Dr. Harold Perelson Murder/Suicide

[lizzieborden]

I joined this forum so I could blurble about this story, about which I had never heard, which is astonishing because I am a complete and utter death hag. I have several of Scott Michaels's DVDs and find this subject absolutely fascinating! I, too, came here through the Abandoned Mansions article in Forbes and have been obsessed with this story all day. Navillant, I think you're right on. It totally is her. Anyway, like most of the rest of you, I would give my left eyeball to get in that house, poke around the drawers, and just be in general death hag heaven. Someone must write a book! I just cannot understand why the house would be left frozen in time like this. What would the reason be? Why buy it and leave it? Why inherit it and leave it? I just have to KNOW!

[lizzieborden]

In searching for Judith Perelman Hendler online, I came across the following Funeral Notice from the Palm Beach Post. Cousins listed as Judtih Hendler and Joel Perelson. Coincidence?

ARTHUR ROBERT KRAMERArthur Robert Kramer
ARTHUR ROBERT KRAMER Arthur Robert Kramer, age 58, of Sebastian, FL, formerly of Boynton Beach, FL, was taken from family and friends suddenly on September 16, 2009 at Sebastian River Medical Center, Sebastian, FL. He was born and raised in Queens, NY and moved to North Carolina in 1978, where he worked as a machinist for his father's business. He moved to Boynton Beach, FL in 1983. He was an avid golfer, bowler and fisherman. His love of golf was the reason he changed careers midlife, working in golf maintenance as a greens keeper. He was preceded in death by father, Jacob Kramer. Cherishing his memory is wife, Sheila; daughter, Katie; son Christian and mother, Esther (Perelson); cousins, Judith Hendler, Joel Perelson, Debbie and Donald Gabel and Furbie, his cat. There will be a gathering of family and friends for a celebration of Arthur's life on October 24, 2009 from 3-6 PM at the home of Paul and Jill Welling in Lighthouse Point, FL. A Guestbook may be signed at www.yatesfuneralhome.com To express condolences and/or make donations Visit PalmBeachPost.com/obituaries

[nightdiva]

I also found this thread through the Forbes article and too was "Hooked'. I spent 2 nights reading every post. I checked out the YouTube video and I agree it sure looks like her the resemblance is uncanny. I can't wait for more information the suspense is killing me (no pun intended). I also have to wonder how she must feel knowing that the house is still sitting there frozen in time of such a horrible memory. I'm guessing she has no legal interests in the place. But the creepiness is with the people who bought it after fact. I can understand buying a house and not living in it but WHY would you leave all that stuff in there like that and preserve it like a morbid museum all this time. Also I found another picture of her she looks a little younger in one of the shots.

http://www.judithhendler.com/about.php

[ginapie711]

I just found some more articles, but these ones say "officers said the doctor was in no financial trouble--that it must have been a family quarrel"... they also state that the neighbor, Attorney Marshall Ross, actually had contact with the doctor when he entered the house, where as all the other articles I've seen stated that he never saw the doctor alive once he entered the house. Hmmmm...

[solacetea]

Long-time Death Hag (I have the bumper sticker to prove it!) who lost their old login..I re-registered just to comment on this story. I found this article via an article in my local paper about creepy abandoned mansions (Lynnewood Hall, also in the article, is local to me).
Judith Handler is definitely Judye Perelson. I bet she grew up relatively well-adjusted for a family murder-suicide victim, orrible as it is, because her siblings were spared.

[Pat MaGroin]

I read the Forbes article the other day and found this site. I read this entire thread and I now I'm hooked. I have always had a strange love for abandoned houses and the stories behind who lived there.

