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Thread: Girl Scout Murders in Oklahoma 1977

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lita View Post
    ETA: I went camping with my best-friend the day after watching the Blair Witch Project. For me, that movie is scarier to me than any Jason, Freddy, Michael Myers, type movie because they never show the witch so it's left up to your imagination. Anyway, that night while walking back to our tent from the loo we started calling for Josh. Of course, there was no Josh with us. We scared the crap out of these 14-15 year old girls in the campsite next to ours. We didn't mean to, we didn't even know they were there. Later that night after we'd gone to sleep, the wind picked up. Something heavy on our picnic table tipped over. We looked out with a flashlight. The light reflected off a wild cat's eyes. It was a normal house cat sized cat. We ended up sleeping with our feet in the trunk of my car, using the fold-down backseat as kind of a bed. It wasn't all that fun.
    Blair Witch was a complete mind freak. I think that's why it was so scary to me. It got in my head and walked around up there...
    For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39

  2. #102
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    Been reading up...

    I realize hindsight and all that, but you have a note stating someone is going to kill some girls, robbery in the camp, moaning, a dude looking in a tent, someone alledgely being grabbed on her way to the bathroom, and NO ONE thinks anything about it? C'mon! It's all written off to pranks?

    And how in the world did some of the youngest girls at camp get a tent so far from camp and the counsellors? Shouldn't they have been the closest?
    For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheBoss View Post
    Been reading up...

    I realize hindsight and all that, but you have a note stating someone is going to kill some girls, robbery in the camp, moaning, a dude looking in a tent, someone alledgely being grabbed on her way to the bathroom, and NO ONE thinks anything about it? C'mon! It's all written off to pranks?

    And how in the world did some of the youngest girls at camp get a tent so far from camp and the counsellors? Shouldn't they have been the closest?
    It's no excuse, but you have to remember this was the 70's. Of course our personal safety was put up there, but nowhere near what it is today.....we are MUCH more guarded than at that time. (that may be difficult to understand if you don't remember that time)
    Ican also tell you that the first couple of nights at most Girl Scout camps were filled with "pranks", mostly designed to scare the shit out of the younger or newbie campers.....I can promise you they wouldn't fly in today's world. I am still bothered that these counselers seemed to lack good judgement, and err on the side of caution.....personally, I would have sent for the Ranger to double check. Also, the Kiowa unit, which was filled with the youngest campers seemed like an extremely poor layout......those girls should NOT have been that cutoff from the group !!!


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  4. #104
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    Thats what I keep asking!! How many heads up did they need!! I mean the dummy hanging from the tree would have been enough for me to say okay soemthing is way off here...we need to lockdown! Then the thing that also bothers me is they were pretty far away!! What were they thinking? I mean no adult in the tent with them?? I have said it before and Ill say it again you cannot help but to think they really let theses girls down that night.

  5. #105
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    I mean the were prett damn far away from the others! And thats fine but wouldent you think they would have said to themselves okay we have to have one adult in there with them since they are so far away from the others?? Pranks sure ...but a letter stateing someone would hurt three little girls.... other girls getting grabbed by a stranger..then a STRANGER lurking around....hanging dummies.....I mean Hello!!! Wake up call!!! I dont care if it was 1977 or not!! They been murding kids since forever!!

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lisamarie View Post
    I mean the were prett damn far away from the others! And thats fine but wouldent you think they would have said to themselves okay we have to have one adult in there with them since they are so far away from the others?? Pranks sure ...but a letter stateing someone would hurt three little girls.... other girls getting grabbed by a stranger..then a STRANGER lurking around....hanging dummies.....I mean Hello!!! Wake up call!!! I dont care if it was 1977 or not!! They been murding kids since forever!!
    Lisa, historically in the Girl Scout summer camps, there is NOT an adult in the tent with the girls. The counselors get their own tents, which should be centrally located and accessible easily to all. The only time I experienced adults in a tent/cabin was during troop camping, which was typically in the fall/winter.


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  7. #107
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    blah! have not read the latest..

    What is the book like? do we get more details? I still just think we have 3 girls dead and all, with massive mistakes in investigations, and nobody that is responsible.

    talk to me!

  8. #108
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    Hopefully they will rethink that....In the future..do they even have girl scout camps anymore??

