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Thread: Jon Benet Ramsey

  1. #51
    Mrs. Watson Guest
    Patsy had "issues". To say the least.

  2. #52
    Ruffian Guest
    I just can't be convinced it was an intruder. What intruder would sit in someone's house, find some paper and write a dang novel of a ransom note? Why did Patsy say Burke was sleeping when they clearly heard him in the background on the 911 tape? Who lies about piddly stuff like that when your daughter is missing? Patsy bugged me with her interviews, too. She would repeatedly say "that child" in reference to JonBenet. That freaked me out. Like she was an object and not her baby girl. The other MAJOR thing that bugged me was what did those parents do to help the police? Nothing. They hired PR people and a lawyer and kept their mouths shut. I would tell the police details they didn't even want if it would help them. Those are just some of my issues with this case. I can't get rid of the nagging feeling that the parents had something to do with it. If they didn't, it's gotta be the weirdest case in history.

  3. #53
    Morbid1 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by keef View Post
    Hey Morbid - you really wanna listen to 'The Hunt' By New Model Army. You'd bloody like it

    Second what you said if they did indeed do it but I don't understand how I've yet to be convinced. The Police investigation really was a farce tho.

    K.
    Awesome tune!




    -Morbid1

  4. #54
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    I hope Patsy's burning in hell. That pathetic excuse for a knot around her wrist is all I need to see. That scene was staged.

  5. #55
    Genevieve Guest
    Going from my gut having read the odd newspaper article and not having the same coverage as you in the states, I think the brother is involved and his parents helped cover it up, making the trail of evidence too hard to follow.

  6. #56
    Lisamarie Guest
    Its just a horrible thing to happen to a little girl, and I do feel the parents did not behave the way I would had this happened to me...or any normal people if their beloved daughter was found dead .....It just seems to me there were so many screw ups..on both ends and two very self absorbed people .. I never knew the paint brush bit...so many facts are unknown or were tainted....its just sad and I dont think we will ever know what really happened.... and I always think about the fact it was x-mas eve too..I always wonder what that means.....man I dunno it is heartbreaking!

  7. #57
    ajurk Guest
    i've also read some books about the murder and like someone else said, one book will have you convinced it was the parents and another will have you convinced it was an intruder. i also watched a program recently about karr. he aparently knew things that were never released to the public. from what i recall, police now think that he is in cohoots with the real murderer and the two are sick child molesting perverts. from what i can remember, there were also foot prints on the wall in the basement by the window where the supposide intruder escaped. dna was also found under her nails and saliva was found on her that did not match anyone in the house. plus there were footprints that didnt match anyone in the house. another thing that i felt couldnt be faked, patsy said that when she either saw her daughter was missing, or when they found the body (cant remember which) that she lost her bowels. you really have to have a tramatic experience for that to happen. but then again, the main investigator thinks the parents are guilty so, i just think this is one thing that we will not figure out.

  8. #58
    SanDiegodeathhag19 Guest
    im not sure what to think, i dont think it was an intruder, the whole family seems so sketchy

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Genevieve View Post
    Going from my gut having read the odd newspaper article and not having the same coverage as you in the states, I think the brother is involved and his parents helped cover it up, making the trail of evidence too hard to follow.
    That's what I had always thought as well. As if the parents set the rest of the stage because they were not going to lose both of their children. (And) don't forget that BURKE had hit JON BENET upside her head with a golf club 6 months before her murder. That was documented at the pediatrican's.

    Were it an outsider, then explain the rambling ransom note. Any criminologist will tell you that a criminal with illegal intent wants to get in, do the crime & get out as quickly. What kidnapper would wait until they were in the house to find paper & pen on which to write a 2 1/2 page ransom note that the police figure took over 20 minutes to concoct ?

    (And) if the purpose was a kidnapping, why was the body left in the house ?

    The 'Small Foreign Faction' listed in the letter as being behind it all never contacted the RAMSEYS.

    If the purpose for the crime was a sick pedophile who wanted to sexually assault and murder the little girl , then why the pretense of the ransom note ?

    The fact that the ransom note was written on a pad of paper that belonged to the RAMSEYS.

    The alleged ranson amount just happened to match the amount that JOHN RAMSEY received as a bonus that year.

    The whole thing reeks ! I don't believe that the father did it. I have no doubt that the mother wrote the ransom note. I think that either the mother or the brother BURKE committed the crime and that other things were done to the body to throw the police.

