that's what I wanna know
that's what I wanna know
Makes no sense cause the kid died? So no one was saved???
Was she the one doing CPR on max?
I dont know...but the kid died...so I am just wondering what dose that mean??? And even so it would have been too late to save her cause she was dangling outside the balcony right? This is weird!! What the hell!!!
Makes me wonder was it a message to her boyfriend ? The millionaire?
Well, I HAD a theory until the official release of the note. IF it had said She saved him can HE save her? Then I thought it could mean the little boy. I thought maybe she could fall under the mental problem issue and mean that she "saved" him by throwing him over the railing (killing him) and sending him to heaven while he was young w/no unforgivable sins (a'la Andrea Yates) then wondering if HE could save her by helping her get into heaven FROM heaven.
Sounds super weird, I know. But if the note had read like the family member said, at least it would have been possible to understand in a very warped way. This wording, I just can't figure it either.
Sorry if I'm repeating myself ... but oh well
Given Rebecca's state of mind, depressed and feeling guilt over Max's death, and possibly critisized by Jonah Shacknai, the message makes sense. Rebecca implies she cared for, (saved him), can he then in turn save her. And she left no way for him to do so. He was to be punished, in the same way she had been punished.
Either Jonah or Dina, (ex-wife), left a message on her voice mail that Max wasn't going to live.
(Who the f*** does that. Who cares so little about this woman's feelings they don't even speak to her, comfort her, cry with her.)
Last edited by Giada; 09-06-2011 at 08:28 AM.
Renowned Death Hag
If it was the ex-wife, I can see her leaving that message and being really mean in doing so because her child was going to die and she may, rightly or wrongly, blame Rebecca.
To understand the living, you got to commune with the dead.
Minerva
Renowned Death Hag
Originally Posted by Giada
Perhaps the ex wife was trying to establish an alibi by leaving a message?
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."
Renowned Death Hag
Perhaps it was a message to God. I know that sounds kind of crazy but if she tried to save him but didn't and he went to heaven, she is asking God to do the same of her. Sort of an apology for committing suicide, to reiterate that she tried to save him. I don't know. The whole thing is weird. I am assuming that she knew that she would not be found in time to actually be saved.
Renowned Death Hag
I agree. I don't think she wanted to be "saved" in the literal sense.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."
Renowned Death Hag
Now they are saying there was some kind of trauma to the head. Forgive me I have not read the most recent posts....
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The autopsy report states head trauma and tape residue on her legs. I think both can be explained.
Tape residue, possible duct tape she may have initially tried in the garage used to wrap her legs.
Head trauma, either from the fall over the iron balcony, striking her head, or when Adam Schacknai cut her down, he dropped her.
(Adam stood on a table cut the tow line with a knife, one of the legs on the table broke. I wonder how he could hold the body and cut the tow line at same time.)
Family may seek an independent autopsy but it does appear as if the San Diego ME was thorough.
Last edited by Giada; 09-07-2011 at 07:31 AM.
WOW!!
I was thinking more that her bf had tried to call her, couldn't reach her, so left a message. Probably something like...it doesn't look good. Come to the hospital now.
Easily could have happened postmortem, perimortem.
Im sorry but I always refer to the old rule things are never really what they seem....this is weird. I would not put it past a pissed off millionaire hiring someone to kill his gf that was suppose to be watching his kid ..ya know what I mean? I mean that producer Adrien I cant recall her name but she did the film waitress and she had commited suicide and it ended up being a botched robbery ..and the guy strung her up to make it look like a suicide. This is just odd...if she did this out of guilt why all the dramatics? Why outside the home ? Why the strange message ? Why put your family and his through more than they have alreday been through?? I dont know!
Entirely possible RaRa, he left a message that was kind.
More info released from the medical examiner.
LA Times ...
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lano...t-suicide.html
Snipped ...
In a release Tuesday, Lucas said there were bruises on Zahau's scalp, a T-shirt had been wrapped around her neck and was stuffed in her mouth, and there was blood on her inner thighs.
Lucas said the bruises were minor and may have been caused when she slipped over the balcony with the rope around her neck.
The T-shirt in the mouth is not unusual, he said. "It is not clear why it was there, although people can place material in her mouth prior to hanging," he said.
The blood was not the result of rape but probably due to an intrauterine device or menstruation, Lucas said.
(Jonathan Lucas, ME)
Mary Zahau, Rebecca's sister continues to remain in denial, (early stage of grief). My sister did not know how to tie ropes, my sister was a Christian and wouldn't commit suicide, My sister had no enemies, My sister was murdered.
Administrator
I feel she was murdered.