  9. #109
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    I can't understand how anyone could hurt a child! So so sad..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazbabee View Post
    It's no excuse, but you have to remember this was the 70's. Of course our personal safety was put up there, but nowhere near what it is today.....we are MUCH more guarded than at that time. (that may be difficult to understand if you don't remember that time)
    Ican also tell you that the first couple of nights at most Girl Scout camps were filled with "pranks", mostly designed to scare the shit out of the younger or newbie campers.....I can promise you they wouldn't fly in today's world. I am still bothered that these counselers seemed to lack good judgement, and err on the side of caution.....personally, I would have sent for the Ranger to double check. Also, the Kiowa unit, which was filled with the youngest campers seemed like an extremely poor layout......those girls should NOT have been that cutoff from the group !!!
    Thanks for the info! I've never been a girl scout so I've never been to camp. I also wasn't born untl 71, so the 70's are pretty much before my time.
    For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39

  11. #111
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    The camp looks freakin eerie man! I wouldent wanna walk around there at night.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daphne View Post
    blah! have not read the latest..

    What is the book like? do we get more details? I still just think we have 3 girls dead and all, with massive mistakes in investigations, and nobody that is responsible.

    talk to me!
    The book is interesting, but I have been so busy with work, and not able to really get into it yet. I hope to read it over the weekend....so stay tuned for my book report !! lol


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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    I spent hours on it too, and not yet done . Only stopped cause my real life intruded over the weekend.
    Don't ya just hate that? LOL

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by KristinEileen View Post
    Exactly! If I would have heard that shit I would have loaded everyone into the infirmary area and been done with it. There would have been no way that some sick ass would have gotten a hold of any of those girls.

    And I agree that the statement "these were more innocent times" is crap. HELLO!!! Kidnapping, murder, torture and sexual assault have been recorded all the way back to the egyptians and then some.
    Well in 1975 I went camping (which I hate) with 2 aunts and uncles and my 2nd husband . I think it was Russian River anyway we were all camped out tents all that crap and I was looking over across the river and there was one guy camped over there by himself. I didnlt think a lot about it that night. The next day my one goofy Aunt decides to swim over across the river to the island he is camped on because it looked like he had left.
    so she is over there sun bathing topless and I hear her yell and look up and this guy is back and he has a knife. Uncles and husbands grab boat and tear over there and the guy runs hops in a boat and is out of there.
    This is broad day light. Needless to say I would not sleep there and said I was going home. I probably would not have been such an ass if HE had let me take my gun with me BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOO so I said I was leaving. The Sheriff said the would patrol but I did'nt stay and neither did the rest LOL BUT the 70's were NOT a different time. After the 60's nothing was the same. There were more serial killers in CA then you could shake a stick at. Drugs wre flying left and right,people living in abondoned houses and in tents in the woods etc. I will not send my grand kids to camps. I do not camp outinthe middle of no where. If you can get murdered in Yosemite with hundreds of people campingthere you can murdered out in the middle of no where. We also had a cabin in Bigf Sur and had not beenthere for 6 months and when we went up there a pack of hippies had moved in it and totally ruined it. We had the cops there to throw them out. We hired someone to go in and do repairs the next week but they never got done asthose hippies went back and burnt it to the ground.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleanskull View Post
    When it comes to little ones you can't let your guard down, EVER!
    You are so damn right. I never let my guard down about these kids and my son in law gets mad at me sometimes because I won't give in on certain things. We havew some heated arguments about stay overs and the doors not being locked even in daytime if we are not home and the 16 yr old and 6 yr old are . If he is going out I am staying home with those kids. Yeah I know living with your MIL is bad enough lol without her runing the house.!

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    I so agree tho..I watched my little sister who was one of those early bloomers...and she would be like 9 ,10 yaers old and I would walk behind her and see full grown men check her out! My sister is a beautful girl, but anyone who looked at her despite the makeup, would know she was underage....and these men old enough to be her grandfather would just hawk her like a fat man looka at a steak! My point is....there are evil people out there no matter where you go! And when you have LITTLE GIRLS you may look at them and see just that a little sweet innocent girl...because we are normal people, there are those out there who see little girls as easy prey. Its a fact! They are out there!! I saw them with my own eyes..there are those sick people out there who look at little girls like sex objects..its sick but true!

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lisamarie View Post
    ....and these men old enough to be her grandfather would just hawk her like a fat man looka at a steak!

