I was told that Mrs. Carpenter said, "I've seen many drummers on TV and Karen is as good as any of them!!" She didn't understand the technical side of recording and she was of course trying to protect her daughter, the drummer.
But only the drummer. Richard was the star of the show, but not for long I guess."
[note: Hal Blaine was the studio drummer at A&M & did most of the studio drummming work on the Carpenters alblum.]
--------- end of quote ------------------------------------
Here's a quote from one of the Karen Carpenters documentaries where Sherwin Bash (Carpenters' Show biz manager 1969-75) was interviewed:
"The fans just adored her (Karen) . I think Richard was very jealous of her."
-----------------------------------------------------------
I've read elsewhere that Agnes berated Karen for stealing the credit (i.e. "Star") from Richard.
I would find it very hard to believe that Karen was gay.
Richard, if he was gay surely could have picked a better beard than his own cousin to marry.
Gross.
There has to be a huge, huge secret regarding the Carpenter family that will probably never be known. I wonder if there was possibly some sort of incest thing going on or something else equally sinister, as a lot of people have suspected that have posted. I have always liked the carpenters, Karen had a one of a kind voice that would give me chills hearing her sing. I have everything that they have ever released. Anyway, if Richard had everyone sign confidentiality agreements, yeah there is definatley something bad he don't want anyone to know. Creepy. I saw a documentary on them a few years ago on vh1 ( behind the music maybe?) and Richard was oozing with creepiness. His wife and kids were on there too towards the end of it, and they all looked like him. I don't know, but it was weird. I'm sorry but he definatley did not make the carpenters. Karen was responsible for that. And as someone else posted, I believe he was jealous of karen.
you can bet your ass where there is an eating disorder there is some sort of childhood trauma and having spent a fair amount of time in ed units, my experiance is most of the time it is of a sexual nature.
Go to Youtube:
There should be a documentary "A Current Affairs - the Karen Carpenter Cover-up see parts 1& 2).
Most interesting parts are interviews from Steven Levenkron; KC's eating dis-order therapist.
No, I don't believe Levenkron "cured" her of her eating dis-order behavior but I doubt if anyone could given the duration of some 7 years she had been anorexic. A lot of physical damage had already been done.
Very interesting comments from Levenkron on Richard & the parent's lack of interest in Karen's condition while she was under Levenkron's care.
Over the course of 1 yr. while KC was in NY - Levenkron said NOT ONCE did Richard or Agnes/Harold ever phoned him to discuss KC's condition ... this was most shocking behavior to Levenkron and highly unusual amongst his patients because the loved ones would often called once - a - week.
On some of the Carpenters youtube video, a few have noted how "cold" Richard appears to be on issues regarding Karen.
I think I read somewhere RC donated $3 million to the One Thousand Oaks Community & had a Plaza named after himself AND his wife.
I would have thought he would want to name it after his deceased sister Karen and not to living entities. So much for honoring her memories.
To me actions speaks louder than words.
From what I understand Karen's weight wasn't horriably low at her death, She died of the abuse she did to her body, especially ipacac. Ipacac destroys the heart.
Renowned Death Hag
the ipacac, I think only came towards the end.
Vomiting would have destroyed Karen voice.
This is the reason she resorted to laxatives and thyroid medication.
I believe this is the reason why Karen could lie to her therapist and say that she was not taking Tyroid or laxatives and she could still control her weight.
Karen's body was not meant to be thin. But it was the culture.
She thought that by these method she could control it.
Another disturbing thing I head was in a recent radio interview with Richard on why he chose Karen to sing his songs.
Lets face it, if Richard had a good enough voice we would have never heard of Karen.
He said his mother had the same exact voice as Karen's, but was shy to sing in Public.
HE got karen singing the same way.
Karen's mother, if she would not have been so shy, would have profited from her voice.
Karen was going out and doing it.
I will leave you with a link to the anorexia website.
