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Thread: Mary Bell

  1. #51
    LadyDay Guest
    my older sister remembers this case, it was truly creepy, she was truly creepy.

    the reason for her anonymity is not to protect her, but to protect her daughter, I think i read the other day that mary bell is now a grandmother.

    One thing i will say in her 'defence' is that her mother was a prostitute and used Mary as a sex toy with her clients, S and M and that kind of stuff.

    I don't think the child had any normal kind of feelings. but from what i've read she is completely rehabiliated.

    I'm a Londoner and I completely luv the Geordie accent.

  2. #52
    stacebabe Guest
    I will never understand Europe and their "gift" of anonymity for child killers. Remember James Bulger? That story makes me cry every time I read it. His killers, and Mary Bell, did NOT deserve to live in obscurity. They should fucking have to wear shirts bearing their victims pictures, for christs sake.

  3. 02-08-2009, 12:44 AM

  4. #53
    charlietangodelta Guest
    I wonder what happened to her to cause her to do these things? Parental neglect? Some sort of abuse?

    Or perhaps she was just mentally ill! I wonder has she ever been diagnosed?

  5. 02-08-2009, 03:36 AM

  6. #54
    Long Gone Day Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by attackatdawn View Post
    I came across this today, never heard about this one before very horrible!
    http://www.crimelibrary.com/notoriou...l/index_1.html
    Who could look at the face of this sweet 10-year-old girl and ever imagine her to be one of the youngest serial killers ever discovered. Was this youngster who killed her playmates without any feelings of guilt the result of a monstrous family or a bad seed or something else?


    Thanks..very..much..for..posting..this..article
    from,..I..think,..the..book,..*Cries..Unheard...Why
    Children..Kill......*(I.hope.that.the.correct..title).

    Ive..just..finished..reading..it..and..was..wondering
    if..there..was..an..initial..physical..exam..done
    to..this..child....It..mentions..the..psychiatric
    but..not..a..physical..exam....One..for..scars
    on..this..little..girls..body..or..to..see..if..she
    had..been..sexually..molested.....It..appears
    confirmed..that..her..mother..engaged..her
    in..her..S/M..prostitution..forays...and
    Im..also..wondering..about..the..paternity
    of..Marys...father.....So..very..sad..and
    a..smart..little..ten..yr...old..that..had
    already..blocked..her..mind.....Good..title
    for..the..book.....Tragic..for..all..involved.

  7. #55
    charlietangodelta Guest

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by thinkering View Post
    Hey Charlie.
    You might wanna check out crimelibrary's Making Mary Bell.
    There's been suggestions that Mary's prostitute mother used her as a S&M-prop to her johns.

    Aside from that, she was an unwanted child whose mother had Münchaussens and tried to poison her on a number of occasions.

    Her dad seems to have been an alcoholic with a rapsheet.
    Cheers for that..

    It seemed that there was never much hope of Mary Bell becoming a well balanced human being.

  8. #56
    stacebabe Guest
    Very eloquent post, and I appreciate that point of view.

    I, however, am a pessimist at heart. I'm also a mom. If my child were James Bulger or Brian or Martin -- I'd be horrified that their murderers were given a free ride for the rest of their lives. The sheer viciousness of the attacks on all 3 children warrant - to me - having to pay for that for the rest of your lives. I'm not of the mindset that the crime just goes away when a murderer walks out of the prisions. Surely the parents of those children will continue to live with the horror for the rest of their lives. I believe the killers should too.

    Quote Originally Posted by thinkering View Post
    Being from Europe - I guess I can understand.
    It's one of the same reasons, why we as a civilized society don't believe in capital punishment anymore.

    No one's arguing that what these childkillers did wasn't horrendous and that they shouldn't be punished. We all agree on that.

    The differences of opinion start with the questions when has someone paid their debt to society? When (if it's possible) is a person rehabilitated and no longer a threat to society? And can we without a doubt say that a person can go unchanged for decades - the person we punish/execute today might not share the (lack of) values and morals of his-/herself from twenty plus years ago.

    I suppose it's also a matter of how you look at humans. Mary Bell, as well as Jon Venables and Robert Thompson were themselves abused children. How can we know for sure they are "bad seeds", rotten from the inside out? Is it possible that taken out of the abusive context and being surrounded by sound values - for a long enough period - that a child can change?

    I like to think that. It gives me strength to believe in humankind and the ability to heal.