I did the same thing...looked up that video of Judith Hendler on Youtube and compared to the senior pic. It's totally her...same facial structure...and omg, those eyebrows...lol...they are the exact same.
Obviously, she's not interested in being found or telling her story, but I wish she would. So sorry, but that jewelry is terrible
Earlier in this thread someone mentioned wanting to know who lived there before and I found some info that the house was built for Harry Schumacher by the architect Harry E. Weiner in 1925 then as we know Zelnick was renting it by 1930. I don't believe that Schumacher actually died in the house, but sounds like Beaton's son did, though. The previous article that was posted by ginapie said that Welford Beaton's young son died in the house. Welford Beaton was a big film critic back in the day. I read this on another site, but I couldn't find any info on google about his son. I wonder when the Perelson's moved in? I also, want to know what the hell the current owner is doing.
This really fascinates me...I wish I didn't live across the country because I want to check it out!! I need a tour...haha.

HARRY WEINER?

Bwahahahahahaha!!!!

[babyblujems]

There's also a Debbie and she's married to some guy interesting huh?

In searching for Judith Perelman Hendler online, I came across the following Funeral Notice from the Palm Beach Post. Cousins listed as Judtih Hendler and Joel Perelson. Coincidence?

ARTHUR ROBERT KRAMERArthur Robert Kramer
ARTHUR ROBERT KRAMER Arthur Robert Kramer, age 58, of Sebastian, FL, formerly of Boynton Beach, FL, was taken from family and friends suddenly on September 16, 2009 at Sebastian River Medical Center, Sebastian, FL. He was born and raised in Queens, NY and moved to North Carolina in 1978, where he worked as a machinist for his father's business. He moved to Boynton Beach, FL in 1983. He was an avid golfer, bowler and fisherman. His love of golf was the reason he changed careers midlife, working in golf maintenance as a greens keeper. He was preceded in death by father, Jacob Kramer. Cherishing his memory is wife, Sheila; daughter, Katie; son Christian and mother, Esther (Perelson); cousins, Judith Hendler, Joel Perelson, Debbie and Donald Gabel and Furbie, his cat. There will be a gathering of family and friends for a celebration of Arthur's life on October 24, 2009 from 3-6 PM at the home of Paul and Jill Welling in Lighthouse Point, FL. A Guestbook may be signed at www.yatesfuneralhome.com To express condolences and/or make donations Visit PalmBeachPost.com/obituaries

[lizzieborden]

There's also a Debbie and she's married to some guy interesting huh?

I forgot about poor Debbie, "Just go back to sleep this is a nightmare" was part of the family too. Hopefully they have overcome this tragedy to lead productive lives.

If we can only discover why the house is frozen in time!

[nightdiva]

Well I have been searching my butt off trying to find ANYTHING that hasn't already been posted. Hope someone has better research skills than me. I think having the guys from Ghost Adventures do a show on the house would be awesome, if anything at least we'd get a peek inside.

[ames]

HARRY WEINER?

Bwahahahahahaha!!!!

I know, right!!

[ames]

I just found some more articles, but these ones say "officers said the doctor was in no financial trouble--that it must have been a family quarrel"... they also state that the neighbor, Attorney Marshall Ross, actually had contact with the doctor when he entered the house, where as all the other articles I've seen stated that he never saw the doctor alive once he entered the house. Hmmmm...

That's what makes this so interesting...it is so bizarre...there are so many unanswered questions~ I mean, why did he just attack his wife and Judye and not the other kids? Did he drink acid or take pills? I wonder how long he had been nuts. Someone sortof family quarrel is putting it lightly...we all have quarrels and we don't attack our family members with hammers. And what the hell is the current owner doing? Who does that? You know the taxes alone on that property have to be expensive...def, has to be some relation to the family or something, but how?

Did anyone ever contact him? I saw on a previous post someone tried. Because it seems like someone could just ask him straight up what he's doing with the house and why did his parents by it and not do anything with it...they probably have but he's so weird and evasive...idk.

Judye needs to write a book for sure...but it's hard not to blame her...how horrific. I do think it's wondefulr that she grew up to be successful and well-adjusted though. I did try to google Judith Hendler and see if I could find any bio information and there's nothing about her upbringing, etc.
Ahhh, I want to know!!

