Brandon was born a female but for a time lived as a man in rural southeast Nebraska. Prosecutors said the 21-year-old was killed in a farmhouse near Humboldt after reporting being raped by Lotter and Nissen.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3629819
This was so horrible, I remember watching the movie about it on tv.
Renowned Death Hag
Why can't people just let people be? To me, changing one's sex is just fixing a birth defect...like a cleft palate. I have many M to F friends and the misery these poor souls go through because they know they are in the wrong body is heartbreaking! Have compassion for people; you NEVER know what they are going though!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]peek-a-boo!!
Renowned Death Hag
I know I may be starting a shitstorm here, but do any of you feel that MAYBE Brandon Teena was never really a "transgender" to begin with, but just a woman "pretending" to be a man so she could snag some of the cute straight girls she wanted to date - knowing that she wouldn't have a chance with them at all - as a lesbian woman?
I mean out in the midwest, it's hard to be an open lesbian and MAYBE Brandon Teena decided to see what she could get away with.
JMO - based on articles, books and stuff I've read and seen on the case.
And I am NOT trying to put down the trasngender lifestyle at all, just something I've sort of wondered and thought about in regards to THIS case...
Renowned Death Hag
That is a good point.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]peek-a-boo!!
I could see that.... at least from the movie, you could get that impression... never read the book though... SOriginally Posted by Aries65
Renowned Death Hag
This loser Nissen also did an interview for Playboy magazine back in 1995. If you can find it, it's the issue with Drew Barrymore on the cover (jan 95).
It's a pretty detailed interview about the case and what went on when Brandon Teena was hanging out with them.
The book "All That She Wanted" by Aphrodite Jones is pretty good. It goes into detail about all the women Brandon was involved with - and was one of the thing sort of led me to the conclusion of why I don't feel she was a "transgender".
Me to..I only saw the movie...I hate that people can't just let people be themselves though...killing people for their sexual preferences seems to happen to often and mainly by people who think they are wrong based on the bible..but uummmm hey the bible says thou shalt not kill...not much of a basis in my opinion...my prayers go out to the survivors of Brandon Teena and Matthew Sheppard and the many others........
BTW great book to read (not about this case) is Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides I think I spelled that right..
i am also from nebraska & followed this case obcessively~ lotter & nissan are horrible backwards monsters~ when teena was raped, the police were so awful to her, i hold them partly responsible for her death, if they would of picked up lotter & nissan, they prolly wouldn't have had the chance to kill her & teena would have made it back to lincoln safely~
[SIZE=4]Sounds to me the guy is just trying to save his buddy...after all he can't be on convicted again.[/SIZE]
I remember when this happened too, I even went up to the grave site. What part of Nebraska were ya from? I'm from Omaha. I hung out alot in Lincoln back in the day just to get out of Omaha.
omaha, my home is technically in bellevue~ i went to the grave site too~ i had to pay my respects~
sad but true. i once found out that someone was raped, and talked them into contacting the authorities. i figured that if the guy had done it once, he would do it again. so instead of whacking this guy like he deserved, i had her call the police. needless to say, they thought she was lying, and he got away without ever being questioned. she contracted HIV from him, and now she has to live wih it everyday. i have known her since high school, and she is gay, but she is a good friend. sometimes, i think women get screwed by the police more than men, even when it comes to gays. a person is a person no matter what. i have no respect for anyone who could do what he did to her. in school, they teach u to tell someone. in real life, i say bust a cap in their ass and jerk them to jesus!!
My heart aches for people who are transgendered (I know that's not the correct term anymore, but I can't remember what it's called now, so I'm sorry if the term offends anyone.) My heart also goes out to gays or lesbians who are picked on for any reason. Transvestites, cross dressers, you name it..........they're all people, otherwise the same as everyone else, and they deserve the same kindness and respect we'd want for ourselves! And what I really don't get is if someone is gay, for example, how is that bothering anyone else? Do you know what I mean?? They're not hurting anyone, FFS! Let them be! Treat them with kindness! Get to know them! Share with them a nice meal, a cup of coffee! You get to know any of these people (and I've personally gotten to know several from each "group,") they are fabulous, wonderful, considerate, talented and thoughtful people. I can't say that for most "straight" people I know! (I hate the term "straight." It implies that something is "crooked" about gays and lesbians, for example. Nothing at all crooked about the ones I know.)
