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Thread: Eric Garner, killed by police choke hold

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    Eric Garner, killed by police choke hold

    Following a link on facebook, I was led to one of the most upsetting videos I have seen.
    It's not gory, but it really upset me.

    It shows a man trying to tell the NYPD he had done nothing wrong, that he had just broke up a fight. And the police squeezed and squeezed his neck and didn't stop, even though he kept saying "I can't breathe."
    They kept squeezing until he became silent.

    Warning - link to video:
    http://www.independent.ie/world-news...-30444181.html

    Today they ruled his death a homicide by the medical examiner. I am delighted.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/nypd-cho...ical-examiner/

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    These types of deaths by cops make me so mad I can't see straight! That's pretty over the top to treat a man like that just for selling loose cigarettes. I hope the cop is held accountable, but I don't have much faith in that happening. They nearly always get away with brutality and don't have any repercussions from it. Considering the article said that contributing factors to his death were asthma, heart disease, and obesity, I'd say it will be used as the explanation for his death, even though it was ruled homicide. I despise bully cops!

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    The cop should be charged with murder! There was no reason for all that!

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    The cop will get off probably. Then again the powers that be might be so scared of riots and backlash they may charge him. Just playing devil's advocate for a sec here they did tell him to put his hands behind his back and tried to cuff him when he said "get your hands off me" and jerked his hand away. You just can't do that. Even if you're right you can't do it. The guy's 400 pounds. I'm sure their experience tells them to get a hold of that situation fast. It's a damn shame all the way around. I'd be cool with manslaughter charges... not murder. Cops in America are becoming like Nazi stormtroopers that are above the law.

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    They should charge him because it's the right thing to do.

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    They need to not EVEN be listing this guys health issues prior to the takedown, because as it turned out, the fatal ones occurred in the last seconds of his life. At their hands

    Most likely get off, they almost always do.

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    Every citizen should have a right to contest arrest as long as they don't use violence. I saw nothing to indicate a violent resistance. The victim pulled his hand away in a defensive manner not an offensive manner. Although it's not uncommon for police to use choke holds on aggressive suspects this was uncalled for because the victim immediately started to comply once they moved in aggressively. They ignored his plea for breath and ultimately killed him. Anyone with common sense should know a man with that level of obesity could potentially have health issues let alone a police officer with training. I will agree with manslaughter.
    Last edited by McMorbid; 12-05-2014 at 04:11 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mammy View Post
    These types of deaths by cops make me so mad I can't see straight! That's pretty over the top to treat a man like that just for selling loose cigarettes. I hope the cop is held accountable, but I don't have much faith in that happening. They nearly always get away with brutality and don't have any repercussions from it. Considering the article said that contributing factors to his death were asthma, heart disease, and obesity, I'd say it will be used as the explanation for his death, even though it was ruled homicide. I despise bully cops!
    Me too! I live in a small town and most all of them are this way. I've rarely ran into a nice cop. The likelihood of accountability is low, as you stated. It's like they have a license to kill. And it is almost always justified.

    Quote Originally Posted by McMorbid View Post
    Every citizen should have a right/rite to contest arrest as long as they don't use violence. I saw nothing to indicate a violent resistance. The victim pulled his hand away in a defensive manner not an offensive manner. Although it's not uncommon for police to use choke holds on aggressive suspects this was uncalled for because the victim immediately started to comply once they moved in aggressively. They ignored his plea for breath and ultimately killed him. Anyone with common sense should know a man with that level of obesity could potentially have health issues let alone a police officer with training. I will agree with manslaughter.
    Exactly. Reminds me of the man that had Down's (I believe) and was left in the movie theater while his sitter went to get the car. They killed him. Senseless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by findadeathaddict View Post
    Me too! I live in a small town and most all of them are this way. I've rarely ran into a nice cop. The likelihood of accountability is low, as you stated. It's like they have a license to kill. And it is almost always justified.



    Exactly. Reminds me of the man that had Down's (I believe) and was left in the movie theater while his sitter went to get the car. They killed him. Senseless.
    Three cops in the town I live in shot and killed a guy who my husband and I had worked with for eight years. This happened in 2010. Of course, these cops and the guy I knew were the only ones around at the time and they made damn sure Brandon didn't live to tell his side of the story. Not only did they not face any charges or disciplinary actions, they received awards for their bravery. Yes, I'm still bitter.