[RogerV]

Well I have been searching my butt off trying to find ANYTHING that hasn't already been posted. Hope someone has better research skills than me. I think having the guys from Ghost Adventures do a show on the house would be awesome, if anything at least we'd get a peek inside.

I think I've said this before, but I suspect that extended family members "clammed up" and didn't let the press know many details. The kids were probably taken into "protective custody" or whatever they call it, and then whisked away to the East Coast by relatives who probably snipped articles that might have appeared in any newspapers.

As for the family not being in financial difficulties, the police found a letter written by Judye to her aunt describing "troubles as usual," or something to that effect, and also saying she wanted to get a job so she could help out with the family's finances.

One other thing I just thought of is that if Jewish custom had been observed, the doctor and his wife would have been buried right away. However, I'm not sure how closely a Jewish family with a Christmas tree in their house followed traditional customs, and legal proceedings might well have delayed things.

That reminds me of one more thing... in looking at the names of tenants and owners of the house, I think it's a fair guess that most of them were Jewish. This in itself may not mean anything, but does anyone know if L.A. was ever "redlined?" (unofficially segregated)

[Linnie]

Richard W. Udko, Judith's first husband, is an attorney in Beverly Hills. But on the side, he apparently is also a jewelry designer and holds numerous patents. These involve actual gemstones:
http://www.patentgenius.com/invented...lyHillsCA.html

He eventually married Billie Hope and had two sons; the couple is involved with a lot of charities and the arts. Richard's father, the late Manuel "Manny" Udko (1915-2007), who was a prominent jeweler, was one of Melissa Gilbert's stepfathers for several years (her mother Barbara seems to have gone for older men.) He helped her financially when she was going through a bleak period between her marriages.

[solacetea]

I just found some more articles, but these ones say "officers said the doctor was in no financial trouble--that it must have been a family quarrel"... they also state that the neighbor, Attorney Marshall Ross, actually had contact with the doctor when he entered the house, where as all the other articles I've seen stated that he never saw the doctor alive once he entered the house. Hmmmm...

The newspaper article states that the doctor killed himself with barbiturates. Perhaps he was addicted to prescription srugs and was self-prescribing them. That could certainly cause family strife and make your behavior unstable.

[NOVSTORM]

What ever happened that night revolved around Judye. They fought about something that she ahs either done or was going to do or something Daddy had done? He only wanted to kill his wife and Judye so it seems to me that Judye was the cause ,if it you can call it that, of what happened? Too bad we dont know someone in the LA coroners office and they could get a peek at his autopsy report.

[Angelina]

It gets better and better I love reading this thread, I'm coming to LA in 2013 for my 40th and this is on my to do list

[Giada]

I don't like the idea of a teen aged daughter being accused of the, "possible cause," of a parent's murder/suicide.

The father was mentally unstable ... bottom line.

This story has a life of it's own endlessly repeated, therefore, it must me true ... It is like reading a Nancy Drew ...

The only thing I find odd is the current owner. Why not use the property as a rental?

Possibly a needed tax write off. As to property taxes, if he is under Prop 13, these would be negligible.

[terriek]

