Aviation

[Miho]

I would love to see a topographic map of the landscape in the Indian Ocean (sans the water). I will try to find one.

http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/166934/view

[neilmpenny]

Some good photo's in this article.

Have they FINALLY found flight MH370? French satellite spots 122 objects up to 75ft long in Indian Ocean that appear to be debris from doomed airliner?

New satellite images have revealed 122 objects in the southern Indian Ocean that could be debris from the Malaysian jetliner missing since March 8 with 239 people on board, Malaysia's acting transport minister said.

The find has dramatically narrowed the search zone, with the debris spotted across an area measuring just 155 square miles (400 square kilometres).
In the past few days the search area has measured around 622,000 square miles - six times the size of the UK. On Wednesday around 31,000 square miles was scoured.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2x5k6cnCk

[Wendy A.]

I hope this is it. I really hope this isn't going to be another let down. It really does sound promising though.

[Seagorath]

This looks like the plane. When it impacted...it spread lots of debris. I'm hoping it is for the families.

[duchessmary]

I just saw an on line article from the Daily Mail. With pictures. I'd share but I'm appalled. What is wrong with this woman??
"Queen of Malaysia has some laughs and plays golf while a nation mourns,"

[Seagorath]

Check this out...

http://time.com/18358/malaysia-airli...isappearances/

[neilmpenny]

I just saw an on line article from the Daily Mail. With pictures. I'd share but I'm appalled. What is wrong with this woman??
"Queen of Malaysia has some laughs and plays golf while a nation mourns,"

There is no such thing as the Queen of Malaysia. The last Queen of Malaysia was her majesty Queen Elazabeth II who lost this title when Malaysia gained independance in 1957

Malaysia is a federation consisting of 13 states and three federal territories. 11 of the states are on peninsular Malaysia, of which 9 retain their royal families (Sultinates). Every 5 years the Sultans get together to elect a yang di-pertuan agong (paramount ruler) which is a ceremonial title, with limited to no political powers. Essentially they rotate it around so that every 45 years each state has had their turn. However, if you want to set up a business, or do any significant business in any state, you had better be prepared to pay off the relevant state's Sultan. Malaysia is as corrupt as fuck.

Malaysia is ruled by a democratically elected Prime Minister (cough cough). Malaysia runs a tripartate system os Federal, State and Local government. Each state is divided into districts and then further divided into Mukim. Rule of law is based upon English common law with the Parliamentary system being based upon the the Westminster System but has been modified for local conditions (as it has in all Commonwealth countries). Sharia law applies only to Muslims and is restricted to family law and religeous affairs. However, from time to time, they get a little zealous and go around bars 'arresting' women in short skirts (funny how it is always women who are arrested, not men). The press goes ape-shit and they get back in their box for a while. Then it starts again. There is a rigid fundamentalist element trying to impose a harsher version of Sharia law on Malaysia, and that is usually what is fuelling these 'arrests'.

The 14th and current yang di-pertuan agong is Abdul Halim who is the Sultan of Kedah. It was his missus who was playing golf.

The journalists are really scratching around hard to find a story if this is considered newsworthy.

[John Trim]

Ok, I saw these to videos on Facebook today. I assume they are the same aircraft fro 2 different angles. Real or fake?????



Second video in next post.

[John Trim]

[snowblindburd]

Definitely not the same. The first one is definitely camera trickery, and the second one is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Alaska_C-17_crash

[John Trim]

Definitely not the same. The first one is definitely camera trickery, and the second one is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Alaska_C-17_crash

I was pretty sure the first one was fake. I think the plane would have stalled and rolled over if it had actually been vertical that long.

[John Trim]

Those of you who have been with this thread from the beginning, I'll leave it to you to make your own captions.

[Seagorath]

A sliver of hope...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/29/world/...html?hpt=hp_t1

[Aviatrix]

Or the National Enquirer.

I was going to say Weekly World News, but they're defunct now. They were the ones who came up with the "Lost Transcriptions of the Challenger Accident" after Commander Michael Smith said "Uh oh." It was all proven to be a hoax.

Informing the families that MH370 was gone instead of in a private "no press allowed" conference? Very tactless IMHO.

