The U.S. Economy

[Dying Breath]

Yep.. I got it for $1.93 this morning

[D3LIVIÃ?N]

Yep.. I got it for $1.93 this morning

Wow, that's really good!

Nice rally on Wallstreet today, we can only hope for more days like today.

[FloridaDeathHag]

Up 900 points!! We're back in business!!!

I got my 401(k) statement for third quarter, "only" down 19%, it could have been worse.

[Noelle Page]

I just heard a quick ABC News radio report about today's rally....the first line was "One of the signs of a bad economy is wild swings," and the news was all negative from there on in.

Now that may be true, but why shit on gains so eagerly? (got my suspicions.)

[FloridaDeathHag]

It's just muckraking by the press because they want to shit all over the economy to help their guy Obama. Trust me, a rally like this after Obama is in office will have very different headlines. "Economy gains 10% back of historic losses, on road to long-term recovery."

Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with Obama and still may vote for him (I'm still undecided) but the press except Fox is in love with him and will do anything to get him elected.

[BooMom]

Question for those in the know - how much of these swings can/could be attributed to market correction? I did a search and the market took from 1896 to 1991 to even break 3000 - and from there it took another 4 yrs to hit 4000.

Just a thought I had, I've been know to be waaaay off base before.

[Jack-O-Lantern]

I just heard a quick ABC News radio report about today's rally....the first line was "One of the signs of a bad economy is wild swings," and the news was all negative from there on in.

Now that may be true, but why shit on gains so eagerly? (got my suspicions.)

It's just muckraking by the press because they want to shit all over the economy to help their guy Obama. Trust me, a rally like this after Obama is in office will have very different headlines. "Economy gains 10% back of historic losses, on road to long-term recovery."

Don't get me wrong, I'm fine with Obama and still may vote for him (I'm still undecided) but the press except Fox is in love with him and will do anything to get him elected.

I'm with you ladies, methinks something is rotten... YES the market is volatile, but that has been the case for weeks. Why on earth would the 'pundits' cluck their tongues over a 900-point gain, volatility notwithstanding, if not to push a political agenda?
The American press gets dirtier and less trustworthy by the day, I don't believe a word they say anymore.

[Noelle Page]

Just looking at the news, everybody's lining up for a bailout now. Sigh.

(OT, just also saw the Governor of Texas on the news, my GOD he's hot, I had no idea!)

So, are you guys belt tightening? In anticipation of a worsening economy and higher taxes, we have let some help go and dropped a number of extras. Hate to do it, but want to be prepared.

[neilmpenny]

Up 900 points!! We're back in business!!!

I got my 401(k) statement for third quarter, "only" down 19%, it could have been worse.

Dont get too cocky about any apparrent market rise. The reality is that the full effects have not filtered through to the real economy. Any apparent market rise now is fleeting.

[Noelle Page]

Other things.....far fewer dinners out, no movies, no projects or vacations planned. I don't mind letting go of these things at all, but I do feel very bad for the businesses hurt by the cutbacks I sense many families are making.

Starbucks' profits, I read, are down 97 percent. Guess for the hipsters and housewives, the $5 daily java was one of the first things to go.

[Forever-27]

Things seem to be just as bad on a state level. The California Unemployment Insurance fund is running dry. Seems it will run out for us all by 2009. Just the thing I want to read about ...


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...EDUS140CTB.DTL

[FloridaDeathHag]

Dont get too cocky about any apparrent market rise. The reality is that the full effects have not filtered through to the real economy. Any apparent market rise now is fleeting.

Tell me about it, the one statement I get monthly on a different investment, and it's still going down, down, down. But I'm buying more shares each transaction, so maybe 10 years down the line I make a killing when it comes back! I have to stay positive, what else is there to do?

My major regret was caving in and buying a car in July of 2007, if I had waited, I could get such the bargain now.

