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Thread: Girl Scout Murders in Oklahoma 1977

  1. #51
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    EXCELLENT!! Thank you! I, too, am engrossed in this case.. its very very creepy, those poor kids!

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daphne View Post
    EXCELLENT!! Thank you! I, too, am engrossed in this case.. its very very creepy, those poor kids!
    You are most welcome !! I ordered the book today from Amazon.....Someone Cry for the Children, which was written about thecase. I can't wait for it to arrive !!!


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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazbabee View Post
    You are most welcome !! I ordered the book today from Amazon.....Someone Cry for the Children, which was written about thecase. I can't wait for it to arrive !!!
    I placed a request with IBORROW at my library.
    There are no copies of it in my town, darn it, and not sure how long the transfer will take.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazbabee View Post
    I camped a LOT during my Girl Scout years !! Yes we had these platform tents also, and they barely protect you from the elements. The canvas sides and front and back flaps also roll up, and makes the tent "open air". You are very vulnerable to anyone, or anything that wants to get in, because it is only a heavy canvas between you, and whatever or whomever may be outside.
    I don't want to sound stupid, but what about bears and stuff?

  5. #55
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    well, I have been backpacking my whole life, in much more wildnerness areas than this, and bears or other animals typically will not harm ya especially in this type of environment. Dunno, but this is not animal damage.. this is human sick damage...if that makes sense..

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    I placed a request with IBORROW at my library.
    There are no copies of it in my town, darn it, and not sure how long the transfer will take.
    I found a paperback copy in Very Good condition on Amazon for only $3.98


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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    I don't want to sound stupid, but what about bears and stuff?
    In all my years of camping, we never had problems with bears.....they stayed away. Occasionally someone would run across a skunk, or possum, and especially racoons that liked to get into any food they could find.


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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daphne View Post
    well, I have been backpacking my whole life, in much more wildnerness areas than this, and bears or other animals typically will not harm ya especially in this type of environment. Dunno, but this is not animal damage.. this is human sick damage...if that makes sense..
    No, I know humans killed the girls.
    I meant that those tents would be so exposed to something like bears.
    Guess I am just not the camping sort.
    The only other time I camped (besides the one girl scout trip) there was a big-ass spider in the tent and that ended my camping adventures

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazbabee View Post
    I found a paperback copy in Very Good condition on Amazon for only $3.98
    Wow, great deal. I saw some for 40-50.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    No, I know humans killed the girls.
    I meant that those tents would be so exposed to something like bears.
    Guess I am just not the camping sort.
    The only other time I camped (besides the one girl scout trip) there was a big-ass spider in the tent and that ended my camping adventures

    DOH!! okeedokes!

  11. #61
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    Never mind me and the bears.
    I spent too much time reading in the Timmy Treadwell thread I think .
    I know that was in Alaska but still, what a gruesome death for him and his girl.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazbabee View Post
    I can't find it right now, but there is another poster, who claims that her Uncle (his last name is Martin) was molesting his nieces when they were young. She goes on to tell how the Uncle lives on a property at the entrance to the camp, and how the Uncle would give tours to his family in the camp, and knew the exact locations, down to the exact tree of where thing happened. The Uncle would then LAUGH about it all......this woman has reported him to the police, and her supicions about his involvement to authorities,m but so far, nothing has been done......there is a LOT of fuckery that has gone on in this case !!!

    Umm,check my posts on page one!

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by baroque1 View Post
    Umm,check my posts on page one!
    Thanks Baroque, but what I was referring to was her username.....I should have clarified that. That's the item that isn't in your posts.


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  14. #64
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    Oh, yeah...okay. One of them is Fullofhopealways....the second one...I dont know

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    Reading this, I found myself thinking back to my camp days as a little girl. How terrified those girls must have been! Poor kids. Very tragic.

    I had never heard this story. Thanks for posting. I have been reading this thread for about an hour now. It's one of those truly chilling, get-up-and-make-sure-all-the-doors-are-locked stories.

    Shell
    "Death is when the monsters get you." --Stephen King Salem's Lot

  16. #66
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    In a closet, seldom opened, Sheri Farmer has much of the evidence collected from the crime scene.
    I can't imagine keeping evidence of my daughter's murder. I had never heard of this until today. I wasn't alive when it happened. I just can't imagine. I think these slayings have a "Jason-ish" feel to them because the writers of the Jason movies probably used these for "inspiration" or whatever. I'm going to have to go through all of those websites Jaz posted. I'm going to be up all night.