I hope I haven't offended anyone. Just wanted to add my two cents.
that is awful what happened to your friend~
the falls city humbodlt authorites treated teena/brandon as if she was a freak show, i was so pissed when A & E did the special on her & you could hear the way she was questioned about the rape, like somehow she provoked it~ & to hear most of the towns people act as if she was a disease & that she deserved what she got~ it makes me angry every time i think or hear about it~ it really opened my eyes as to how people such as teena, who haven't quite figured out who they are yet, which to me is normal, i think we all go thru "something" transitional in our lives that define who we are~ teena was going thru that & she wasn't allowed to come out on the other side~ seeing how small & narrow minded & yes backwards these people in fall city & humbodlt were & probably still are, makes me ashamed of my home state~ lisa lambert's ( another victim) father pretty much said in the docu that because of what teena was doing that she desrved it, he didn't give an crap about her & he seemed rather cold about his daughter's death that night too~ i also remember reading that when teena's mother sued the city, that they held teena either 1% or 10% ( i forgot the exact figure) responsible for her own death~ when i saw this, it was a huge WTF????? moment~ i wrked at the Omaha World Herald during both nissan & lotters trials & was real good friends w/ the reporter we sent to cover them~ he knew i felt so passionatly about this crime, he kept in constant contact w/ me the whole time~ it was heartbreaking~ but thankfully both killers were caught & convicted, hopefully their convictions won't be overturned on some dumbass technicality~
& as for what nissan is saying now, again, i don't believe him, i believe they were both responsible~ lotter was even the instigator of the rape of teena~
they don't talk about this in the movie, they touch on it a little bit in the documentary, but because most of the town thought that teena was brandon, when word got out to lotter & nissans friends that they were accused of raping her, people were calling them faggots (their words not mine) & that really freaked them both out especially lotter~ in the documentarty, nissan girlfriend touches on this briefly~ i also thought that might be another piece to events of them killing her~
they killed the other 2 also, lisa lambert & phil devine, but hardly anyone ever talks about them~ thank goodness they didn't kill lisa's baby, i just hope he doesn't remember anything from that night~ i can't imagine what it had to be like that night~ it is so cold here in the winter, it was especially cold that night & out in the middle of nowhere, it is just a horrifying thought~
I saw the movie on this.... really sad story, I agree that not much has been said about the other 2 victims. It was all so senseless, 2 immature punks throwing a tantrum because they were fooled into thinking brandon was really brandon... I find it all so convenient that they wanna change their stories now when if it goes through they can't be tried again... neither should get out... they both raped her and they both went there to "frighten or kill them to get em to shut up", if they only intended to scare... no one would be dead... but thats not the case and 3 people lost everything, including a mother who'll never hold her child again...... they need to rot! They were in it together rot together.
all I have to say is there is MORE to a person than their sexual orientation!
I have had many friends disowned by their families for coming out and it frustrates the heck out of me...like being gay or lesbian is ALL they are? I'm straight and no one says "well Sarah..you're this or that because you are straight" etc but so many times people make assumptions about my friends "well they are this or that because they are gay" blows my mind away
off topic but for the record REPUBS....MARRIAGE in this country is a CIVIL right not a religious one...put your bibles down!
Now back on topic....lol
From what I have read and seen in the documentary on Brandon Teena.."she" was trans gendered, interviews with friends and family confirm that she preferred to be referred to as "he" etc and went to great lengths to look male...also that Teena was never really known as Brandon Teena as depicted in the movie...and again on my soapbox I go...what difference does it make???? By all accounts these scumbitches that raped her and subsequently murdered her along with two other innocent people have for years continued to use the excuse of her portraying herself as a man and humiliating them....when in fact they knew that if the heat was on them for rape they would go down one way or the other....sad and sick and now after all this time one is going to recant??? why to save himself and the other one? I hope the families of these victims can find some peace
I saw Boys Don't Cry for the first time earlier this year. That movie really touched me. I don't know--it was just sad. Hilary Swank did a great job though. I never really researched the story that inspired the movie.