Anorexia is especially common among young white girls and those who need to have more control over their lives. Among anorexics, you will find female hyper-achievers, fashion models, dancers, gymnasts, and ballet troupes. It is the good girls disease. Ever since Karen Carpenter died in 1983, doctors, scientists, and therapists, among many others, have been investigating the cause of this fatal eating disorder. One common cause, as everyone agrees, is American culture and the media.
http://anorexics.net/body_frame.html#karen
You said:
"He said his mother had the same exact voice as Karen's, but was shy to sing in Public."
[Really? "Same Exact voice" - I don't think so, at least not from earlier radio interviews with Mrs. Agnes Carpenter that I've heard. KC's voice was quite unique - just ask Herb Alpert. Tell me something, when is Richard going to pay some respect to his dead sister & stop be-littling her talent. Without her voice, they (Richard by himself) would never have gotten the AM contract.]
Sure, Richard always wanted to be THE music star, after all he was a music prodigy so naturally the family's hopes & aspirations lay with Richard's career. Little did he (& Agnes) know that his sister (or half sister?) would steal his thunder.
You said: "One common cause, as everyone [BS; says who; cite your reference] agrees, is American culture and the media."
[this is a pack of BS & dis-information and you know it; don't blame it on "American culture". Anorexia is a family based dis-order.]
I know Richard has paid "media consultants" (some call them "spin doctors") working the web for him - hope your're not one of these. Yeah, I would say he's got a few secrets alright.
No wonder, on his website he goes out of his way & states:
"I consider Olivia a very good friend." [ONJ was KC's closest confidante - I'd bet you ONJ knows a few skeletons and she can't be bought too easily]
I agree. That "Untold Story" book music2008 I use to have and it didn't say much that isn't already known about Karen's life for obvious reasons. Same with the newer book. I love your posts music2008. If someone is looking for the truth about what happened to Karen a lot of it is in what you wrote (there's much more though).
I doubt this individual in Karen's family is really able to understand this.
Karen was a victim and I don't think she had much of a choice with a lot of things in her life.
You can't help but feel for her (I can"t anyway).
Last edited by siameseman; 08-04-2013 at 05:42 PM.
Renowned Death Hag
I have found the radio interview with Richard Carpenter where Richard says that Karen's voice was a lot like his mother Agnes.
http://www.podfeed.net/episode/Inter...rpenter/349458
As far as Karen being competitive, I remember Phil Ramone (who for what I know doesn't have a gag order placed on him ) said that when Karen was living with him they were watching an Olivia Newton John special. Karen was comparing herself to Olivia as though Karen thought she looked heavy next to Olivia.
I believe on another BBC Special if I could find it Karen neighbor always thought that Karen took criticism to heart.
Another girl who I often think of when I think of Karen is Mary Kate Olsen.
She is in another family situation. SHe is know for being cute and a twin.
What is she beside that?
Other singers like Cher and Barbra Steisand left dysfuntional homes at an early age to persue their dreams. Karen was too much of the good girl to do this.
My opinion only, I think only Karen could have saved Karen.
Siemese...:
Yes, I would certainly agree with you on Ray Coleman's book since it is an "authorized" bio so "R" would have had to sign-off on it.
You said:
"And I would say she also had to sign that agreement with Richard as well so she won't ever be saying much. This agreement stuff sure seems weird to me."
I would not agree with you on this .... ONJ has had a very successful career, she does not need Richard's $$$. No one can "force" you to sign a non-disclosure agreement. You BUY silence. Richard has little or no control over ONJ and he knows it. Believe, the last thing Richard would want to do is to piss-off ONJ. To my knowledge, she has never comment on Richard since K's death. This tells me a lot. Richard's statement (which he goes out of the way to make): "I consider Olivia to be a good friend" on his website says a lot. He does not want to pick a fight with Olivia.