  9. #57
    tarsier Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by susalu View Post
    she must have been a BAD SEED... remember that movie from the 50's with Patty McCormick.... the theory was that homicidal tendencies are genetic... makes you wonder what the kids of Tex Watson and some of the other killers will end up like!
    I believe the bad seed thing my oldest brother -- I've mentioned before -- has spent early my entire life in prison (never murder) but is currently back in but will be out as a sex offender.
    It's like siomething is missing in him I've heard his father Mom's first husband did time for murder but Mom never talked about him or that time in her life. The brother doesn't grasp the concept of "wrong" or that it applies to him. Wrong=getting caught otherwise it's okay for him to do anything. He was just born that way.

  10. #58
    LadyDay Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by stacebabe View Post
    Very eloquent post, and I appreciate that point of view.

    I, however, am a pessimist at heart. I'm also a mom. If my child were James Bulger or Brian or Martin -- I'd be horrified that their murderers were given a free ride for the rest of their lives. The sheer viciousness of the attacks on all 3 children warrant - to me - having to pay for that for the rest of your lives. I'm not of the mindset that the crime just goes away when a murderer walks out of the prisions. Surely the parents of those children will continue to live with the horror for the rest of their lives. I believe the killers should too.
    But if you were the mother of Mary Bell or Venables, what would you want to happen to them?

    I don't believe child criminals should be treated in the same way as adult criminals - I too believe youngsters can be rehabilitated.

    If you believe children should be sentenced in the same way as adults, maybe you believe children age 10 should also be able to vote and drive cars?

  11. 02-08-2009, 08:37 AM

  12. #59
    2Dogs Guest
    Thanks for bumping this Miho. I've never heard about her before. That was quite a story...very, very creepy. I kept reading her words and then looking back at her photo. It was hard to reconcile the two. She sounded very mature and manipulative to me.

    I guess I have mixed feelings about the anonymity issue.

    ...On the one hand, I can't believe that a child so young could choose to be that evil. Whether it be some kind of mental defect she was born with, or a result of the poisoning and abuse by her mother, or a combination of both...something was seriously broken in that child. Something that wasn't "her fault". If she was indeed "fixable", then what's the point of releasing her back into society only to saddle her with an infamy that would prevent her from ever being a productive member of society?


    ...On the other hand, how exactly was she "fixed"? It didn't sound like her incarceration period involved much rehabilitation. How does a little girl go from being a real life Chucky-Doll to a normal human being, without benefit of intensive therapy? And then the book, and that's how her daughter finds out what her mother did...I'm not so sure that she was completely "fixed". If I were her neighbor, I'd want to know her history. I think I'd feel like I had the right to know her history.

    Thinkering, do you know...in the cases of young murderers who are given anonymity...does law enforcement keep tabs on them?

  13. 02-09-2009, 12:05 AM

  14. 02-09-2009, 12:07 AM

  15. #60
    cherryghost Guest
    Its interesting ......where is she and where are the Bolger killers? Why do they deserve such protection when the children who died at their hands recieved nothing of the kind!

    IMOP at this moment I think their identity shouldnt be protected! It shouldnt be broadcast but oh what do you really do with these monsters? Its a scary dilemna! I dont know! I think institutionalisation for the rest of their lives might be the safest bet! Do kids who kill deserve a 2nd chance!

    What a mindfield this topic is!

    I think one of the Bolger killers is in Australia, Perth springs to mind!

    What if they get cross again and decide to act on their anger! Does their true identity come out or are they protected! This protection is for the killers not the victim or potential victim!

    If they serve the time and are REALLY rehabilated into society okay.... but why give them a new identity! That is deception and gives reason to think they may not be really rehabilated at all in the eyes of the judicial system!

    Just a hyperthetical really!
    Last edited by cherryghost; 02-09-2009 at 12:14 AM.

  16. 02-09-2009, 12:32 AM

  17. #61
    Cadence71 Guest
    Wow - I have never heard of this case before - yowsers!

  18. #62
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    Reminds me of the case where the two boys lured the little boy to the train tracks and killed them. They were in jail until 18 or something and now get identity protection. What about protection for that little boy? Where are his rights?
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    "I will be buried in a spring loaded casket filled with confetti, and a future archaeologist will have one awesome day at work."

  19. #63
    stacebabe Guest
    That was the James Bulger case, and the first time I read it in its entirety, I literally cried.