^^^hilary was born in lincoln & this story really touched her also~
Amen. I have a cousin who is gay and came out at the family Christmas, as if we didn't know... He came from a very hardcore gunshootin', red state voting family. I made the comment, "Well they're happier than I am most days".
Also, doesn't it seem unconstitutional to make laws against the people? I'm from Iowa, we'll be making some political decisions for all of you soon. I'll try to do my best...
You know I got the same vibe as well; at least in Teena's case. I don't care if she was supposedly "confused", but leading people on like that is wrong; yet on the other hand I can't believe how stupid these girls were for thinking she was a boy; maybe it's just me, but it was obvious to me.
Bibically speaking I have not read anyone being killed for being gay or transsexual. There were stonings though; mostly for those that disobeyed the commands, and denied the existence of god. Besides God tells Moses "Thou Shalt not kill", but lays more into it further, and allows for killing to protect onesself (justifiable homicide), and retribution to a murderer (capital punishment). I am however still on the old testament, and if I run across into it further I'll update my post.
Actually it's both. There's Church (In a church) marriage ceremony and Civil (state sancationed legal) marriage.By Dearhart:
off topic but for the record REPUBS....MARRIAGE in this country is a CIVIL right not a religious one...put your bibles down!
Well I better go before I get pelted with some stones lol...
Last edited by Chascsq; 10-23-2007 at 05:31 AM.
Renowned Death Hag
I've been VERY blessed to have a family who loved me and many many friends who think I'm the bees knees!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]peek-a-boo!!
Renowned Death Hag
Another case I am reminded of that is similiar to Brandon Teena, is the Gwen Arajuo case in California - the transgendered boy-to-girl who was brutally beaten to death by a bunch of guys - after they were "fooled" into thinking Gwen was a girl and had messed around with her.
They all got light sentences.
But that was another case that you shouldn't try to trick people. Gwen lived in the Bay Area and there are plenty of outreach centers and groups where she could have met people more accepting of her and I don't think this would have happened.
Instead, she chose to run around with homophobic, narrow-minded straight boys and wanted to see what she could get away with.
It's a dangerous game to play - the same one Brandon Teena played.
Altho in Gwen's case - I felt she was more of a "transgendered" person than Brandon was.
And like I said, I am NOT making any slights towards the transgendered community - just going by the "vibe" I feel and everything I've seen and read on it all.
Heard about the Gwen case too, and yes I do feel it was a legit case of transgenderism; still the parties responsible for both Teena's and Gwen's murder's should of been given the chair because murder is murder, and it's a shame they weren't.
This guy recanting at this late date is just a ploy. That was a very brutal premeditated murder of three people.
I think Teena was just very young and confused. She sure didn't deserve what happened to her, the rape or the murder. I never quite understood how those girls couldn't have known she was female. Lots of denial going on, I think.
Lisa Lambert's dad came off as a real asshat in the documentary. I wanted to smack him.
awwww yes that's true...there are church ceremonies however they are not legal without a marriage license!
the other thing that is burning my biscuits...a little off topic...is those complaining about gay adoptions saying that the kids they adopt will "end up gay" ummmmm??? every single gay/lesbian I know were raised by straight parents...so if we go with the conservative theory that gays raising children will create more gays then they should explain how straights were able to raise gay kids???
I find this particular case very unsettling because it wasn't just her that was killed...a young man and a young mother died as well...these losers that did it need to stay where they are
All the gay couples I've heard of have seemed to raise straight children; however some of the advocates against this kind of adoption could claim these kids condition themselves because they watched the ostrization their parents endured. Who knows...I wasn't adopted, nor were my parents gay, and I'm straight so I really can't give an opinion on something I've never or will never experience. Maybe in a few years when Melissa Etheridge or Rosie O'Donnell's kids start talking about their childhood's or being caught robbing minimarts we'll have a public answer; of course they are almost certainly doomed just being raised in the Hollywood scene to begin with.ooh I see Scott's FAD pages on them now..