  10. #60
    sheri Guest
    Patsy also did pageants herself, but never had the amount of success that her daughter did. So, IMO, when JonBenet started and continued the success she had, Patsy got all jealous and offed her daughter. Sheesh. Whore her daughter around like that? WTF? No one can reasonably expect me to think or believe that ANY child wants to be in pageants. Try more like it's the parents especially the mothers. Damn stage mothers. I know there are plenty of stage parents that aren't bad at all. Just the ones that are the Patsy Ramseys of the industry give the decent ones bad raps. I also think that JonBenet wet the bed issue was because of the enormous stress the poor child was under to do way too well at those damn pageants because if she didn't she knew what her sick fuck of a mother would do to her later. I don't think Burke had anything to do with this, he unfortunately got thrown into the mix to deflect attention from where it truly belongs - on the parents. The mom did it, and the dad is in friggin denial big time. Patsy Ramsey was so hung up on her damn self, it's sickening. She acted like her shit never stunk. Like she had a damn corn cob shoved up her ass...ok I'm gonna start to not make sense now so I will stop this post. Y'all get where I'm going. BED!!!! LMAO!!!

    Rest in Peace, JonBenet....
    Rest in eternal Hell, Patsy, you sick fuck...
    Give it up John, you know everyone knows that you know more than you claim...grow up...

  11. #61
    Irishlass Guest
    I have always thought it was either Burke or Patsy
    Does anyone remember the 911 call..Patsy claimed Burke is still asleep at the time of the 911 but you can hear him in the backround and the fact she put the cloths on that she wore to a formal dinner the night before the next morning, who the hell does that. I never bought her poor me act she had going on.

  12. #62
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    i think it was probably an intruder who made himself familiar with her family. probably some perv who got his jollies watching her perform in the pageants.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    From my rotting body, flowers shall grow and I am in them and that is eternity. ~Edvard Munch

  13. #63
    FloridaDeathHag Guest
    I thought it was one of the parents for years, but then I saw them on a talkshow. I don't think they did it. On the other hand, it takes a pretty gutsy freak to break into a house that big and in that neighborhood on Christmas night. We'll never know. I know everyone blames Patsy, but can you imagine, if she was innocent, having freaks like John Mark Carr contacting you?

  14. #64
    endsleigh03 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Christie Prody View Post
    I thought it was one of the parents for years, but then I saw them on a talkshow. I don't think they did it. On the other hand, it takes a pretty gutsy freak to break into a house that big and in that neighborhood on Christmas night. We'll never know. I know everyone blames Patsy, but can you imagine, if she was innocent, having freaks like John Mark Carr contacting you?
    So, we have OJ's girlfriend among us? Thats interesting.

  15. #65
    FloridaDeathHag Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by endsleigh03 View Post
    So, we have OJ's girlfriend among us? Thats interesting.
    It's just a joke. Don't you love it, though, she's becoming a favorite of mine already. And if she continues to date OJ, who knows, she may make it onto this site.

  16. #66
    Jack-O-Lantern Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by pvezz View Post
    I saw this as well, and I gotta tell you, he had a pretty strong case for the family not being involved, IMO.

    Lay the blame with the imbecile cops. That crime scene was so immediately contaminated that even if they DID charge someone, any defense attorney worth his salt would be able to raise reasonable doubt about how it got there.
    I think it's a given at this point that John & Patsy Ramsey were not involved--they were never indicted (because they weren't guilty) and the moronic Boulder police set their sights on the easiest way out for them: the parents. And, as so often happens when huge, inexcusable mistakes are made by the police (such as horribly tainting/contaminating the crime scene right from the very start), they just couldn't or wouldn't admit their stupid errors and kept at it, as they do...

    All the evidence I've read on this case points squarely to an intruder, and there were MANY suspects, more than one of whom were drifters. As such, there wouldn't have been any further assaults in Boulder proper. It's a tiny little town, run by tiny little brains (at that time anyway), with very few places for a stranger/drifter/killer to hide...so he blew town, fast.

    Did the police follow up on any of those leads? Hell no, they were too busy trying to prove their shaky little small town/small minded case to actually pursue leads which would have taken the big fish out of the small pond...they didn't want that, no way...assholes.

    Hope they're happy, having literally torn a family apart and ruined so many lives, not to mention letting a bloodthirsty child murderer get away scott free. Makes me sick when those given the "public trust" are anything but trustworthy.