Renowned Death Hag
I think it could happen during the fall as well. She had to shuffle over to the railing and kind of flop over it. Doing this means she would go head first very close to the railing and the floor part of the balcony where she could very easily of struck her head on part of the railing, the balcony or both.
I don't think you can get a wound like that post mortem so it must have been in the fall.
Renowned Death Hag
Plus I figure that her hands and feet were bound at this point so moving would have been even more awkward.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."
Renowned Death Hag
Dude!!! Where in the hell have I been and how did I miss this one??? I need to stay my ass outta the "Chaz Bono" thread and get back to the real stuff...
This is just crazy... In my gut, I feel like something just isn't right.
I can't imagine the anger and pain I would have if my Ex-husband's girlfriend was watching my kid and my baby died... Accident or not, I would freakin lose it. Jus' Sayin'...
My Posse's On Broadway
Meh, SheJay ... I prefer local cases, more information available
It would be an act of insanity for the SD Sherriff's department, Coronado PD and the homicide team to lie about this case, when they would be well aware of scrutiny.
This is a local story that found it's way to international coverage.
Sad to listen to Mary Zahau, still in the throes of denial, and who is unable to cope with the truth say the following ...
"My sister is a Christian and as a Christian would not commit suicide." "That was not my sister's handwriting." "My sister did not know how to tie knots, none of us did."
(I would need therapy, and comforting support ... for a long time).
Last edited by Giada; 09-07-2011 at 01:03 PM.
Renowned Death Hag
Other forensic scientists chime in:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/rebecca-zah...ry?id=14463695
Face time with opinions without publication of the autopsy report, and no supportive documentation to support their opinions.
(Got a brand, get a paycheck ...)
Uh-0h ... ambulance chaser sent cease and desist letter ...
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15406681/s...amily-attorney
Renowned Death Hag
Do you mean the Coranado PD? (Check out the spelling on the sketch of the crime scene.)
That doesn't make sense.
Renowned Death Hag
Right. It doesn't. So then who murdered her, a friend? IF someone did murder her I would bet Max's mother had something to do with it. If she thought Rebecca somehow caused the death of her son I'm sure she considered her her enemy. I wonder who the sister thinks murdered her.
Maybe the family will get frustrated & go to the media
I still feel like this is not a suicide.
Mary Zanau, Rebecca's sister is simply in the depths of denial and grief. Sad she isn't seeking the benefit of a therapist.
Nothing Mary says makes sense. "My sister doesn't know how to tie knots, no one in our family does."
Rebecca used a tow line from the garage to hang herself.
The sheriff's department has stated if there are any new leads they will re-open the case.
As to the cease and desist letter, Jonah in within his rights to demand this stops. He has two teenagers to protect and a business.
To Giada:
I get the part about Mary Zahau being in denial. Many people prefer to think their loved ones were murdered rather than having committed suicide.
However, I am very troubled by several things.
1. The elaborate knots--did Rebecca know how to make those knots?
2. Gag stuffed in her mouth--why would she do that to herself?
3. Autopsy states livor mortis in back of skull, which I am told means she died while on her back.
4. Autopsy describes condition of the neck, which I am told is not consistent with hanging (listened to forensic pathologist describe this).
5. Tiny broken blood vessels on her face--forgot what it's called--not consistent with hanging (again, listened to forensic pathologist).
6. Tongue not protruding, not consistent with hanging.
Obviously I don't have the medical expertise to understand all of this, but it seems highly unusual and highly suspicious.
Renowned Death Hag
I was just about to respond to the person who said 'she had no enemies. She was murdered' & that it didn't make sense. - Perhaps it was a murder but a random murder. Obviously, we know it may not have been a random killing but that could have been a possibility.
[SIGPIC]
To Pyt:
Well, this is why I wish we had more information about Rebecca's activities that evening. Also, did the house have a security system? Are we sure there was no intruder?
I personally doubt that there was an intruder--if she was murdered, I think it was a family member or friend of the Shacknai family.
Also, I would like to know how Jonah Shacknai has responded in the past to insults--did he take it in stride, or did he seek revenge?
I forgot to say that one reason I doubt the suicide theory is because Jonah Shacknai is the chairman of a publicly-owned company. The company's stock went down when Rebecca died, but it went back up when her death was ruled a suicide.
That right there is a strong financial motivation for the suicide finding by the medical examiner. Plus, if there was foul play, it takes the heat off the perpetrator.
Hippo ... I watched the 90 minute sherriff's press conference and there was overwhelming evidence of suicide.
I can answer to the rope, which was actually a red tow line obtained from the garage. Residents on Cornado Island are wealthy often sailing and boating. A tow line in the garage tells me they boated or sailed.
