SheJay ... scroll back to find the link on Naked Suicides. It was written by an MD and has sufficient information on why Rebecca was motivated to commit suicide in this way.
SheJay ... scroll back to find the link on Naked Suicides. It was written by an MD and has sufficient information on why Rebecca was motivated to commit suicide in this way.
Im sorry I still think she was murdered.
Administrator
So do I Lisa
Only two tabloids are covering this case, attempting to create evidence where none exists.
The family simply isn't ready to deal with the fact they couldn't save their sister.
ann bremner and zahau's sister were on jane velez mitchell friday night. the phone call that she supposedly got at 1 a.m. telling her that the boy was not going to make it?
never happened per cell phone records.
This case stinks to high hell. I'm still not buying suicide.
Something about that message on the door.....
.
It is still uncommon for a woman to commit suicide while nude, then to, also, do it outside in an open area makes it even more unlikely.
If she were really feeling guilt, a more appropriate place to hang herself would have been from the banister inside the house. You have suicides that are committed in close "safe" areas, like the bathroom or bedroom...
Not only was she nude, her hands and feet were bound, she had a t-shirt wrapped around her neck AND stuffed in her mouth. There was tape residue on her... WITH trauma found to her head. Then to add onto all that instead of hanging herself in the house, she was found outside.
Whomever killed her wanted to make her out to look like as much of an embarrassing joke as possible.
Does Anne Bremner have proof or was this just another of her statements to garner publicity?Originally Posted by NewYorkDoll
(Anne Bemner was arrested for a DUI and lied to the Oregon courts for over a year stating she was physically ill not drunk. She finally confessed in September 2011 for being drunk.)
i am aware of ann bremner's dui.
they said on jvm that there were no phone records of that call. i was just posting what i heard on HLN.
i believe that this *suicide* case deserves to be reopened.
To re-open a case you need evidence. Sherriff Bill Gore has stated if new evidence is presented he will re-open the case.
Up to this point nothing but pandering and posturing from Bremner, no evidence.
I don't see Bremner's DUI as an issue, but I do however, see her lying for over a year as a court appointed official an issue.
Renowned Death Hag
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."
How about the dust on the balcony and they only found her footprints there? If there was a struggle it would have been disturbed.
Renowned Death Hag
Some Doc's wanna say female nude suicide can happen - okay I get that. The problem I am having is the fact that it is nude suicide along with bound hands and feet and what's with the shirt shoved in her mouth?
I agree, the "message" is just too vague .
My Posse's On Broadway
There is a difference between manic driven tabloid reports and journalistic coverage ...
LA Times ...
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...spreckels.html
Snipped ...
But Shacknai said a review of the findings of the Coronado Police Department, San Diego County Sheriff's Department and San Diego County medical examiner might bring some peace to Zahau's family, which cannot believe she killed herself.
Shacknai said his family is being harmed by "vicious speculation and innuendo in certain media outlets" about the deaths.
Shacknai said a review would "further enhance the public's confidence in the integrity of the law-enforcement process and finally bring closure to these terrible tragedies."
He sent a request to California Atty. Gen. Kamala Harris.
(I think the issue with the t-shirt is easily explained. Wrapping it around her neck under the tow line was a way to minimize her pain. Rebecca knowing full well Adam was close by, she gagged herself to avoid screaming out and being discovered).
With some suicide attempts the victim hopes to be found, and with others they want no interfernce with the process.
ok.
Ok so this might be a wacky theory but it popped in my head last night as I was watching coverage of this case. I have no real opinion either way at this point whether it was murder or suicide, but it if was murder, here's what I thought about the message on the door.
Maybe at some point, Jonah Shacknai told somebody that Rebecca saved him. As in, maybe he was sad before he met her about his divorce and not seeing his son all the time, and she "saved him" from all that. OR maybe when Rebecca quit work to take care of Max full time, Jonah might have told someone "wow, she really saved me." It could have just been an offhand remark to someone at some point after he met Rebecca.
So the "him" in the message could be Jonah. She saved him. Can/will he save her?
Sign on San Diego ...