There is some claims the gay thing is hereditery. I don't know about the gay guys, but the lesbianism seems to really be. Especially since I begun my genealogy, and all the women on my mom's mother's side never married or had kids. My mother asked her mother why only her mother ever married or had kids out of all those generations, and my grandmother answered point blank, "There's only more of them in Holland."
Yes, it's called h-u-m-a-n-s,My heart aches for people who are transgendered (I know that's not the correct term anymore, but I can't remember what it's called now, so I'm sorry if the term offends anyone.)
which is not
a word
I afford to
r-a-p-i-s-t-s.
I think they should pick their bibles UP -- and try READING them for a change. Funny how so many seem to skip the "Judge not, lest ye be not judged" part.off topic but for the record REPUBS....MARRIAGE in this country is a CIVIL right not a religious one...put your bibles down!
Excuse? That's hella weak. I doubt it flies past the parole board, and the sick part is, it will likely be because they can't excuse the fact those lowlifes killed two other people. Where's their excuse for that?By all accounts these scumbitches that raped her and subsequently murdered her along with two other innocent people have for years continued to use the excuse of her portraying herself as a man and humiliating them....
Wow! Goddess, I didn't know that, thanks! I knew she was passionate about promoting and depicting the subject, but I missed that part.^^^hilary was born in lincoln & this story really touched her also~
I think she's a wonderful actress, truly gifted. Everyone should see Million Dollar Baby, too. Didn't she win all sorts of critical acclaim for Boys Don't Cry? That was the first thing I ever saw her in.
I just threw up in my mouth. WHAT?!?i also remember reading that when teena's mother sued the city, that they held teena either 1% or 10% ( i forgot the exact figure) responsible for her own death~ when i saw this, it was a huge WTF?????
they don't talk about this in the movie, they touch on it a little bit in the documentary, but because most of the town thought that teena was brandon, when word got out to lotter & nissans friends that they were accused of raping her, people were calling them faggots (their words not mine) & that really freaked them both out especially lotter~ in the documentarty, nissan girlfriend touches on this briefly~ i also thought that might be another piece to events of them killing her~
I've always thought it to be THE driving factor -- again, why kill two other people. This wasn't about trying to cover up a crime; there were too many indicators of rage in it.
I've been VERY blessed to have a family who loved me and many many friends who think I'm the bees knees!
(((Joplin))) What a wonderful blessing!! And just think, how many homosexual and heterosexual folks don't have that. I thank God almost daily that I was born to such cool people. Lucky us!!!
It was all so senseless, 2 immature punks throwing a tantrum because they were fooled into thinking brandon was really brandon...
That's not "immature punk," that's 'homicidal psychopath.'
Another case I am reminded of that is similiar to Brandon Teena, is the Gwen Arajuo case in California - the transgendered boy-to-girl who was brutally beaten to death by a bunch of guys - after they were "fooled" into thinking Gwen was a girl and had messed around with her.Aries, I'm not familiar with this case. Why do you mention the part about tricking people? Did Gwen still have male genitalia but led them to believe she had the feminine sort? Sorry, I'm not familiar with this case, I'm not quite sure what you're saying [just trying to get the whole pic].
They all got light sentences.
But that was another case that you shouldn't try to trick people. Gwen lived in the Bay Area and there are plenty of outreach centers and groups where she could have met people more accepting of her and I don't think this would have happened.
Personally, it's very simple; if a person with male genitalia tells me that they are a female, I address them so just as I would politely respect any other person. It's what you choose in your heart [or what your heart chooses!] that matters.
Instead, she chose to run around with homophobic, narrow-minded straight boys and wanted to see what she could get away with.
If she was truly in love ... and hoping that person would love her back and then understand later ... love has been known to make even the most intelligent person temporarily nuts
Altho in Gwen's case - I felt she was more of a "transgendered" person than Brandon was.
Why? LOL Sorry, I hate feeling lost ...