    Jon Venables and Robert Thompson were the murderers that got new identities. I was just looking on Wiki, and saw this:

    "In September 2007, it was reported that Robert Thompson was living in Carshalton, Greater London, with his girlfriend and their young child and that he was using the first name "James". " --- I don't know if he's using James as a sick joke, or to remind himself daily of what he's done, but either way, I'm not sure I like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miho View Post
    Reminds me of the case where the two boys lured the little boy to the train tracks and killed them. They were in jail until 18 or something and now get identity protection. What about protection for that little boy? Where are his rights?

  20. 02-09-2009, 10:01 PM

  21. #64
    Lisamarie Guest
    Im one that thinks the little bitch should have been left to rot in jail seeing that pic of her at 16 with that shit eating grin really pissess me off there are tons of kid ( sadley) thats are abused neglected..raped and beaten and dont go killing little kids...I mean honetsly....I know first hand !!!! Also the fact they are protected..are you kidding me? And she sold rights to a book!! WTF!!!!! How is this fair or just or right..Im so happy she was able to carry on with her life , and make money of her terrible actions....You know I love the fact she took that walk down memeory lane to tell( her story..mind you....not and Im sorry ...let me drudge it up and make some profit off of it (( has anyone read this book by the way)) and also have a child and now she is a grandmother well good for her! Not only did she murder..she brought children into this world to deal with the stigma of haveing a murdering mama and grandmother.....Im sorry I dont get it...Im all for people can change....Im all for poor abused kids.....Im sorry she was used by johns .....but ya know what..nothing excuses what she did....nothing....there are two innocent baby boys whos families lives are ruined by her slefish actions....there are two DEAD kids that are dead because of her!!!!! I have to hope there is a day of reckoning for everyone....and hopefully this bitch will be ready for hers.

  22. 02-10-2009, 12:31 PM

  23. #65
    Lisamarie Guest
    you be her friend then.....

  24. 02-10-2009, 02:07 PM

  25. #66
    Hobbes12 Guest
    Norma Bell was later given three years probation for breaking and entering the Woodlands Crescent Nursery, and placed under psychiatric supervision.

  26. #67
    ZoeAnne Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by stacebabe View Post
    That was the James Bulger case, and the first time I read it in its entirety, I literally cried.

    Jon Venables and Robert Thompson were the murderers that got new identities. I was just looking on Wiki, and saw this:

    "In September 2007, it was reported that Robert Thompson was living in Carshalton, Greater London, with his girlfriend and their young child and that he was using the first name "James". " --- I don't know if he's using James as a sick joke, or to remind himself daily of what he's done, but either way, I'm not sure I like it.

    I remember sitting at work one night hearing of their release under new identities....made me sick. It basically gives kids like this and Mary Bell and all others out there, permission to kill and still have a life when they become adults!! It's just not right!!

  27. #68
    Lisamarie Guest
    No its not and we all know right and wrong ........

  28. #69
    tarsier Guest
    Mary Bell came from bad stock her mother was aweful with no parenting skills at all and the father; who knows who or what he was. This kid never had a chance I've always been morer curious about her accomplice Narma Bell, wasn't it?

  29. #70
    Hobbes12 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by tarsier View Post
    Mary Bell came from bad stock her mother was aweful with no parenting skills at all and the father; who knows who or what he was. This kid never had a chance I've always been morer curious about her accomplice Narma Bell, wasn't it?
    Norma Bell got off real easy...

  30. #71
    ZoeAnne Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by stacebabe View Post
    Very eloquent post, and I appreciate that point of view.

    I, however, am a pessimist at heart. I'm also a mom. If my child were James Bulger or Brian or Martin -- I'd be horrified that their murderers were given a free ride for the rest of their lives. The sheer viciousness of the attacks on all 3 children warrant - to me - having to pay for that for the rest of your lives. I'm not of the mindset that the crime just goes away when a murderer walks out of the prisions. Surely the parents of those children will continue to live with the horror for the rest of their lives. I believe the killers should too.

    Altho, not a parent, I agree with everything you have said. I think if folks want to use the parents and a 'bad childhood' as an excuse for what these kids do......fine, punish the parent too!! Everybody looks for a scapegoat in life when something bad goes down. People need to be responsible for their own actions. And parents need to be responsible for their kids!! If I were a mother, and my kid was killed by another child in this manner.....I could care less if she had a bad upbringing.....especially if my child never got to see the age of 10!!! I would totally be horrified if something happened to one of my nieces like this!! Maybe it isn't totally the child-killers fault, but I certainly would not reward him/her with anonymity at a certain age.