Neil, I guess I've heard that the waters off western Australia are calmer than the South China Sea or the Indian Ocean. If that's the case, then do you believe that the flight recorders will eventually be found? Given the ocean currents' movents in three weeks time, I'm really having my doubts that they're looking for the ping in the wrong place. Just curious Neil what your thoughts are.

[Aviatrix]

Those of you who have been with this thread from the beginning, I'll leave it to you to make your own captions.

So many possible captions, so little time.

1. What does this button do? I've never actually flown one of these things.
2. Now that I've landed in SFO, I can finally meet John Trim for that long promised cup of coffee!

Thinking of coffee, that's what Aviatrix needs right now. I'll try to come back with more later.

[John Trim]

So many possible captions, so little time.

1. What does this button do? I've never actually flown one of these things.
2. Now that I've landed in SFO, I can finally meet John Trim for that long promised cup of coffee!

Thinking of coffee, that's what Aviatrix needs right now. I'll try to come back with more later.

Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!

[Seagorath]

Without a doubt the 1st or 2nd worse airlines flight tragedy and mystery in my lifetime...along with the plane that was shot down by an over the shoulder rocket launcher off the coast of New York...TWA Flight 800...

...Flight 800 still bothers me because two girls from nearby Jones County perished on that flight. That's one of the worst ways to go...in flight...in a plane...with PANIC all around you...

...this would suck.

[Seagorath]

Back again with an update...

...they are now searching for Black Box "pings"...which are powered by batteries that last 30 days...

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...-detector.html

[neilmpenny]

'Accept they're dead and prepare for their funerals': China's blunt message to MH370 families as they vent fury at Malaysia's poor handling of the search

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2xYS6E9MR

[neilmpenny]

The Mystery of MH370.

Late night live radio broadcast with aviation expert Professor Peter Ladkin (interviewed by Philip Adams) who has a history of analysing aircraft accidents and anomalies.

This is my favourite radio program. I download the podcasts of this show every day and listen at my leisure.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/...-mh370/5350114

[Miho]

Without a doubt the 1st or 2nd worse airlines flight tragedy and mystery in my lifetime...along with the plane that was shot down by an over the shoulder rocket launcher off the coast of New York...TWA Flight 800...

...Flight 800 still bothers me because two girls from nearby Jones County perished on that flight. That's one of the worst ways to go...in flight...in a plane...with PANIC all around you...

...this would suck.

A former coworker was on board the flight coming into New York. The FBI ended up showing up at his house in the middle of the night to question him and his wife.

[Seagorath]

Everybody on that TWA flight was murdered.

A former coworker was on board the flight coming into New York. The FBI ended up showing up at his house in the middle of the night to question him and his wife.

[neilmpenny]

Minister says 'deliberate' act responsible.

Ya think?

http://www.theage.com.au/world/missi...401-zqph2.html

[Miho]

Everybody on that TWA flight was murdered.

Sorry I meant the flight coming into the airport before the plane exploded.

[Seagorath]

No problemo, Miho. TWA is like US Scare with its aviation history.

Sorry I meant the flight coming into the airport before the plane exploded.

[geekygirl]

Shock and dismay:

Malaysian credibility in jet hunt challenged again

It may mean little to investigators that the last words air traffic controllers heard from the lost jetliner were "Good night, Malaysian three-seven-zero," rather than "All right, good night." But to Malaysian officials whose credibility has been questioned almost from the beginning, it means a great deal.

Full story: http://news.msn.com/world/malaysian-...allenged-again


Maybe it would be better if the Malaysians just announced that they are idiots and don't know what the hell they are doing. I don't think it could get any worse now.

[neilmpenny]

Shock and dismay:

Malaysian credibility in jet hunt challenged again

It may mean little to investigators that the last words air traffic controllers heard from the lost jetliner were "Good night, Malaysian three-seven-zero," rather than "All right, good night." But to Malaysian officials whose credibility has been questioned almost from the beginning, it means a great deal.

Full story: http://news.msn.com/world/malaysian-...allenged-again


Maybe it would be better if the Malaysians just announced that they are idiots and don't know what the hell they are doing. I don't think it could get any worse now.

Yes, it can.

Lost flight MH370 'a blessing in disguise' - M'sian minister

THE public face of the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has made another public relations faux pas, agreeing with a Tweet that described the tragedy as a “blessing in disguise”.

Full article: http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/in...#ixzz2xmSXk000

[geekygirl]

Yes, it can.