Heard about the Gwen case too, and yes I do feel it was a legit case of transgenderism
What denotes "legitimate?" That's not a snarky comment, I'm sincerely asking (anyone), thanks.
This guy recanting at this late date is just a ploy. That was a very brutal premeditated murder of three people.
OH! Mrs. Watson, I did not know they planned to kill the other two people all along! Why on earth? I don't recall the movie depicting that the killers felt the other two people had deceived them too; they movie made it look as if they were wrong place/wrong time casualties. But you know Hollywood -- even movies that say "based on actual events" might contain 2% truth, I've witnessed it and am very cynical about the biz 'retellings.'
I think that premeditated murder is a more serious offense than murder, legally speaking ... just throwing that out there / no reason
the other thing that is burning my biscuits...a little off topic...is those complaining about gay adoptions saying that the kids they adopt will "end up gay" ummmmm??? every single gay/lesbian I know were raised by straight parents...so if we go with the conservative theory that gays raising children will create more gays then they should explain how straights were able to raise gay kids???
BTW, anyone who has a problem with gays/lesbians raising adopted children should see the movie We Are Dad. In fact I take that back, everyone should see We Are Dad.
Teena Brandon always made me so sad and angry..I mean regardless of what her sexual prefrence these two sick guys aped her and then killed her and two innocent people on of which had a baby...who will now grow up with no mother. Its just a sad , sad story. She played a dangerouse game yes...but no one deserves what happened to her. And keep in mind these two guys raped her! I mean if they were so disguted with the fact she was indeed a girl after all this time thinking she was a guy I think it shows how sick these two really are.I hope they rot both in life and in hell.
Renowned Death Hag
Gwen ran around with a party crowd out in Newark, CA. Apparently she was out walking around town one day and one of the guys involved in her murder, offered her a ride and he really believed Gwen was a "she" and they ended up hanging around together and he introduced her to some of his buddies and for a few months, she was involved with this circle of people - playing dominoes, drinking, partying and she messed around with a couple of the guys in the group - only giving oral sex.
When the guys would want to do actual sex with Gwen, she'd say she was on her period or give some other excuse so she wouldn't be "found out" to actually be a "he".
The guys started putting two and two together and grew suspicious and one night at the house they all lived in and partied at, they recruited one of their female friends take Gwen into the bathroom and check once and for all what sex Gwen actually was.
And when it was discovered, that's when all hell broke loose. They beat Gwen to death in the house, and then drove her body up to Placerville, CA and buried her there.
Eventually one of the guys broke down and confessed and led the police to where Gwen's body was.
Gwen's mom was really supportive of her all her life helped her shop for women's clothes and with her make-up and everything. Apparently the whole family was of her transgenderism.
But anyway, like I said, Gwen played a dangerous game. She got herself involved with the wrong crowd, the homophobes. I really feel Gwen was just pushing her luck and seeing how much she could get away with.
JMO - based on everything I read and heard about the story. I lived in the Bay Area during the time of the murder and even worked with a girl who dated the brother of one of these guys!
I didn`t know that.....she was totally awesome in this flick....
Either way, they both raped her, they both were at the house, they both should serve life, period, amen.
Maybe - but the reality is, could she ever have afforded the operation if she WAS transgendered? She was a petty theif, I doubt it was something attainable for her.
Renowned Death Hag
We had to go all the way into Canada to get legally married. Hopefully, New York will speed up the process as far as "domestic rights" are concerned.
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Administrator
I read the book, which was very good.
I did not think the movie was very good.
Horrible story, no matter what.
Seen this on Lifetime network a few times, it's a good movie made for television, I did look up Gwen's website & she was very pretty, I couldn't even imagine her as male??!!...
Renowned Death Hag
I may be starting a fight, but I wanted to "say" a couple of things from the religious view:
Yes, the Bible says homosexuality is wrong, and yes, the Bible says "Thou shalt not kill", the Bible even states "Love thy neighbor". So what the heck? The problem here is that Religious Zealots cannot separate the sin from the sinner. God teaches me to love everyone, but not condone everything everyone does. I love my neighbor, but I cannot condone it if I see him drunk every day (I just personally don't like being around drinking - 3 alcoholics in my family). But in love I would try to get him to see the error of his ways (alcoholism). If I can't do it, then, yes, I have to give up - that's between him and God. I am one of God's Children and I have several homosexual friends. I have talked with them about their sexuality, but again that's between them and God. I don't allow them into my bedroom and I don't want to be in theirs.
