Lisa Steinberg
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notoriou...einberg/1.html
http://www.crimelibrary.com/notoriou...einberg/1.html
Has anybody read the book "What Lisa Saw?" I want to read it, but my library doesn't have it.
Such a heartbreaking story. That poor child and her poor birth mother. Thinking she was giving her child to a loving home. Joel should burn in the deepest circle of hell for what he did.
OMG, OMG.
I remember this
I'd like to pull the switch on that bastard
How could I ever forget little Lisa Steinberg. That story was heartbreaking. Remember the black and blue beat up wife? She endured alot of crap from that monster. I'm the 2nd one who would've like to pull the switch on that monster.
I remember the house being a mess too.
I was just thinking about Lisa the other day but I couldn't remember her last name! God Bless that little soul!
Just asking for opinions here--
Do you guys think that Hedda Nussbaum is just as guilty as Joel Steinberg??
What are your thoughts on her role in all of this?
I think that Hedda was beaten down both mentally and physically by that filthy animal, Joel Steinberg. She was beaten so severely, and for such a length of time that among other things, she was brain damaged and impaired. The cycle of abuse is a scary thing.....and it burns my ass that that Pig, Joel Steinberg is now a free man !!!
I think Hedda was so beaten, physically and emotionally, as well as brain-washed that not only could she not save Lisa, she couldn't save herself!
Steinberg began to beat Nussbaum long before kids were brought into the house. And she admittedly ignored it, and thought he was her whole world. There is no excuse for her passivity. None.
I could just cry thinking about what the poor little child went through. I can not even imigane. And I don't think the switch is enough.
Senior Death Hag
Hedda is just as guilty as Joel. She knew what he was capable of. Does anyone know whatever happened to Mitchell?
i have always remembered this case~ i can't believe he is joel is out~
dispicable!!!~
Oh I remeber this story..just horrible! he needs to burn for what he did..and I really don't know which way I lean with Hedda..she really should have stepped up and protected that little girl. Reading that article I learned I share the same Birthday as Lisa. Different year of course.
Originally Posted by cachluv
Yup I know she was beaten to but she was just as guilty as joel
and should have spent time in jail.
To many people use abuse as a excuse.
I don't think Hedda is just as guilty. I know it's hard to understand how a person could let this happen to a kid, but when you come from that sort of environment; it's pretty easy to understand it. She was abused mentally and physcially by a monster. When you live that life, you pray the next blow kills you. You learn to not do anything to set the abuser off. To me, she was beaten down so horribly, she didn't know what to do anymore. Just my 2 cents.
I cannot believe that bastard got out.
I remember this case and one of the most disturbing things was how monsterous Hedda looked. After the years with Joe and the beatings she looked scary! Hard to believe Lisa came from these two creeps... it looks like Hedda wrote a book http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/cus...917623#gallery in 2005. Still playing the victim and Gloria Steinem even did the intro.
Oh please. She knew what was what! She sure as hell knew her what her rights were when her and that piece of shit Steinberg were first charged with the attempted murder of Lisa. And I'll tell you who else is guilty as far as I am concerned... her worthless family! She endured YEARS of abuse and no one in her family could see anything wrong with her?!? Yeah right! Please... I was in a relationship once... that I was just truly not happy in it... my family and friends could SEE IT! And her family was around... because they sure as hell did their damndest to try and prove her "oh so poor innocence." Don't get me wrong... yes, I know she was abused, VERY abused.. but she knew full well what the hell was going on.
It would have taken one punch for me and I would have been gone. She doesn't sound like she was wrapped too tight from the get go. This guy was "her world?"Give me a break Hedda.
As a woman who has survived spousal abuse I must say a couple of things regarding Hedda's involvement or lack thereof.