Lost flight MH370 'a blessing in disguise' - M'sian minister

THE public face of the missing Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 has made another public relations faux pas, agreeing with a Tweet that described the tragedy as a “blessing in disguise”.

Full article: http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/in...#ixzz2xmSXk000

Unbelievable, Neil, that is insane and/or stupid. They need to STFU, apologize profusely, step aside and throw themselves at the mercy of other countries that are willing and capable of carrying out the investigation. Haven't they ever heard of damage control?

[duchessmary]

Have these people got a screw loose or something?? I'm appalled.

[Seagorath]

FINALLY!!! Pings from black box detected...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/05/world/...html?hpt=hp_t1

[geekygirl]

FINALLY!!! Pings from black box detected...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/05/world/...html?hpt=hp_t1

In other news, in what will come as a surprise to no one, the man promoting a "Bigfoot body" on tour across the United States has admitted that the exhibit is a fake. http://www.kpho.com/story/24657934/p...ot-a-real-body

[neilmpenny]

FINALLY!!! Pings from black box detected...

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/05/world/...html?hpt=hp_t1

I wouldn't get too excited.

[geekygirl]

I wouldn't get too excited.

You and I are on the same page, Neil. For Seagorath, I just want to clarify that my sarcastic comment above is not directed at you, but at the way this entire incident has been handled from the start. I think the combination of the Malaysian Government and overzealous media publishing ANYTHING to generate circulation for advertising money has become the perfect storm of idiocy.

After I posted it, I thought, "Yikes, I hope Seagorath knows I wasn't picking on him!" and decided to post this follow-up. Apologies Seagorath if my comment offended you in any way.

[Seagorath]

My feelings were devastated beyond belief by your harsh retort. I was blowing spit bubbles and even picking my own nose like a 2nd grader, as I stared into the corner at the paint chips coming off the wall. Seriously, I was distraught like the time Mrs. Williams paddled me and grinted her teeth. Why? Because I love ya.

I'll get over it...SOME-HOW.

Hugs. Jokin.' We are game. I love some friendly jabs from time to time. Even innocent and fun.

I need to settle down now. Too much Cafe Bustelo today.

You and I are on the same page, Neil. For Seagorath, I just want to clarify that my sarcastic comment above is not directed at you, but at the way this entire incident has been handled from the start. I think the combination of the Malaysian Government and overzealous media publishing ANYTHING to generate circulation for advertising money has become the perfect storm of idiocy.

After I posted it, I thought, "Yikes, I hope Seagorath knows I wasn't picking on him!" and decided to post this follow-up. Apologies Seagorath if my comment offended you in any way.

[geekygirl]

My feelings were devastated beyond belief by your harsh retort. I was blowing spit bubbles and even picking my own nose like a 2nd grader, as I stared into the corner at the paint chips coming off the wall. Seriously, I was distraught like the time Mrs. Williams paddled me and grinted her teeth. Why? Because I love ya.

I'll get over it...SOME-HOW.

Hugs. Jokin.' We are game. I love some friendly jabs from time to time. Even innocent and fun.

I need to settle down now. Too much Cafe Bustelo today.

Oh, hooray, I'm so glad. Seriously, I really am!

[duchessmary]

I hope this is something for the sake of the families.

[W Axl Rose]

Looks like the Aussies have potentially picked up a signal elsewhere too. Still not holding my breath.

[geekygirl]

At breakfast this morning, my family was discussing the latest news flash about the Chinese ship hearing pings that could be from the black box of the missing plane. My smart alecky 17 year-old son said, "Yeah, they heard pings but then they listened more closely and they also heard chings, changs, egg fu yungs, chop sueys, peking ducks, cha su baos, yings and yangs." At which point my 14 year-old equally smart alecky son replied with, "No, they heard pings but they discovered that the captain of the ship was playing Ping Pong with the First Mate." So very politically incorrect, but my kids made me laugh out loud. [Geeky asks God for forgiveness and prays for the souls of the missing and peace and comfort for their families as God shakes His head in dismay].

[neilmpenny]

At the moment we have three sets of pings from separate sources. The initial Chinese one seems to be the most credible, based upon an updated projection of the aircraft's flight path 'pings', or is it chings, changs, egg fu yungs, chop sueys, peking ducks, cha su baos, yings and yangs?