    The man you were referring to was Robert Saylor, but he went by Ethan. He is the first person I thought of when I read this thread.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...ncid=webmail22

    I also remember a guy who was caught shoplifting from a Walmart and the store security chased him into the parking lot, pinned him face down on hot asphalt, and kept him there even with him telling them he couldn't breathe and he died. I wanna say it happened in Texas, but I'm not sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mammy View Post
    Three cops in the town I live in shot and killed a guy who my husband and I had worked with for eight years. This happened in 2010. Of course, these cops and the guy I knew were the only ones around at the time and they made damn sure Brandon didn't live to tell his side of the story. Not only did they not face any charges or disciplinary actions, they received awards for their bravery. Yes, I'm still bitter.

    The man you were referring to was Robert Saylor, but he went by Ethan. He is the first person I thought of when I read this thread.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...ncid=webmail22

    I also remember a guy who was caught shoplifting from a Walmart and the store security chased him into the parking lot, pinned him face down on hot asphalt, and kept him there even with him telling them he couldn't breathe and he died. I wanna say it happened in Texas, but I'm not sure.
    It appears anyone can get a badge, and once they do - look out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by findadeathaddict View Post
    It appears anyone can get a badge, and once they do - look out.
    I thought of another one. Remember Errol Shaw? He was a deaf mute carrying a garden rake and an officer claimed Errol came at him with the rake in a threatening manner and refused to drop the rake like he was told, so he shot and killed him. Um, the guy was deaf, how could he hear a command? David Krupinski killed Errol Shaw in front of his family while they screamed at him that Mr. Shaw was deaf and couldn't hear the commands. Of course, Krupinski was acquitted.

    Then there was the murder of Amadou Diallo who was fired at 41 times through a closed door and hit 19 times by 4 cops. Those cops were acquitted, too.

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    This seems a lot like the guy killed by a cop gang beating in Moore, OK. not so long ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cleanskull View Post
    This seems a lot like the guy killed by a cop gang beating in Moore, OK. not so long ago.
    I hadn't heard about that one. I've got some googling to do.

    I'm guessing this is the guy? OMG, that's horrible! I can't believe I hadn't heard about him before now.

    http://www.news9.com/story/24735856/...ather-to-death
    Last edited by Mammy; 08-04-2014 at 06:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mammy View Post
    I thought of another one. Remember Errol Shaw? He was a deaf mute carrying a garden rake and an officer claimed Errol came at him with the rake in a threatening manner and refused to drop the rake like he was told, so he shot and killed him. Um, the guy was deaf, how could he hear a command? David Krupinski killed Errol Shaw in front of his family while they screamed at him that Mr. Shaw was deaf and couldn't hear the commands. Of course, Krupinski was acquitted.

    Then there was the murder of Amadou Diallo who was fired at 41 times through a closed door and hit 19 times by 4 cops. Those cops were acquitted, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by cleanskull View Post
    This seems a lot like the guy killed by a cop gang beating in Moore, OK. not so long ago.
    If they don't exist, we need threads on these as well as on the documentary I just watched about Zachary Andrew Turner (Bagby). We need one on that one too. If you haven't watched the docu, please do. It's posted in the Documentaries thread.

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    We know of one crooked cop who got what he deserved, Drew Peterson! I was so glad when that arrogant, smug bastard was convicted and taken away.

    More crooked cops are Charlie Trice, Sam Parker, Craig Peyer, David Camm, David Brame, and those are just the ones who immediately popped into my mind.

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    This whole thing is sad with the NY Tabloid media.
    What about his grieving Family?
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    I find it really interesting that this case has received so little attention in comparison to the Michael Brown shooting. Here, we have video which clearly shows police misbehavior towards somebody who was not acting violent. With Brown, we don't have video of the actual shooting, and there is a dispute about what actually happened. To say nothing of the fact that Brown robbed a convenience store. Wouldn't Eric Garner be a better person to rally behind for Jackson and Sharpton?
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    grand jury nears decision. this case has been under the radar but could be explosive if there is no indictment

    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/grand-jur...hokehold-case/

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    Quote Originally Posted by cash View Post
    grand jury nears decision. this case has been under the radar but could be explosive if there is no indictment

    http://www.mediaite.com/tv/grand-jur...hokehold-case/
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    Quote Originally Posted by cleanskull View Post
    Only 26 more looting days 'till Christmas.
    hahaha That's funny

    I wonder why the media and racist groups like Al's focused so much on Michael Brown and not this case. I guess maybe because this death could be considered accidental and the other was nothing close to accidental. But if the goal is to expose unfair treatment of police on african americans this case seems a much better example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StewartGilliganGriffin View Post
    hahaha That's funny