Hello All,
My boyfriend and I went to the house yesterday! I will admit, When we first arrived and after seeing the NO TRESPASSING sign, I was scared to take the walk up all those stairs. My boyfriend had no problems with this and did go up and looked in the windows and tried to open all the doors....Well I knew I would be pissed off at myself if I didn't go and look and take pics, so I did it! The house doesn't look like its in bad shape to me. It is such a beautiful house!!!!! I did NOT see a Christmas tree or presents but in the back room of the house there was xmas wrapping paper on a bench and there was a old newspaper on the floor which I would love to know what date is on the newspaper! There were tubs with old clothes in them (not sure if they were the families clothes but they were very old). The other thing I found interesting was in the living room there is a bookshelf with ONE pic on the shelf. I tried to include this in the pic as well....It looks to me as if it is a portrait of a woman. I only had my cell phone to take pics with but you can also see there tv, file cabnet, games etc....I am going to post the pics I was able to get. I took pics from every window that was open. We are planning on going back with my digital camera in the near future. I really would like to get to the second story of this house. This house would be very easy to break in to as I think the original doors are on the house and with one hard pull...I am sure we could have done it. But breaking and entering kind of scares me! lol...Pics to follow as I am trying to figure out how to post them on here! Also...the back yard is pretty secluded if i could get a ladder, I am sure we could take pics from the windows of the second floor....still trying to figure out how to do this.....And there was trash in the trash can. they had food in them....Not sure if its from the house or if the neighbors use the trash cans....but it smelled like something had died (in the trash)

[navallint]

On pg. 9, post 410 I placed some research I did last fall. What I found thur up a red flag in my mind, but I only hinted at it.
Judy was born in 1941. Harold's enlistment papers of 1942 stated he had NO dependants. I was certain I had the wrong Army documents, wrong man, but the address matched his. Maybe he did not claim dependents, had the means to provide otherwise, but I dont think so. You can see where I am going.
Could it be Judy was not his daughter. This just speculation, IMO. Maybe her mother told her about her bio dad and she wanted to find him. Maybe she did and it sent him over the edge. I am in no way blaming her for his leap into insainty, but this could send a proud man of that era over the edge. Along with all his other problems

[Giada]

Thank you for your comment and I do understand your speculation.

Given how mentally unstable this man was, and how brutal the slaying, (truly a hate crime, and we don't know if his wife was a direct or indirect target of his mental state).

As a doctor he had unlimited access to meds, and I doubt if a full tox screen or whatever was available at the time, was completed.

My simple speculation would be, Judye heard either a commotion or her mother scream and came to her aid, Harold then turning to stop her by hitting her as well.

It doesn't appear as if he checked to see if she was dead before he committed suicide.

[ames]

That reminds me of one more thing... in looking at the names of tenants and owners of the house, I think it's a fair guess that most of them were Jewish. This in itself may not mean anything, but does anyone know if L.A. was ever "redlined?" (unofficially segregated)

I noticed that and I wondered and I thought it seemed odd. I am not familiar with LA segregation though. When I was searching, I wanted to be able to find some sort of connection between the Enriquez (sp?) family and the Perelson's or former owners because I thought that might explain something.

[RogerV]

I'd have to go back and re-read several pages, but I believe the wife had at least once had him committed for severe depression. Of course if word of that ever got out, his practice would have been shot to hell. Already resentful of the first time, he may have just gone over the edge when it looked like it might happen again.

There would have had to have been some preparation... most people don't have hammers just lying around their bedrooms, and he had to have a dose of something handy that would be fatal. One printed story suggested an overdose of barbituates, but I don't THINK they kill that fast. Hence, I'm holding out for prussic acid (cyanide).

[nightdiva]

Good job "terriek" I bow to your bravery can't wait to see the pics. And thanks to everyone else on the great detective work. I guess if we all hang in there long enough we're bound to get the whole story. If i didn't live half way across the country I know I would have had to venture up there. I have also been thinking that one of the neighbors must know what's going on you know they have to be just as curious as the rest of us probably even more since an abandoned decaying house can affect all their property values. You would think they spoke to the owners and what their plans are?

