Buddy Holly

[racingfan]

Ok, but for those of you who plan to get the book, don't read any further....

***SPOILER ALERT***
According to Peggy Sue, Buddy just wanted to get married, and he just picked someone. He may have been in love with a girl from Lubbock, but she was a little bit loose and it would have disgraced his family. He actually did give her money to leave town because she was pregnant. Peggy Sue says it wasn't his baby, but Niki Sullivan said it was (I read that in a different book).
Anyway, he married Maria instead. From the beginning, it was a bad choice. Basically Maria Elena was very snobby to Peggy Sue and not much fun to be around. Buddy was fun loving and adventurous and Maria was not. Anyway, Peggy Sue says that he confided to her before his death that he planned to divorce Maria Elena.
On the day of the funeral, Peggy Sue visited Maria at the Holley house, and she was dressed in black. But Peggy Sue later noticed Maria Elena didn't show up at the service and left the funeral to check on her. Maria was then dressed all in white and ready to board the plane for New York.
Also, Mrs. Holley confirmed that Buddy was planning to divorce Maria Elena.
Peggy Sue visited Maria Elena in New York a few weeks later and Maria said she was seeing a guy at work (already). The apartment was all cleaned out except for the ampex tape recorder (famous apartment tapes). Maria NEVER mentioned being pregnant. Also, she had worn white on the day she was supposedly having a miscarriage, which you wouldn't do because of bleeding. Here is the kicker:

"By the time I left the next morning, there was one thing I was absolutely sure about. Maria had made it quite clear that she would never had tied Buddy down with what she referred to as a snotty-nosed kid because his career was the most important thing." (quoted directly, italics and all)

The book does claim that he loved Peggy Sue instead, which I am not sure about. But she is corroborating what others have said about Maria, and nobody is vouching for Maria. So what do you think?

Not that I am a fan of Maria myself, but it seems awfully self-serving and presumptuous of Peggy Sue to claim one of the rock n roll's pioneers was in love with her. Certainly, it's a romantic thought, that the singer who penned to rock anthem "Peggy Sue" actually fell in love with the girl he was singing about, but I have to wonder if it's more of a ploy to sell more books. I mean, what would be the point of telling the world this now?

[Gary]

She kept her diary for years and was always told "Nobody would be interested in that stuff" but then she finally showed people who were interested and put it in book form. I think everything in Peggy's book is true. I've met pretty much met everybody mentioned in the book and nobody has sued for slander......not Buddy's family, not J.I. about the abuse, not Maria about ANYTHING......I can see plenty of reason to sue IF these stories were false.

[***diana***]

Out of all the books I have read, it is the best one. Probably because it was written by someone who knew and cared about him, yet didn't make him out to be a goody-two-shoes. She didn't hide anything to make him look better. Also, the style and wording of the book made you feel like you were really there. It wasn't the slightest bit boring, as some auto/biographies get. I was so sad when I finished the book and haven't read another since because I can't find anything that would keep me as interested.

[racingfan]

Oh, I didn't mean to imply the book is chock full of lies or anything. I was just pointing out that it takes some guts to say Buddy was in love with her, and it's a claim that's hard -- if not impossible -- to substantiate. Maybe I'm being cynical but that particular claim seemed slightly over the top to me and, as I said before, self-serving on her part.

[John carpenter]

Just came across this interview with Buddy and Jerry Allison on Youtube. Apparently Eddie Cochran was in the room too but you really don't hear him speak. Really interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdFAPQlYRY8

Thanks Nancy that was awesome.

[buddyhollylover]

have i said on here before how much in love i am w/ buddy?

[Gary]

have i said on here before how much in love i am w/ buddy?

Ummmmm.....yes. HA HA HA
But that's okay!

[***diana***]

I wouldn't say I am in love with Buddy (I never knew him personally!), but what I know of him, he is the type with whom I would have a great friendship. I am the kind of girl that always hung out with the guys anyway. I admire Buddy's adventurous spirit and renegade attitude. And yet he had a strong faith (although it didn't always keep him out of trouble). He was also headstrong, like I am. I wish I would have been born in a different time and place...I missed some fun times!