My ex never hit his children..thank God! I however received the brunt of his brutality and have the scars to show for it...it didn't happen from day one, it was a methodical process to bring me down so emotionally, mentally and spiritually that by the time the beatings started I had no strength to fight back or to leave. He had me terrified that if I told anyone or if I left that he would kill me. Now, from my observations of Hedda she was far worse off then I ever was before that little girl entered the picture...is she guilty of not getting help? well yes she is...was she in a frame of mind to understand at that point that what he was doing was wrong? probably not...when your abuser convinces you that you got it coming...that you are the problem...that you can't do anything about it...you believe them...they make you believe them! My ex would it me in front of his kids/or behind closed doors with the kids in the other room...but he never hit them...does that make what he did okay? no of course not...my former step kids should have never witnessed that and I do feel a responsibility that they did. Can I say for certain that if he did I would have done something about it? Yes if he hit them I would have...but IMO as bad as my abuse was I don't think it held a candle to what that woman and child endured, he came close to killing Hedda more than once...there is culpability on many sides...not just Hedda's, family and children services also failed that child. Abuse is never okay...and I'm not negating what I went through as if "it was okay because it wasn't AS BAD as hers) it was bad enough trust me...the abuser uses control as a weapon...they isolate..manipulate and facilitate any means to control their victim, my ex kept me away from my family, friends and medical officials for over 8 years. When his family noticed the marks he then isolated me from them...it took my reaching out through the EAP to get a plan/money/safe house/etc in order to escape him...to this day (7 years later) he still seeks me out and tells anyone that will listen that he will "kill me" for what I did to him? I left under police protection is what I did...he went to jail...he got out of jail and escaped his sentence because of a technicality he has remarried..twice both women having kids that he has verbally abused and some reports are physically abused...I carry a gun, have a rather sophisticated security system on my home and am very well prepared to do what it is I have to do...but...when I was with him I wasn't strong enough to protect ME...abuse sucks...and I think this poor woman didn't have the strength or the means to know how to protect herself or this little girl...hopefully she learned how to...I know it took me a while to learn how. Okay end of my rant...carry on!
I appreciate you post dearheart and thank you for you candidness. Some women are ment to be mothers and others aren't. You obviously are a good mother to your children who made a bad choice in men. Hedda was not a googd mother and never should have been one. She is obviously sick (mentally) and didn't posess the common sense to get out (at the expense of her child). Unfortunately there are thousands of women in abusive relationships. Hedda was obviously a victim but she was also an accessory.
wasn't she adopted, tho not legally?, i wonder how the little boy they found also is now?~
I heard he was reunited with his birth mother after the arrests but I haven't heard any updates.
Here is an interview from Steinberg right after he was released from prison. He still insists that he did not do it.
http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/people/features/9607/
Sorry about the multiple posts but I found this interview Hedda did with Larry King, I thought that you might find this one interesting too.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/abusive/abusive1.html
I can totally relate with the pattern that developed in her abuse by this man...it is so consistent and I can tell up to this interview at least that he still has a controlling factor over her...it's a typical. I know that I have difficulty in my current relationships because of my abuse...One thing in particular that struck me was her statement "I didn't want anyone to know I was battered" I so understand that...even to this day I have difficulty saying it out loud...people always question "why didn't you do this...why didn't you do that" the answer is I don't know why I didn't or did do this or that THEN" other than you are scared shitless...I still remember the first time my ex got physical with me and my reaction...I was the one apologizing to HIM!? for pushing him to that point...By no means am I stating that her not getting help sooner for Lisa is excusable...none of these reasons for her not are "excuses" they are reasons and unless you experience that type of abuse and control it's very difficult to understand why and how it happens...I feel for her, not as much as I feel for that little girl of course...and I didn't know he was out of prison? *shudder*
goes to show though that abuse still isn't taken as seriously as it needs to be taken if all he got was manslaughter and is already out...he was release in 2004...she died in 87 so he served a 17 year sentence for battering a child to death?? my ex came after me with a knife..beat me and raped me and served a total of 2 days in jail...to this day has a warrant for his arrest and walks free...hmmmm? if he had been a stranger on the street that got caught he would have served more than 2 days...if Joel Steinberg had abducted her and did this he would be looking at life in the minimum...well..I know that I will NEVER be battered again by any man! That much I did learn...hopefully Hedda has too? I don't give a fuck what Joel has or hasn't learned as long as he doesn't hurt anyone else...may that little girl rest in peace
"On january 16, 2007 the New York Supreme Court, Appellate Division (New York's intermediate appellate court) upheld a $15 million dollar award against Steinberg to Michele Launders, Lisa's birth mother."
"On two occasions, Steinberg was denied discretionary parole, mainly because he never expressed remorse for the killing"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joel_Steinberg
what a piece of shit. end of story.
Last edited by reddawn17; 12-11-2007 at 12:58 PM.