[Guest]

Christmas is looking a bit grim for my family

My measly IRA has shrunk to about nothing

My unemployed son cannot find a job

I had to buy my winter clothes at a thrift store

====================================

But, I do have a lot to be grateful for - so I try to focus on that, instead!

[endsleigh03]

See AIG is still at it with their resort 'training'

The CEO needs to be hung. Saw him in a news short today saying these getaways are necessary for training, etc.

Why not use office space you already have for training? Oh, thats right, no massages or beaches or chocolate strawberries or anything at a home office.

Something needs to be done about AIG. They are spitting right in the faces of the American people.

[Guest]

See AIG is still at it with their resort 'training'

The CEO needs to be hung. Saw him in a news short today saying these getaways are necessary for training, etc.

Why not use office space you already have for training? Oh, thats right, no massages or beaches or chocolate strawberries or anything at a home office.

Something needs to be done about AIG. They are spitting right in the faces of the American people.

I saw that too. The CEO satyed in a private condo type thing while there. Must be nice.

The reporter that did the story folowed them to the airport. They were boarding via 1st class.
I've never flown 1st class.

[endsleigh03]

I saw that too. The CEO satyed in a private condo type thing while there. Must be nice.

The reporter that did the story folowed them to the airport. They were boarding via 1st class.
I've never flown 1st class.

They have been too fat (financially) for too long. It becomes a way of life.
Somebody, I can't remember who, is asking for his resignation and said 'They just don't get it' (<-AIG)
And thats what it comes down to, they really don't.
Bail their sorry azzes out and look how they are behaving.

[lil_zino]

Unfortunately, we keep getting worse in my area. My husband works in a factory that has been laying off left and right. A lot of the companies they had contracts with are filing for bankruptcy. Sales are crazy low at my job. A lot of my customers told me they aren't doing Xmas this year.

We will. But, I'm gonna do homemade gifts this year instead. Soup mixes in a jar, my awesome baked goodies, candles and the like. Much cheaper and way more meaningful.

Oh and I've seen thrift store shopping mentioned. I've been shopping at Goodwills for years. The last few trips, I noticed how crowded these stores were. Much more than before.

[Noelle Page]

Goodwill is terrific, I've gotten so many collectibles and functional furniture items there over the years. I believe I've read they are a pretty well-run company, too. Well, good for them, I'm sure the bad economy will have a silver lining for them.

Thrift is the new black!

[W Axl Rose]

I just dropped 100k on BA. Free tip to anyone else with some money to burn. Invest if you can and wait 3 years. You'll only owe me a pint.

Fluctuations current to give an idea of market volatility (sample; the last two weeks) between +£7.5k and +£35K per £100k for those who're monitoring the market.

Sit tight. There's a lot more to come.

[D3LIVIÃ?N]

Fluctuations current to give an idea of market volatility (sample; the last two weeks) between +£7.5k and +£35K per £100k for those who're monitoring the market.

Sit tight. There's a lot more to come.

Absolutely there is a lot more to come IMO, are we heading towards a capitulation point with a massive 1 day market crash? What will be the next industry or sector to crash and burn? I think the retail and credit card industry is on its way to that happening in the next 3-6 months. But what's after that?

Market down -400 today, up +200 tomorrow and down again Friday, Happy November fellow investors!

[neilmpenny]

I went on holiday last Thursday and we had 120 employees, came back yesterday and we have 67 employees. Office is a ghost town.

[Jack-O-Lantern]

Other things.....far fewer dinners out, no movies, no projects or vacations planned. I don't mind letting go of these things at all, but I do feel very bad for the businesses hurt by the cutbacks I sense many families are making.

Starbucks' profits, I read, are down 97 percent. Guess for the hipsters and housewives, the $5 daily java was one of the first things to go.

--No eating out (unless it's at a cheap tacqueria or something--even then, only occasionally)

--Housekeeper gone (she told me I was the last, she now has NO customers)

--Vacation cancelled, no trips planned at all

--no live theatre or movies at all

--only buy food that's on sale

--no new furniture, electronics, etc.