[Linnie]

On pg. 9, post 410 I placed some research I did last fall. What I found thur up a red flag in my mind, but I only hinted at it.
Judy was born in 1941. Harold's enlistment papers of 1942 stated he had NO dependants. I was certain I had the wrong Army documents, wrong man, but the address matched his. Maybe he did not claim dependents, had the means to provide otherwise, but I dont think so. You can see where I am going.
Could it be Judy was not his daughter. This just speculation, IMO. Maybe her mother told her about her bio dad and she wanted to find him. Maybe she did and it sent him over the edge. I am in no way blaming her for his leap into insainty, but this could send a proud man of that era over the edge. Along with all his other problems

When, exactly, did Harold and Lillian get married? This would likely settle the issue of whether Harold was Judye's father. If the couple had already been dating in 1940 and Lillian got pregnant, they very probably would have married at that point, and been counted as dependents.

Lillian was already 27 when Judye was born. Perhaps she had a brief marriage that didn't work out, and Harold adopted the little girl outright, which led to her birth records being changed?

There is a big gap between Judye and Joel, though if the father was away from home due to military service from 1942 through 1945, that would account for some of that.

[NOVSTORM]

I don't like the idea of a teen aged daughter being accused of the, "possible cause," of a parent's murder/suicide.

The father was mentally unstable ... bottom line.

This story has a life of it's own endlessly repeated, therefore, it must me true ... It is like reading a Nancy Drew ...

The only thing I find odd is the current owner. Why not use the property as a rental?

Possibly a needed tax write off. As to property taxes, if he is under Prop 13, these would be negligible.

No it is not the bottom line, There is no proof that he was mentally unstable and no proof that Judye was the cause, We are all specualting in here,l

[Linnie]

On one hand, I almost wish everyone in this story had died a century ago, because one always wonders if the subjects will peruse this site or similar ones, and feel hurt or angry. On the other hand, if they hadn't left that big beautiful house uninhabited and so tantalizingly full of objects apparently from that terrible, yet mysterious, day, nobody would have been interested in them at all. It's as though someone WANTED this troubling type of immortality. In any case, hopefully, they would understand why people are still asking these questions, speculating and doing research.

Especially, with all the horrific family annihilations that are hitting the news practically every freaking week in the last few years!!! For example, Dr. Perelson was in the military, and that woman who killed her teens a couple of months ago had been in the military. Who knows what went on in the training or war experiences of these two that might have led to their actions?

[Giada]

No it is not the bottom line, There is no proof that he was mentally unstable and no proof that Judye was the cause, We are all specualting in here,l

Not everything on this thread is, "speculative." There are facts presented, here, and elsewhere on Perelson's hospitalization in a mental facility.

[da90027]

I'd like to use a ball peen hammer on Mr. Enriquez for being such a whack job.

Surely anyone could use a million dollars which even in this economy is what that place would fetch.

I just hope some moron with more money than taste doesn't remodel it into all the gaudy Faux Mediterranean messes we now see in Beverly Hills and Los Feliz.

Restoring this house to it's original condition would be the way to go, what passes for upscale these days is really cheap looking to me.

I lived at 555 Ave 64 iin Pasadena from 1964 to 1972. That house was a murder scene in December 1954 when Harold Oilar axe murdered his whole family with his son's boy scout axe. Google it, it was a creepy house but I survived and so can this house, I'd live here in a minute if it were restored.

[SnarkMouse]

Long-time lurker, but like others, I was lured into registering by this thread. I'd read about this house before, but not until reading the articles posted in this thread did I realize that the younger daughter had seen part of what happened. I'd always wondered why he only attacked the wife and the older daughter. Knowing about the younger daughter catching him "in the act," though, I think that he probably originally planned to kill the entire family, but hadn't counted on Judye screaming and waking up the rest of the family. By telling the younger daughter to go back to bed, I think he was thinking that she'd go back to bed, fall back asleep, and then he could carry out the rest of his plan. But since Judye was able to escape while he was distracted by dealing with Debbie, I think he realized the "jig was up" and decided abandon the plan (to kill the other two as well). By killing the wife and attacking the oldest daughter first, he's taking out the two biggest "threats" to stopping him (the ones physically biggest and thus able to fight back the most). So I'm not sure any more that he intended to kill only the mother and oldest daughter, but instead maybe he was just interrupted halfway through his plan.