It has been said that Tom Burris signed a non-disclosure agreement with the Carpenters (i.e. Richard) & this applies to all his family members & even close friends ... keep in mind he & Karen were still officially married at the time of her death. I do not know whether there was a pre-nuptial agreement in place, although I expect so because of the role of Werner Wolfen, Karen & R's financial & legal advisor. In any case, the estate of KC had to be resolved and since we a dealing with a significant amount of money$$, and Tom Burris wasn't wealthy at all ... something Werner alluded to, this matter had to be resolved & his (Tom's) price was the signining of "non-disclosure" agreement.
By the way, Coconut.... is a media spin meister working for Richard, I've encounter his type before.
I've got a few more tidbits .... so stay tune.
Notice in that pic she is looking one way and he is looking another way. From day one they are both on the wrong page.
In the TV-movie about the Carpenters in which Cindy Gibb played Karen, Louise Fletcher also appeared in the role of Karen and Richard's Mom and her performance is a real hoot. Fletcher played Mrs. Carpenter as a very odd and controlling woman ("Kids, stop all that racket! You're going to get us all arrested!") who gives Richard his first taste of drugs (in the form of sleeping pills, I believe). Anyway, Louise Fletcher plays the role pretty over-the-top and I think Mrs. Carpenter's "cluelessness" in the movie might have been an accurate representation of who the woman was in real life.
"My opinion only, I think only Karen could have saved Karen."
Your opinion would only matter if you were not under the employment of Richard as "Media & Promotional" person (i.e. a media spin-meister ) whose sole role is to generate dis-information and false trails to any negative views on Richard.
You tried blaming Karen's fatal anorexia condition on "American Culture" and when that bogus thesis fails, it's now Karen's own fault.
Try Santa Claus next.
There's quite a few Carpenters documentaries out there, especially on YouTube - I would say about 7 or 8 that I've seen. I would recommend all of them; even the "authorized" one like "Yesterday Once More". Don't miss the banned Tom Haynes (The Karen Carpenter Story - parts 1 & 2). Together they'll give a more complete picture.
"Anyway, Louise Fletcher plays the role pretty over-the-top and I think Mrs. Carpenter's "cluelessness" in the movie might have been an accurate representation of who the woman was in real life."
--------------------- ----------------------------------------------
Don't rely only on One single source, Hollywood is known to been a script.
There are at least 2 real life sources which says otherwise:
Randy Schmidt (author of another bio): "Agnes was the one who wore the pants in the Carpenter household."
Mrs. Vaiuso (Carpenter neighbor & familty friend in New Haven): "Agnes pretty ran the house."
Agnes & Mrs. Wallace ran the Carpenter Fan club. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Agnes Carpenter ran the Carpenter family .... PERIOD.
Renowned Death Hag
[quote=music2008;345701]Siemese...:
By the way, Coconut.... is a media spin meister working for Richard, I've encounter his type before.
I AM NOT. The link I directed you to had comments made by the doctor who treated. Richard keeps trying to trash this guy. It also had stories of other girls who had anorexia. HEre is is again.
http://anorexics.net/body_frame.html#karen
Everyone's story is different.
One other comment I heard on a documentary was very interesting.
I don't know if you know Michael Jackson weight but he is 5 ft 11inches and weights 130. THis is stated on her mug shot. I believe he is also anorexic.
One analyst said that has Michael was in his twenties he started looking more and more like his father.
Michael wanted to do everything to erase his father image. This started to anorexia and obsession with plastic surgery.
Michael, like Karen. also lived with his parents until his mid twenties.
Because of Karen's difficult relationship with her mother, she might have wanted to avoid looking like her.
BY the way, I am a girl.
Coconn04 said:
"Because of Karen's difficult relationship with her mother, she might have wanted to avoid looking like her.
BY the way, I am a girl."
Or so you say, you are still working for Richard's media & promotional (dis-information) outfit that he has employed. The truth is you say anything to cover his butt.