    ETA: I went camping with my best-friend the day after watching the Blair Witch Project. For me, that movie is scarier to me than any Jason, Freddy, Michael Myers, type movie because they never show the witch so it's left up to your imagination. Anyway, that night while walking back to our tent from the loo we started calling for Josh. Of course, there was no Josh with us. We scared the crap out of these 14-15 year old girls in the campsite next to ours. We didn't mean to, we didn't even know they were there. Later that night after we'd gone to sleep, the wind picked up. Something heavy on our picnic table tipped over. We looked out with a flashlight. The light reflected off a wild cat's eyes. It was a normal house cat sized cat. We ended up sleeping with our feet in the trunk of my car, using the fold-down backseat as kind of a bed. It wasn't all that fun.
    Last edited by Lita; 02-24-2008 at 07:28 PM. Reason: hit sumbit too quick

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lita View Post
    I can't imagine keeping evidence of my daughter's murder. I had never heard of this until today. I wasn't alive when it happened. I just can't imagine. I think these slayings have a "Jason-ish" feel to them because the writers of the Jason movies probably used these for "inspiration" or whatever. I'm going to have to go through all of those websites Jaz posted. I'm going to be up all night.

    ETA: I went camping with my best-friend the day after watching the Blair Witch Project. For me, that movie is scarier to me than any Jason, Freddy, Michael Myers, type movie because they never show the witch so it's left up to your imagination. Anyway, that night while walking back to our tent from the loo we started calling for Josh. Of course, there was no Josh with us. We scared the crap out of these 14-15 year old girls in the campsite next to ours. We didn't mean to, we didn't even know they were there. Later that night after we'd gone to sleep, the wind picked up. Something heavy on our picnic table tipped over. We looked out with a flashlight. The light reflected off a wild cat's eyes. It was a normal house cat sized cat. We ended up sleeping with our feet in the trunk of my car, using the fold-down backseat as kind of a bed. It wasn't all that fun.
    I still think BW is scary as all hell, exactly because you never see the bad thing.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by baroque1 View Post
    Oh, yeah...okay. One of them is Fullofhopealways....the second one...I dont know
    I will keep looking and let you know when I find it......I remember it has the word Spring in the name


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  19. #69
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    That link has some very chilling information. It seems there were some very lucky girls who had contact with the killer that night. Too bad the counsilors didn't listen to them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Area Man View Post
    I believe that it was almost certain that Gene Leroy Hart (an American Indian vagrant/drunk) committed the crimes. It was a real OJ Simpson type-trial where his supporters cared more about him getting off because of his race. He went to prison for a sex-related assault crime and dropped dead of a heart attack in his late 30's. The investigators involved state that there is no doubt it was him, but he got off due to racism etc. There was a mass of incriminating evidence (boots matched prints, he had some items in his possession, etc.). That's why it is a closed case at this point.

    I read this whole thing..the shoe print was a 10 his feet were 11 to 11.5 the finger prints didn't match so how could it positively been him? I think after they do dna they may find it was more than one man behind this horrible thing.

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny Mulhenny View Post
    Follow the money. Someone doesn't want them out.
    Maybe they do not match the guy and they need to test someone else and do not want to warn that person that they are on to him? or them?

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lita View Post

    That link has some very chilling information. It seems there were some very lucky girls who had contact with the killer that night. Too bad the counsilors didn't listen to them.

    I too went to camp and we had our cabins in a cirlce. There were 10 kids to each cabin and we were able to lock the door. The consulers could hear everything in that circle. We had bears and such but never had a problem with them. I remember we were told if we heard a noise or got scared that we only had to call out the window. DO not leave the cabins or go to the outhouses by ourselves without an adult. The way that camp was set up it was a perfect place for something like this to happen.
    I aslo firmly believe that if Hart had done this crime that they would have announced it. They are not doing so because the DNA did not match his and or there is more than one DNA. Why would one man take the chance of killing 2 kids and taking the other one to rape and kill and go back and get the others? More to this stroy to come I think.