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...e-re-examined/
Zahauâ??s phone had been searched manually, Nesbit said. It will now be examined with a new Windows-based operating system, he said. Nesbit said the case was not being reopened, but if â??something relevantâ? was found, that could be a possibility.
Renowned Death Hag
San Diegans (at least the ones who read the local rag) want the case reopened:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/polls/...els-m/results/
No proof offered San Diegans are the one's voting in this poll.
(Once links are provided anywhere it opens the possibility to national and international voting.)
The, "real," San Diegans, of which I am, one are satisfied with the conclusion of this case.
Renowned Death Hag
I'm a native San Diegan (born in San Diego in 1960) and have lived here for 49 of my 51 years. I figure this makes me a "real" San Diegan as well. I, for one, am not satisfied with the conclusion. I'm definitely not the only one.
I've lived in California for most of my life, 12 years in North County, and in automotive managment the last five years. I have friends in the SD and a good friend in the CA San Diego JD.
And I have found more people are upset with the media than are questioning the case. This is an attempt to do the same thing with this case as the CA case, create a media frenzy with no evidence to support the charges.
Examples ...
Red tow line missing from balcony photos, (tabloid driven). Last nights news had a video of the Shacknai mansion, with red tow line hanging.
Phone records challenged, no factual evidence provided, only innuendo.
Scream heard from neighbor, (tabloid driven). Adam Shacknai did not report a scream, Rebecca's younger sister was in the home, no scream reported, no other neighbors reported unusual noise.
Administrator
I still feel that she was murdered. I mean t-shirt in mouth , hands and feet bound, tape residue on her body, and hanging naked, I don't care what some people or experts say , a woman will not commit suicide in the nude. If one does it's a very very very rare case, and only if it was done on the bathtub and slitting wrists.
Renowned Death Hag
I don't know if she actually killed herself or not, but the whole thing just stinks. I mean the rarity of a female hanging herself nude is one thing, but doing so publicly? The house was huge with plenty of private inside places she could do it. Why do it outside in such a display?
To understand the living, you got to commune with the dead.
Minerva
Administrator
I don't think she killed herself either, and why do it where everyone can see, like a said women will not commit suicide by hanging and do it naked and where people can see, I have seen a lot of death pictures of women hanging , for the job I do, and in each of them 1 or two may be out of hundreds.
Renowned Death Hag
There are much easier ways to exit oneself isn't there? This case just seems too odd to me.
To understand the living, you got to commune with the dead.
Minerva
Administrator
Exactly, women will find the least painful way to die, most women that want to kill themselves will take an overdose, or jump to their deaths.
With all due respect, you are not an authority on suicide, much less female suicide. I find it extremely odd that you are speaking in such absolutes. To say this never happens is extremely naive.
Not always
Renowned Death Hag
I had a friend who, a couple of months ago, took a couple handfuls of pills, slit her wrists and then drowned in the bathtub. She had tried before to kill herself and was "saved." This last time she wanted to be sure she couldn't be saved no matter what. I felt so badly that she was in such pain that she couldn't imagine going on one more day feeling that badly. In Rebecca's case, while I think its entirely possible that this was as the police say, a suicide, it just seems rather quick to make such a drastic decision. I mean in some ways she did have to do some planning, but not days in advance. When there is no note explaining a person's actions or a history of depression or attempts at suicide, I think its just hard to accept that it was really what the person wanted to do without so much as reaching out for help. They say suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem and if the person would just give it a day they usually change their minds. I just feel badly that there is no clear cut answer for those who love her and never saw this coming.
To understand the living, you got to commune with the dead.
Minerva
I've been wondering if this was something she'd been thinking of, maybe in despair when he first fell, & off & on afterwards. Then when she learned his fate was sealed, she went through with it.
I agree flower, put all the evidence together and it looks very odd indeed. I suppose it's possible though rare that a woman would hang herself nude outside, but who the hell would tape their feet together, then tare it off, hit themself over the head, stick a gag in their mouth?! I mean, really? If this is suicide, it's the most bizarre case of it I've ever heard of.
Renowned Death Hag
The case with me is the opposite, most of the people I've talked to about this are skeptical of the official conclusions. The cynic in me says that this is a case where the authorities would have to go up against a rich guy with expensive lawyers. Police, law, and judicial careers have been ruined, a-la-OJ Simpson, going after such big fish. I think they arrived at the safe, easy conclusion.