  17. #67
    deathybrad Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack-O-Lantern View Post
    I think it's a given at this point that John & Patsy Ramsey were not involved--
    WHOA WHOA WHOA. Who died and made you procecutor? I suppose OJ is innocent too? And Drew Petersen...

  18. #68
    Jack-O-Lantern Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by deathybrad View Post
    WHOA WHOA WHOA. Who died and made you procecutor? I suppose OJ is innocent too? And Drew Petersen...
    Uh, no, dude, just the Ramseys. Nobody's talking about O.J. or (are you talking about Scott?) Peterson.
    O.J. was found guilty of wrongful death in a civil trial...Scott Peterson was found guilty on 2 counts of 1st degree murder in a criminal trial and is now on death row.
    Big difference there. The Ramseys were exonerated by a grand jury. That spells i-n-n-o-c-e-n-t to me. Or am I mistaken that we are all presumed innocent until proven guilty in this country?

  19. #69
    Nowereman Guest
    I know it's a cultural thing down in the south of the USA but, it's totally in bad taste, wft are these people doing dressing little girls up as Dolly Parton look a likes?

  20. #70
    Jack-O-Lantern Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Nowereman View Post
    I know it's a cultural thing down in the south of the USA but, it's totally in bad taste, wft are these people doing dressing little girls up as Dolly Parton look a likes?
    It's not just the southern states in the U.S., children's beauty pageants are HUGE in California and everywhere else too. There are literally thousands of these things, all over the country.
    Check out the film "Little Miss Sunshine." Hilarious.

  21. #71
    Nowereman Guest
    Thats right I have seen that movie,I thought is was funny. Sorry I thought it was predominately the southern states, still think it's off though.

  22. #72
    tngirl1967 Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack-O-Lantern View Post
    It's not just the southern states in the U.S., children's beauty pageants are HUGE in California and everywhere else too. There are literally thousands of these things, all over the country.
    Check out the film "Little Miss Sunshine." Hilarious.

    OMG LOOOOVE that movie.
    Which reminds me, anybody else see that HBO doc on pageant kids and their whacked moms? All these little girls, I mean tiny little girls, being preened and worked silly to get routines down, just horrible, horrible.

  23. #73
    Jack-O-Lantern Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by tngirl1967 View Post
    OMG LOOOOVE that movie.
    Which reminds me, anybody else see that HBO doc on pageant kids and their whacked moms? All these little girls, I mean tiny little girls, being preened and worked silly to get routines down, just horrible, horrible.
    I saw it, pretty crazy stuff! I say if the kids enjoy it and it's not something the mothers are pushing on them, great. If it's a chore or something the child isn't into, or they're way too young to even know what's going on, then definitely not.

    Stage mothers--I know several and they're just crazed, I think they're a completely different species!!

  24. #74
    Kathyf Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by tngirl1967 View Post
    OMG LOOOOVE that movie.
    Which reminds me, anybody else see that HBO doc on pageant kids and their whacked moms? All these little girls, I mean tiny little girls, being preened and worked silly to get routines down, just horrible, horrible.
    I saw that. I don't have a problem with it if they love it. i think a few kids were not to happy.

  25. #75
    Jack-O-Lantern Guest
    Exactly. I just don't get the connection that people draw between this murder and the fact that JonBenet participated in children's beauty pageants. Thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, of children do this kind of thing every day and love every minute of it. It's certainly not for every kid, but I'm sure there are plenty out there who are totally into it!
    I think it was the negative media blitz, that's all we saw was the tiny beauty queen, and for some reason it got twisted up into something that it just wasn't. Personally I don't think that had anything to do with her murder.

  26. #76
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    Read this. I believe in science, not what if's. That psycho bitch killed her daughter.
    http://www.statementanalysis.com/ramseynote/

  27. 12-05-2007, 12:16 AM

  28. #77
    ApricotRoses Guest

    Went to JonBenet's Gravesite today

    Well, I finally went to see JonBenet's grave today. It was a very windy, but sunny day. The first thing that struck me is how SMALL and OLD the cemetary is. But JonBenet's grave is under a beautiful tree with a bench next to it. There were all kinds of angels, etc. hanging from branches of the tree. Also lots of little memorabilia type stuff. Someone had fashioned a cross out of wood and had a teddy bear tied to it.