  23. #73
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    Never heard this before now, my daughter is in Brownies and I just got the camp info in the mail for summer camps, although I hadn't planned on sending her to one (even before I read this) it makes me NOT want to ever let her attend one!!!!..I know this was years ago but I can't help but think of bad things...Great pics of the camp by the way very creepy looking, now that all the buildings are so dilapitated...

  24. #74
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    I just read on like page three of the A&E boards that there was a stick figure with a note attached, and a note left in a donut box that were found at the campsite or near it or something and I don't know what they said does anyone have any idea what these were and if they foretold of the murders? Thanks to everyone that has posted a link, I am no obsessed too!
    It's a lifetime filled with tiny graces, the biggest things in the smallest places...

  25. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by KristinEileen View Post
    I just read on like page three of the A&E boards that there was a stick figure with a note attached, and a note left in a donut box that were found at the campsite or near it or something and I don't know what they said does anyone have any idea what these were and if they foretold of the murders? Thanks to everyone that has posted a link, I am no obsessed too!
    There was a note in a donut box found in a tent a couple of weeks before the murderers. It said "I will kill three girls" or something along those lines. It was looked at as a prank because of the ghost stories told at camps.

    I think that Gene LeRoy Hart had something to do with the murders but I don't think he acted alone. Two of the girls were killed in the tent. I hope to God they were dead before they were sexually assaulted. It would make sense that there were two killers, one who killed the girls in the tent while the other one took the third girl from the tent. It would also explain the difference in the way the bodies were found. If it had been one killer, I think there would have been more heard than the little girl crying for her mom. There were some screams heard around 2 am but those could have been from the girls who reported a man looking in their tent. If some dude stuck his ugly mug into my tent, I'd scream. The police found a cave where the murderer had stayed after the killings and it had some writing on the walls about the murders and calling the lawmen fools. Reading about everything that happened that night besides the murders is scary! Groaning in the woods, a counsilor seeing a light in the woods, a girl freaked out after she saw a man in the woods, girls grabbed by a man on a trail, girls reporting a man looking into their tents. It's freaky!!

  26. #76
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    What a horrible story!! I have 2 little girls myself!!! I just couldnt imagine!

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    There's no excuse for what happened to those babies. Putting 3 defenseless pre-pubescent girls in a TENT, SEVENTY-FIVE FEET away from the others in an isolated, wooded area? As a grown woman I would hesitate to be put into that situation, unless I had some weapons at the ready AND serious self-defense skills.
    And please don't give me, "those were more innocent times"--- It was 1977, for crying out loud, and in any case, the human nature to sexually violate and murder when given the opportunity has been with us forever, and will forever be, alas. The idiocy of the adults who allegedly ignored not one, but SEVERAL reports of a strange man roaming the area occupied by equally defenseless young girls, while being defenseless young women themselves, boggles the mind. Nowadays, every kid in the camp would be on their cell phones in an instant, and IF the story turned out to be untrue after all, who cares, better safe than sorry!!!
    I am beginning to wonder if those kids were actually set up for some terrible reason.

  28. #78
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    I spent 6 hours on this thread lol and the majority do not believe Hart was the killer or even if he was involved. It is very interesting and many people who were actually at the camp at the time of the murders come on and talk.

  29. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOVSTORM View Post
    I spent 6 hours on this thread lol and the majority do not believe Hart was the killer or even if he was involved. It is very interesting and many people who were actually at the camp at the time of the murders come on and talk.
    I spent hours on it too, and not yet done . Only stopped cause my real life intruded over the weekend.

  30. #80
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    The book that I ordered about this case should be here by tomorrow, and I will most likely devour it in one evening !! Will be interesting to see what else the book contains that we haven't seen on links to this case.


    What fresh hell is this ? ~ Dorothy Parker

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  31. #81
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    def. spill about the book. i too have become obsessed with this now! oh and Jazbabee, i am MEZMORIZED by your avatar! every once in awhile i find that i have been staring at it and a couple minutes have passed! love it!!!

  32. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajurk View Post
    def. spill about the book. i too have become obsessed with this now! oh and Jazbabee, i am MEZMORIZED by your avatar! every once in awhile i find that i have been staring at it and a couple minutes have passed! love it!!!
    Here's the book again -




    Will let everyone know how it is. Oh, and glad the avatar is amusing - I find myself doing the same thing with it , especially if there is music playing and it appears he is moving to the beat!