I"m leaning on the side of agreeing with you Barbossa. Money talks in American courts.
Renowned Death Hag
As the mystery surrounding the death of Rebecca Zahau grows, another unexplained footprint has surfaced, in the bedroom where she was moments before she allegedly hanged herself RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned.
Dr. Maurice Godwin, a forensic expert hired by the Zahau family, told RadarOnline.com that a shoe impression on the carpet in the bedroom is unknown and may not have come from police but from someone else not yet identified.
"The toe is actually underneath the foot of the bed," Dr. Godwin told RadarOnline.com about the shoe print in the photo given to RadarOnline.com that was part of the police evidence. "This could suggest that it is likely not from the police."
Rebecca's naked body was found hanging from the balcony at her boyfriend Jonah Shackani's historic Spreckels Mansion in Coronado, CA in July, two days after his son, Max, 6 was found unconscious at the base of the stairs. Max later died from his injuries.
Police have said that Rebecca hanged herself after receiving a distressing call from Shacknai telling her that his son's health had taken a turn for the worse. They have said she was alone in the home, but her family disputes this assertion and have said they think she was murdered.
According to Dr. Godwin's examination there was an unknown shoe impression in the bedroom where the police have said Rebecca was before she hanged herself by tying a rope to the leg of the bed frame, which would raise a flag about someone else being in the room with Rebecca.
As RadarOnline.com previously reported, the renowned expert had harsh criticism for the San Diego Sheriff's Department's handling of Rebecca's investigation, and her family has repeatedly called for the authorities to re-open the case into her death.
http://www.radaronline.com/exclusive...-found-bedroom
To understand the living, you got to commune with the dead.
Minerva
Renowned Death Hag
agreed. something fishy..and sheriff got paid. my o!
I think sometimes we look for things that aren't there bc we are by nature curious beings. This is an odd case but every single detail has been explained. Perhaps it is bc I watched the entire video of the conference that I now see this. At first I too found this to be incredibly suspicious. I was curious enough to watch the video. All of it. I found it to be extremely informative & very well researched & put together. It was like an episode of CSI.
When Stever McNair was killed I was convinced there was a more complex answer than the simple, the girlfriend did it. but alas, the simple explanation was the right one. that's just how life happens.
Renowned Death Hag
http://www.suicide.org/suicide-statistics.html
Breaks down some numbers.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."
Administrator
Okay thanks for knowing what I do and don't do...take care. I said most women Not all women.
Renowned Death Hag
Most women is 50% +1. You said very, very, very....rare which would imply a much smaller percentage than that. You have to know what you don't know. I thought it was very odd as well but after I researched it, much to my surprise it was nowhere near as odd as I had assumed it to be. If you are an authority on female suicide I will be happy to consider your expertise.
Renowned Death Hag
I would define "most" as greater than 50%. If, in fact, women committing suicide in the nude is very rare, then it follows that most women do not commit suicide in the nude.
http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240
snipped
Clothes may be partially or completely removed to facilitate the method of suicide. A shirt maybe removed to make hanging easier or to be used as a noose. The disposition of clothing found at the site of a naked suicide attempt or completion can yield valuable clues to the individual's mental state. Clothes that are neatly arranged point to a planned suicide. Clothes strewn about raise the question of impulsivity or mental disorganization secondary to a severe psychiatric condition, substance abuse, or sexual homicide.
Nakedness in suicide attempts or completions in a tub or shower may seem incidental, since people take their clothes off to enter a tub or shower. Nonetheless, knowing that one's body will be found naked and taking the trouble to remove clothing has psychological import. The state of an individual's clothing,including partial undress and nakedness, can provide important clues in a psychological autopsy.
Last edited by RaRaRamona; 09-27-2011 at 06:25 AM.
http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240
snipped
Naked suicide can be associated with any method of suicide;however, anecdotal evidence indicates that it occurs more frequently with hanging, overdose, or drowning...
Impulsivity may be a factor in naked suicides. Most individuals spend at least some part of each day naked. An impulse to commit suicide may strike while the individual is naked. In their study of suicides, Simon et al.9 found that 25 percent of individuals studied made attempts within 5 minutes of having suicidal ideation.
