Thank you for the spread sheet dionyzus. Great work.
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Thank you for the spread sheet dionyzus. Great work.
I wanted to comment on something I read in the witness statements that I found very unsettling.i can't say (be cuz can't remember) who said it but it was that Steve Mancini who was a bouncer as well as band member of Fathead was pushing people back into the club in an attempt to get his wife Andrea (ticket girl) out. Later I read about the pile of bodies found right there near the ticket booth..I'm sure these were in that crowd that he pushed back.how sad
I have never heard that before. Didn't Steve make it to the ticket booth and grabbed a fire extinguisher to try to head back toward the stage? I'm not doubting you at all, but that just isn't anything I had ever heard before. It seems odd for a witness to state that considering Andrea and Steve both died in the fire. If you run across it again in the statements, could you please post a link so I can read it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Speck
That is interesting, but like you said, needs a source!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mammy
I will try and find it again, but I know for a fact that it was in one of the Witness Statements. It was only in one. I have read at least half of them!Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy
I hope you don't think I was doubting you at all, I really wasn't. I had just never heard that before and it shocked me to see it. Everything I have ever read about him was positive, but that's pretty common when speaking of someone who died tragically when they were young. I've read a lot of the witness statements, but not all of them, and I would really like to read that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Speck
I think I've read all the witness statements and don't remember that one. If you can remember anything about it, I can go look again. I always miss something. I do remember someone talking about trying to go against the flow, but got swept out with the crowd.
Ok, the witnesses who mentioned this about Steve Mancini were a husband and wife, Todd King and Teresa King-O'Toole, who made it out the front door together. They claim that Mancini was pushing the crowd back apparently to get to his wife Andrea, but they were still able to push by him. Their witness statements are written by hand so to save everyone some eye strain, here are the pertinent statements as I could make them out:Quote:
Originally Posted by Speck
Teresa King-O'Toole:
..I said "that is fire" we have to go. We turned to leave. I didn't heard [sic] fire alarms at this point. We wanted to get out door. I didn't know why we were not moving. People in front of me were saying "let us out", "we have to get out now", "let us go". I saw a tall man in front of ticket booth. He looked like he was holding people back. I remember the woman in ticket booth (blond hair). I wanted to start pushing on the people in front of me. I didn't have to because we all started moving. To get out you need to go past ticket booth - narrow area. I heard the fire alarm for the first time just as we started moving.
Todd King:
First statement:
Bouncer Mancini pushing people trying to get wife from behind ticket booth. People couldn't go by table, Mancini pushing people back inward, fire alarm not heard till smoke filled room & could not see.
Second statement:
When I first looked back stage & ceiling fully engulfed and smoke already to us. Looked ahead where ticket counter and bouncer with back turned to crowd. When we got to front of counter bouncer had turned. Pushed my wife and she ended up behind us in crowd pulled by her belt back in front of me. When I turned to grab her I noticed lights flickering [?] near us but couldn't see stage any longer. Door was completely jammed and had to push everyone forward to get outside. When we got to ramp stools & people coming out windows to our right. Only a couple of people came out behind us.
Newspaper excerpt:
And a third patron, Todd King, 33, of Framingham said the bouncer guarding the front entrance saw a throng of people coming at him and probably panicked. "First he shoved my wife and then he pushed me back," a burly King said. "Then I pushed forward and anyone who was stuck in front of us, I shoved out the door."
Desperate actions during a desperate time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoBorn
I think the same thing. I would take others out to get to my fiance. Sounds awful, but it's how I feel.
I was thinking that, as well. I am not saying that any of the actions are correct, but I could see Mr. Mancini seeing his wife stuck behind that desk and trying to get at her. I'm sure that there was a lot of pushing going on. Both died in the fire. Maybe Mr. Mancini realized that Andrea could not get out and decided to stay with her. I guess that we will never know for sure.
If they would have just cut out that tight vestibule at the door the only tragedy would be the club burning down. People would have been able to get out quicker and would have not had a bottleneck going on.
Thank you for posting this. It does sound like it was done in desperation as opposed to the other bouncers who kept people from using the stage door to escape.Quote:
Originally Posted by dionyzus
Dude, that may have required them to shell out a few bucks which we know they are morally opposed to. Cheap bastards!
It undoubtedly was done in desperation. So many of the witness statements say just how fast it all happened.it must have felt so unreal! Watching the video seems surreal...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mammy
such a tragedy. I will never quite understand why the fire Marshall never did time.
Man the fire Marshall should have stepped all on the Derdarian brother's dicks when it comes to properly fireproofing and making exits for mass exodus.
Cut the vestibule out. Removal of rails. Not allowing a tour bus to take up that much space in the parking lot where it prevents fire hoses from being hooked up, seriously that bus should have been across the street or even left at the Hotel.