    What fresh hell is this ? ~ Dorothy Parker

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    This bothers me as well..I cannot help but to feel these camp counslers really let them down...I mean if I found a dummy hanging from a noose, strange growling in the woods...a note in a dounut box about killing three girls.....Reports of a strange man wandering around the camp sight.....I would have so had my gaurd up.....I would have been so on the phone to the cops.......Saying get your ass out here now! This is a awful case and it haunts me....to think these girls were most likley picked for sexual reasons.......God......It its just so horrible .

  34. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lisamarie View Post
    This bothers me as well..I cannot help but to feel these camp counslers really let them down...I mean if I found a dummy hanging from a noose, strange growling in the woods...a note in a dounut box about killing three girls.....Reports of a strange man wandering around the camp sight.....I would have so had my gaurd up.....I would have been so on the phone to the cops.......Saying get your ass out here now! This is a awful case and it haunts me....to think these girls were most likley picked for sexual reasons.......God......It its just so horrible .
    Exactly! If I would have heard that shit I would have loaded everyone into the infirmary area and been done with it. There would have been no way that some sick ass would have gotten a hold of any of those girls.

    And I agree that the statement "these were more innocent times" is crap. HELLO!!! Kidnapping, murder, torture and sexual assault have been recorded all the way back to the egyptians and then some.
    It's a lifetime filled with tiny graces, the biggest things in the smallest places...

  35. #85
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    When it comes to little ones you can't let your guard down, EVER!
    Last edited by cleanskull; 02-29-2008 at 08:52 PM.
    Some days, you get the Bear, other days the Bear gets you.

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    Thats how I feel, I raised my little brother and sister and my sister is one those early beauties..she bloomed early .....and I would watch grown men look at her ass when she was 11 years old....and I would wanna slit there throats@!! I was always on my gaurd !! Always even with my lil brother......My mamma always told me just because your paranoid dosent mean they are not after you. I juse cannot get over the fact they left them in such an isolated tent by themselves and there was no adult sleeping in there with them..Innocent times.....as if there is such a thing pullleeezzzz!

  37. #87
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by cleanskull View Post
    When it comes to lttle ones you can't let your guard down, EVER!

    AGREED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    It could be caretakers, but what are they taking care of?
    It's been a while since a story caught me up like this one.
    It's just got all the elements.

    The caretakers own the property. Also there are 3 girls on there stating their uncle who IS the caretaker molested them when they were young and also that he took them down to where the murders were and told them all about it with a sick smile on his face. They think he is the killer and not that Indian fellow. The footprint didn;t fit his shoes he was a 11.5 and they were 10 , The finger print didn't match Harts either. These girl are pushing for the cops to check this guys dna and fingerprints.

  39. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by NOVSTORM View Post
    The caretakers own the property. Also there are 3 girls on there stating their uncle who IS the caretaker molested them when they were young and also that he took them down to where the murders were and told them all about it with a sick smile on his face. They think he is the killer and not that Indian fellow. The footprint didn;t fit his shoes he was a 11.5 and they were 10 , The finger print didn't match Harts either. These girl are pushing for the cops to check this guys dna and fingerprints.
    Yeah, I have been following it.

  40. #90
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    so far I have counted 5 different girls who said they were supposed to be the 4th girl the tent on that site that night. Please let me know if in the book it says who that girl actually was.

  41. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazbabee View Post
    Here's the book again -




    Will let everyone know how it is. Oh, and glad the avatar is amusing - I find myself doing the same thing with it , especially if there is music playing and it appears he is moving to the beat!
    Jaz, did you get a chance to read the book? Still waiting on my copy from library.

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    Jaz, did you get a chance to read the book? Still waiting on my copy from library.
    The book came in on Saturday. My son celebrated a birthday this weekend, so I haven't had much time to read. I am a bit less than half way through. It is an interesting read, especially some of the background info on various people. The book has verified that a 4th girl would have joined the group in the Kiowa tent the next day, but they did not name who it would have been.........I won't spoil it for anyone who is going to read it, but if I find a real AHA moment, I will let you all know !