    I wonder why the media and racist groups like Al's focused so much on Michael Brown and not this case. I guess maybe because this death could be considered accidental and the other was nothing close to accidental. But if the goal is to expose unfair treatment of police on african americans this case seems a much better example.
    I've been saying the exact same thing. I mean, there's VIDEO of this, for God's sake.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StewartGilliganGriffin View Post
    If the goal is to expose unfair treatment of police on african americans this case seems a much better example.
    Yes! I was having this discussion with an attorney friend a few days ago. Although the MB case has stirred up some strong emotions, the facts of that case are poor in terms of a true example of unfair treatment/excessive force towards black people at the hands of law enforcement. This is exactly the type of case that has far more impact IMHO. The above is wrong. He's not trying to harm the officer that I can see. He calms down after they get a bit more aggressive... that should have been the end of it.

    We can see the video. We don't have any ambiguity as to the events that unfolded... And furthermore, Garner was cooperating with police and ultimately died because he was choked to death... not because an officer was genuinely in fear of his life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StewartGilliganGriffin View Post
    hahaha That's funny

    I wonder why the media and racist groups like Al's focused so much on Michael Brown and not this case. I guess maybe because this death could be considered accidental and the other was nothing close to accidental. But if the goal is to expose unfair treatment of police on african americans this case seems a much better example.
    Agreed.

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    No indictment.

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    That's some bullshit. This is when people should protest.
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    That's what I was thinking.

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    Sad case. It's like the grand jury wanted to say "Who are you going to believe, us or your lying eyes?" Grief for the Garner family and hopes that someone with a higher authority will make a sensible ruling.

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    Why does the media ignore this case?
    That is the 64000 dollar question

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    This case is totally different from Michael Brown. There should have been an indictment on this one. Sad.
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    I'm noticing a number of trends down south.... It's terribly sad.

    Anyways, I don't understand how a choke hold being illegal for a cop to use which ultimately resulted in the death of this man isn't punishable, let alone how it's just brushed off without any much question... Talk about a reason to protest.
    Last edited by beep; 12-03-2014 at 04:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bayou Queen View Post
    This case is totally different from Michael Brown. There should have been an indictment on this one. Sad.
    yup... I am having a real hard time with this one
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    I don't understand how a jury watched this video and didn't issue an indictment.

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    This man should have been the focus. Eric Garner should be the name people are talking about and protesting for. (protesting.. not looting) I don't understand why there is no outrage. How very sad. 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by SheeBee View Post
    This man should have been the focus. Eric Garner should be the name people are talking about and protesting for. (protesting.. not looting) I don't understand why there is no outrage. How very sad. 2
    They're protesting right now. http://www.newsday.com/news/new-york...rges-1.9676351
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    Thank you for the update.

    Not sure why my computer is putting random numbers behind my post.



    0


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    Last edited by SheeBee; 12-03-2014 at 05:04 PM.

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    oh my freaking god I can't believe it. what the hell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McMorbid View Post
    That's some bullshit. This is when people should protest.
    Yeppers.
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  38. #38
    Well that was fubar... This is one that really should have severe punishment. The second Garner started saying "I can't breath" should have been a sign to stop immediately that he was basically subdued, beyond the fact that they should not have done it in the first place. The fact that they weren't indicted wasn't right so hopefully pensions will be suspended indefinitely as well as termination of employment with pretty much a black-listing from working in any PD to start. When it comes to this case I could understand a civil suit.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by findadeathaddict View Post
    I don't understand how a jury watched this video and didn't issue an indictment.
    It was the same with the beating of Rodney King years ago. Remember that one? At least that one went to trial, and we could all see with our own eyes the savage and utterly gratuitous beating being administered to someone already subdued and offering no resistance at all. Yet the jury aquitted the police officers and Los Angeles erupted. This is difficult to understand except by positing racist juries who think that beating up on black guys just because they are black is OK.

    It does seem that America has a problem with police being able to get away with brutality way too easily, especially towards black people.
    Last edited by Doughbake1; 12-04-2014 at 02:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doughbake1 View Post
    It was the same with the beating of Rodney King years ago. Remember that one? At least that one went to trial, and we could all see with our own eyes the savage and utterly gratuitous beating being administered to someone already subdued and offering no resistance at all. Yet the jury aquitted the police officers and Los Angeles erupted. This is difficult to understand except by positing racist juries who think that beating up on black guys just because they are black is OK.