Only one item showed mixed DNA and this was the tow line, (no surprise as this was in the garage). The room, the paint on her hands, the brush, the knife to cut the tow line ... had her fingerprints only. The only prints on the balcony, foot and hand were Rebecca's.
There were at minimum 20 investigator's on the scene the morning of the suicide. This case was not treated lightly or with abandon.
BRB ...
Administrator
Plus didn't it say somewhere that she had tape residue around her legs and somewhere else?
Hippo ... Shacknai hired a PR firm and an investigative firm following Rebecca's suicide. I'm certain he was approached by board member's or they had meetings to discuss this. I don't find this the least bit unusual.
Naked Suicide ... David l Simon, MD
http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/36/2/240
As to behavior ...
Naked suicide suggests a variety of psychological themes. The shedding of clothes may symbolize a new beginning, a rebirth and cleansing, or a sloughing off of the world. In the biblical description of Christ's resurrection, his clothes, a symbol of an unregenerate world, were left behind as he ascended into heaven.11
Anger and vengeance can be expressed by completing suicide while naked, especially when it is intended to traumatize a survivor. The shock of discovering a naked suicide inflicts an indelible, traumatic memory that can haunt a survivor for a lifetime.12 The person who completes suicide while naked may intend to add insult to a suicide survivor's already devastating injury. In severely depressed individuals, a naked suicide may be an expression of vulnerability, utter despair, desolation, and worthlessness. .
Autopsy Report reveals new details in Cornado mansion death.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...ronado-mansio/
(One inch of tape residue)
The Medical Examinerâ??s Office issued a statement Tuesday saying the significance of the tape is unclear, although its position and small size of about an inch would have been unusual for evidence of leg binding.
Investigators said there was no sign of a struggle, either on Zahauâ??s body or at the scene, and that there was no evidence of her being drugged or sedated. According to the autopsy report, bruises were found on the right side of her scalp, and some small abrasions were on her forehead. Lucas said Tuesday that the wounds were â??relatively minorâ? and possibly came from her striking her head as she fell from the balcony.
Renowned Death Hag
If this was a suicide which I am inclined to believe since the evidense just doesn't show anyone else around, then it seems there was alot of symbolism in the way she did it.
The message on the door, being naked, binding ones hands and feet, the shirt in the mouth etc.. it almost seems like she went out of her way tom make this complicated.
She must have had some very specific ideas about what her suicide was supposed to be. The police point out the late night phone call but that would suggest more of a spontaneous act, not the ritualistic drawn out process she chose for her death.
Renowned Death Hag
The Zahau family is accepting donations for their own investigation:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...ay-investigat/
It's well known tabloids pay for interviews. Mary Zahau, Rebecca's sister, appears to be adding eagerly to her bank account.
She has a vested interest in keeping, "her story," alive.
http://www.radaronline.com/
Shacknai letter to Anne Bremner, attorney.
http://www.cbs8.com/story/15406681/s...amily-attorney
Snipped ...
You have absolutely no facts to support these false and irresponsible statements, and you are fully aware that such facts do not exist. Please know that your false public statements constitute defamation, per se, and under law, entitle Mr. Shacknai to recover from you, and your law firm, substantial damages.
Last edited by Giada; 09-08-2011 at 12:23 PM.
Of course they are
yeah....
Simple business model for Radar, "sign exclusive", x number of days, x price. They are attemping a push on a dying story.
By next week the tabs will have move on ...
This weeks People magazine stated that her death has been ruled a suicide
Renowned Death Hag
I still call Bullshit on this... Those people can call it whatever they want, I call it fishy...
same here chick
Stop Calling it Murder
http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...no-murder.html
What I find interesting is the spokeperson for the family attorney Anne Bremner has finally ... shut up ...
She has no new evidence to offer and had placed her law firm at risk by making comments without foundation.
(Find a wealthy target, make outrageous untrue statements, it's called a shakedown).
Renowned Death Hag
Great article! Thank you Giada.Stop Calling it Murder
http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...no-murder.html
What I find interesting is the spokeperson for the family attorney Anne Bremner has finally ... shut up ...
She has no new evidence to offer and had placed her law firm at risk by making comments without foundation.
(Find a wealthy target, make outrageous untrue statements, it's called a shakedown).
That was good
Renowned Death Hag
That was a good story - thanks for sharing.
The thing I am having a hard time is WHY naked and WHY shove something in her own mouth? So she tied herself up - okay (?), but I don't get it. He message made no sense to me - maybe I am looking too hard.
Hired hands can be very thorough.
Tragic for everyone involved.
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