[Alanwench]

Thank you, b fly........much appreciated!

Gary, have you ever considered writing a book about Buddy?

[Gary]

HA HA HA.........nope. Too much work!

[***diana***]

This is a promo for Peggy Sue's book. I found this interview interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFIqZ...eature=related

[***diana***]

Happy belated birthday Buddy (Sept 7). You would have been 73 years old.

[Gary]

For all you Buddy Holly/Clear Lake Iowa fans out there:

CLEAR LAKE, IA - The Surf Ballroom & Museum announced today the artists who are scheduled to appear at the 2010 Winter Dance Party event, scheduled for February 3-6, 2010.

Scheduled to appear are Righteous Brothers' Bill Medley, Fabian, The Crickets, Lesley Gore, Freddy Cannon, Bobby Hendricks' Drifters, The Original Whitesidewalls, The Orlons, Charlie Gracie, Tommy Allsup and Dickey Lee.

Advance tickets for the annual event will be sold for $100.00 each and are valid for the evenings of Thursday, February 4th through Saturday, February 6th. A separate ticket for Wednesday, February 3rd is being offered for $7.00.

Seating for the event is priced at $60 for a 4 person booth, $90 for a 6 person booth and $150 for a table which seats 10 people. You must purchase a minimum of 4 tickets to reserve a 4 person booth, 6 tickets to reserve a 6 person booth and 8 tickets to reserve a 10 person table on the floor. The booths and tables will be reserved in your name for all 3 evenings of entertainment. Both tickets and seating for the event will be sold on a first-come, first-served basis. Tickets for the event are non-refundable.

[Jobes]

There are about 4 or 5 pictures of the crash that are pretty widely circulated, but this is the first time that I have seen this one:



That's apparently Buddy, but could also very well be Ritchie. Can any of the Holly fanatics confirm this?

[morticia53]

I believe it is Richie, Buddy had on a yellow coat, this coat looks dark like the one Richie was wearing. I am sure Gary would know for sure though.

[Not Fade Away]

Yeah, that's Richie.

[jeftis]

Is there any that shows the pilots legs sticking up? I heard there was one where you could see the pilots legs.

[Not Fade Away]

Is there any that shows the pilots legs sticking up? I heard there was one where you could see the pilots legs.

I've heard of that, but I haven't seen it. I've seen the supposed photo and I still couldn't see it. Maybe Gary knows?

[Gary]

#1 - Yes, that's Ritchie in the dark coat.
#2 - I have seen the photo of Roger's boot sticking out of the plane wreckage. Like an idiot, I never hit the "save as" for the picture (I saw it on ebay a few years back), as I thought I would see a better copy of it, but I've never seen it since. Last year, a local Holly guy was selling a complete set on ebay of (I believe) approx. 30 photos that were taken that morning.....6 color and the rest b&w.....and in looking at the auction ad, I never saw the one with the foot sticking out, yet he is the one that sold a copy a few years before. In the ad he said the set was copies of EVERY picture taken that morning......many of them were distance shots of the crash in the field, some were of authorities standing around, and only a couple of the crash I've never seen before, from different angles. I will continue searching for that picture with the boot!

[Gary]

Not having any luck tonight.....but here's a couple pictures you might like.
The first one here is the overnight bag of Buddy Holly's that survived the wreckage with everything inside.




The second one here is a pic of Waylon Jennings and Buddy in one of those photo booths taken Jan. 20, 1959 in NYC. Not sure who's hand is giving the finger, though.

[Tornillo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92AdBbmhRq8

Gruesome watch at your own risk. Pictures of Buddy & the rest.

Ah...it's been taken down. Did anyone save it?

[jeftis]

What was it?

[Alanwench]

Not having any luck tonight.....but here's a couple pictures you might like.
The first one here is the overnight bag of Buddy Holly's that survived the wreckage with everything inside.




The second one here is a pic of Waylon Jennings and Buddy in one of those photo booths taken Jan. 20, 1959 in NYC. Not sure who's hand is giving the finger, though.

Thanks, Gary. Those are great additions to the thread. I love the pic of Waylon and Buddy and I'm guessing it's Buddy giving the finger since you can see Waylon's hand in the pic.