--Christmas? we'll be having a 'Bob Cratchit' this year, celebrating the true meaning and letting the presents go

[Noelle Page]

....downgrade to most basic cable

....clip coupons (love doing that, anyway)

....wash own car

....bye bye beauty salon, hello Supercuts!

....work more (this one is kinda key)

....library for books (seldom have the desire to keep a book once finished anyway).

....ride bike for exercise and short trips (although gas is wonderfully lower right now)

[lil_zino]

....bye bye beauty salon, hello Supercuts!

Depending on what you want done, the local beauty school can be awesome. Very good prices. Plus, I've always gotten a good job done-their grade depends on it.

[Aries65]

..

....bye bye beauty salon, hello Supercuts!

I've always gone to Supercuts. I don't mind paying $13.95 for a haircut!

[W Axl Rose]

I went on holiday last Thursday and we had 120 employees, came back yesterday and we have 67 employees. Office is a ghost town.

You'll be ok long term though?



From BBC News...

..."Telecoms giant BT says it expects to have cut 10,000 jobs by the end of March next year.
The cuts will mainly affect agency and contract staff, including offshore workers, the company said.


BT said it had already cut 4,000 jobs, with a further 6,000 to go by March from its global workforce of 160,000.


News of the cost cuts sent BT shares up 12% in early trade. The company said the job losses were not a "direct result" of the economic downturn.
"This is a reflection of the fact we have to become leaner," BT chief executive Ian Livingston told the BBC."

[neilmpenny]

You'll be ok long term though?



From BBC News...

..."Telecoms giant BT says it expects to have cut 10,000 jobs by the end of March next year.
The cuts will mainly affect agency and contract staff, including offshore workers, the company said.


BT said it had already cut 4,000 jobs, with a further 6,000 to go by March from its global workforce of 160,000.


News of the cost cuts sent BT shares up 12% in early trade. The company said the job losses were not a "direct result" of the economic downturn.
"This is a reflection of the fact we have to become leaner," BT chief executive Ian Livingston told the BBC."

Probably till after Chinese New Year (end of February) then the company will re-assess I expect. In the interim I am going lickety split setting up a commercial kitchen design company. If it works then all will be fine. I just feel that sitting back waiting for an opportunity is probably futile, best to make my own.

Thanks for asking mate.

[TheMysterian]

I went on holiday last Thursday and we had 120 employees, came back yesterday and we have 67 employees. Office is a ghost town.

What kind of effect will that have on you Neil? It seems like all Global economies are in trouble,oil prices are at $56.52 per barrell today and Wall street doesn't seem any better.

[neilmpenny]

What kind of effect will that have on you Neil? It seems like all Global economies are in trouble,oil prices are at $56.52 per barrell today and Wall street doesn't seem any better.

A few posts ago I mentioned that the effect on the so called 'real economy' is yet to kick in. I think it is starting to bite now.

As you are probably aware, I work for an architectural practice. In the past few weeks a good deal of our projects in the UAE, China, India etc have gone on hold. Generally if the construction of the tower is out of the ground work is continuing. However, those structures that are in the excavation stage have been put on hold. The primary reason for this is that the expected sale price on apartments has dropped considerably so the developers are re-assessing their financial position.

The construction industry, as you would be aware, is like the car industry being that there is a plethora of associated support companies who are plugged in. The moment that one of these industries falters then it trickles down.... the multiplier effect.

The first stage was the banks not lending money to each other. It trickled down to banks not lending to companies who want to use it for their various business activities. It has progressed to the point that money is available, but the cost of that money is too prohibitive.

So companies are contracting which translates to layoffs. This is going to get nasty.

[neilmpenny]

BTW, there has been a lot of talk about GM, Ford, Chrysler etc looking for a Government handout. I learned today that 1 in 10 people employed in America is in or related to the Automotive industry. Food for thought.