From wikipedia: " the other child in the case ended up being reunited with his natural mother, Nicole Bridget Smigiel, who then legally changed the boy's first name to Travis. "
Mizizvogue I agree with you. Hedda's face showed it all. A woman who lets an animal like Joel Steinberg do this to her is beat down. She was brainwashed mentally, physically, emotionally. She just gave up and let him have his way with her. She wanted him to kill her. She mentally could not fight back. This was a sad story. She probably saw the girl get beat and she could not muster up the strength to protect her. She was emotionally dead.
I do belive that Hedda was a victim of domestic violence. Of course the catch phase, "domestic violence victim" wasn't a household word bak then. (Who have OJ Simpson to thank for that.)
But I am a mother. I USED to be a victim of domestic violence. But once I was 2 months pregnant and the asshole gave me a black eye...I KNEW it was time to get away. It's one thing if it's you getting hit. The woman makes a choice to stay there. But a child can't get up and leave. I believe Hedda had a responsibility to get Lisa out of harm's way. So I think she is guilty too. Not as guilty as Joel....but she still let her daughter down.
Do you guys think that if Hedda had carried and delivered Lisa herself, then she would have more opt to get help?
And does anyone know where Lisa's brother is. I know the birth mom came and was granted custody of the boy again...but where is he now?
And I do agree that Hedda was "brainwashed" but she was also a crack addict at the time. She made sure Joel got her high while Lisa lay dying in the bathroom.
Last edited by SistaSara; 12-11-2007 at 08:26 PM.
Failure to protect is failure.
But what about Hedda? Come on, I've been in an abusive, scary relationship before, but in no way EVER would I sit there smoking crack while I thought my kid was injured in the bathroom because my boyfriend said "he could fix her".
Sorry, I don't buy it. She's as guilty as he is in her death, though I do feel more sympathetic to her, because she was obviously an abused, tortured soul.
Joel should not be out of prison. No way, no how.
Renowned Death Hag
l saw an episode of 'law and order' today - the good old ones with chris noth etc - based on lisa's murder.
l was crying even before l realized it was based on a real case.
so then l read up all l could on lisa
the whole thing is so very sad. l can't even imagine how the birth mother felt/feels, trusting that her child was being given a good life, and having the very very worst happen.
l didn't know til right now that that bastard joel is now free
why wasn't he charged with murder? goddam l wish he was executed for what he did.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Joel has had to move at least once since he got out because his neighbors are creating a stink about him being near them. I hope they never let up. His life outside of jail gets reported on once in a while here and he may be having a harder time on the outside than he did inside.
I believe I read that while in jail he could help prisoners with legal issues since he is a lawyer. He must have felt like a big man then. But no one wants his help now. Karma is treating him well here.
He set the adoption of Lisa himself and never told the real mother that he was keeping the baby himself. He did the same with the son. I don't think he really went after the boy before he killed Lisa. He let him be.
Hedda probably didn't know how to deal with that either. When you are abused like she was, you have to realize that comes from somewhere. She may have been abused her entire life in different ways but different people. When that happens to you, you really don't know that others don't live live that and you never understand you can go.
i remember this story. i heard it on the news. my child was only a baby when it happened. she will soon be 21 years old. boy does time fly. that was the one of the saddest stories i ever heard. joel is now out of jail. i wonder what became of the baby boy they adopted?? i know his birth mom got him back quick, fast ,and in a hurry. i just wonder how he is doing.
I read the NY Post usually and I did read somthing about the son when Joel was released. If anyone wants to search their archieves you may find it. I cannot recall what was written for the life of me.
Meanwhile, (I am assuming this is Mitchell) the other child in the case ended up being reunited with his natural mother, Nicole Bridget Smigiel, who then legally changed the boy's first name to Travis.
I volunteer for a place that takes in abused children women and men. I have seen some horrible things . These people are afraid of their own shadows. Unless you yourself have ever been abused child, mother,wife or husband you shouldn't judge these people that stay. They usually have low self esteem in the first place. Many were abused verbally or physically as a child. you know the statement "look what you made me do" after you smack a kid 10 or 15 times? Well listen up this kid beleives they were beaten because they were wrong. SO then you seek another person to abuse you when you get older. Of course the first time this person beats you it is "look what you make me do" and of course this person who has heard this all their believes it. They become numb . Some actually gather the courage to get out when the kids start coming especially if the partner is now abusing the kids. SOME not all because they are afraid of the abuser. "if you try to leave me I will kill you" I will kill the kids". It is called mind fucking. This abused person may not love the abuser any more but it is now fear that keeps them there. Fear because most of the time if someone calls the cops and the cops don't take him/her away they really get beat after the cops leaves or they know when this person gets out of jail they are going to kill them. Where do they run? Where do they hide?