    It does seem that America has a problem with police being able to get away with brutality way too easily, especially towards black people.
    Agreed. The video speaks for itself.

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    Normally I think a cop should have the benefit of the doubt as the tend to deal with criminals that would lie about being treated badly.

    After having seen the video in this case i can only say that the amount of force used by the police was way out of proportion and these guys should be on trial for murder.
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    Every time I think about this, I am reminded of high school wrestling (where choke holds are illegal) and how coach told us "If you can say 'ref, he's choking me' guess what - he ain't choking you."

    I wonder if all of the people seated on the grand jury were once high school wrestlers, because that is the only way their decision makes any sense to me.



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    There is a lesson here. When a cop tells you to do something.... do it. The second he snatched his hand back and said "get your hands off me" he became a target of rough treatment. He was breaking the law. If he had listened to the officers command he would be alive today. He just didn't want to go to jail. He could have explained the asthma before he got taken down. Too busy being righteous. As I said awhile back... manslaughter maybe; murder no way. Some calm talking might have worked. Maybe a tazer. Cops do get too rough at times. It's a fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StewartGilliganGriffin View Post
    There is a lesson here. When a cop tells you to do something.... do it. The second he snatched his hand back and said "get your hands off me" he became a target of rough treatment. He was breaking the law. If he had listened to the officers command he would be alive today. He just didn't want to go to jail. He could have explained the asthma before he got taken down. Too busy being righteous. As I said awhile back... manslaughter maybe; murder no way. Some calm talking might have worked. Maybe a tazer. Cops do get too rough at times. It's a fact.
    Well stated Stewart

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    Quote Originally Posted by StewartGilliganGriffin View Post
    There is a lesson here. When a cop tells you to do something.... do it. The second he snatched his hand back and said "get your hands off me" he became a target of rough treatment. He was breaking the law. If he had listened to the officers command he would be alive today. He just didn't want to go to jail. He could have explained the asthma before he got taken down. Too busy being righteous. As I said awhile back... manslaughter maybe; murder no way. Some calm talking might have worked. Maybe a tazer. Cops do get too rough at times. It's a fact.
    Very true. Don't fight.
    I think the cops got into "fight" mode and saw red. But this situation is manslaughter. But a grand jury decided it wasn't.

    My astonishment comes from the people that didn't make this man their protest point. Instead they take a thug and make him their poster boy. This case is a good fight for excessive police aggression. Now the media has picked up on it. But the protest have been moving and peaceful. So that will equal boring and the media will move on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StewartGilliganGriffin View Post
    There is a lesson here. When a cop tells you to do something.... do it.
    No.... no no no. Do not go down that road.
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  47. #47
    Cops won't debate with you. They won't argue with you. They won't listen while you complain about the last cop who arrested you. They don't need proof that you did something wrong in order to question you. Just shut up and do what they say. If you won't cooperate, it'll end badly for you. That's how it is.

    In all these cases, the person who was stopped adamantly refused to cooperate. That's the common thread. EVERY SINGLE TIME. Be smart and learn from that.

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    Cops can't just harass you without probable cause though. But they tend to get away with whatever they want. All cops should have to wear vest cameras to prevent abuse of power. Cops will fuck you up and nothing will ever happen to them. Many cops are good people but way too many are crooked as they come.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McMorbid View Post
    Cops can't just harass you without probable cause though. But they tend to get away with whatever they want. All cops should have to wear vest cameras to prevent abuse of power. Cops will fuck you up and nothing will ever happen to them. Many cops are good people but way too many are crooked as they come.
    This!! I've seen it first hand. My daughter's EX BF wanted to get back at her. So her mother sent a sheriff deputy "friend" to my house and the guy proceeded to intimidate my child and threaten to arrest her over something another child did. I filed a complaint with the sheriff's office. He won't come back to my house again, I can promise you that. He used his gun and his uniform to attempt to settle a score between two teens that he knew nothing about. He didn't check in via radio with the SD to let them know he was on my property. They had no record of him even having reason to be at my home. He got his ass reamed.

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  50. #50
    I'm not saying this as someone who loves cops. I don't. But think about it. If the cops had to stand around and jaw with you about all your objections before they could act, what would everyone do? I believe you can deduce the answer to that. It's the same reason prison guards don't tolerate backtalk or disobedience. If one prisoner gets away with it, they'll all do it.
    Last edited by Skiddledy Gumbo; 12-05-2014 at 11:55 AM.

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