[Guest]

Unfortunatley I can't work any more hours at my job. I've been looking for a part-time job to help out for Christmas, but there is nothing for me. No-one is hiring in this area.

The Thrift store I go to is called 2nd Avenue and they have really nice stuff for super cheap. All "new" clothes are coming from there now (I got my son some shirts from there, took off the tags and told him I got them at the mall ~ he loves 'em, but would have thrown them away if he knew they came from a thrift store!!!!).

Going out to eat anymore is definitely out for us, and our meals are less "gourmet" ~ last nite it was meatloaf that is leftover for dinner again 2nite. Work lunches for me is now ramen noodles: 20 cents a pack!

The "other" works in construction ~ they already laid off some people at his work. I'm very worried about this coming winter for him. We live in the Northeast, and between the weather and slowdowns, I'm getting scared.

Then I hear my asshole landlord bragging that because so many people are losing there homes and are looking to rent, he can raise rents because apartments are becoming scarce!!!!!

[endsleigh03]

Bump.

Things aren't exactly repairing themselves.

[octobersky]

I consider myself blessed right now because I get SSDI. So I know I will have income coming in.
Richmond has not been hit hard at all. The biggest layoffs we have had was at Circuit City corporate, but that is because they are filing bankruptcy.

[Forever-27]

Its been estamated that by 2019 social security will be gone. They keep cutting into it. Im sure , me being 37 wont be able to recieve it by the time im 65 years old.

Some areas are hot harder by the meltdown then others. For thoes of us with no college degree of some sort, we like myself will struggle. Since I hate school, im going to buy a spanish language course. More and more I think ill be needing it to not only get around but to make myself somewhat useful in the job hunt.

[neilmpenny]

Its been estamated that by 2019 social security will be gone. They keep cutting into it. Im sure , me being 37 wont be able to recieve it by the time im 65 years old.

Some areas are hot harder by the meltdown then others. For thoes of us with no college degree of some sort, we like myself will struggle. Since I hate school, im going to buy a spanish language course. More and more I think ill be needing it to not only get around but to make myself somewhat useful in the job hunt.

You might want to get some new skill to go with your new language.

[Aries65]

For those of us with no college degree of some sort, we like myself will struggle.

Not quite true. A lot of college grads are struggling to find jobs with their degrees. Actually if you have a skill, you can do alright. People will always need plumbing, air conditioning and heating, their hair cut, car repaired and other things.

People who do jobs that get their hands dirty, may do okay.

[Sam]

Its been estamated that by 2019 social security will be gone. They keep cutting into it. Im sure , me being 37 wont be able to recieve it by the time im 65 years old.

Some areas are hot harder by the meltdown then others. For thoes of us with no college degree of some sort, we like myself will struggle. Since I hate school, im going to buy a spanish language course. More and more I think ill be needing it to not only get around but to make myself somewhat useful in the job hunt.

That REALLY bothers me, but what can you do? 2017 is the first year I believe I will be eligible for Social Security.
I guess I'll have to work until the day I die, or become a street person.

[King Tut]

Don't sweat it sheeple. Obama to the rescue. The solution will be govt control of everything. I gots my Crazy Straw all ready to go for the Kool Aid. Halcyon days will be here again by Feb 1 ...2031.

[Forever-27]

I dont think social security will go away, in the end they will just take from somewhere else to supliment the depleted social security fund. Yea, sure obama and Pelosi to the rescue .......

[LaynesGirl]

BTW, there has been a lot of talk about GM, Ford, Chrysler etc looking for a Government handout. I learned today that 1 in 10 people employed in America is in or related to the Automotive industry. Food for thought.

You can bet your ass on that! I live in Michigan so of course we will suffer the hardest and first and foremost but the ripple effect WILL happen and EVERY STATE will suffer....suffer bad. This keeps me awake at night, honestly. I have been laid off from my job for 9 months now and cannot find a job ANYWHERE. Almost everyone I know including my family work in the automotive industry.