  31. #72
    Lisamarie Guest
    and I mean look I had a childhood that would leave most people shaking naked in the fetal position in a cold shower...yet I havent killed anyone .....I feel like it sometimes lol!! But I could not hurt anyone the way this girl did....

  32. #73
    cherryghost Guest
    So did she die yet ?

  33. #74
    ZoeAnne Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Lisamarie View Post
    and I mean look I had a childhood that would leave most people shaking naked in the fetal position in a cold shower...yet I havent killed anyone .....I feel like it sometimes lol!! But I could not hurt anyone the way this girl did....

    So sorry about your childhood......I was sexually abused as a child and altho it prolly has alot to do with my relationship issues......I've never killed anyone either. There are many of us 'walking wounded' out in the world who could never do what she did!! (Hell, the first time I ever ran over a squirrel, I cried the rest of the way to work and went a different way home so I didn't have to see it.) I just can't buy that as any kind of excuse for taking an innocent life. Personally, I would think it would make a person better.....or at least want to be.

    That which doesn't kill us, only makes us stronger..........?

  34. #75
    TallulahDahling Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by cherryghost View Post
    So did she die yet ?
    I found an article that she was alive in 1998 living under an assumed name but the name wasn't released.

    Here's the story http://observer.guardian.co.uk/focus...688106,00.html

  35. #76
    zombiexgirl Guest
    I just happened to find out about this whole story in Feb. and shared it with some other online friends who informed me there was a Macabre song about it:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a77FnJQGav4

  36. #77
    ***diana*** Guest
    This is the first I have heard of this story. How horrible. My little boy is 3 years old and looks like little Martin. It just makes me ill to think of someone doing something like that to him. I can't believe how sick that child was. I really do hope she got the help she needed, but it doesn't sound like it.

  37. #78
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    Hey! Im a geordie!

  38. #79
    Frazzzld Kat Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by cherryghost View Post
    So did she die yet ?
    I was wondering the same thing... since this is posted under 'Other Deaths'... I was thinking Mary Bell finally kicked the bucket.

  39. #80
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    nah, shes still alive she has a daughter who would be in her 20's now. they both have different identities.

  40. #81
    Frazzzld Kat Guest
    Then this thread should be moved? She hasn't died yet and its titled Mary Bell so its in the wrong place...?

  41. #82
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    very true

  42. #83
    Old Soul Guest
    Some kids dont have a concept of life and death. They dont know death is as final as it is, plus trauma that makes kids act out we dont know what happened to her.

    I have known some kids from fucked up homes that killed animals, to a kid i dont really think it would be different.

  43. #84
    ZoeAnne Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Frazzzld Kat View Post
    Then this thread should be moved? She hasn't died yet and its titled Mary Bell so its in the wrong place...?

    Its probably here because she killed.....maybe the title could be modified.....just a thought......

  44. #85
    Old Soul Guest
    good idea. I thought she had died too

  45. #86
    Dollyplum Guest
    Me too, but hay we can all have wishes. Sure jackos keeping her a space on the nineth circle of hell.

  46. #87
    punklove Guest
    http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/ca...491020dWBgXYDe#

    Interesting show about her.

    Bell is the subject of two books by Gitta Sereny; The Case of Mary Bell (1972), an account of the killings and trial, and Cries Unheard: the Story of Mary Bell (1998), an in-depth biography based on interviews with Bell and relatives, friends and professionals who knew her during and after her imprisonment. This second book was the first to detail Bell's account of sexual abuse by her mother, a prostitute who specialized as a dominatrix, and her mother's clients.
    The publication of Cries Unheard was controversial because Bell received payment for her participation. The payment was criticised by the tabloid press, and the Blair government attempted to find a legal means to prevent its publication on the grounds that a criminal should not profit from his or her crimes, but the attempt was unsuccessful.
    The daughter's anonymity was originally protected until she reached the age of 18. However, on 21 May 2003, Bell won a High Court battle to have her own anonymity and that of her daughter extended for life.

  47. #88
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    Mary Bell

    I've noticed there is no thread for her, and I really would like to know more about her whereabouts today (including a recent pic, of course). So, here we go...