Last edited by RaRaRamona; 09-27-2011 at 06:27 AM.
http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240#T1
Naked suicide suggests a variety of psychological themes. Theshedding of clothes may symbolize a new beginning, a rebirthand cleansing, or a sloughing off of the world.
Anger and vengeance can be expressed by completing suicide whilenaked, especially when it is intended to traumatize a survivor.The shock of discovering a naked suicide inflicts an indelible,traumatic memory that can haunt a survivor for a lifetime.12The person who completes suicide while naked may intend to addinsult to a suicide survivor's already devastating injury.
In severely depressed individuals, a naked suicide may be anexpression of vulnerability, utter despair, desolation, andworthlessness. Psychotic patients may be responding to delusionsor auditory hallucinations commanding them to commit suicidewhile naked as a self-abasement.
In an illustrative case example, a suicidal psychiatric inpatientwith a psychotic depression (case disguised) believed that hewas the cause of the world's calamities. During suicide riskassessment, it was discovered that the patient planned a nakedsuicide to atone for his "sins" by becoming a "sacrificial lamb,shorn of my clothes."
I found this site extremely interesting. there is a LOT of info & I encourage anyone interested in this case to go look around.
Renowned Death Hag
"50% + 1" is more than 50%.
Renowned Death Hag
You got that right. The Police Department isn't going to risk pissing off a family with that kind of dough. Her family will probably get paid off, but I don't see them ever reopening this as a possible murder investigation.
Renowned Death Hag
But is not the only condition by which the term "most" can be used. pkgigi did not contradict herself.
Renowned Death Hag
OK, since I have to defend my thought process once again, I'll break it down for you:
pkgigli first said this: "I don't care what some people or experts say , a woman will not commit suicide in the nude. If one does it's a very very very rare case, and only if it was done on the bathtub and slitting wrists."
then she said this:
"like a said women will not commit suicide by hanging and do it naked and where people can see,"
then she said this:
"I said most women Not all women"
So first she says women will not commit suicide in the nude and if one does, it is very, very.....rare and only in bath tubs.
Then she says women will not hang themselves nude.
Then in response to Ra Ra we go from never and will not to "most women".
RaRa pointed out how pkgigi could be so certain that women won't commit suicide in the nude for which pkgigli then backtracked and said "most" instead of the "will not" and "won't" stance.
I was simply pointing out the difference between what most could be and "won't", "will not" or what "very, very.....rare" likely is.
Sorry for the long explanation, I just don't like being misunderstood.
Renowned Death Hag
You said:
First off, as I stated earlier, "50% + 1" is not the definition of "most". But, by this incorrect definition, you were telling pkgigi that her statement:
"I said most women Not all women" (Which, by the way, is a correction of her statement that "a woman will not commit suicide in the nude", thus eliminating this statement from all subsequent arguments.)
...contradicts her statement
"If one does it's a very very very rare case, and only if it was done on the bathtub and slitting wrists."
Contrary to your argument, her two statements do not contradict. If it's very rare that women who commit suicide do it in the nude, then it follows that most women do not commit suicide in the nude.
IMO, if someone chooses to get on their soapbox to patronize another person, they should at least make sure their logic is sound.
Renowned Death Hag
I never patronized anyone or got on a soap box. I simply pointed out an observation that I HAD. I know what "most" usually means but literally I am correct. If I have 100 boxes where as 49 are on the left and 51 are on the right and I said Barbossa, which side has the most boxes would you then engage me in an argument on symantics or would you simply say the right? How would that answer not be logical?
Administrator
apparently this was left out of the debate that is going on about what I said and didn't say. Maybe I should put every fact, every word not take any shortcuts in my speaking for now on. what i meant to say It is extremely rare for a women to hang herself especially naked, most women that want to kill themselves will take an overdose, or jump to their deaths, get in the bathtub, fill it with water, to semi cover nakedness, and slit their wrists. They try to find the least painful way to die. Sorry to have caused a debate, I'll just go back to my corner now.
Last edited by pkstracy; 09-27-2011 at 05:03 PM.
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