    That's classic, LM!! Or "...like a fat kid loves cake"

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazbabee View Post
    The book is interesting, but I have been so busy with work, and not able to really get into it yet. I hope to read it over the weekend....so stay tuned for my book report !! lol
    Make sure and skim read - we want a book report first thing Monday morning!
    For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lisamarie View Post
    I so agree tho..I watched my little sister who was one of those early bloomers...and she would be like 9 ,10 yaers old and I would walk behind her and see full grown men check her out! My sister is a beautful girl, but anyone who looked at her despite the makeup, would know she was underage....and these men old enough to be her grandfather would just hawk her like a fat man looka at a steak! My point is....there are evil people out there no matter where you go! And when you have LITTLE GIRLS you may look at them and see just that a little sweet innocent girl...because we are normal people, there are those out there who see little girls as easy prey. Its a fact! They are out there!! I saw them with my own eyes..there are those sick people out there who look at little girls like sex objects..its sick but true!
    I'm certainly not saying this about your sister as I have never met her, but (playing Devil's advocate) some girls out there look like they are 18 or older by the time they put their make up on and dress in their skank clothes. I swear it's all the homones we put in our food today!
    For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39

  20. #120
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    Wow! Great Post!! I had never heard of this case until now! I was born after that incident occurred, but I too grew up in the Girl Scouts and went to camps many times . Never did my parents have an objection to me going on these outings. I wonder if they were even aware of what happened, but then again, that would have been 10 years before my time! Anyway, I am enjoying reading up on this case! I have become obessessed as I have with a number of cases and celebs just from being in this forum! I think the most sad cases are those that involve innocent children! Makes me so mad that people in this world can even consider hurting a child! Hurting children and animals both get to me!!

  21. #121
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    Yeah I do agree it like little girls whos mamas let them were those short with words like hot or cutie on the butt and then get mad at men for looking at their butt! I so understand ...girls seem to be whores now days...anyone ever seen girls gone wild....
    Last edited by Lisamarie; 03-06-2008 at 02:48 PM. Reason: i sux

  22. #122
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    Its really one of the creepiest stories there is, and those photos of the broken down campgrounds.. its just chilling

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    Quote Originally Posted by SheBoss View Post
    I'm certainly not saying this about your sister as I have never met her, but (playing Devil's advocate) some girls out there look like they are 18 or older by the time they put their make up on and dress in their skank clothes. I swear it's all the homones we put in our food today!
    I have to agree with this one. My sister is 12, and is more "developed" than I am, at 21, if you know what I mean. She dresses far from skanky, but she could easily pass for 16, maybe even a little older, especially if she's dressed up with make-up and her hair fixed.

    I had never heard of this case until I started reading this thread, and this one gives me the willies. I love reading true crime stuff, and was highly upset when so many people complained and my book store stopped carrying true crime novels, but this one got to me a bit.
    Last edited by DaniZ; 03-06-2008 at 05:43 PM. Reason: spelling

  24. #124
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    My daughter Chrissie is 11 we went school shopping and she wanted this sweatsuit that had Juicy on the butt. I said oh hell NO! She said all the girls were wearing them. I said then all those girls are skanks. I didn't buy it she was pissed but tough shit.
    If Jimmy cracks corn and no one cares, why is there a song about him?


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  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by SheBoss View Post
    Make sure and skim read - we want a book report first thing Monday morning!
    ROFLMAO !!!!


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  26. #126
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    No queen death hag! You did great! I had the biggest fights with my mom over what my sister would wear! I agree little girls are no longer little girls ! When we have role models like Jamie Lynn Spears walking around knocked up at 16...and Mily Cirus looking like a vegas stripper on her day off.....wtf are we teaching our children??....all I know is if I ever have a girl she is going in a convent til she is 25.....

  27. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Queen_Death_Hag View Post
    My daughter Chrissie is 11 we went school shopping and she wanted this sweatsuit that had Juicy on the butt. I said oh hell NO! She said all the girls were wearing them. I said then all those girls are skanks. I didn't buy it she was pissed but tough shit.
    I APPLAUD you for this, but to me, it seems you are in a lonely minority. But thanks for actually being a parent and *gasp* parenting!
    For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaniZ View Post
    I have to agree with this one. My sister is 12, and is more "developed" than I am, at 21, if you know what I mean. She dresses far from skanky, but she could easily pass for 16, maybe even a little older, especially if she's dressed up with make-up and her hair fixed.
    Yep - I know what you mean. I have a 10 yr old niece that is more "developed" than I am!
    For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 8:38-39

  29. #129
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    I live was born and raised in the area. I have read the book. Do not believe everything you read in it. There are more than several errors I have found.