I don't think near the people would be so opposed to God/Religion/Christianity if the fanatics weren't so fanitical. But, that's the problem here. The loud and crazy wheel gets the most oil. The bottom line is everyone on this earth, past, present and future all sinners and will continue to be. We're all in the same boat, so why don't we act it?
As far as marriage goes, God created marriage, so in my mind, yes, Marriage is a religious thing. However, if you don't invite God into your marriage, it is strictly a civil union. And yes, I realize you have to get a marriage certificate either way. I also get speeding tickets when I speed, but the Bible doesn't say anything about that. I do think that if people did open the Bible a little bit more, there would be more love and less problems in the world today. And that's includes the institution of marriage. The one gripe I do have is if you don't believe, and you don't want God to interfere with your civil marriage, please don't get married in a church. That is one of the most hypricital things I have ever seen and people do it every day. It just drives me nuts.
Sorry for the rant. All of the above is only my opinion and not meant to offend anyone. I'll get off my soapbox now.
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39
Lotter and Nissan are the ONLY ones responsible for Teena's evil murder, but I agree Teena should not have been pretending to be a male when she was not and lying to the girls she dated. That was very dangerous and very stupid, and also did not take into account the feelings of the girls she became involved with.
Last edited by Andrea; 01-13-2008 at 12:54 PM.
I always shudder when someone mentions Falls City, just because of Teena Brandon/Brandon Ten-a.....
Here in Nee-braska, it is a very conservative state, and it does not surprise me at all to hear how the sherriff questioned Brandon after the rape....like she deserved it!!! No one deserves to be raped!!!! How awful for Teena/Brandon that she felt like she couldn't be who she wanted to be, and her life would have been totally different had she lived in a different and more progressive atmosphere.
I assume Teena/Brandon is buried in Nebraska....where is her grave???
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg...=gr&GRid=11925
She is buried in Nebraska.
Her stone reads Teena R. Brandon, daughter, sister, friend.
Renowned Death Hag
bump...since we are also talking about the Gwen Arajo story in this thread too!
Administrator
Administrator
Renowned Death Hag
The Life and Death of Teena Brandon was just on Notorious. As simple as this may sound, why can't people live and let live? They always mock or kill what they don't understand. <sigh>
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]peek-a-boo!!
ITA.
I just read the book "She's not there" by Jennifer Finney Boylan, she is the transgender college professer out in Maine who had the surgery. She has been on Oprah, Larry King and some other things.
The book was fantastic and funny and I would recommend it to anyone.
She has her own website too.
Sorry, a little OT
Ignorance is bliss. The bible has been deciphered so many times by so many people that I believe the message has been lost and that is to me "Be Good to each other...AND PARTY ON DUDES!!"
What happened to this young man was a travesty. I firmly believe that he had a gender identity crisis. Most butch lesbians identify with men better than women. Maybe they dont realize it but maybe they are more transgendered than they think. I dont think that Brandon did it because he was really trying to get some tail. I think he was really trying to complete himself and find love and be happy like most of do in this life.
I havent seen that movie but maybe I will one day.
Renowned Death Hag
As a member of the GLBT community, I find a lot of homophobia within the community as well. I don't get it.
Yes, I read Jenny's book. She is truly inspirational. I saw an interview with her on LOGO recently, too.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]peek-a-boo!!
She just wrote a new one on her home growing up (the coffin house) being haunted. I have not read it yet, but I plan on getting it.
I truly believe this was a genuine case of gender confusion and this one is special to me. My heart breaks when I think of this case.
Last edited by Deathwish; 01-07-2009 at 07:07 PM. Reason: Forgot to delete part of what I wrote and decided to not include...
there are crime scene photos of this. i don't remember where i saw them, but they are graphic! sad.
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