    I sat on the bench, then I reached down and touched her stone... I asked her who killed her. The wind kicked up bad just then, and it really chilled me in more ways than one!!!!

    I picked a violet that was near her grave. I'm going to preserve it.

    Patsy's grave is right in front of JonBenet's.... but I didn't pay much attention to it... I still think she either did it, or helped cover it up.

    Anyway, will have some pics in a few days. I still can't believe I was sitting there. I have read so much about her, I wish they could SOLVE this case. It's haunting.

  29. #78
    disco Guest
    Well first of all, those baby pagents are sick. In these parts you would be arrested if not just down right siezed upon by responsible parents. My money is on the son, followed by the mother then the father.

  30. #79
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    Don't they have a DNA sample and that's how they ruled out the weird guy from Thailand who claimed he did it? Supposedly, that's how they ruled out the Dad, Mom and Brother. I had always bet on the brother or one of his friends. It seemed like such an amateur murder as murders go, almost like it was an afterthought the cover up the rape. If they truly have DNA, I would think it would be only a matter of time before they catch who did it.

    And yes, all the make-up and seductive clothing for that poor child was really over the top. I have problems when my niece dress like that and they are in their twenties!!! (Okay, I was brought up in a different day and age, I know). Hmmm, maybe it was someone from the Baby Beauty Queen Circuit???

    Wish they would solve it too.
    Any day above ground is a good day.

  31. #80
    Lisamarie Guest
    Another thing that has always bothered me to say the leasy ..my daughter is missing I find a note that says for me to keep this quiet or they are gonna kill her ..sooo I invite all my friends over to the crime scene?? And the cops allow it?? I never understood that? And then the Dad just happens to take a friend and just happens to look in the one place they forgot and guess what?? Finds the ody and then tampers with it ( ripping the tape off) brings her upstairs were all there waiting friends are and puts her under the tree and of course Patys goes ape shit...I mean its her moment after all......I just dont get it at all..I never wnat to believe her own parents had anything to do with it..and I have heard some talk of an intruder but to be honest they made themselves look very shady to me..they did not act right to me at all...the note their actions that day.....not to mention the funeral footage always bothers me ..The way Burk walks out looking like he has better things to do..I mean anyone ever take note f that kid! Did he not know they were burying his little sister??I mean he looked like he could not be bothered at all....and Patsy and that dramatic veil...were the hell you get a veil like that anyway..I always wonder that...what do you like have it in your closet for just such an occasion?? My grievin veill!! Its all fishy to me..the cops screwed up major..the parents could have done nothing wrong at all but their own actions made them shady in my book.....

  32. #81
    ApricotRoses Guest

    Funeral footage??

    Is there a site or a link to the funeral footage? I have only seen a few still shots. Thanks.

  33. #82
    Snoopy Guest
    Oh I agree on all counts LisaMarie..I am curious about that funeral footage myself because I always thought the brother had something to do with her death.

  34. #83
    Deathgoddess Guest
    If Burke did it, it wouldn't be hard to figure out why. He probably hated his sister and all the attention she got. Not only was she the baby, but it looks like their whole life revolved around her. I am sure she was probably hard to live with ; at best.

    I am not accusing him, or saying it was okay, i just can't help but wonder who messed up their family life was. Patsy was obviously a NUT, so i am sure she didn't treat her kids equally. I still say she did it, but Burke is an obvious suspect, because of motive.

    I think an intruder is the most proposterous thing, no one was in that house, it was someone in that family. I look for a deathbed confession from either Burke or John.

  35. #84
    Glamrock Princess Guest
    That poor child....it really saddens me.

  36. #85
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    The whole kiddie beauty pageant thing gives me the creeps, I see it as the sexualization of kids. You would have to expect predators to lurk around things like that.

    I've read and reread this case and I can't make heads or tails of it. I just don't have an opinion as to who did it. It is sad that Patsy died without ever having any closure to the case, yet I always thought her interviews on TV seemed contrived.

    I've seen the autopsy photos and I cannot bring myself to post them on my website, it seems really wrong somehow. Whoever did it killed that little girl over and over. I have to think it was someone who knew her well, and knew that house.
    The most dangerous woman of all is the one who refuses to rely on your sword to save her because she carries her own.

    - R.H. Sin

  37. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by keef View Post
    Hey Morbid - you really wanna listen to 'The Hunt' By New Model Army. You'd bloody like it
    I checked out that song too - is it about a particular case?