Even from the outside looking in like we are, it is amazing to see the videos and know how fast everything happened. I can't even imagine what it must have been like for the people who were actually there at the time. They must have been so scared and in a panic to escape and also wanted to make sure their loved ones made it out, too. Steve Mancini was an only child and he and Andrea lived with Steve's parents. His parent's entire world changed that night, just as many others. It's hard to think about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Speck
I think the fire marshal benefited from being a member of the "good old boys" network. There was undoubtedly money passing hands before and after this fire, which (IMO) is why the plea agreements were accepted for the Derderians instead of going to trial. He's now living on a nice big pension. If he has any conscience at all, which I doubt, I hope he is haunted by this tragedy.
TheDude, I'm sure Jack Russell is glad the tour bus was right there that night. It sure provided him a handy hiding spot. :mad:
I will never understand the Fire Marshall coming off clean. I guess that is going to be another injustice that none of us can solve. He didn't even have the money to buy himself out of it. If he had fallen though the town honchos would have also. We are usually so eager to stick a guy's head on a pike like this one. He got very lucky. The bad thing is I have to look up his name every time I talk about him. I don't know why he doesn't stick with me. I guess because we refer to him as the Fire Marshall.
Plus, he doesn't have a nickname like Scott V. the prick.
I would love to have been the fly on the wall when the Fire Marshall and the Brothers Derdarian had an initial walkthrough. It would be like witnessing great moments in time but the complete opposite just and full of boobery and complete asshatery, I could imagine these two assholes with money signs in their eyes.
Foam on the walls, and on the door that wasn't supposed to be there anyways! How in the hell did that get past "Rocky" and how did it get past the courts? If I remember right, Larocque used that nickname.
I believe "Rocky" didn't even do a full inspection of the building...to me it seems as if he just pencil whipped the inspection forms...And lets not forget the increase to the occupancy level, which I believe was increased by claiming the kitchen as a game room when in fact it wasn't..I hope everyone's having a great summer...TJ
Great to see you here! I totally agree with you. I believe Rocky showed up to have his palms greased, nothing more or nothing less. There's no way he could have missed seeing that crunchy old foam if he had done any real inspection at all and likely numerous other violations if he cared about doing his job right.Quote:
Originally Posted by tjh960
Hi Mammy..I thought I read somewhere he filed for disability soon after the fire..and he gets a pension,and he owns a multi-unit apartment complex as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mammy
I read that, too. He got immunity from prosecution and a nice big pension. It's sickening.Quote:
Originally Posted by tjh960
But hey, he made them take the door down right??? Ace inspecting there Rocky. No wait, that was the previous inspector. They just started taking it down when he came.
Yeah, and who needs pesky things like fire extinguishers and well lit exits and front doors that open outward instead of inward?:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by SheeBee
I was going to take some pics of the Station site on my vacation, but honestly there is not anything to see anymore. The lot is fenced in and over grown and all the makeshift memorials are gone. Just some signs on the fences announcing the building of the memorial.
I've seen it mentioned a few times on Facebook by survivors and victim's families about how bare and depressing the site is since there is absolutely nothing there now. I guess it feels like their loved ones have been forgotten even though that isn't true. I wish the memorial would be built soon, but I know it will be a while since it is so expensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by jsnerch
Last week a new radio station had signed on the air in Charleston, West Virginia called 107.3 Tailgate..."party songs for party people". Here is a list of tunes from a sample hour just after the debut. Got this from radio insight..one of the many radio business websites that are out there. Here is a link to this...look who was at number 3...
http://radioinsight.com/blog/headlin...charleston-wv/
I was reading in "Killer Show" how Andrea Mancini's husband tried to get a fire extinguisher from her. He and another relative(?) named Mancini rushed toward the fire. All three Mancinis were killed in the fire. I wonder if that is what the witness was referring to when he and his wife said that Mr. Mancini was rushing towards Andrea. I wonder if he was trying to get people out of the way to get to the fire extinguisher?
I think it is definitely as possibility. Keith is the other Mancini who you referred to. He and Steven were cousins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelle1966
Reading Todd King's statement where he mentions the table in the front hallway, I remembered seeing a mention of this table on the original message board. I learned more about why the table was there in the witness statements.
Charlene Prudhomme said: "I held the door [in the front hallway] open... then someone came with a small table into the hallway and he said 'here, I'll hold it with this, go'. But the table scared me, because people were already moving the table and it was hitting me in the back of the legs and I knew the table was just bad." Charlene's husband Al, who exited through the stage door, entered the front doors to pull Charlene outside. He knew how bad the fire was.
Todd King added "Table totally cut down on foot traffic, two people could go by at same time."
Brian Butler (the cameraman) said "As we got... through the first interior door and we got into the small hallway that led to the second exterior door, the last door to get out of, I noticed... a table on the left in that doorway and as I went by the table, my right hand was holding the camera backwards... and I grabbed the table with my left hand and spun it out the door with me so that it would get out of the way of other people trying to get out."
First of all, big thanks to dion for keeping me posted on all the goings on here on our little thread while I'm away. He's also kicking ass with the google page. :) I'm able to jump back and forth from RL to 'net stuff, just not as much as I'd like, so.....