  30. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oklahoma_Girl View Post
    I live was born and raised in the area. I have read the book. Do not believe everything you read in it. There are more than several errors I have found.
    I am almost finished reading the book (sorry , been VERY busy) and I picked up on some things that just didn't feel right. One thing that troubled me, is how quickly they assumed it was just Gene Hart responsible. I know a couple others here are going to read the book, so I don't want to say too much yet and spoil it.

    Please, fill us in, or add any thoughts or comments from your perspective. Some of us have been quite taken with this case, and would very much appreciate anything you can tell us !!


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    I am not certain that GLH did it. I think that he was a scapegoat of sorts. Yes, I am aware that he had a history of sexual crimes, but that does not make him an automatic suspect. As for the theory that the citizens of LG helped hide him and because he was a football "Star" that helped him get acquited. I don't buy that. Let me ask you this ~ If you were sitting on the jury and the evidence pointed beyond a reasonable doubt toward the defendant would you acquit just because of who this person was years before. After what was done to these children? I wouldn't... I don't care who the person was. I have children as I am sure did most of the people on the jury that day. Under the same circumstances I don't think there would be very many people out there that would help hide someone like that either. Yes, he was a fugitive for years before they caught him. But that still didn't make him guilty of this crime.

    But on the other hand even if he did do it, I think there would have to have been someone else to help. 3 little girls would make enough noise that someone would have been alerted. I don't think one person could keep three kids quiet enough in a camp setting, without alerting everyone in the camp.

    Just my thoughts. As for the book. I will wait until most of you finish reading it.

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oklahoma_Girl View Post
    I am not certain that GLH did it. I think that he was a scapegoat of sorts. Yes, I am aware that he had a history of sexual crimes, but that does not make him an automatic suspect. As for the theory that the citizens of LG helped hide him and because he was a football "Star" that helped him get acquited. I don't buy that. Let me ask you this ~ If you were sitting on the jury and the evidence pointed beyond a reasonable doubt toward the defendant would you acquit just because of who this person was years before. After what was done to these children? I wouldn't... I don't care who the person was. I have children as I am sure did most of the people on the jury that day. Under the same circumstances I don't think there would be very many people out there that would help hide someone like that either. Yes, he was a fugitive for years before they caught him. But that still didn't make him guilty of this crime.

    I agree with you on this. At night in these Girl Scout camps, sound can really travel. I don't see how 1 person would be able to keep 3 little girls quiet either..... but we can discuss after others finish the book also.

    But on the other hand even if he did do it, I think there would have to have been someone else to help. 3 little girls would make enough noise that someone would have been alerted. I don't think one person could keep three kids quiet enough in a camp setting, without alerting everyone in the camp.

    Just my thoughts. As for the book. I will wait until most of you finish reading it.


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  33. #133
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    I forgot to post this, but something happened to my intra-library transfer and the book never got down here. Grrrrrr.

    So, Jaz...... wanna share some from the book?

    A little?

  34. #134
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    Been extremely busy, but will try to catch up on this thread over the weekend !!


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  35. #135
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    This DNA not being released has me completely baffled. Am I missing
    any new information? What could they be hiding and how unfair is
    that to so many persons involved?? It almost makes me think that
    it was NOT Hart and that it proves the killer is still out there.
    Does anyone have more current info on the DNA?

  36. #136
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    I remember this vividly. I remember how they found three photographs near the murder scene and they thought it might have something to do with the murders. I don't believe it did. I remember hearing a lot about it though. I was in the hospital (had emergency surgery at 15) and all I did was read newspapers and watch the one channel that came into the room. I also remember the guy they thought did it died in prison...
    In memory of a wonderful actor who left us way too soon - William Holden 1918-1981.

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    What photos ??? I never heard that ..also anyone ever seen the documetry or 20/20 ot whatever it was?? I remeber seeing it a long time ago and they showed the tent splattered with blood?? Also I belive they may have showed a quick clip of the bodies....so sad and sick. Whoever did this has a special place in hell....dose anyone think they were chosen for their location or were they singled out???

  38. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lisamarie View Post
    What photos ??? I never heard that ..also anyone ever seen the documetry or 20/20 ot whatever it was?? I remeber seeing it a long time ago and they showed the tent splattered with blood?? Also I belive they may have showed a quick clip of the bodies....so sad and sick. Whoever did this has a special place in hell....dose anyone think they were chosen for their location or were they singled out???
    I personally believe it was the fairly isolated location of the cabin. There was also an access road/lane running behing where the girls were. There is nothing that really suggests that it was done for who they were.