I also wonder about the whole poison vs. pills thing. Because pills take a bit to build up in your system enough to depress your breathing, don't they? It's not instantaneous like a bullet. So maybe he dosed up before starting on his rampage, but underestimated how long it would take to deliver a sufficient number of blows (*shiver*), and then passed out before the neighbor got there (or shortly after). One of the posted articles said that he was found in Judye's room with his face in her pillow, which kind of sounds like he just dropped where he was, as if the pills finally kicked in. If he'd downed a glass of acid...I mean, wouldn't that be excruciating? When you read about people who accidentally swallow bleach or drain cleaner or something, it's always described as these horrible burns to the esophagus--but it seems like a kind of lingering, horrible death, not something immediate. Why would he go pour a glass of acid, drink it, and then return to his recently escaped daughter's bed to die? Wouldn't he just lay down wherever the acid was poured, or go back to his own bed? Surely he didn't carry a ball peen hammer and a glass of acid into Judye's room.

Two other things: the neighbor may very well have embellished a bit in saying, "I talked to him, blah blah blah," in trying to inflate his role in the story a bit, or seem like, "I did the manly 1950s thing, and talked to him man to man." I think it's natural to do that, if nothing else, to feel like maybe at least for a minute there was a chance you could have talked sense into him. People often inflate their connections to a news story (or perhaps that particular reporter wanted to spice the story up a bit, not that it needed it). The other thing is that I think it's entirely possible that the birth/marriage dates are off a bit in the military records. I remember when my grandparents died, my mother found all my grandfather's service papers from WWII, and there were some listed discrepancies in her date of birth and their wedding date. My grandparents may have fudged things with my mother's birthdate so that it looked like she was conceived and born after they were married, either to ensure she would be counted as a military dependent, or because "nice Catholic girls" like my grandmother weren't supposed to be having pre-marital sex (or both). So sometimes people lie when giving information to officials, for whatever reason. It's also entirely possible that any discrepancy in Perelson's military records was just a mistake--it would be pretty easy for a clerk to make a typo when entering data.

Sorry for the long first post!

[terriek]

Thanks, but I can't figure out how to upload them on this page.....Well I found where you do it but it wont work.....If you want to give me your email address I will email them to you....

[RogerV]

I couldn't agree with you more, DA 90027. When I started this thread, I had no idea it would run on for as long as it has (and will continue to). I think that perhaps the attraction is the fact that the story isn't over yet; we still don't know why the house has been left to sit empty all this time. Did
Rudy Enriquez's family work for the Perlesons, and is he somehow waiting for them to come home? Too hard to say at this point.

Another thing that occurs to me to me is I think we could set up a damned good detective agency with all the investigative skills I've seen demonstrated in this thread. One of the newspaper articles says the whereabouts of the three children are unknown, and I think we've accounted for all of them, haven't we? The two jewels as yet undiscovered (other than getting into the house itself) are the police report and the Coroner's report. I wish I could do more, but I'm up here in chilly, rainy Portland.

However, one thing is certain; this house needs to be RESTORED, not modernized. Heating/cooling systems, wiring, plumbing, even another bathroom or two can all be redone without altering its appearance, inside or out. Heck, I think there's even room for a swimming pool. Thank you all for your work and interest... I'm sure we'll find more somewhere!

[RogerV]

Unfortunately, this one depends on me winning a mega-lottery, but it's a nice idea anyway. Once I have the place property restored, Scott can add a "special" tour that ends with dinner at the house. I know that usually means you have to comply with all kinds of health, safety, and handicapped access regulations, but I THINK you can get around most of them if you have the meal prepared and served by professional caterers. Anyone else like that idea?

[ames]

Love it! I'd be flying cross country in a heartbeat.

[ames]

Guys sorry in advance that is long...I'm from the South so, were long-winded...