    Mary Bell was convicted of strangling a young boy, Martin Brown, on May 25, 1968, the day before her 11th birthday. She was, as far as anyone knows, alone on this occasion. On July 31, 1968, Mary and her friend (Norma Bell ?? no relation to Mary) took part in the death, again by strangulation, of three-year-old Brian Howe. Police reports concluded that Mary Bell had gone back after killing him to carve an ??N? into his stomach with a razor, this was then changed using the same razor but with a different hand to an ??M?. Mary Bell also used a pair of scissors to cut off bits of Brian Howe??s hair and part of his genitals. As the girls were so young and their testimonies contradicted each other, it has never been entirely clear precisely what happened. Martin Brown??s death was initially ruled an accident as there was no evidence of foul play. Eventually, his death was linked with Brian Howe??s killing and in August, the two girls were charged with two counts of manslaughter. Mary was released in 1980 with court ordered anonymity. In 2003, the courts awarded her and her daughter anonymity for life.

  48. #89
    Mulvaness Guest
    I am pretty sure there is a thread on her somewhere, maybe the serial killer's thread. I know at one point the reporters found her and they had to give her another id and that is when her daughter found out who she was.

  49. #90
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    I remember reading her story from the crime library, and it's positively haunting. I know I saw a picture of her as an adult, and I remember thing how very ordinary she looked, that no one would ever guess she was a murderer before she ever saw her 12th birthday.

    What struck me as particularly evil was that she knocked on the door of the home where one of her victims lived. It was like the day after she'd killed this mother's little boy, and Mary went to the door and asked to see him. The mother told her he was dead, and Mary said she knew that, and she wanted to see him "in his casket." The mother was understandably mortified and closed the door on her.

    I was thinking how very evil that was, particularly of a ten-year-old child. She wanted to see the corpse she'd made of this three-year-old boy. Chilling!

    Like Robert Thompson and Jon Venables, who killed at a very young age, she was given anonymity and a fresh start at life after doing her time. I'm not sure how that's going to work out, or if it's fair to the victims (and any future victims there might be). I just don't know that that level of evil really goes away with maturity.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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  50. #91
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    She's a grandmother now - or I should say as of 2009.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ms-mother.html

    This photo from 1998 is the most recent one I can find:



    VCNJ~
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  51. #92
    deanfan Guest
    Very disturbing for a child to be capable of murder and show no remorse. They should've locked her away for good. I'd hate to have her as a neighbor.

  52. #93
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    so she was in jail from 1968 to 1980?? I dont get why she gets anonymity.. She must be mentally ill, did they evaluate her?

  53. #94
    JennyMominRI Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by suzycreamcheese View Post
    so she was in jail from 1968 to 1980?? I dont get why she gets anonymity.. She must be mentally ill, did they evaluate her?
    I read a book about her. She was abused and sold out as a prostitute as a small child. She spent years getting mental treatment. There was another child involved in the killings too.I believe that the anonymity was , in part, to protect her daughter
    Last edited by JennyMominRI; 08-07-2011 at 06:27 PM.

  54. #95
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    A huge thank you to the moderators who merged my thread with this one.

  55. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by helo99 View Post
    A huge thank you to the moderators who merged my thread with this one.
    Anytime
    .

  56. #97
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    I totally don't understand why they give these psychos immunity. They should have to live with their mistakes. Yes, the girl had a terrible childhood and upbringing, but she was a psycho killer. I don't care if she has supposedly changed. Someone who was that cunning at 11 would probably be able to fool people as an adult.

    Has anyone read the book about her where she claims she wanted to set the record straight?


  57. #98
    Lisamarie Guest
    I feel the same way . I feel if the crime is an adult crime so should the punshiment. Now days tho just kill a baby in Florida , Orlando to be specific and apparently its everyone else fault...Or Go to Canada and play the poor me cards (( Karla)) Or jolly old England and they will no only set you free. ( James Buger killers) But protect you..(Mary Bell)..I dont get it!

  58. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lisamarie View Post
    I feel the same way . I feel if the crime is an adult crime so should the punshiment. Now days tho just kill a baby in Florida , Orlando to be specific and apparently its everyone else fault...Or Go to Canada and play the poor me cards (( Karla)) Or jolly old England and they will no only set you free. ( James Buger killers) But protect you..(Mary Bell)..I dont get it!
    Makes me think of the Parker-Hulme case in New Zeland. Both girls were released and Juliet Hulme is now bestselling author Anne Perry.


  59. #100
    JennyMominRI Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by atomicbettie View Post
    I totally don't understand why they give these psychos immunity. They should have to live with their mistakes. Yes, the girl had a terrible childhood and upbringing, but she was a psycho killer. I don't care if she has supposedly changed. Someone who was that cunning at 11 would probably be able to fool people as an adult.

    Has anyone read the book about her where she claims she wanted to set the record straight?
    Cries Unheard? Yeah, I read it several years ago. I don't remember a whole lot

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