[Alanwench]

Ah...it's been taken down. Did anyone save it?

I hope someone saved it. The death hag in me is very curious.

[james1977]

You know.,I thought of this thread off and on all day. I realized that the Music didn't die for me when he was killed.

He was an entertainer, but not the only one, and by some, not even considered the best.

Do you ever wonder if the plane crash made them more famous than they would have been if they had lived?

So many of our good musicians have been unexpectedly killed. Why do we focus on BH more than we do the others?

Could it be because he was promoted more after death? Did we have a Jim Croce movie? What about an Otis Redding movie?

I was just wondering.......

Buddy Holly wrote the book. Practically invented the whole idiom of rock and roll. Singing rockers, ballads, children songs, wild party songs. The Beatles,The Rolling Stones,The Hollies,etc. Practically owe their whole sound to the master Buddy Holly, he really was legendary.The Big Bopper was a crafty entertainer. Chantilly Lace, a classic.Would still be. Ritchie Valens did have an influence and of course would have done much more. Why did they have to get on that cheap g--d--- plane anyway? Of course Buddy is one of the best.Gave countless young boys inspiration to go out and go for it.Even if they wore glasses and weren't considered heart throbs. Rock And Roll owes him greatly. Johnny Ace,Buddy Holly,Chuck Berry,Fats Domino,Elvis Presley,Little Richard,Jerry Lee,wrote the whole book.Everything else is just variations. Rap or Hip Hop,that crud doesn't even count as Rock And Roll. You can say it is derived from old Blues or something. Buddy Holly,yes,he was one of the best.That is noted.

[ShockDoc]

I've never seen that pic (w/ the finger). Thanks for posting! I've seen what I guess is the same session w/ his tongue sticking out. What a crack-up.

[nancy07]

Has anyone read the new Everyday book? I've heard mixed reviews, but wanted to know from those who are Holly fans.

[Gary]

Never heard of it, now I have to look into it. Thanks for letting me know!

[Pamebabby]

Does anyone know if there are any more crash scene photos floating around? I never thought the ones I've seen were very clear, and can't tell who is who. There is just a crashed plane, and 1 or 2 bodies, but you can't see a face or distinguish which is which. Also, any in color? That would be better than the black and white. Thanks in advance!!

[Gary]

There were only a handfull of color shots taken, the other 20+ were in b&w. No close-ups of the faces were ever taken. Look above at the photo Jobes posted (plane and Ritchie) and that's about as close of a body picture they took. As much of a Holly nut as I am, I STILL want to see the same things you do, but it just isn't going to happen.

[John carpenter]

Another Crash pic

[nancy07]

Hopefully this link works. It's a link to the book I was referencing before. It called "Everyday: Getting Closer to Buddy Holly" by Spencer Leigh.

http://www.amazon.com/Everyday-Getti...8723601&sr=8-2

[Pamebabby]

Thanks, guys. Had this happened in more up to date times, there'd be more than we want to see. Just the quality of the pics are so bad. We needed a Death Hag there!!

[SassyMonkey719]

I took a walk today on the trail behind my house. The trail takes me right passed the Riverside Ballroom. As i was walking around the building i was thinking. It just boggles my mind that the Buddy Holly spent one of his last days there. His busses were parked in that parking lot. That is amazing to me. its sad that i bet alot of people that live here don't realize that. The Riverside is right on main street, and thousands of people drive passed it everyday, and don't understand its history.

I took some pictures of the backside of the building. I wonder if they loaded their equiptment from back there? or if they just came through the front door?

[Alanwench]

If I remember correctly from things I've read, was Buddy's brain eviscerated from impact with the ground?

[Pamebabby]

If I remember correctly from things I've read, was Buddy's brain eviscerated from impact with the ground?

Sorry, I'd like to see them on the slab. And are autopsy reports around? I never saw any...