Snarkmouse~
You make some excellent points. Definitely would love to get ahold of that police report and autopsy report. I am a RN so, I have experience with pharmacology (although, def not a barbiturate expert) and medical history is a great love of mine. Anyways, I would assume given the era that the crime occured and the newspaper reports the "poison" was some sort of barbiturate dissolved in liquid (most likely water). This class of medication was used frequently during this time and he could have easily obtained it. He would have had extensive knowledge of the drug class. Barbiturates are not used commonly today because of the increased risk of accidental od associated with their use. Yes, you are correct that it would take a "normal" pill at least 30 mins to begin acting on the nervous system or target organ. This would depend on the medication, dose, and tolerance of the individual, but barbiturates are/were available in various acting intervals. There are some classified as "ultra-quick acting" and drugs like this are used in lethal injection. So, idk how sure I am that drank a class of "acid" per se. We all know how unreliable newpaper reports can be and especially back in the day when the public had less general medical and forensic knowledge, who knows what the truth really is.

I wonder if Dr. Perelson wasn't addicted to barbiturates or something similar. This was common during that time and could explain his erratic behavior, family, and money problems. Sounds like his wife was trying to keep him afloat and he was pissed at her actions and tired of trying...the whole ordeal is so tragic. Did he go to WW2 ('42-45 sounds like he did)? He could have been first exposed to barbituates during this time. Because I would assume that (if he did go to war) all this could have been precipitated by PTSD (Post traumatic stress disorder, if he wasn't unstable already). PTSD or shell shock as it was known then, would have affected him since the war. I am surprised by his actions as I would expect him to be more suicidal then suicidal and homicidal...who really knows?

That brings up another point that you made, I had the same experience with my own grandfather's war records. They were off a year or so, def can explain why Judye and his wife could not have been listed, if she is his biological child. They share similar facial characteristics and features.

And everyone has noticed the age difference in the children...this could be related to Dr. Perelson's mental instability?
They could have (for whatever reason) just not been able to conceive...we didn't have IVF back then and people weren't popping out twins and multiples like today. My dad and his sister were born 8 years apart for that reason.

Last thing, couldn't someone just contact Enriquez try to interview him or see if he'd be willing to discuss anything? Has he always been that evasive?

[ames]

I wonder how difficult it would be to obtain the police report and autopsy report? Someone in CA should try to do it.
Nevermind, I just read the Public Records Act of 2004. It would have to be someone who is either the victim of the crime or have legal reasons access to the records. This act is super long so, maybe there's someone out there!

[ames]

Snarkmouse~
It was reported that he was found lying next to his wife's bed.

[smarthayo]

Okay sorry I'm only up to post #451 but as I'm trying to savor the thread and I can't contain my curiousity any longer. I was wondering if anyone has done any research on ancestry.com to try and find a connection between the Perelsons and the current owners. I was also wondering if it might be easier to park on the street behind the house and walk through the back yard, maybe this would give you more time before the neighbors see you.

[aLiLdirt]

Looking forward to seeing those pictures, terriek!

I'm a bit jealous that you got to visit the house

[solacetea]

And everyone has noticed the age difference in the children...this could be related to Dr. Perelson's mental instability?
They could have (for whatever reason) just not been able to conceive...we didn't have IVF back then and people weren't popping out twins and multiples like today. My dad and his sister were born 8 years apart for that reason.

There are several instances of this in my family, and it was due to the mother having a miscarriage (or several) between live births. Conceiving wasn't a problem, but carrying to term was.

[nightdiva]

Thanks, but I can't figure out how to upload them on this page.....Well I found where you do it but it wont work.....If you want to give me your email address I will email them to you....