[geekygirl]

At the moment we have three sets of pings from separate sources. The initial Chinese one seems to be the most credible, based upon an updated projection of the aircraft's flight path 'pings', or is it chings, changs, egg fu yungs, chop sueys, peking ducks, cha su baos, yings and yangs?

I'm placing money on the latter.

[neilmpenny]

I'm placing money on the latter.

Your betting on a yang?

Personally, I'd hedge that bet.

[Leasie]

You all crack me up and I agree with you.

How the hell can they find the black box in these waters? I just don't see how it is possible.

It crashed and it is gone. Long gone.

[geekygirl]

Your betting on a yang?

Personally, I'd hedge that bet.

You all crack me up and I agree with you.

How the hell can they find the black box in these waters? I just don't see how it is possible.

It crashed and it is gone. Long gone.

Dunno. I am betting that there will be mandatory changes in air transportation communication systems coming down the pike as a result of this. It's really kind of amazing that there weren't systems in place before this incident, but live and learn.

[neilmpenny]

Dunno. I am betting that there will be mandatory changes in air transportation communication systems coming down the pike as a result of this. It's really kind of amazing that there weren't systems in place before this incident, but live and learn.

I read that to install real time data transfer will cost in the order of 100K per aircraft. The storage of large volumes of data alone is very expensive, and then there is the infrastructure to transfer the data globally from the aircraft to the airlines base. This is what has prevented them from doing it so. It would impact too much on the price of a ticket. I am guessing the general public would probably be willing to beat the cost after this.

[geekygirl]

I read that to install real time data transfer will cost in the order of 100K per aircraft. The storage of large volumes of data alone is very expensive, and then there is the infrastructure to transfer the data globally from the aircraft to the airlines base. This is what has prevented them from doing it so. It would impact too much on the price of a ticket. I am guessing the general public would probably be willing to beat the cost after this.

Interesting. I heard a talking head somewhere say that it would be ridiculously cheap. The theory is that they would only keep data until the plane safely landed at its location and then the storage space would be continuously reused. Kind of like a videocamera at a bank re-recording over everything every three days. But again, this was just a talking head on TV and they could be talking out of their @ss... But you're right, I think people would pay for it even if it is expensive.

Which brings me to my original suspicion that someone knows exactly what happened and they don't want folks to know for one reason or another. On the bright side, this incident has probably stimulated the economy somewhere down the food chain.

BTW, Neil, I love discussing things with you. You are so intelligent and really know your stuff. When I don't reply to your comments, you still give me a lot to think about. You should promote yourself as an expert on virtually any subject and you would do ten times better than the idiots CNN hires.

[neilmpenny]

Interesting. I heard a talking head somewhere say that it would be ridiculously cheap. The theory is that they would only keep data until the plane safely landed at its location and then the storage space would be continuously reused. Kind of like a videocamera at a bank re-recording over everything every three days. But again, this was just a talking head on TV and they could be talking out of their @ss... But you're right, I think people would pay for it even if it is expensive.

Which brings me to my original suspicion that someone knows exactly what happened and they don't want folks to know for one reason or another. On the bright side, this incident has probably stimulated the economy somewhere down the food chain.

BTW, Neil, I love discussing things with you. You are so intelligent and really know your stuff. When I don't reply to your comments, you still give me a lot to think about. You should promote yourself as an expert on virtually any subject and you would do ten times better than the idiots CNN hires.

Thanks for the compliment. To be fair, I do spend an inordinate amount of time reading a wide array newspapers and journals, which keeps me up to date with what is going on. Though you don't post often, the posts you put up are of an excellent quality and always give me something to chew over. I like receiving alternative or contradictory theories and information, as it forces me to consider something I never originally even thought of, let alone considered. As for the network thingy, they go for specialists with detailed knowledge of their particular subject. I am more of a generalist lol.

Not so sure about whether they would dump the information a' la' a video recorder. Once you go down the data telemetry route, you find that everything gets wired up i.e tyres, hydraulics, airframe, engines, internal and external environments & etc. Considering that these aircraft are generally leased by the airlines, the information gathered would be vital to the marketing and leasing departments of the owners going forward. There is always a second or third tier airline looking to lease a used aircraft. Apart from maintenance manuals, what better way to provide information on the health of the aircraft?