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  39. #139
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    I'm writing an article about this for an upcoming issue of 'Serial Killer' magazine, and this thread is a gold mine!

    I'd never heard of this story until now!
    The most dangerous woman of all is the one who refuses to rely on your sword to save her because she carries her own.

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    There were three photos discarded near the scene of the crime. They were older photos from the 1950's or 1960's, and they didn't have anything to do with the crime. There was a big article about in the Dallas paper. I kept all the papers about it. It's somewhere in this house of mine. I was in the hospital 15 days and this story, sadly, kept my fascination from me feeling sorry for myself.
    In memory of a wonderful actor who left us way too soon - William Holden 1918-1981.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crazedfemale View Post
    There were three photos discarded near the scene of the crime. They were older photos from the 1950's or 1960's, and they didn't have anything to do with the crime. There was a big article about in the Dallas paper. I kept all the papers about it. It's somewhere in this house of mine. I was in the hospital 15 days and this story, sadly, kept my fascination from me feeling sorry for myself.
    if you ever come across it, I am sure we would love to hear about it !!


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  42. #142
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    There is a new board up discussing the case because lots of posts were removed at the AE board....

    http://girlscoutmurders.yuku.com/directory

  43. #143
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    There is a poster at the A&E who was convinced that her uncle or cousin was the second person with Hart. According to the woman posting at the A&E board, this male relative sexually abused her and other young female relatives.
    This guy also took family members on tours of the abandoned campground which was very close to his home. He pointed out where the bodies were and had a great deal of inside information. The guy would obsessively go on and on about the killing and details.

  44. #144
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    This is a fascinating case. Lots of info has been brought up that makes me wonder if GLH was set up by the Sheriff.
    I want to get the book and DVD but can't afford them!

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by xenaswolf View Post
    This is a fascinating case. Lots of info has been brought up that makes me wonder if GLH was set up by the Sheriff.
    I want to get the book and DVD but can't afford them!
    I found a copy of the book on Amazon for a few bucks.nfortunately, since it is out of print, the book is old, brittle and fragile. Personally, I feel the book is VERY slanted and the author never gives Gene Hart a chance, all fingers were immediately pointed at him. Sadly, the book did NOT shed any new insight on the murders than what I had read on the message boards.

    The only thing interesting was that a Native American Medicine man put a "curse" on Gene Hart during his trial that said in effect if he was guilty, then he would die or something like that. Curiously enough, Gene Hart died about a year later in prison !!!


    What fresh hell is this ? ~ Dorothy Parker

    ]

  46. #146
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Connecticut, You know home of ESPN
    Posts
    9,266
    I had never heard of this before. There definately seems to be more going on then was ever released.

    It is really scary to me that most summer camps are still run primarily by teenagers. Most teens I know can barely take care of themselves, let alone a camp of children. My best friend used to be a camp counselor and the stories of sex, drugs, and booze she came home with would make your skin crawl. You think your kids are being supervised at camp? Think again....

  47. #147
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by Miho View Post

    It is really scary to me that most summer camps are still run primarily by teenagers. Most teens I know can barely take care of themselves, let alone a camp of children. My best friend used to be a camp counselor and the stories of sex, drugs, and booze she came home with would make your skin crawl. You think your kids are being supervised at camp? Think again....


    i was a counselor at a summer camp in the Poconos when i was 19. come to think of it, there was a lot of sex and booze- and drugs (pot), though i didn't partake of that- but that stuff was all done after hours when you weren't "on duty." our camp was run by adults by and large, though, and ultimately they would have been the ones responsible.

  48. #148
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    4,508
    Hey.....it has been quite awhile since there has been any input on this thread. Just wanted to see if anybody has heard anything, or maybe if some of our nebies might want to see this story, and maybe join in the previous discussions ???


    What fresh hell is this ? ~ Dorothy Parker

    ]

  49. #149
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    3,941
    yeah I was just thinking the same thing...anything new??

  50. #150
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    4,508
    I haven't seen or heard anything new....seems that the case is at a standstill. I was hoping that just maybe a Death Hag out in Oklahoma might see or hear of something.....y never know !


    What fresh hell is this ? ~ Dorothy Parker

    ]

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