[nightdiva]

Snarkmouse-Ames
Really great insight from you both. Also on the issue of the dates back (in the day) a lot of people did lie on legal documents or for other reasons. I know my Mother lied about her age when she was a young girl to get a job. Also people who were not old enough to get married did the same. I don't think the system pick up on those things back then. Or as you've said could just be a clerical error on someones part. Non the less I enjoyed your posts

[nightdiva]

terriek~
I would love for you to email me the pics but I don't know how to private message you my email through this thread do you know how or anyone else know how? Sorry I'm not the most computer savvy person out here.

[Keres]

If anyone else is planning to visit this house (or RE-visit!), please PM me!
I only live a couple miles from this place, but I don't dare visit alone.

Even posting a heads-up on this thread (no specific date/time so that plans aren't thwarted) would be appreciated.

[terriek]

smarthayo....you can't park in the back as there is no entrance so your only option is to park in front of the house and take that walk up all those steps. lol

a lil dirt.....I can't get them to upload on this site but if you send me your email i can email then to you.....

Keres.....I want to go back with my digital camera.....I would be willing to meet you and go with.....

[terriek]

just email me...TLK1236551@yahoo.com nightdiva....just put name or something in subject line so i know its not junk mail......

[GAdeathhag]

OMGGGGGGGG post the picssssss pleaseeeeeeeeee

[eca1094]

I seen those pics they are awesome....Terriek took some great pictures of the inside.

[Keres]

Cool, Terriek! Let me know when!

I can't wait to see you pics........

[nightdiva]

Well terriek and keres you sound like a great team. What I would give to go with you, and yes I saw the pics too and they were AWESOME!!!!!
Take care and hope to hear from you soon

[AllyTheHag]

I just found this thread and am fascinated by it. I really wish I lived closer to this house -- I'd be there in a heartbeat! Although, I have a sneaking suspicion that the interior of the house might not be as "preserved" as it appears at first glance. It sounds like over the years the house has been used as storage (by the people who originally bought it after the murders); repeatedly vandalized, according to a former neighbor: "We had major problems.," explained Jude Margolis, a former neighborhood resident who now lives in Hancock Park. "Hookers were coming in. Everybody was bringing guests up there. One night I was sitting outside and I noticed that people were over there having a picnic in the backyard," said Margolis, an artist. (The burglar alarm was installed after that.); and even though the current owner has never actually lived in the house, he did state that he visited often and "for a time had two cats inside there."

It's puzzling to me why the current owner just won't sell the house. Anyone else would have probably just taken the money. The reason he gives is that he's not sure what he's going to do with it, yet. Well, the guy is almost eighty years old -- I'd say he better make up his mind soon!

Still, the story itself is spooky enough to grab my attention, and I look forward to more photos and info!

On a side note, this reminds me of a house I knew years ago. I must have been about eleven or twelve years old (in junior high school), and the house next to the school was a very old, empty mansion. It looked like it must have been grand in its day, but it had fallen into terrible disrepair. (The neighborhood had also changed and become commercialized. This was the only "residential home" left on the street). It looked like no one had lived in it for years. The strange thing was, when you looked in the windows, (and my friends and I did this often), all the old furniture was still in it! It looked like the inhabitants had gotten up one morning, left the house for the day and never came back. It was the strangest thing; it haunted me for years! And to add to the creepiness, the building on the other side of the house was a funeral home, so you can imagine the stories that went around the school about this old house! hehe

Just wanted to add, about the motive for the murder, it sounds to me like mental illness or some kind of psychotic break is the most likely explanation. It also sounds like it was an impulsive act (a hammer is most often a weapon of convenience, not choice). The oldest daughter probably just heard the commotion and came to her mother's aid, and that's how she received her injuries. The younger children might have bought the story that it was 'just a nightmare,' but I don't think an eighteen year old would have fallen for that. The doctor might have even decided to commit suicide after he realized what he had done. It all just seems very spontaneous and unplanned. An overdose of barbiturates also sounds unlikely to me -- it seems like whatever he took was a lot more fast-acting, since the daughter ran out of the house for help, and by the time others arrived, the man was already dead.