To Rail Dawg: Thanks for the info on the dat. That's kind of become a holy grail of evidence for us. Personally, it's just nice to know someone on here has heard it before. As the others have said, of course we don't want you to get in trouble for talking about it, but thanks for telling us what you can. You were wondering if anyone on here was there that night, and tj would be the closest. He showed up well after the fire started (we even have a pic of him on the old thread in the parking lot). He has a wealth of info on the building as he was a regular there.
One thing I've noticed when going over the witness statements (I may finish them one of these days ;)) is the enormous amount of people that were crammed in certain areas of the building. If anyone has watched the footage on the google page of the walkthrough done the night of the comedy show, while the club was pretty much empty, it's even harder to believe how many people were in there the night of the fire. So many people say they stood near the soundboard area, or were in the atrium, etc. I can't wrap my head around it sometimes.
Re: Jack Russell touring--- he seems to perform mainly at fairs and stuff these days. I think I mentioned this on the last thread that he was at an area fair last year. My buddy was there and he spent the evening hanging around with JR after the show...even posted a pic of them together on FB. Then I educated him on the Station...that pic was pulled down in less than an hour!
I've found a copy of the "inside the station nightclub fire" video on an old usb drive I'm hoping to put it on photobucket & share it here if that's ok I don't want to p**s anyone off by just posting it here without asking first.
Here's the link to the full video a word of caution though it's a bit disturbing I don't know where this clip came from or who shot it.
http://s163.photobucket.com/user/nut...ibrary/Station
Nice Mr. Chicken!! This is a good version of the Butler video, actually the preshow video, through the fire starting, stopping just before Butler starts to walk toward the tour bus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Chicken
No worries about sharing, our group already has other videos shared on a common site that we discuss here. I'm uploading yours there as we speak! (In the folder with contents not from the original hard drive.)
Thanks again.
I'm half way through the book "Killer Show" (as recommended by Mammy, great read so far!). Nothing new here, but how fucking enraging to really learn how preventable it all was.
Hey guys 'n' gals :)
Just wanted to pop in and show my face, as far as I can in forum-land.
Every so often I get into this tragedy, I don't know why it hooks me like it does. I'm there again and have been working through Part 1 of this thread and wow - you found a few bits huh? Brilliant research. I'm sure I'll have something to offer once in a while but for now I'm just burrowing through info again :)
The chapter on the Dardarian's really makes me insane.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
Go, with a big sign that says Remember the 100 lost, Remember the Station!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelle1966
Quote:
Originally Posted by pkstracy
This is may have been answered somewhere or sometime before but does anyone know if that is Tracy King that you see pushing people out the front door? Whoever it is is a hero that's for sure.
I think you need to be more specific Speck. Maybe with a screen capture or time stamp from the Butler video. But anyway, Tracy King was reported to have been last seen in the atrium or stage area, not at the front door. According to Killer Show, Tracy King is speculated to have helped toss people out through a broken window or panel in the atrium:Quote:
Originally Posted by Speck
"Other survivors reported being pushed or thrown, unconscious, through a broken atrium window by someone on the inside. Bouncer Tracy King, at six-foot-two and three hundred pounds, is seen onstage in a late photograph by Dan Davidson, silhouetted against the flames. The cheerful giant, who once balanced a canoe on his chin on the David Letterman show, could never have fit through an atrium window himself. Some believe that King threw others out until he was felled by the smoke and heat inside."
im sorry but I don't know how to do either a time stamp or capture. On b.butler's video, there looks to be a heavyset man inside the double doors to the left that is trying to push people out.Quote:
Originally Posted by dionyzus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason
If Mammy recommends it, you know it is great! The video is always chilling.
What part of the video? I will go look also. Can you tell me something the people around them are wearing so I know where to look? Is it before they get to the foyer area?Quote:
Originally Posted by Speck
It's kind of hard to see on my copy of the video. If you can't do a time stamp or capture, could you tell us what the time reads on the video so we can try to take a look? I think I know what part you're talking about, but I'm not 100% sure. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Speck
Around 9:01 on the above download you can see a heavyset guy just inside the double doors. It looks like he is pushing people out. Whatever happened to that list someone here was compiling ID'ing people?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimsonams
I didn't see Tracy King by the door. I could have missed him, but I watched it three times and didn't see him. Sorry I couldn't help.
I'm missing it. I just couldn't see it.
Ok, Speck is talking about the new video posted by Mr. Chicken (link further up this page). Around 9:01 in that video is when Butler zooms in to the front door the second time, from out in the parking lot. At that time I see one or two heavyset gentlemen in the front door pileup who are sitting up. Everyone is trying to get out of course, but the man closest to the front appears to be pushing those in front of him to clear his way out. But obviously it was hard to get anyone unstuck from the pileup at that point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Speck
As for who he is, the front door pileup has been notoriously difficult to ID people. I don't think we've identified many people in it. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't keep trying!
Jay Kingston, the medicolegal scene investigator said: "[In] the office area of the club... One [victim] who was found near an area which appears to be a workshop/storage area appears to be the largest victim, physically, and had to be removed inside a tarpaulin, because he would not fit into a body pouch."
I wonder if this victim was Tracy King.