What if the husband had money like slimeball did? This woman was brain damaged from his beatings. He kept her closeted in that apartment.
She may as well of been a POW because that is what she was in the house of war and he was the punisher.
Abuse was not an excuse . Abuse detroys what people once were. Her face was totally disfigured from his beatings. The child was full of bruises and this woman couldn't function enough to save that child. Abuse was the reason that child died and abuse was the reason that woman couldn't save her. I have seen that fear on peoples faces and you could almost smell that fear in the room.
i couldn't even finish reading it. absolutely disgusting. i think we should hang him.
I remember this case as it happened when I was a kid; I'm reading the details I was too young to understand now.
Convicting him on manslaughter as opposed to second degree murder with depraved indifference? Complete BS.
I remember this case very well.
I can not believe he's out, but I guess there again is the justice system. Sometimes it works, sometimes it does not.
You gotta believe that there is a special place in hell for him.
I remember when this happened and it made me sick too. I also believe Hedda should have been held responsible for what happened. Gee how nice she went on to do children's books. I hope she thinks of Lisa every day until the day she dies!
I have to agree karen.
For those of you that are interested in this tragic case, I thoroughly recommend that you read "Waverley Place" by Susan Brownmiller which is a fictionalised account of the case with names changed etc; it's unputdownable once you start reading it. It's out of print now but I managed to get a copy very cheaply on Amazon.
Lisa was a beautiful child.
Looking at her picture makes me wonder what she would look like today and what she might have accomplished.
RIP Lisa, I know you are in a better place.
RIP Lisa.
So very sad.
I always thought that a woman who is severely abused is like slowly adding hot water to a frogs tank. If the water is heated slowly enough the frog wont jump out even if it would be easy to do so. The frogs body will adapt until he will eventually boil to death. The abused woman s reality is so slowly changed, she loses touch with what is real or not what is acceptable and whats not.
I agree! People should never judge someone in this sort of situation, unless they know how it feels, or what its like to truly be a battered woman. I have never personally been one, but I was raised by one. I saw everything she went through. She managed to get away, and is now the Executive Director of a non-profit organazation called Center Against Sexual and Domestic Abuse (CASDA for short) I am extremely proud of my mother, and do not hold her responsible for anything me or my siblings endured as children. She did the best she could, and I will never know the full extent of what she went through. I took a training at CASDA once to become a Volunteer Advocate, and learned someinteresting things. My mother admitted to me, and everyone else in the room, that during her abusive relationship, she felt so out of control, and felt like there was no way to escape, that she considered killing me, my brothers, and herself. Obviously I am glad it didnt come to this, but to hear that from your own mother is surreal.
Sunshine, I have never read anything that helps explain DV quite like your "Frog theory" I thank you, and hope it helps some people become more understanding.
I know people are going to diagree with me, but the emotional/physical abuse defense should never have stood up. The insanity defense is used too loosely in the courts. If a person can tell the difference between Right and Wrong, there still needs to be culpability for the crimes.
While Steinberg inflicted the fatal blows to the child, regardless of how frightened Hedda Nussbaum may have been, she still knew the child needed help, and should have acted accordingly.
Renowned Death Hag
IIRC, Hedda Nussbaum wrote a couple of children's books BEFORE the adoption of Lisa, but under a pen name, which I can only recall the first, "Joanne". I remember looking for them when I used to take my son to the library soon after the crime hit the news. The library probably still carries them, since there was no indication of the author's real name, and, being science-oriented, probably not entirely her work anyway.
But that was it--- except for her memoir (and who knows how much of THAT she REALLY wrote?)
I..saw..the..photos..of..her..face..and..physical
condition...No...doubt..of..it....I..think..there
were..also..some..personality..conditions..with
this..woman..as..well....But...thats..why
he..preyed..on..her....He..was..a..monster.
The..surveillance..photo..from..him..at
the..toll..booth..with..little..Lisa..in..the..car
If..I..remember.the..toll..booth..worker..noticed..or..felt..something..was..wrong?
Heartbreaking.....Just..heartbreaking.
That..scared..lonely..little..girl.
And..what..happened..to..the..brother.?
Wasnt..there..another..child..as..well?
Last edited by Long Gone Day; 02-15-2009 at 09:36 PM.
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