    Sepultura's cover of it is right on, as well.
    The most dangerous woman of all is the one who refuses to rely on your sword to save her because she carries her own.

    - R.H. Sin

  38. #87
    Ghoulie Girl Guest
    Agreed-the whole entire story is both sad and scary.

  39. #88
    melmoney Guest
    I don't think John and Paty were involved either.

    They now have a complete DNA profile of the murderer, from DNA taken from underneath JB's fingernails and a pubic hair from her blanket. This DNA does not match anybody in JB's family or the dozens of family friends that have been questioned. They do know that it's a caucasion male, though.

    For what it's worth, I've always thought the Burke theory was ridiculous. He was 9 years old at the time and very scrawny. I don't think he would have the capacity to sedate JB, carry her downstairs, strangle her and deliver a blow to the head. And why would he sexually assault her? It makes no sense.

  40. #89
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    Hey there, my fabulous death hag friends! Don't know why, but I have only been semi-interested in the case, not totally into it like some of you. In other words, I don't have a great deal of background on this subject so I might be talking out of my a$$.

    I went back and re-read all the posts here along with the various linked articles and photos. Listed below are some of my thoughts:

    • The sort of weird, Christian article that was linked mentioned that the color purple symbolizes sacrifice. I am a fairly new Catholic (yes, unbelievable to some, I actually converted to Catholicism in 2001, was formerly a Presbyterian), and I had to take conversion classes (RCIA) prior to my "official" conversion. During these classes, one of the subjects was the symbolism behind the vestment colors. Purple, at least according to the Catholics, symbolizes hope. The symbolism is based on the color of the sky prior to dawn, the start of a new day. I don't think that the color of the Christmas tree decorations had anything at all to do with it.
    • I never heard that JB was tasered. To me this is the key to the case. There's not a great deal of people who carry tasers. In addition, when you purchase a taser, it's not like buying a box of cookies at Wal-Mart. There's paperwork you have to fill out, and there aren't too many stores that even sell tasers. I would go back and find out who bought or carried tasers and would have had a taser in their possession at the time of the crime. Perhaps the murderer was law enforcement, and the police "botched" the crime scene analysis to protect someone?
    • In addition, I would go back and determine who would know or have access to the fact that John made $118,000 recently. There's not too many people who would know this either. Did John have a personal driver who could have overheard a conversation John had on his cell phone regarding this business transaction?
    • The DNA evidence would not only rule out John, Patsy and Burke, but also any other family members. Certain sequences of the DNA would be similar to any blood relatives. So the murderer is not related in any way to the Ramseys themselves.
    • In defense of Patsy and John, who I think had no involvement in the murder itself:
      • I have two sweet little boys, ages 8 and 11, and normally I would hear them fart at 2:00 a.m. However, on the night of Christmas/Morning of December 26th, I am so f-ing exhausted and sleep-deprived from all the festivities, shopping, wrapping, cooking and playing Santa the night before that I would not hear a 747 land in our driveway.
      • If I found my child dead in the basement, I would probably do the same or similar thing that John did. The last thing I would care about at the moment of discovery is preserving the crime scene. I too would probably be acting just like Patsy, cycling between catatonic and hysterical and in desperate need of sedation.
      • I also don't believe that Patsy could have freaked out over JB's bedwetting, nor would I clean the vaginal area vigorously. Unless the child poops, there is no need to vigorously clean anything. When you have small kids, you just deal with it and go back to bed. For example, when my boys were smaller and had this problem, the standard operating procedure is to give them a quick shower while you change the sheets, then put them in clean PJs when they got out of the shower. When I was too exhausted to change the sheets, I would just take the wet bedding off, quickly put a clean sheet on top of the bed, put my nice clean child on top and cover them with a clean blanky. I would then deal with re-making the bed and throwing the linens in the washer the next morning. This entire episode would take five minutes max and no big deal at all. Just a Mom's perspective.
      • I too would have at least called the police even though the ransom note said otherwise. I also might have called close friends to come over and help me deal with the situation. My mind doesn't work right by itself, especially in emotional instances.
      • I also don't think that John's placement of JB's body by the Christmas tree is odd either. In our house, we put the Christmas tree up in the nicest room in our house, which is the living room. All presents go to the recipient's bedrooms or the family room right after they are opened, and the living room is then cleaned up and vacuumed just in case friends or family drop by later. The rest of the house is a total mess, with the family room looking like an explosion at Toys 'R' Us and the kitchen stacked high with dirty dishes from Christmas dinner. The body of my precious child would go to the most clean and loveliest place in the house, which would be right in front of the Christmas tree.
    • Bottom line: I don't think the Ramsey's did it, I think the DNA will eventually solve the case, and I would be looking at someone in law enforcement or who had connections in law enforcement who also had access to a taser. I also believe the murderer was a Christian religious fanatic who could justify what they did by misinterpreting Bible Scripture. Lastly, I don't believe the murderer is well educated, due to the tone of the letter, and also that it wasn't typed or produced via PC and laser printer.