The next point to consider would be requirement by the FAA and the insurers to have this information at hand after an accident, no matter how minor. They can go back and review all the telemetry over the life of the aircraft and pinpoint any anomalies and spikes in performance which could be contributing factors to the accident. Although that proceedure would be more of a historical nature, the telemetry can also alert the airlines and their engineers to real-time problems. For instance, NASA knew they had a problem with Columbia upon re-entry when the port wheel well temperature spiked. Then there was a series of cautions and warnings as other sensors came into play i.e. tyre pressure, wing temperatures, cargo bay breach & etc. Of course, with Columbia, they were committed to re-entering the atmosphere, there was no abort option. For MH370, if they had real-time telemetry (as well as an integrated satellite network), the airline would know instantly that the aircraft was going off-campus. For MH370, it's alternate flight path was plotted only after it disappeared, which required some pretty clever math from data provided by a sole satellite located in the middle of the Indian Ocean. With an integrated satellite network, you will know this instantaneously and locate the aircraft with pinpoint accuracy as it's position will always be triangulated from multiple satellites, even if it is just an engine beep.

The Chinese government has had it's hands full trying to placate the relatives. So much so, they have thrown up the idea of installing a bunch of satellites in geosynchronous orbit dedicated solely to tracking global aircraft movements. The way it works now is that each nation has a zone in which they are responsible, and when the aircraft reaches the limits of that zone, the aircraft is handed over to the adjacent nation's air traffic controllers. One of the features of MH370 is that the aircraft got to the northern most fringe of Malaysian airspace, without handing over to the Vietnamese. It exploited a 'black spot' in the radar detection network. Whoever was flying this thing had some serious flying chops, as this requires detailed knowledge. Those mooks who flew into the World Trade Centre had flying lessons for sure, but not the highly detailed navigational knowledge that was required to pull this off.

Maybe it is time that there was a synchronised integrated satellite network tracking all aircraft movements. All aircraft controllers can tap into the status of any aircraft before it enters their airspace, during, as well as after leaving. It would be like a double layer of protection. The biggest hurdle is political. We know what happened when Castro let Khrushchev park missiles in Cuba (with way more nuke warheads than the American thought were there btw), only 90 miles away. Every nation on the planet would feel edgy about a Chinese system of satellites monitoring their airspace, as they would with an American network. Shhhhhhh, don't tell anyone K, they are already up there. American, Russian, Chinese, Israeli, Australian, Japanese etc all merrily spying away on each other. But of course we don't, or aren't supposed, to know that. *wink wink*.

So what is plan B? A coalition of nations each providing their own satellites to be integrated into the network? Not only is the hardware different, so is the software. You would have to integrate windows, opera, linux, novell netware, netscape navigator etc etc. Of course the software examples I gave are bogus, but you get the idea. Everyone will have their own software platforms. Then there is national security. If they are running the same software, or different software that is compatible with each other, then the system is open to hacking. Not just for sabotage, but for spying, both political and industrial.

Then of course there is the obvious, like what is happening in the Ukrane right now. Some of the big players get into a political spat. Sanctions and threats are thrown around like a cheap hooker. Could this lead to one country denyng access to it's grid? Who is going to administer this? Will it turn into a shemozzle just like the United Nations? (if ever there was an oxymoron). We could be waiting decades for a resolution I think.

As for 'stimulating the economy somewhere down the food chain', don't think of it as an accident, but rather, as Schumpeter proposed, creative destruction. (Sorry to introduce Marxist economic theory into the equation). I am refering to the way we monitor aircraft btw.

[Seagorath]

I vote for the FAA to hire Neil as a Quality Control and "Common Sense Director"...They could certainly use him.

[neilmpenny]

I vote for the FAA to hire Neil as a Quality Control and "Common Sense Director"...They could certainly use him.

Only if they pay me with hashish.

[Wendy A.]

I wouldn't get too excited.

exactly, seems like there's been so many "this is it!" moments and nothing pans out. I feel so bad for the families for all the bullshit they're going through. For their sake, I really hope this is it.

[Bidmor]

I understand that Rolls Royce offers a performance data service on their aircraft engines and is optional. I suppose the service is on a subscription basis or similar. Of course the 777 has Rolls engines but I also heard that the airline does not subscribe to the Rolls service.

Does anyone have any more info on the Rolls data service and any speculation on whether or not the Rolls data would have shed more light, had the service been utilized?