THIS IS SO SCARY!!!! Happy F'ing Holidays right???? On another grim note... You can bet that the suicide rate is going to SKY ROCKET this holiday season! I know that is an ugly thought.... But I bet my hands on it.

[Forever-27]

Ahh the great state of Michigan .... Michigans economy has taken one of the great economic blows which has largely gone unmentioned by the media. The states jobles rate has been one of the highest in the country for years. I really feel for thoes people. I have friends in kalamazoon and Sterling Heights. Jennifer Granholm has been moreso like the typical vote getter there then any other politican ive ever seen and believe me, here in California weve seen quite a few. Saying she will create more jobs and commerace, all the while choking off the businesses with higher and higher taxes during her admistration. What she has done to Michigan obama will do to the rest of the country only 10 times worse. Only in america can someone ruin a states economy then join the presidents economic advisory team. I feel for you people in Michigan. California is on the very same road to ruin

[endsleigh03]

You can bet your ass on that! I live in Michigan so of course we will suffer the hardest and first and foremost but the ripple effect WILL happen and EVERY STATE will suffer....suffer bad. This keeps me awake at night, honestly. I have been laid off from my job for 9 months now and cannot find a job ANYWHERE. Almost everyone I know including my family work in the automotive industry.

THIS IS SO SCARY!!!! Happy F'ing Holidays right???? On another grim note... You can bet that the suicide rate is going to SKY ROCKET this holiday season! I know that is an ugly thought.... But I bet my hands on it.

I keep hoping for a turnaround for Michigan and all the people there.
It's a nightmare.

[endsleigh03]

Ahh the great state of Michigan .... Michigans economy has taken one of the great economic blows which has largely gone unmentioned by the media. The states jobles rate has been one of the highest in the country for years. I really feel for thoes people. I have friends in kalamazoon and Sterling Heights. Jennifer Granholm has been moreso like the typical vote getter there then any other politican ive ever seen and believe me, here in California weve seen quite a few. Saying she will create more jobs and commerace, all the while choking off the businesses with higher and higher taxes during her admistration. What she has done to Michigan obama will do to the rest of the country only 10 times worse. Only in america can someone ruin a states economy then join the presidents economic advisory team. I feel for you people in Michigan. California is on the very same road to ruin

No offense Forever, but there is barely any 10 times worse anything left after what the Bush admin has done.
We are teetering on collapse and Obama had nothing to do with that. Nothing.
Can Obama repair any of this disaster? We will see.
It's a bit like sending a soldier into full battle with no bullets in his gun.
At this point, there isn't alot to work with.

[Aries65]

We are teetering on collapse and Obama had nothing to do with that. Nothing. Can Obama repair any of this disaster? We will see.
It's a bit like sending a soldier into full battle with no bullets in his gun.
At this point, there isn't a lot to work with.

But then again, if Obama doesn't get anything fixed in the next 4 years, he'll be blamed and end up being a one-term president.

[endsleigh03]

Bump.

[D3LIVIÃ?N]

The stock market tumbled again today after the bailout announcement.

Anyone want to speculate on anything with me here?

Attachment 12467

[neilmpenny]

The stock market tumbled again today after the bailout announcement.

Anyone want to speculate on anything with me here?

Attachment 12467

Speculate away.......

[SheBoss]

Well, Obama just signed the 787 mil Stimulus Package. How do we all feel about this? Is it a good or bad thing?

[D3LIVIÃ?N]

I feel like it's a mixture of both good and bad, only time will really tell though. If you actually read the last stimulus bail out that Bush signed, you could clearly see some ridiculous pork barrel spending going on there. You can be sure that as soon as it's available I will be reading this one as well.

I definitely think this one is needed more than any of them before, these times are extraordinarily tough.

[SheBoss]

I don't know, Delivan. The last "revision" I read, this one was pretty over-porked. However, it was at almost 900 bil at that time. Seems like a bunch of something was cut. Reserving judgement until I read it.