    Again, I am not that familiar with the case and could very well be talking out of my butt. I can hardly wait though for them to catch the animal who did this.
    Any day above ground is a good day.

  41. #90
    Deathgoddess Guest
    Geekygirl, your perspective is that of a sane loving mother, and i really don't think Patsy falls into that category. I think the bedwetting really irked her, and ruined her perfect world, and she made JB pay for it by being mean and rough with her.

    Something about her just wasn't right, in the same way Susan Smith wasn't acting right when she talked about her children being stolen, Patsy's grief just doesn't ring true to me.

  42. #91
    Lisamarie Guest
    See Im not sure who did it..but the fact remains they did not act the way innocent people act...I never thought Burk did it I thought his disintrest in his sisters burial was telling of what perhaps family life was like....also they wrote that note...there is no question about that..the notepad came from their home .one of them wrote it.....why?? Why would innocent peole do that?? I dont think we will ever really know. Maybe your right and we will get a deathbed confession one day.....Im not sure..I do know everyone involved with the case failed this little girl.....

  43. #92
    FloridaDeathHag Guest
    Is it just me, or were there like a gazillion picture of JonBenet and Chandra Levy?? Maybe I just grew up in an odd household, but I've had less pictures taken of me in my whole lifetime than either of these two girls just counting the ones that ended up on tabloid covers. I've seen about 30 distinct on tabloid covers of JonBenet over maybe a year of her life, and like at least 15 of Chandra covering the same time period. Do normal people takes photos of themselves like this? I don't/didn't at those ages.

  44. #93
    Jack-O-Lantern Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by geekygirl View Post
    Hey there, my fabulous death hag friends! Don't know why, but I have only been semi-interested in the case, not totally into it like some of you. In other words, I don't have a great deal of background on this subject so I might be talking out of my a$$.