[Gary]

I seem to recall that when Buddy's and Ritchie's bodies were picked up off the ground that the brains did fall out.
Many years ago, I had a chance to get copies of the bodies on the slabs but I turned it down. I didn't want to remember the guys that way. The guy who had them described them to me in very little detail but it was enough for me to say "No thanks". I wish I did get them now! Even the guy who had them doesn't have them anymore because, well, let's just say he was "followed"........
Go here to see the coroner's reports on the four (make sure you check page two for body descriptions), death certificates, and other things:
http://data.desmoinesregister.com/holly/documents.php

[Alanwench]

I seem to recall that when Buddy's and Ritchie's bodies were picked up off the ground that the brains did fall out.
Many years ago, I had a chance to get copies of the bodies on the slabs but I turned it down. I didn't want to remember the guys that way. The guy who had them described them to me in very little detail but it was enough for me to say "No thanks". I wish I did get them now! Even the guy who had them doesn't have them anymore because, well, let's just say he was "followed"........
Go here to see the coroner's reports on the four (make sure you check page two for body descriptions), death certificates, and other things:
http://data.desmoinesregister.com/holly/documents.php

Thanks, Gary.

[Gary]

You're welcome.

[Pamebabby]

Thanks Gary, you're a doll!

[Gary]

Aw shucks..........thanks and you're welcome, Pamebabby!

[onkster]

I heard that some of the color crash pix were actually shot in stereoscopic 3d also. Flat versions of a couple of the color shots were posted on the web several years ago, but haven't seen them since. People weren't supposed to download them, according to the poster, but I'm sure many a finger hit the 'save as'...

Somebody needs to create a full gallery of these somewhere!

And hey...did any more of the Surf concert photos ever turn up?

[Gary]

There's about a dozen TOTAL Surf photos that have turned up from Feb. 2, 1959. Seven or eight of them (I forget) are now on display at the Surf on the right hand wall as soon as you walk in the doors. They have been enlarged and framed and look GREAT! Those pictures were taken by Mary Gerber.
The other 5 or so were taken by a guy by the name of Richard (forgot last name) from farther back from the stage and don't look as good. He has yet to copy them for anybody. For a while he had the last photos ever (and he knew it) so he only showed them on special occasions at the Surf. Since Mary's photos have turned up, Richard's photos don't have the same charm anymore. I am hoping someday SOON that Mary's photos will become available. One picture shows Dion and Frankie Sardo at the bar at the back of the Surf drinking Pepsi's. Another picture shows Buddy singing with Waylon on bass, Tommy Allsup on guitar and Belmont Carlo Mastrangelo on drums. Still another picture shows Dion & The Belmonts performing with Waylon on bass and Buddy Holly on drums. I think there's one of Frankie Sardo performing, one of Bopper, but I don't recall any of Ritchie performing. Mary had a big crush on Ritchie so she was probably too busy watching him instead of taking pictures. I do believe Richard had a couple of Ritchie performing and the others, too, but no Bopper. I'd like to see all of these again and take better notes!

[stinkythejokedog]

Just got Peggy Sue's autobiography...I like it...

[Gary]

I like it, too. A few people are pretty critical about it, but the thing is, she never claimed to be a "writer". She put the book together from the diary she kept and with some professional help. Maria threatened to sue Peggy, but nothing ever came of it....probably because Maria couldn't prove anything against what Peggy wrote. A threat was all it was and Peggy Sue didn't back down.

[stinkythejokedog]

I like it, too. A few people are pretty critical about it, but the thing is, she never claimed to be a "writer". She put the book together from the diary she kept and with some professional help. Maria threatened to sue Peggy, but nothing ever came of it....probably because Maria couldn't prove anything against what Peggy wrote. A threat was all it was and Peggy Sue didn't back down.

It was a 1st addition...she signed it with a personal note...

[Gary]

Very nice!

[Kyouya Ohtori Ouran Host]

There are about 4 or 5 pictures of the crash that are pretty widely circulated, but this is the first time that I have seen this one:



That's apparently Buddy, but could also very well be Ritchie. Can any of the Holly fanatics confirm this?

Looks like Ritchie to me (dark coat, not bright). And where did you find this, by the way?

[Linnythepooh]

That is definately Richie Valens. In the coroners rapport it is stated that Buddy was wearing a yellow (or light coloured) coat.

[Jobes]

Looks like Ritchie to me (dark coat, not bright). And where did you find this, by the way?

Just a Google image search for crash photos.