So your new thesis on Karen's anorexic problem is not longer "American Cult", not Santa Claus but her "difficult relationship" with her mom" - i.e. your'e saying it's definitely not Richards' fault."
From Debbie Vaiuso (Carpenter's longtime friend from New Haven):
"Richard was just like his mom, Agnes." [i.e. Dominating, mean & determined]
i.e. Bruce Gifford (R & K's music teacher in Downey]: "Richard was always an aggressive pusher, he would push, push until he gets what he wants."
"Karen, well she wasn't like any of them." [thank God, GOOD]
Even after 25 years after her passing, Richard has never accepted his own legacy (musical) .... the sooner (if ever) he learns to stop marginalizing/trashing Karen's legacy, the greater his own reputation.
Her voice was never hers, it belonged to Richard.
Yeah, blame it all on Santa.
Renowned Death Hag
No I am not working for Richard.
I saw many of the Carpenter documentaries also.
Karen did not make most of the choices in her life. I agree.
I pointed to other examples of people that are in the same boat such as Mary Kate Olsen. SHe was a baby when she was on that TV show.I mean what is she without her twin.
Michael Jackson was being controlled by his father since he was 5.
Michael was for a long time the breadwinner.
But yes some people did escape their controlling situations. I remember Cher talking on on of her documentaries that she made the choice to divorce Sonny because she felt she was being controlled. Cher was down to some really low weight too. She didn't know what was going to happed to her either but she did it.
Marie Osmond also had an eating disorder.
The Heart documetary about the Wilson sister was also interesting.
Ann Wilson was never skinny and she had a hard time controlling her weight. The music business is very sexist and mean towards women. It didn't effect Meatloaf's record sale because he was overweight but it did effect the group Heart.
Lets work together. We are death hags.
Coconn04:
"Lets work together. We are death hags."
Thanks but no thanks.
Unlike you, I'm not interested in covering up Richard's butt (this is after all your bottom line - Richard had nothing to do with K's plight - at all cost deny, deny, deny ...).
On more than a few of the documentaries (I would not tell you which one; it'll probably get removed from YouTube; Richard is/was an excellent musical arranger but a lousy, lousy "actor" & singer - you can easily see Richard's "crocodile tears" on a few of them).
By your own twisted logic; there must not be any anorexics in Japan, France, Germany, etc. after all it's the "American Culture" that's doing it.
Laughable.
"Coconn04 thanks for that link...look like a really interesting site..I've saved it to my favourites and will plough through it later! xx"
Beware, "Leadsister.com" is a Carpenter (i.e. Richard's) controlled site.
Anything remotely negative to "R" (it's primary objective) is removed, banned, etc. from the site .... in intelligence parlance, it's called "Controlled Opposition".
There's a lot of material on it, all of it is harmless to "R".
This is one of the roles of "dis-information agent" like Coconn04.
Renowned Death Hag
The E! channel had a good one "True Hollywood Story" about The Carpenters, and that one didn't pull any punches. One of the band members talked about how bossy Karen was and some other things, pretty much a "bitch".
Nobody's perfect in this world. R & K stove for musical perfection, so one might ask - would it be unreasonable to expect "perfection" from their own band?
Yes, "True Hollywood" was one of the better docs out their but view them ALL & combine them.
KC had her hairdresser "Maria G" fired from A&M ..... mostly tension caused by Maria's involvement with Richard (this is most unusual for a brother/sister relationship). Their subsequent move out of their Downey home to a house which supposedly R & K both bought (I don't believe this, I think Richard paid for the whole house himself) raised a few eyebrows, especially the Lubeck house was only a FEW BLOCKS away!
Where there's smoke there's got to be fire?
Damn Coco and Music.. ya'll chill with the fighting before the hoses get brought out.
Can I say something? Richard and Karen...whether there's some deep dark family secret or not, whether either of them was gay or not, whether their behavior was sometimes strange or not...even whether there's a conspiracy to conceal the truth or not...they made some amazing music together...isn't that enough in the end for the world at large?