    I went back and re-read all the posts here along with the various linked articles and photos. Listed below are some of my thoughts:
    • The sort of weird, Christian article that was linked mentioned that the color purple symbolizes sacrifice. I am a fairly new Catholic (yes, unbelievable to some, I actually converted to Catholicism in 2001, was formerly a Presbyterian), and I had to take conversion classes (RCIA) prior to my "official" conversion. During these classes, one of the subjects was the symbolism behind the vestment colors. Purple, at least according to the Catholics, symbolizes hope. The symbolism is based on the color of the sky prior to dawn, the start of a new day. I don't think that the color of the Christmas tree decorations had anything at all to do with it.
    • I never heard that JB was tasered. To me this is the key to the case. There's not a great deal of people who carry tasers. In addition, when you purchase a taser, it's not like buying a box of cookies at Wal-Mart. There's paperwork you have to fill out, and there aren't too many stores that even sell tasers. I would go back and find out who bought or carried tasers and would have had a taser in their possession at the time of the crime. Perhaps the murderer was law enforcement, and the police "botched" the crime scene analysis to protect someone?
    • In addition, I would go back and determine who would know or have access to the fact that John made $118,000 recently. There's not too many people who would know this either. Did John have a personal driver who could have overheard a conversation John had on his cell phone regarding this business transaction?
    • The DNA evidence would not only rule out John, Patsy and Burke, but also any other family members. Certain sequences of the DNA would be similar to any blood relatives. So the murderer is not related in any way to the Ramseys themselves.
    • In defense of Patsy and John, who I think had no involvement in the murder itself:
      • I have two sweet little boys, ages 8 and 11, and normally I would hear them fart at 2:00 a.m. However, on the night of Christmas/Morning of December 26th, I am so f-ing exhausted and sleep-deprived from all the festivities, shopping, wrapping, cooking and playing Santa the night before that I would not hear a 747 land in our driveway.
      • If I found my child dead in the basement, I would probably do the same or similar thing that John did. The last thing I would care about at the moment of discovery is preserving the crime scene. I too would probably be acting just like Patsy, cycling between catatonic and hysterical and in desperate need of sedation.
      • I also don't believe that Patsy could have freaked out over JB's bedwetting, nor would I clean the vaginal area vigorously. Unless the child poops, there is no need to vigorously clean anything. When you have small kids, you just deal with it and go back to bed. For example, when my boys were smaller and had this problem, the standard operating procedure is to give them a quick shower while you change the sheets, then put them in clean PJs when they got out of the shower. When I was too exhausted to change the sheets, I would just take the wet bedding off, quickly put a clean sheet on top of the bed, put my nice clean child on top and cover them with a clean blanky. I would then deal with re-making the bed and throwing the linens in the washer the next morning. This entire episode would take five minutes max and no big deal at all. Just a Mom's perspective.
      • I too would have at least called the police even though the ransom note said otherwise. I also might have called close friends to come over and help me deal with the situation. My mind doesn't work right by itself, especially in emotional instances.
      • I also don't think that John's placement of JB's body by the Christmas tree is odd either. In our house, we put the Christmas tree up in the nicest room in our house, which is the living room. All presents go to the recipient's bedrooms or the family room right after they are opened, and the living room is then cleaned up and vacuumed just in case friends or family drop by later. The rest of the house is a total mess, with the family room looking like an explosion at Toys 'R' Us and the kitchen stacked high with dirty dishes from Christmas dinner. The body of my precious child would go to the most clean and loveliest place in the house, which would be right in front of the Christmas tree.
    • Bottom line: I don't think the Ramsey's did it, I think the DNA will eventually solve the case, and I would be looking at someone in law enforcement or who had connections in law enforcement who also had access to a taser. I also believe the murderer was a Christian religious fanatic who could justify what they did by misinterpreting Bible Scripture. Lastly, I don't believe the murderer is well educated, due to the tone of the letter, and also that it wasn't typed or produced via PC and laser printer.
    Again, I am not that familiar with the case and could very well be talking out of my butt. I can hardly wait though for them to catch the animal who did this.
    BINGO, GG. You're not talking out of your butt, everything you say here is right on the money. Patsy Ramsey was not a 'nut,' and to think that she punished or beat or otherwise abused her daughter for something as everyday and normal as bedwetting is absolutely preposterous. Also to accuse their son Burke of murder is ridiculous. This was a police cover-up, plain and simple.
    The murderer worked in or around the Boulder police dept.

  45. #94
    Hag1 Guest
    The first time I saw Patsy, I got bad vibes. I didn't get this from the father. I don't know if she did it, but I just had a great dislike for her and every interview she got more distasteful to me. I certainly had no grief when she died, and I think the secret died with her.

  46. #95
    hotmama Guest
    i believe a family member did it. the crime scene was botched. people had money. money talks and bullshit walks. they say the child had signs of being sexually violated in the past. how did an intruder get in the home?? with all the dough they had where was the alarm system. someone close did this and i believe the fam knew who it was. maybe mom or dad or even her other family members. every family has a pedophile. believe it or not. i believe there were other blood relatives in the home at the time and no one fessed up. the case will never be solved. a deathbed confession may take place 50 or 60 years from now.

  47. #96
    Jack-O-Lantern Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by hotmama View Post
    i believe a family member did it. the crime scene was botched. people had money. money talks and bullshit walks. they say the child had signs of being sexually violated in the past. how did an intruder get in the home?? with all the dough they had where was the alarm system. someone close did this and i believe the fam knew who it was. maybe mom or dad or even her other family members. every family has a pedophile. believe it or not. i believe there were other blood relatives in the home at the time and no one fessed up. the case will never be solved. a deathbed confession may take place 50 or 60 years from now.
    JonBenet had never been sexually molested previously, the family doctor attested to this at the Grand Jury hearing, and her medical records verified that fact.

  48. #97
    KarmaKat Guest
    Ok correct me if I'm wrong but if she was molested with a broken paint brush, then what good or reason would there be for the DNA of a pubic hair on the blanket. So an intruder dropped his pants on her blanket then used the paint brush? Um why? Along with the hair did they find any liquid type substance? This dosent add up to me.
    I think poor Burke does know more than he was let on in the past. He was probably so screwed up by his mother and so happy to finally be getting a little bit of attention from her ("Oh Burke we will all be together and happy if you dont say anything", "We love you Burke for keeping our secret", "If you say anything it will be your fault the family will be seperated" etc) that he decided to keep quiet. He qenuinely likes his father so hence why he never said anything when Patsy died. As soo as John has passed on Burke will come clean with some information. Whether it be case solving (Mum did it) or not (I did here and see someone in the house the night) is still to be seen.