    What fresh hell is this ? ~ Dorothy Parker

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  43. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazbabee View Post
    The book came in on Saturday. My son celebrated a birthday this weekend, so I haven't had much time to read. I am a bit less than half way through. It is an interesting read, especially some of the background info on various people. The book has verified that a 4th girl would have joined the group in the Kiowa tent the next day, but they did not name who it would have been.........I won't spoil it for anyone who is going to read it, but if I find a real AHA moment, I will let you all know !
    Shoot
    No spoilers,

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    Shoot
    No spoilers,

    lol....how long did the library say the wait will be ?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazbabee View Post
    lol....how long did the library say the wait will be ?
    Up to a month. There wasn't a single copy to be had anywhere in the local libraries.

  46. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    Up to a month. There wasn't a single copy to be had anywhere in the local libraries.
    Oh damn !! Tell ya what, I won't have time to read it during the week, but plan to finish it up over the weekend.........If ya want to, I could mail you my copy when I finish ?? Just PM me and let me know !


    What fresh hell is this ? ~ Dorothy Parker

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  47. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazbabee View Post
    Oh damn !! Tell ya what, I won't have time to read it during the week, but plan to finish it up over the weekend.........If ya want to, I could mail you my copy when I finish ?? Just PM me and let me know !
    Awww...that is so sweet, thank you. But it's ok, I'll wait. Cool thing about IBorrow is I found some other books I couldn't get locally that I am having sent too. So I'll have my nose in books for weeks.

  48. #98
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    Wow, I spent a good deal of last night and tonight reading the A&E pages... I hadn't heard a lot of the details until now. It gives me chills that some of the girls had reported that they saw a man peer into their tent and walk away! I try to picture that and it freaks me out-- I did that a lot last night when I was trying to sleep!

    For any of you who went to summer camps like this, was it typical to have kids only in a tent like that? We had a camp close to our town here in NW Oklahoma, but each held like 10 girls and an adult.

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    Quote Originally Posted by motherogod View Post
    Wow, I spent a good deal of last night and tonight reading the A&E pages... I hadn't heard a lot of the details until now. It gives me chills that some of the girls had reported that they saw a man peer into their tent and walk away! I try to picture that and it freaks me out-- I did that a lot last night when I was trying to sleep!

    For any of you who went to summer camps like this, was it typical to have kids only in a tent like that? We had a camp close to our town here in NW Oklahoma, but each held like 10 girls and an adult.
    I am a veteran at Girl Scout camping......I suppose that's why this case hit so close to home for me. These platform style tents, covered by a heavy canvas were typical in a majority of the camps (some however, also had cabins) You could roll the sides of the tents up, and open the front and back flaps, to get an open air effect. Lots of bugs and wood spiders in the tents with you, and thunderstorms or heavy rain was not fun. I always had a sense of vulnerability, but we had a great park ranger, and we knew him, and he patrolled on a regular and visible basis.
    Only once, in all my years (in the mid 70's) my unit was out in the deep woods doing survival/wilderness camping, and the ranger came and got us because there had been a scare with trespassers on the property. We were taken back to our units for safety, and security was stepped up that night until all was verified as clear, but thankfully, we never had anything remotely close like what happened in Oklahoma. (my camp, Tohikanee was located in Quakertown, Pennsylvania) And yes, it was standard to have at least 4 girls (sometimes 5, with a cot in the middle of the tent). The counselors always had their own tent.....but in our camp, they always tried to put the counselors in a central location to all of the tents, and to help cut down on some of the noise and pranks that go on at night. I went on to become a CIT (Counselor In Training) and eventually a Counselor and Lifeguard.....I wouldn't trade any of those summers for anything !!!! They were some of the best memories of my life !!!!
    Last edited by Jazbabee; 03-03-2008 at 10:11 PM.


    What fresh hell is this ? ~ Dorothy Parker

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  50. #100
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    3,941
    The thing that bothers me so much is the walk after they found the girls bodies...how did they know he was not still out there waiting and watching...not to mention how did they know they were not trampling on evidence..because they later said he must have hid in a cave as there was some sort of messgae on the wall? I just know this case bothers the hell outta me when I think of the terror those poor little girls must have felt and to think one had time to cry for her mama....makes me wanna cry.

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