"isn't that enough in the end for the world at large."
NVr - this is "findDeath.com" ..... if you want Carpenter music appreciation (& believe me, I'm KC fan - she's had a "great set of pipes") go to YouTube; there are plenty of videos there for you.
If you are not satisfy with the so-call "official" explainations (i.e. "lies" as promoted by various dubious characters) for her demise, this is the place.
Reading many of these posts and those confidentiality agreements that Richard "made" people sign, I have to ask this...what if someone had REFUSED to sign such a thing?
True, chances are Richard could go after such a person in front of the press and call that person a liar in public or whatever but suing them? Ah..one can't force someone to sign anything if they don't wish too.
Not even Richard Carpenter !!
"I have to ask this...what if someone had REFUSED to sign such a thing?"
Cathy:
You're absolutely right, no one can force you to sign these "agreements" whereby the signor voluntarily surrenders his/her rights by entering into a contract.
Unless ..... there are $$$$ incentives to do so.
For example, if you were/are a carpenter band member(s) and might have some 'knowledge' & you still want to get additional/future studio work ... Richard could certainly facilitate that - if you sign the agreement.
I've mention the example of Tom Burris, KC's estranged husband at the time of her death. KC's estate issue had to be resolved .... we are talking about a significant amount of money here, Both KC & R came from "blue-collar" working class familty; they worked very hard & saved their $$$.
This is just my guess (based on the #records sold, 800+ concerts, TV specials, etc. + real estate investments); KC's estate would be several hundred millions (in 1980s dollars); say $200 - $500 million. That's my guess.
So, basically it comes down to buying people's silence.
And if they don't shut-up; these "allegations" are so serious; lawsuits would be involved, especially if they were made by media (e.g. BBC).
This is why you have to see ALL the Carpenter documentaries that's been made .... a lot of things are 'implied' because they cannot be said outright.
Yes, there's a few skeletons in Richard's closet.
Stay tune .... more "clues" are coming.
I've known many bulemic singers.
Coconn04:
"He said his mother had the same exact voice as Karen's, but was shy to sing in Public."
Petula Clark:
"Singing is more than just hitting the right notes."
Frank Pooler (R & Karen's music prof):
"Many great singers didn't have great voices, it's more than just the right notes, great singers are great communicators."
Funny how Herb Alpert (who has met Agnes a number of times) never signed Agnes to a recording contract.
sunshine74137:
yes, but how many of them literally "starved" (not quite accurate here but you get the gist) themselves to death. i.e. taking up to 80 diuretics per day and even using thyroid hormone to alter metabolism?
Like someone said these are symphoms not the cause(s).
Don't fall for Coconn04's dis-information, he's got to protect Richard (his paymaster) at all cost.
Renowned Death Hag
Chill out music2008, you are harping about misinformation but you are stating that Coconn works for Richard Carpenter? Kinda hypocritical, Don't you think? If you want to remain a member here I suggest you learn to respect other opinions. No one like's a know it all on a forum, especially one with less than 20 post under their belt.
Renowned Death Hag
ZING!!!
.... especially someone with less than 20 posts .."
Ok, let me see, if I post more than 20 times, this would make me more credible?
So, the more I post, the more credible i become.
Mmmm
Wow, my first post and I walk right into a maelstrom. Who is or isn't Richard's flack? To quote Kelly Bundy, "The Mind Wobbles."
I come from a family of five kids and I shared a room with my older sister until I was 15 years old. She LOVED The Carpenters and played their records over and over, interspersed with some Barry Manilow for variety. Even as a little girl, I remember thinking Karen's voice was so effortless, and I naively thought she had to be as happy as she sounded. I had a particular fondness for the song "Only Yesterday."