  49. #98
    ApricotRoses Guest
    Here's my take, my opinion only... after reading many books on JonBenet. It was Xmas, the family has been at a party. It was late, they are all tired and probably irritable. They had plans to fly out of Colorado the next day. Everyone is getting ready for bed.

    Patsy discovers that JonBenet has wet her bed AGAIN. She flys into a rage. She's sick of it. Her little beauty queen princess WILL NOT WET HER BED. She drags her into the bathroom and either pushes her or throws her... JonBenet's head hits either the toilet or tub, hence the cracked skull.

    Patsy realizes what she has done. The cover=up begins, I'm sure with the help of John. He loves Patsy, he knows she's got cancer and is sick. It takes a long time for their elaborate attempt at a kidnapping plan. Hence, Patsy is still in full makeup and the same clothes when the police arrive, normally, she would NEVER be seen this way. The same notepad that Patsy uses has the ransom note. The exact amount of John's bonus. Burke heard in the background on the 911 tape. John taking his next door neighbor and going DIRECTLY to the basement where her body is.

    As for Patsy, They NEVER did rule out her handwriting after many attempts......I really don't think she MEANT to kill her daughter, but I DO think she was responsible. I think she was a mental case in many ways. She ignored Burke in favor of JonBenet. Maybe someday we'll know the truth. But, I'm not gonna hold my breath.

  50. #99
    Jack-O-Lantern Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by KarmaKat View Post
    Ok correct me if I'm wrong but if she was molested with a broken paint brush, then what good or reason would there be for the DNA of a pubic hair on the blanket. So an intruder dropped his pants on her blanket then used the paint brush? Um why? Along with the hair did they find any liquid type substance? This dosent add up to me.
    1) DNA was found in hair AND semen samples taken from the child's underwear...neither sample matched the family or anyone else they knew.

    2) All family members passed multiple lie detector tests, administered by the police/DA and privately.

    3) A grand jury cleared all family members of having any involvement and/or knowledge of the crime or perpetrator(s).

    4) Handwriting analysis of the ransom note estimated a less than 1 in 100,000 chance that the writing was that of Patsy Ramsey.

    5) Palm prints found on the door leading to the murder room were not those of the family, nor did they match anyone else the family knew.

    6) Boot prints in the basement found below a broken window and outside the home did not match shoes owned by anyone in the family or anyone else the family knew.

    7) A stun gun was used. No one in the family owned a stun gun, nor did anyone else they knew.

    8) Neither Burke nor JonBenet were ever abused in any way, nor was John Ramsey's older daughter by a previous marriage, who had earlier been killed in a car accident. This was a happy family, folks--no hitting, no screaming, no signs, ever, of anything untoward or suspicious involving the family or their close friends.

    It has been proven, over and over, by numerous sources and investigations both public and private (including FBI involvement), that the Ramseys were not involved in the murder of their daughter, nor did they have any knowledge of the identity of the perpetrator.

    So---why the insistence on blaming people who were cleared of any involvement over a decade ago? Why the unreasonable hatred of that family--because they were wealthy or because of JonBenet's involvement in the world of child beauty pageants (as, by the way, her mother was as a young girl before her)?

    C'mon now. Maybe that's not everyone's cup of tea but it most certainly does not make her parents evil child-killers. THAT doesn't make sense--in fact it seems outright ridiculous to me--and the argument just doesn't wash with the facts.

    Everyone certainly has a right to their own opinion, but isn't it more responsible to base those opinions on facts--and only the facts--rather than speculation, supposition and screaming Enquirer headlines?

    Erroneous information, i.e., someone stating that JonBenet had been previously molested, is just not right--she was not. And that's a fact.

  51. #100
    KarmaKat Guest
    In a case where the police involvement was obviously botched. Can alot of so called factual evidence really have 100% accuracy? I mean I am not putting the blame for this tragedy on anyone and definately not looking for an argument over it, but can we really expect all the evidence to be correct when the police did a half pie job? This post is IMO

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