I don't really know if there was incest going on, my personal take was always that Richard was a closet case, but God knows I've been wrong about stuff before. What I've always heard with anorexics is that many times they feel they have no control over their lives and people's expectations of them, so they dig into the one thing they feel they have absolute control over: their weight. I'm sure each circumstance is different; I would ultimately have to defer to people who have treated or been treated for ED. But if Karen was caught between a controlling mother and a controlling brother, it wouldn't be a total stretch to think she'd try to take some control back by use of the weight control.
My sister still loves The Carpenters, btw. Their Christmas CD is a holiday staple for our family. When we put it on, someone invariably ends up saying, "I love my dead Karen."
Martin -
KC's got the best set of "pipes" of any female singer (at least in the English language) for the last 50 yrs. I rate her right up there with Patsy Cline. Now that's my take.
I came into KC's demise or rather checked into it because all the documentaries that I've view (Youtube) - at least 8; something wasn't right.
So you think it's a "storm" going on right now?
Consider:
Siameseman said:
"Former music teachers, boyfriends, musicians all allude to there being secrets in the Carpenter family but they never say what they are. There also was a rumor going around that the lawyer for the hospital where she died was very shocked at something they found out about Karen and was very angry at Richard. The lawyer was also suppose to be surprised
that "this secret' was able to be kept hidden from the public for so long. I have no clue what this is all about or if it is just gossip but it makes me wonder."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
sunshine74137 said:
"you can bet your ass where there is an eating disorder there is some sort of childhood trauma and having spent a fair amount of time in ed units, my experiance is most of the time it is of a sexual nature."
---------------------------------------------
I think both of you are onto something. Let me take a stab at this .... I've heard this rumour too.
The autopsy done on KC at Downey Hosp. was inconclusive, in definitively establishing the cause of death. There were certainly confusions so a second more detail autopsy analysis was done (req. by State laws).
In this case, KC's entire medical history would have been examined in order to help pathologist(s) to more fully establish the cause of death.
Here's the $64,000 question(s):
Was KC ever admitted to Downey Hospital prior to Feb.4/1983 (date of her death)?
If so, what was the nature of these "admission(s)"?
The hospital administrator would have recovered & gather all available KC med. records, detailing treatments, etc. performed. Yes, even those records that are sealed.
Why would these be given to the Downey Hospital lawyer?
Reason - too hot to handle.
Renowned Death Hag
Having more post don't make you more credible Music, but having a little tact does.
"Storm?" Not really. Just an attempt at cheekiness.
It's a shame she was never able to escape and find real happiness.
"...... it's a shame she wasn't able ......"
Yes, very much so.
Pretty much explains why she married Tom Burris, after a 2 month courtship. I think they met in June'80 and married in Aug.80!! Now, that is unusual. I think she was pretty desparate.
Ray Coleman mentioned that she had a difficult time establishing a deep relationship with anyone outside her own family.
Guest
I posted earlier (post 153) that singing is extremely difficult at low weights. Not due to purging but personally it felt like your lungs won't expand enough. I used to cycle "Clen" A steroid used to control asthma for horses and cynthroid to drop lbs. And I'm no stranger to massive doses of diuretics and laxatives. I'm sure the experiance is different for everyone, and I can't claim to be an expert, all I know is what Ive learned from personal experiance and from others I've met in different treatment facilities. LOL many of you are more educated on the subject than I am.
sunshine74137:
Even Richard admits, KC sang with a "huskier" voice in her earlier years, late in her career, KC sang higher pitch.
I really think this was due the effects of ipecac which as you know is a muscle toxin. This was confirm in her autopsy report.
That's not to say, she couldn't sing well - listen to "Rainbow Connection": I think she did a great job.
For me, her best was 1970-76. She had a gorgeous set of pipes, and rather unique.
Sherwin Bash: "With so many singers, people ask .... was that so & so, when KC sang, within 2 notes you know exactly who it is."
By the way, care to speculate on the $64,000 question? I don't have an answer, only a suspicion, perhaps others (i.e. in Downey) can add/answer this.
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